Ranting on Viz Media

Topic started by Dream on Aug. 17, 2010. Last post by Dream 4 years ago.
Post by Dream (7,410 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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Some of you may like Viz for their nice number of manga titles and their shounen anime franchises. But when it comes to other parts of their anime side, things are a bit shady with their treatment of a majority of the titles they license which aren't shounen franchises. Dig this nice little video I made where I offer up some issues (and some funny printed text) concerning Viz's policies with their anime division and where I might be dealing with controversy depending on how folks take it.
 
 
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
4kids is the best. Al Kahn is great, his original plots are the best. 4Kids will edit real life and replace everyone's voice with Jason Griffith's, and censor what they say so that only Kahn pre approved phrases can be uttered, this will be called "The contemplation of Man via the human Kahnstrumentality project" (I am NOT being sarcastic) 
 
 
On Viz, I am not a big fan. I have issues with the way they translate Dragonball, which I will now share: 
 
1) Majin Buu is called Djinn Boo, now equating Djinn with Majin may not be a terrible purely linguistic way of translating (just ignores the Ma-demon Japanese character), but there are freaking M's right on Buu, and every thing else associated with him. It should be clear its "Majin" 
 
2) Vegeto is called "Veggerot". Now this comes from combining "Kakarot" and "Vegeta" which is the correct way of getting the name (Vegeto is got from combining Vegeta with Kakaroto) and since Viz uses Kakarot instead of Kakaroto, this is understandable. However it is also stupid, the name just fails, Vegerot WTF. Even Funi's version of his name vegito (not sure where in the hell the "i" came from) is more tolerable. They should just keep Kakarot as Kakaroto then.
 
3) Refer to Eastern Kaioshin as "Lord of Lords", but then interchange this with the Japanese name Kaioshin. In one panel Piccolo will call him Lord of Lords, in the next Babidi (in viz called Bobidi) calls him Kaioshin, and they keep interchanging his name. As far as actual translation Kaio-is Lord of Worlds, Shin can be new (Shin Kikoho-New or Neo Spirit Cultivating Canon, Shin Seiki Evangelion-New Century Evangelion) but in this sense  best I can tell the term shin literally is written as "advance". Funni translates this to Supreme Kai. Personally I don't know how I would accurately put it in English (the best would be to leave it as the Jap name) Kaio dai is clearly Great Kai, or Grand Kai as Funni translates it, I would personally translate Kaioshin as "highest Kai" and Dai Kaioshin as "Great Highest Kai" 
 
4) Pui Pui is Pocus, Im not sure why. 
 
5) Babidi is Bobidi and Buu is Boo. This was done to keep more closely with the rhyme Bibidi, Bobidi, Boo. 
 
From Evangelion- they refer to the Lance of Longinus as the Spear of Longinus, that is stupid.  
 
Then they just completely butcher titles like Detective Conan. 
 
PS Funimation is still worse, I hate them.
Post by ShadowKnight508 (5,319 posts) See mini bio Level 19
Moderator
I don't mind Viz Media or the stuff they release (I own their Rosario + Vampire manga series as well as my subscription to Shonen Jump), but I have heard of what they do to some of the stuff that they release from FoxxFireArt and others that is raising some concerns from me about what they change certain things in some of their products. Since I have only read a few of the manga titles pushed by Viz, I can't fully comment on the issue, but it does worry me that they would do this.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,640 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
While I always enjoy hearing more people rail against the demon seed that is VIZ. I have a certain issue with my hearing. My hearing is rather sensitive to certain tones. Off key singing actually causes me pain. Listening to the absolutely ghastly audio on this has actually made me feel nauseous. I was rather happen when the audio cut out completely at the four minute mark.
 
You DESPERATELY need to redo your audio.
 
Also, how about adding in commentary on how they censor mangas and offer no alternative? How the removed the word "God" form the One Piece Sky Piea arc completely in the manga, and replaced it with "Kami", they changed Rock Lee's Drunken Fist with Loopy Fist, and changed Gin and Vodka from the Detective Conan series to Melkior and Kaspar. They offer no alternative to this censorship.
 
@ShadowKnight508:
Censorship is a horrible thing that should not be supported.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@FoxxFireArt said:
 "God" form the One Piece Sky Piea arc completely in the manga, and replaced it with "Kami", 
In that instance they chose to keep the original Japanese term, as Kami directly translates to god.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,640 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@hitsusatsu11: 
No, they didn't. Eneru was literally called in the Japanese version, "Goddo Eneru". VIZ took what was being said in English in the Japanese publication, and changed it to Japanese for the English publication. All due to religious oversensitivity. That still counts as censorship.
 
VIZ is notorious for removing Japanese phrases and replacing them for English. Such as calling the Shichibukai the "Seven Warlords of the Sea". Suddenly, they keep the Japanese word of Kami in this entire arc and never use the word God. the only explainatioin is due to a religious sensativity censorship.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@FoxxFireArt: Thats true, I knew in the anime he was referred that way (Goddo Eneru) but I would have thought in the original Japanese manga they would use the Japanese characters for "Kami" and that Viz just left in it. But if it is how you say then it is stupid. Same deal with their translation of "Kaioshin".
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,640 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@hitsusatsu11: 
Still, they are a publisher that constantly removes Japanese phrasing to replaces it with English. Though on this one and only part of the story they kept the Japanese word Kami, and even called Eneru, "Kami Eneru". that isn't what he was called in the Japanese version.
 
The only purpose of this kind of chance would be due to a religious oversensitivity issue. They believed that using the word God might offend someone. Much in the same way how the removed Rock Lee's Drunken Fist and replaced it with Loopy. They felt someone would be offended he was drunk. So, they changed it to Loopy.
 
It's the same intent and that makes it censorship. This is even worse, because they are using religion in their censorship. Don't you find it odd how Gin and Vodka from the Japanese version was replaces with Melkior and Kaspar, two of the three wise men from the Bible?
 
People have always said that VIZ can't use the Japanese words, because English readers wont know what they mean. The way in Naruto manga all the senseis are replaces with "master" and Jutsu is replaced with "art of". Well, how is an English reader suppose to know what a Kami is?
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@FoxxFireArt said:

It's the same intent and that makes it censorship. This is even worse, because they are using religion in their censorship. Don't you find it odd how Gin and Vodka from the Japanese version was replaces with Melkior and Kaspar, two of the three wise men from the Bible?
 
I have no idea why in the world Viz chose to insert those names, maybe they were drunk at the time?
 
 Much in the same way how the removed Rock Lee's Drunken Fist and replaced it with Loopy. They felt someone would be offended he was drunk. So, they changed it to Loopy.

I know this is stupid, it was similar with Roshi's drunken fist. I would translate it as "Drunken Fist" or leave it as Sui Ken. (Ive seen both in fan scans) Using the word "loopy" is stupid and wrong. 
  
 Well, how is an English reader suppose to know what a Kami is? "
In the instance of Kami as a name in addition to a title, like Kami from DB, then I could go either way. I've seen fan scans where he is called Kami, and some where he is called and referred to as God. Since it is almost like his proper name I do not mind. However when the word is just used to describe someone or put in a sentence, it should be translated as God. I wouldn't except to read a sentence where say Light or Pain say they will become the "kami" of a new world. In that case I would prefer it read "God". 
 

 that constantly removes Japanese phrasing to replaces it with English. Though on this one and only part of the story they kept the Japanese word  
 
They do this a lot, as I have already mentioned they call the Eastern Kaioshin "Lord of Lords, but then on some panels call him by his Japanese name, Kaioshin. 
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,640 posts) See mini bio Level 25
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@hitsusatsu11: 
But what do you think could of been the cause of removing the word "God" from this arc? It's four full volumes of edits. The only purpose could of been due to a religious context. The only reason could of been that they felt God wasn't appropriate. So, they changed it with something they could dance around.
 
That still counts as censorship. They censored four volumes of the manga, and refuse to publish it the way it was actually intended. This isn't a "Lord or Lords" issue. How is it an English audience isn't going to understand the word "God"?
 
There is no if-ands-or-buts about it. The manga was censored due to a religious matter.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@FoxxFireArt said:

" @hitsusatsu11:  But what do you think could of been the cause of removing the word "God" from this arc? It's four full volumes of edits. The only purpose could of been due to a religious context. The only reason could of been that they felt God wasn't appropriate. So, they changed it with something they could dance around.  That still counts as censorship. 

Ok, I didn't say I dispute this 

 This isn't a "Lord or Lords" issue. 

I'm not sure what you mean by this, I used the Kaioshin instance to show Viz often is selective with when they use the English or Japanese terms interchangeably. I'm saying it's bad, Im not trying to defend them. 
 

 The manga was censored due to a religious matter. "


 
Ok. I guess the principle of the thing bugs you. To me using Kami instead of God is not that big of deal(Viz uses God in Dragon Ball), using something like Djinn Boo instead of Majin Buu or what they do with Detective Conan is far worse.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,640 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@hitsusatsu11: 
True, if it was this one thing. It wouldn't that that serious, but it's a part of a trend from VIZ Media. If they are willing to change this, what else are they going to change that they find offensive? They found Drunken Fist offensive. So, they changed it to Loopy. They felt God was offensive. So, they changed it to Kami.
 
The intent of VIZ isn't to be accurate. It's to censor.
Post by sotyfan16 (1,341 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@FoxxFireArt:
Thank you for being the only one to point out how badly the video played. If things are to be censored then we should blame the FCC! Down with "The Man"! Fight the power! I really don't think much of anything should be censored. I always say that life is X-rated and there is no censor for it, so why should there be for anything else?
Post by sickVisionz (4,254 posts) See mini bio Level 24
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@hitsusatsu11: Those seem like the most minor and irrelevant of things.  If stuff like changing Buu to Boo is an example of the atrocities they commit, then they seem pretty mild at worst. 
 
I don't have any real issue with Viz, but that's probably because when I buy anime/manga I've already read it or seen it and outside of Naruto and Bleach (I buy the uncut boxes so most of the complaints about their anime never reach me), I'm not going to watch it or read it again.  I just buy it because I like it and I want to support the people who made it.  I suppose I've never really had a chance to see how badly they edit things. 
 
I did read D. Gray-Man from them and nothing seemed as series breaking as you guys make things out to be.  I've seen their Bleach translations on Crunchyroll and yeah, they spell things differently than the fansubbers did and sometimes use a different word, but for me it was just, "oh, that's how they translated it" and not, "Damn them to hell!!!!  They're censoring me; give me liberty or give me death!"
Post by Dream (7,410 posts) See mini bio Level 20
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@FoxxFireArt:  I'm more of a anime collector than a manga collector which is why I never addressed Viz's manga end as I'm not as familiar with it, though I have heard of their manga end also receiving a great amount of criticism.
 
As for audio, WELL EXCUSE ME FOR NOT HAVING THE BEST VOICE, TIME AND EQUIPMENT IN THE WORLD!! There's only so much that I can do considering how natural my voice is and the limitations of time and resources that I have on me. I'm not a freakin' professional at this.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,640 posts) See mini bio Level 25
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@sickVisionz: 
They do edit drastically and in ways that change the events. I can even point to instances where VIZ's translations are just flat out wrong. For the Detective Conan series. I don't blame them for changing the title to Case Closed. Changing the title doesn't change what the story is. Though, they took the entire Japanese cast of the series, and changed them all to European. None of the heroes are even Japanese anymore.
I wrote a blog post awhile back where I explained in detail how the use of the changed names is actually going to make it impossible to properly translate one of the cases in Detective Conan, because the casts Japanese names are used in the solution of a case. HERE
 
The changed the names of the two major villains from "Gin and Vodka" to Melkior and Kaspar. There is no logic to that. The whole theme of the Black Organization is that they are all code named after liquors. In the VIZ version, that's not true. The author wanted them to be named after liquors, but it was VIZ that changed that.
VIZ also changed Rock Lee's Drunken Fist to Loopy Fist. That was absolutely childish. That sounds like something 4Kids would do.
 
VIZ changed God Eneru to Kami Eneru. I know, for the most part that isn't incredibly drastic. Not as much as many of their other alteration, but this was censorship based on religious values. VIZ should not be mixing their religious believes in with the translation of the series.

My biggest issue with them isn't so much the edits and alterations. They refuse to offer an alternative to these alterations. If you read series such as Negima!, published by Del Rey. I have almost never seen any change from the way I remember reading the series in fansubs. Del Rey is an incredible publisher that is dedicated to an authentic translation.

To support VIZ is to support censorship. Scanlations are often far more authentic to the actual story the author is creating.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@sickVisionz said:

" @hitsusatsu11: Those seem like the most minor and irrelevant of things.  If stuff like changing Buu to Boo is an example of the atrocities they commit, then they seem pretty mild at worst.    

I prefer to see my favorite manga characters with their original names. Djinn Boo instead of Majin Buu is retarded, so is Vegerot instead of Vegeto. 
 

d, but for me it was just, "oh, that's how they translated it" and not, "Damn them to hell!!!!  

But sometimes the translations are just plain inexcusably wrong, why would anyone want to support a company that does that to their favorite anime titles?
Post by sickVisionz (4,254 posts) See mini bio Level 24
Moderator
@hitsusatsu11 said:
" But sometimes the translations are just plain inexcusably wrong, why would anyone want to support a company that does that to their favorite anime titles? "
I do it because Buu to Boo doesn't even register in my mind and even if it did, Buu to Boo isn't enough to make me not want to support my favorite anime titles.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@sickVisionz: "Majin Buu" to "Djinn Boo" Its not the "Boo" part I have issues with. 
Post by ShadowKnight508 (5,319 posts) See mini bio Level 19
Moderator
@FoxxFireArt said:
" @ShadowKnight508: Censorship is a horrible thing that should not be supported. "

I do not support Viz Media much any more (Especially after you pointed out what they "modify" their products and offer no other alternative versions to read...to me that is stupid for them to do that). My subscription to Shonen Jump still has 8 months to go (I subscribed to it in order to read the Bleach manga as well as the One Piece manga without having to shell out a small fortune in order to buy all of the volumes of each series for I can't afford it on my budget), I do own 20 episodes of Bleach (Ep.1-20) on my PS3 via the PS Store, and Viz (unfortunately) is the only publisher publishing the Rosario + Vampire manga, so I had no choice. 
 
I would rather support the anime industry in general by buying the R+V manga (even if it was published by Viz) than looking at it online for free and not support the industry.
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