Shonen Jump Celebrates Its 100th Issue

Topic started by No_name_here on March 3, 2011. Last post by AgentJ 3 years, 9 months ago.
Post by ZombiePie (861 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@Destinyheroknight:  EXACTLY THE HOLLYWOOD VALUES ARE EVERYWHERE!
 
Take is a list that I pulled from the blessed site Conservapedia on the liberal values video games are teaching our youth:

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,389 posts) See mini bio Level 21
@zombiepie said:

" @Destinyheroknight:  EXACTLY THE HOLLYWOOD VALUES ARE EVERYWHERE!
 
Take is a list that I pulled from the blessed site Conservapedia on the liberal values video games are teaching our youth:

"
Teaching what? 
The parents should teach them the games are not real and also most of the game you list are for 17+. Why would they be playing the game in the first place?
If the parents know how to look after there kids, instead of crying about how video games are we probably be a lot better    
Post by AgentJ (1,545 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@zombiepie said:
" @Destinyheroknight:  EXACTLY THE HOLLYWOOD VALUES ARE EVERYWHERE!
 
Take is a list that I pulled from the blessed site Conservapedia on the liberal values video games are teaching our youth:

"
I would love to see what parts some of these games piss them off. Like for God of War: Do liberals have a trademark on deceit or something? Is "Hollywood values" a euphemism for homosexuality? Starcraft II is PRO ISLAM? 
 Seriously, if I didn't play video games, this list would give me the wrong idea in a big way. 
Post by ZombiePie (861 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@AgentJ:  Conservapedia is educating the world of the Hollywood values that video games are instilling in our youth! Think of how our blessed language has been secularized! 






WE MUST PROTECT CHRISTENDOM!
Post by takashichea (14,478 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@zombiepie: 
I don't like pc? (politically correct words) I always thought you were an accountant, but whatever.  To hell with the American language for its confusing words.

Purpose of Censorships
Media and books play it safe to avoid religious preferences and offending people. For example, the Olympic logo that offended the Muslims.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,649 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@AgentJ: 
So, because Yen Press and Del Rey are superb translators you try and diminish them for what they publish. Huh, I had no idea Haruhi- Chan, Azumanga Daioh, and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei were about fanservice or extreme violence. Oh, that's right! They aren't. Even Tokyo Pop does a better job than VIZ. They are the only dinosaur who keeps holding on to censorship.
 
It doesn't matter if they offer an unchanged version in the manga volume of a single series if in 9 others they only release the censored version.  VIZ can not sit there and complain about people using scanlations when they are knowingly altering stories to remove anything. VIZ will never really show progress until they stop altering works or offer an alternative.
 
In Naruto, they kept the scene of Shikamaru smoking the cigarette and doing all the motions, but they completely painted out the both the cigarette and the lighter. So, he's making the motions of lighting something with absolutely nothing in his hand. That is beyond idiotic. This wasn't years ago, it was only a few months, and they will never release it the way it was intended to be seen. The same way with Rock Lee. He was changed from a master of the Drunken Fist to the "Potion Punch". That sounds like a Kool-Aid flavor. Once they publish these changes, they will never reverse it.

News flash, that isn't a Swastika. That's the first kanji in the word for "Bankai". The Nazi swastika spins the other direction. Though someone at VIZ probably would make that same assumption... and be wrong.
Post by ZombiePie (861 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@takashichea:  Wow you remember me saying that I use to be an accountant? That's impressive. I don't exactly talk about being a Notary Public anymore. 
 
Let me just say that it isn't that great of a job.
 
@FoxxFireArt:   
Post by ZombiePie (861 posts) See mini bio Level 15
@FoxxFireArt:  I don't think you realize how much political and social clout that various parent councils and the Anti-Defamation League have in the United States. It doesn't matter that the context of that symbol has nothing to do with Nazism. In Germany if it remotely looks like a swastika that work is prevented from being released completely. In the United States you would have the Parents Television Council and (again) the Anti-Defamation League petitioning the FCC for fines and censorship.
 
That and you forget about capitalism. They bought the rights. Censorship is their prerogative. Don't make me go all Milton Friedman on your ass.
Post by AgentJ (1,545 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@FoxxFireArt said:
" @AgentJ: 
So, because Yen Press and Del Rey are superb translators you try and diminish them for what they publish. Huh, I had no idea Haruhi- Chan, Azumanga Daioh, and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei were about fanservice or extreme violence. Oh, that's right! They aren't. Even Tokyo Pop does a better job than VIZ. They are the only dinosaur who keeps holding on to censorship.
 
It doesn't matter if they offer an unchanged version in the manga volume of a single series if in 9 others they only release the censored version.  VIZ can not sit there and complain about people using scanlations when they are knowingly altering stories to remove anything. VIZ will never really show progress until they stop altering works or offer an alternative.
 
In Naruto, they kept the scene of Shikamaru smoking the cigarette and doing all the motions, but they completely painted out the both the cigarette and the lighter. So, he's making the motions of lighting something with absolutely nothing in his hand. That is beyond idiotic. This wasn't years ago, it was only a few months, and they will never release it the way it was intended to be seen. The same way with Rock Lee. He was changed from a master of the Drunken Fist to the "Potion Punch". That sounds like a Kool-Aid flavor. Once they publish these changes, they will never reverse it.

News flash, that isn't a Swastika. That's the first kanji in the word for "Bankai". The Nazi swastika spins the other direction. Though someone at VIZ probably would make that same assumption... and be wrong. "
Yeah, you missed the point completely.  
Yen Press and Del Ray are fantastic. The difference is that they've been fantastic from day one. Thus, they haven't had any progress. They haven't had to progress. They started at 9/10 and are still at 9/10. 
If VIZ started at a 5, they're at a 6 or 7 now. That is progress.  
The whole series will be published uncensored by VIZ, unlike the previous publisher of the series. 
You don't have to tell me about the edits they've made. I know about them. They don't surprise me; a series like Naruto is getting out to thousands of american children under the age of ten. Its a lawsuit waiting to happen. Doesn't mean I condone it, but I understand it.  
The reason why I put the word "swastika" in quotations is because I know its not a swastika. They would still have balls to put it in. Again, lawsuit waiting to happen. Telling some american pseudo-parent that its not a swastika isn't going to stop CNN from reporting that Japanese comics are trying to turn your children into Hitler. 
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,649 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@zombiepie: 
If they react to a symbol that's part of another language and not a Nazi symbol, then they are a bunch of idiots that don't know their right from the left.
 
Since it's not a Nazi symbol there shouldn't be a problem. If they think it's one. They're wrong. This symbol has existed in the Japanese language long before the 1940s. 
 
What are they going to do, go to Buddhist shrines and chip the symbols off all the temples and Buddha statues just because it looks like something?
 
Censorship is evil and not progressive. Progressive means moving forward. Censorship is all about holding back. No matter if they bought the rights. They don't want people to use scanlations. Scanlations are the only people offering the story in English in the proper way. VIZ releases the anime versions in both censored and uncensored forms. If they can do it for the anime. The can do it for the manga. They just choose not to. So, people should just choose not to support them.
Post by AgentJ (1,545 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@FoxxFireArt said:
" @zombiepie: 
If they react to a symbol that's part of another language and not a Nazi symbol, then they are a bunch of idiots that don't know their right from the left.
 
Since it's not a Nazi symbol there shouldn't be a problem. If they think it's one. They're wrong. This symbol has existed in the Japanese language long before the 1940s. 
 
What are they going to do, go to Buddhist shrines and chip the symbols off all the temples and Buddha statues just because it looks like something?
 
Censorship is evil and not progressive. Progressive means moving forward. Censorship is all about holding back. No matter if they bought the rights. They don't want people to use scanlations. Scanlations are the only people offering the story in English in the proper way. VIZ releases the anime versions in both censored and uncensored forms. If they can do it for the anime. The can do it for the manga. They just choose not to. So, people should just choose not to support them. "
They ARE idiots who don't know left from right, but they also tend to win these kind of fights. Japan has no reason to worry since they know the difference, but the Manji might as well not exist in the US, where the shape only brings up one of the worst regimes in the history of the world. You seem to live in some fairy tail dream land without complications, where there's always a right answer for everything. They have a responsibility to protect the job security of their own employees, do they not? Any company that releases something as popular as Naruto would be forced to make edits. Its a fact. Del Ray would. Yen Press would. Its too big. 
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,649 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@AgentJ: 
I have the perfect example for how much they haven't progressed. Back when VIZ first started publishing Dragon Ball. They were heavily censoring the series. Eventually, they were pressured to start publishing the series both censored and uncensored. Guess which sold better? They didn't learn from that lesson and did the same thing with Naruto. They haven't made progress. They're doing what they did years ago, only this time not offering an alternative to those who want it. They're going backwards. That's the opposite of progress.
 
They choose to do these things, and they don't want to explain themselves to anyone. The only people who have the opportunity to actually ask the people at VIZ why they make these changes do nothing but sing their praises. They lick their heels and call it ice cream. You don't have to be rude, but someone could ask them why they do it and why people shouldn't use scanlations when it's the only source for the real story in English.
 
VIZ releases the anime in cut and uncut forms. If they know people want it for the anime that's packed with fillers, why not the manga? They are already republishing manga with their VIZ Big selection. It's publishing the same thing twice. So, why not produce an uncensored version?
Post by AgentJ (1,545 posts) See mini bio Level 13
@FoxxFireArt said:
" @AgentJ: 
I have the perfect example for how much they haven't progressed. Back when VIZ first started publishing Dragon Ball. They were heavily censoring the series. Eventually, they were pressured to start publishing the series both censored and uncensored. Guess which sold better? They didn't learn from that lesson and did the same thing with Naruto. They haven't made progress. They're doing what they did years ago, only this time not offering an alternative to those who want it. They're going backwards. That's the opposite of progress.
 
They choose to do these things, and they don't want to explain themselves to anyone. The only people who have the opportunity to actually ask the people at VIZ why they make these changes do nothing but sing their praises. They lick their heels and call it ice cream. You don't have to be rude, but someone could ask them why they do it and why people shouldn't use scanlations when it's the only source for the real story in English.
 
VIZ releases the anime in cut and uncut forms. If they know people want it for the anime that's packed with fillers, why not the manga? They are already republishing manga with their VIZ Big selection. It's publishing the same thing twice. So, why not produce an uncensored version? "
There are few series out there that will sell as well as Dragon Ball. For the average manga, say, I's, or Eyeshield, they're barely scraping by as is, so to release two different versions of the same manga with what are usually minor changes (One Piece, some others not included) would simply be a waste of money. Theoretically, those lesser-read series are the ones that should be uncensored, but its a fact in most industries that catering to the mainstream is where most of the money is to be had.  
 
Look at the success of the Wii and the subsequent competition with the Kinect and Move, or with sports marketing. Teams and leagues fight tooth and nail to get a bit of that casual crowd, because there are far more people who "like" soccer than who "love" MLS. Rinse and repeat with any league. So while you and I would love to see Viz cater specifically to us, they're actually making money, so its not going to happen. 

I don't doubt that the uncensored versions of Dragon Ball sold better (they started not long before Shonen Jump came stateside and exposed the american audience to the print version) but I would be interested to see how MUCH better they sold, as well as whether those numbers include the BIG versions. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasn't a lot to edit beyond the first few volumes, which was all Goku's balls and Bulma's boobs, right?  
 
I think something thats being missed in all of this is that in theory, I'm coming from the same place you are. As someone with a journalism background, I abhor censorship (not to mention the stuff going on in the middle-east right now). That said, I'm also a realist, and that same background has shown me that sometimes, you've got to work with what you're given. This industry is very weak right now, and if we want to keep it alive, sometimes that means paying 400 dollars for a Kara no Kyoukai Boxset that cracks as soon as you open it, or buying Manga with awful covers instead of the types they get in Japan (you know, with the dust jacket and everything) and buying into a series that won't even be finished because the company is either too cheap or too afraid of the consequences (Kurohime). That last one really burned me, but am I going to stop buying their products? No. I'm still going to buy into the series I enjoy. It's like an election; you can vote for one guy or the other, but not voting at all doesn't really make much of a difference. 
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