It's been a while (some years) since I've read SS, but whatever. Imagine, to my surprise, when I hear about it next, people are saying that its characters are Star+/galaxy+ durable. Some saying that they can destroy Solar Systems. Some saying that some god(s) created a universe.
That made me freeze on the spot. I was like, "did I read the wrong manga"? But it turns out it's just a bunch of idiots spreading rumors. But decided to read the manga again.
This is definitely interesting. Shows how many people actually DIDN'T Pay attention while reading SS. Well, I think that they did pay attention...until they went to Naruto Forums. Then, they forgot everything and only saw what they wished to see.
Where the SSverse is concerned, it's easy for people to misunderstand a few things, despite reading a manga that's not that hard to understand. Seeing things that aren't there (people have mentioned things that I've never seen before, so...*shrugs*), taking people's words over the evidence, or rather, lack thereof.
Some things are understandable, I guess. I mean, in a verse where words such as 'Galaxy', 'Big Bang', 'Cosmos', 'Milky Way' and their derivatives are used, misunderstanding are bound to come up. An example being 'Galaxian Explosion', because of its name, most people believed it destroyed a galaxy. Despite the planets being so close to each other, that it wouldn't even be a Solar system, and despite the fact that the planets were nothing more than ILLUSIONS (not even illusions, just a background) created by 'Galaxian Explosion', people tend to believe what they want, instead of the facts. If most of you took time to remember or go through the manga again, you would see planets whenever 'Galaxian Explosion' is used. The explosion didn't destroy a planet, let alone a galaxy, stop kidding yourselves. It's no different than the 'Pegasus' that appears behind Seiya when he uses 'meteor fist'.
Names don't represent the amount of power or destruction a technique has, despite how cool they are. Tekken series has great technique names, as I'm sure most of you are aware, but the techniques themselves leave a lot to be desired.
Strength is not that much. Hyoga created a small creator in the ice. Although, he didn't have his armour on at the time. (Ch.5-pages 3-5).
He also destroyed a glacier (that hasn't melted in tens of thousands of years, just like some of the ice in the Arctic) to get his armour. A feat of strength not really worth praising outside the SSverse. (Ch.5-pg 12-14).
During the entire manga, strength doesn't deviate too far from this.
"Stand under 3000 feet of water pouring from the nine heavens of the Milky Way". It's hyperboles like that which have caused a great misunderstanding from most fans of SS. Shiryu was just under your normal, everyday waterfall. (Ch.6 pg 9 and 22). Although, I don't doubt that 'stars' on pg 22, refers to meteors and/or asteroids. Not actual stars. Yes, I know that it's pretty obvious, but there are people who believe that actual stars actually fell to earth. You know yourselves.
CH.7 PAGE 13.
Unicorn - "The Saints have Super-human Strength, but our bodies are as frail as anyone's".
Ch.7 Page 15. Seiya and Shiryu, with their respective Zodiac illusions in the background. And they are in 'space' too. I'm surprised someone didn't say, "Shiryu and Seiya were fighting in space".
Page 17. Without a cloth, a hit from Super human strength is fatal to a Saint. Now we know their vulnerability without their cloths. As Unicorn said, they are as 'frail as anyone'.
Ch.15 pg 22. Saints die after losing a third of their blood, just like humans. Saints are not that different from humans.
Ch.20 pg 64. Misty (Silver Saint) took the full force of Pegasus Meteor Fist, without being affected at all.
There are strong people in other Universes. Regardless if it's 100 or 100 million, there's no need to dodge if the attack won't affect them.
Ch.24 pg 33.
"...how else could you explain that the coliseum has been reduced to pieces so quickly" -Hyouga.
"Yeah, it's certain that for a few Saints working together, it's child's play" -Shiryu.
It takes a few Silver Saints to damage the Coliseum, not reduce to ruble, but damage it.
What an impressive display of power indeed. (Sarcasm)
Ch24 pg 53. A 300 meter fall can be fatal to a Saint, even with his armour on. 300 METER FALL. Not very durable.
Ch35 pg 71. You'll see galaxies and planets in the background (planets the size of galaxies??). It doesn't mean that they're in space. It's just a background that resembles space or it's an illusion, because they're still in the temple.
You'll see backgrounds like this throughout the manga, they're pretty common. They're are not in space, the background just changed.
*Isn't it funny that whenever something occurs and there's no one to explain the situation, Shiryu says something along the lines of,
"My old master told me...". Then, he explains everything. It was fine the first few times, but it happens every time. *
Some time ago, in a land far, far away- some fool spread rumors about Galaxian Explosion destroying a galaxy. More like a Solar System, with planets very close to each other, but whatever. This rumor is one of the most ridiculous I've ever heard. Probably the start of the rumors that Saint Seiya characters can destroy planets, stars, galaxies. There was no planet, Solar system or galaxy being destroyed. Every time Galaxian Explosion is used, the background shows planets breaking apart. These are just illusions, or rather, it's just the background changing, like when Seiya uses his Meteor Fist and you see Pegasus in the background.
Volume 20. Ch1. Pg 8.
Saga uses Galaxian Explosion in the House of Cancer to destroy the illusion of the 'slope of Yomotsu Hira'. You can see background showing illusions of planets breaking apart (don't know how many times I need to stress this). After it is used, the House of Cancer, doesn't even look scratched. It's in perfect state. So, please help on this one- help me understand, how could it have destroyed a planet, solar system or galaxy when it didn't even destroy the House of Cancer (the place where the explosion originated)???
**To those who have never read Saint Seiya, and have heard people say that Galaxian Explosion destroyed a Galaxy, and couldn't say anything about it because the page that was given as evidence/proof shows a person releasing an explosion and planets blowing up in the background, this part is for you. Now you know better.
Volume 21. Ch4. Pg 170-171.
Saga uses Galaxian Explosion again. And, like before, you can see the illusion of planets breaking apart in the background. No solar system or galaxy was destroyed or anything. Just illusions. Most likely just the background changing, instead of them being illusions (I doubt anyone can see them). The Virgo temple they were fighting in was still intact. It couldn't even destroy the Virgo temple. Let alone a galaxy.
Volume 23. Ch86. Pg 13.
Kanon uses Galaxian explosion. Like, Saga's, you can see the background showing breaking planets. Also, keep in mind that Kanon is in the World of the Dead (Hell).
Volume 24. Ch90. Pg 15.
Another Galaxian Explosion, with planets breaking in the background.
Volume 26. Ch3. Pg 88-89.
Kanon took of his Cloth and it flew off to gather with the other Gold Clothes. Kanon didn't fly off as well. He stayed to face Rhademanthes.
Kanon jumps into the sky of the underworld with Rhademanthes.
Kanon uses Galaxian Explosion. Like all other Galaxian Explosions before this one, one can see the background with planets breaking apart.
I see why people always say Kanon destroy the solar system or galaxy in this chapter. He jumped into the sky, then people assumed he went to space, then when Galaxian Explosion is used, they mistook the background/illusion planets as the planets of our Solar System or the Galaxy, for some reason. Despite the fact that Galaxian Explosion has been used many times in the past, people still don't recognize the its effect. The planets were just a background that's always present when Galaxian Explosion is used.
Another thing that confuses me is the fact that they are in the Underworld. The underworld of Greek Myth, and that of Saint Seiya, is below Earth.
There is no Sun. There is no SPACE. So, how could there be planets???
They're just illusion (or rather, a background) shown whenever Galaxian Explosion is used, to emphasize its name, probably.**
Another display of power was shown when Shaka destroyed Cancer's House. Shaka's 'Ten Bu Ho Rin' only destroyed half of the House of Cancer, quite a feat from one of the most powerful Gold Saints. This is what one of the most powerful attacks from one of the most powerful Gold Saints can do...destroy half a temple. Yet, apparently, they can destroy planets. Riiigghht. These exaggerations of power never seem to amaze me.
**To those who have never seen/read Saint Seiya, the temples aren't big, in case you were wondering. You have to see it yourselves. Just google it.**
Volume 21. Ch1. Pg26-27.
Leo (a gold saint), in his fight against Laimi, of the Hidden Terrestrial Star, comments on something VERY interesting.
One of Laimi's tentacles went through a temple's "column in one strike".
Then goes on to say, "I wouldn't have thought that he had that kind of strength".
That statement would make one think, "why is he surprised by that kind of strength, I mean it's just a column. He's a Gold Saint, I heard they've got Star+ durability".
Then Aiolia further says, "One blow from that and that's it for me".
The guy is wearing his Gold Cloth, yet something with the strength to go through a column in one strike is fatal to him.
Volume 27. Ch 104. Pg 5.
During Seiya's fight against Thanatos, Seiya used 'Pegasus Rolling Crash'.
**(Seiya grabs his enemy from behind, jumps into the air and dives down with the opponent beneath him. Crushing the enemy between himself and the ground)** Thanatos teleported out of Seiya's hands while Seiya was diving down. So, Seiya's head hits the ground, then he falls into a state of unconsciousness. He jumped a few meters into the air, and that's what happens when his head hits the ground. Where's that durability that people were talking about? The Durability that puts them on level of Goku, Superman, Herald, etc.
Star+ durability my ass. These guys don't even have planet level durability. It seems Saint Seiya fans suck these things from their thumbs.
**Sorry to those True Saint Seiya fans that actually know the truth about that.**
Volume 21. Ch3. Pg 104-105.
Athena Exclamation. "This destructive power replicates, on a small scale, the original Big Bang (how many Big Bangs where there???), which gave rise to our own universe."
Another one of those attacks that made rumors spread like wildfire regarding the power of the Saint Seiya verse.
One of the most powerful attacks in Saint Seiya verse. It is fueled by the power of three Gold Saints. One would expect a lot of destruction from this, yet the destruction is small. The explosion didn't even touch the House of Virgo, which is very close to where it was unleashed. The explosion only destroyed the field that it was unleashed on. It would destroy a city block or 2 at most. So much for the power of one of the most powerful attacks in the series. I expected to see an explosion visible from space or something. The field (land) is barren, but there's not even a crater.
Volume 21. Ch4. Pg 178-179.
"If two Athena Exclamations, two small Big Bangs, collide, their destructive force will not be multiplied by 2 or 3, but will be 'Infinite'..."
"In that case, the House of Virgo, the 12 Houses, all of Sanctuary...will be destroyed".
That's what happens when two blasts of 'infinite' power collide, destroy Sanctuary. Not the planet, solar system, galaxy or the universe. That's right, just Sanctuary. How powerful (sarcasm).
And they compare this type of power with universes such as DC, Marvel, DBZ etc. Saint Seiya would get destroyed if it were to encounter these universes.
Volume 24. Ch88. Pg4.
Wow. The underworld is really small.
Volume 26. Ch3. Pg 64-65. Pg. 68-69.
It's possible for Gold Saints to reproduce sunlight by combining their powers. Doing so allows them to reproduce, on a Small Scale, the power of the Sun.
This technique is less powerful than Athena Exclamation, so the fact that it produces the sun's power on a 'small scale' shouldn't even be brought up as a feat of power or something when Athena Exclamation is more powerful.
**To those that haven't read SS, and are wondering why they don't use Athena Exclamation because it's more powerful. The Saints were trying to take down the 'Wailing Wall'. In order to go through it, one must have divine blood. If they don't, they can destroy it. But to destroy the Wailing Wall, you need a ray of Sunlight, which isn't present in the Underworld. So, the Gold Saints have to combine their power to produce 'Sunlight' on a small scale. That's why they didn't use Athena Exclamation, it doesn't have the requirement to take down the Wailing Wall; Sunlight.**
It took the combined powers of all 12 Gold Saints to destroy the Wailing Wall. 12 Gold Saints combined their powers to created the Sun's power on a small scale. The Gold Saints who were alive, died. Some were spirits. They already died.
The almighty Hades, who's 'universal level' for some reason, "hates and fears the Sun".
Ch4. Pg 120-121. Pg 122-123.
That's the level of destruction the combined power of 12 Gold Saints did. That's what the power of the Sun on a small scale did. No very impressive is it.
Yet, you have people (fans that haven't read a single page of Saint Seiya) pitting these guys against the likes of Goku, Superman, Heralds, the Hulk, etc. *facepalms*
Then there are people who say that their power is...wait for it..."Concentrated". Lol. There's no concentrated about it. It is what it is. There's not even a shred of evidence that their powers are "concentrated". There's no "obvious" about it. Don't say things you can't back up in any way, shape or form.
Volume 26. Ch4. Pg 130-131.
Perhaps the only time in the entire manga that the 'Space' (another dimension) they're showing is not just a background or illusion. As Seiya and the others can actually see it, and they comment on it.
There have been rumors that Hades created the universe, where that rumor came from god knows. Another lie told by someone who saw what he/she wanted to see in the manga.
Volume 28. Ch.4. Pg 180-181.
Hades created Tartarus and Elysium, so basically, he created the Underworld, which is not that big. How in god's name does Hades creating the Underworld make him a 'universal level' being? Explain that to me.
Saint Seiya follows Greek Myth to a certain extent, including the creation of the universe, which was caused by the Big Bang, so how could Hades have created it if he didn't even exist yet?
Some time after the Big Bang, Gaia was born from Chaos (nothingness).
[The Big Bang thing and Gaia being born from Chaos are kind of contradictory]
After Gaia's birth, basically, the Earth, Gaia created Uranus. Then went on to create her children, the Titans and the Cyclops. Uranus was power hungry...(Blah, blah, blah) was overthrowned by Chronus, who became the 'king'. He was later overthrown by Zeus. So, when did Hades create the universe, as people never fail to mention? After it was already created??? He only created the Underworld.
Hades' 'will' or magic aligned the planets in the Solar System. That's quite a feat, but not really a feat of power. If he had done it using telekinesis or psychokinesis (whatever the difference is), now that would have been a feat of power. Regardless, I fail to see how Hades aligning the planets and creating the underworld makes him 'universal level'.
Shenron, the eternal dragon in DBZ, can grant almost any wish. It can resurrect the dead, can restore/revive a planet, can erase people's memories. Hell, he could probably rearrange the solar system for you him you asked. Yet, despite all this power, he was killed the King Piccolo. A person with a power level of 260. Seeing as Shenron can do all these things, by the logic of Saint Seiya fans, he is 'Universal Level'. Since he was killed by King Piccolo, that makes King Piccolo>universal level (impressive).
Then there was Kami who restored the moon. I guess such a feat makes him 'universal level'. Huh???
Then there's whatever kami that created the Room of Spirit and Time, which is bigger than Hades' entire Underworld. I guess that kami was 'universal level' as well???
Then the Namekians, the people that create the Dragon Balls, guess they're 'universal level' as well.
See. All the people/creatures that I mentioned above can do these 'awesome' things, yet that does not mean they're 'universal level'. If I went by Saint Seiya fan logic, all the ones I mentioned above are greater than 'universal level'.
Kami - power level of 220.
King Piccolo - power level of 260.
Shenron - ???, but smaller than 260???
Hades doing all those things does not prove anything about him being 'universal level'
The only thing, with certainty that can be said about some of its characters, is that they can throw some attacks at Light Speed. That's it. There no Light speed traveling.
I'm going to read 'Episode G' and 'Lost Canvas'. Whatever, doesn't matter if 'Episode G' is not canon.
I have gone through the Saint Seiya manga, not all of it. There are volumes and chapters missing on the net. Imagine, going from Volume 6 to Volume 19. Sad. But, lucky for me, most of the stuff that people used as 'proof' when debating happened to be in the chapters I read.
Anyway that being said, I have just this to say:
I have not found evidence whatsoever, that put Saint Seiya in the tier that people put it in. People put it up against DBZ, DC, Marvel, as if its characters are a Potara fusion of Broly and Doomsday or something.
Some say it's high tier DBZ, when I have yet to see anything that would make them survive past Raditz or Nappa. Honestly, even King Piccolo, the guy destroyed cities for kami's sake.
Superman would rip them a new one.
Heralds, the same as Superman.
If you don't believe me, read it for yourselves.
I found my manga at "http://www.mangatraders.com". Other sites might have the chapters grouped differently than what I have. The chapter numbers will also be different than what I've been seen and been using.
I don't have an account here (hell, this is the first I'm doing this), I'm using a friend's to post this, so don't be surprised if you don't see many responses from me.
"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember…that is the illusion."