Yusuke52 (Level 15)

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken.
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Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » White Beard and Black Beard vs Madara and Obito

@ohgodwhy: I wouldnt even fault them for not reading the manga, but not researching it? That is lazy to say the least, if you are getting involved then at least know what both sides can do and to what extent thay can do it.

Well typed up post anyway.

The last part is true, Putting 6 mountain busters in this match would turn it into a spite in team 2's favor. I doubt that the OP wanted to make this match horribly unfair by adding them in. So its safe to say that its just those who have been stated, and nobody should say otherwise.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Yamamoto vs. Whitebeard

@FormerCrimsonKing said:

Hate to say this but, nobody here used the term great mobility but yourself...

He managed to fight toe-to-toe with the admirals which would mean he is fast enough to keep up with them and dodge their attacks. Even in his weakened state he was able to intercept Kizaru while he was in his light form.

Yamamoto has psudo flight. Psudo being the key word there, in that he can stand and walk on the air but he cannot fly through it. Just because he can walk on air does not make him immune to the air vibrations caused by his quakes, Aokiji was hit by them in mid-air, Yamamoto will not be escaping him just by going into the air.

Nobody said Yamamoto only has his Bankai, I even said he would have a better chance with his Shikai due to its range.

Yamamoto can't tank a quake, and Whitebeard cant tank his flames. It can go either way. And neither is taking it with ease.

Its his Bisento.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Yamamoto vs. Whitebeard

@bobokyo: I will check on the Marco feat and see if thats true, but I doubt he would have dodged to begin with even if that were true.

He was able to intercept Kizaru who was starting to move in his light form, which should put them around the same level in terms of speed, Yamamoto might be faster over long distances however. In combat Whitebeard would have the advantage with Haki.

Edit: Just checked through all of Volume 57, to find it was on the first page of Volume 58... Not my day haha.

Its not that he was old, he said that his condition must be getting worse, but he should have still managed to dodge it. Which makes me think that he had no intention of dodging it at all. Plus it all leads into Whitebeard strengthing the moral of everyone present making it more of a plot device than anything related to his reaction speed.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Yamamoto vs. Whitebeard

@taichokage: I would disagree on mobility, he was holding his own in close quarters with the admirals despite his size, not to mention blocking Kizaru just as he changed into his light form to help luffy. Speedwise they would be about the same, Whitebeard wins in reaction time thanks to precog.

The Bakudo are a different story, Whitebeard is physical strong enough to break free from them, so Yamamoto would have to go very high up the list to get one that gives him enough time to capatlize on his immobility.

Whitebeard's quakes are enough to put Yamamoto down, just as Yamamoto's flames are enough to put Whitebeard down. But his Bankai limits him to CQC, which is the main reason why he would lose to such a powerful ranged fighter, unless the distance between them at the start of the fight is small enough for him to close tha gap.

Thats the reason I said his Shikai is the better bet here as it allows him to fight at range. That would either leave it in a tie or Whitebeard/Yamamoto winning but with high difficulty.

But I will agree with you that Yamamoto has more variety in how he can approach the battle.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Yamamoto vs. Whitebeard

@taichokage: Yeah, He lost it when Juha stole it and then he was sliced open.

What are your reasons for him winning? as I said they can more or less one shot each other.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » White Beard and Black Beard vs Madara and Obito

@aka_tsuki said:

still not impressive than madara's susanoo feat

and u still saying it city level due to cutting 'top of mountains' regardless i said he did all that with one slash from far away and those mountains were really so much big as sand dunes seems ants in comparing

mountains>>city level oh and he didn't one-shot city or something

and this is just the single power of madara we are talking about.

1 vs 1 bb can't take tobi as his power is very slow tobi could just stab him from back and kamui him for the win

if we'r counting six paths then i m all for team 2

o wait i didn't said rock level destruction try to be more observant its 'size'

1. Yeah im sure it was.

2. Its city level because of the damage around the base of susanoo, but you wont listen to anything I say so who cares.

3. No shit, and nobody here is at mountain level. 3 are at city and one is at building without summons.

4. This is his Perfect Susanoo, and currently his most powerful jutsu until he shows something better.

5. Blackbeard is not going to die from being stabbed with a kunai, when he can take Whitebeards punches and quakes. Neither is he or his powers slow by any means. Kamui takes its time for the effect to activate, he must remain solid while this is happening, a single quake is all it will take to put him down as he has shown no durability feats that suggest otherwise.

6. As I said, unless stated in the op they are not included. So bringing them up at any chance you get is pointless.

7. That you did, and that also means that it can be no better than a hill or rock level destruction feat... You cant destroy a family sized house and say it was city level now can you... unless your claim is that it was not Hill/Rock level and that it was infact much lower than that.

Like I said before cool story bro. But your argument makes little to no sense, there is no such level of destruction or size for that matter as "Rock level". This is the singular reason I will debate with you no further, if you measure size and by extention destruction with terms like "Rock level". This actually made me laugh when I read it, because I have NEVER heard someone refer to a tsunami as "rock" sized before.

We are talking about some VERY BIG fucking rocks here.

@ohgodwhy: Hope you will have more luck than myself, he seems to be very hard headed when you dont agree with him. You will have to get past the "rock" sized Tsunamis first, to get to the multi mountain level destruction that susanoo can produce.

Good luck to you sir.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » White Beard and Black Beard vs Madara and Obito

@aka_tsuki said:

u implied it by yourself that i m talking about small rock. there are a lot of big rocks...

and i m not talking about the area of marineford. its 'size' which still looks hill sized or a bit bigger

on the other hand u can imply the power output of susanoo sword swung from kilometers away in 1 slash destroyed 2-3 middle top of the mountains...and those big sand dunes looking like ants in the scan... gives the size of mountains

So I implied it was mountain sized. So I never said it then... Wow this is going to be fun, you think I imply sizes without saying so. I also use the term rock very widely so as to cover everything up to hill level.

and i m not talking about the area of marineford. its 'size' which still looks hill sized or a bit bigger

The size of the Iceberg is not the issue, its the volume of Ice he cut through...

Madara and Mihawks feats are one in the same, the difference is Madara's did more local damage than Mihawks did which is what moved the feat up to city level.

Thats him splitting 2 harder than steel Tsunami's with a single quake.

Thats him splitting Marineford with a single quake right down to the seabed, which would mean at least 1km worth of stone destroyed downwards, and that is over the entire distance of the island right to the seabed.

Now the last feat is the most important as he done this with half a head, his organs destroyed, a heart attack prior to the quake, stab wounds, gunshot wounds, cannonball wounds, and many many more.

Madara did his feat while immortal, fully healed, and needed a small mountain sized humanoid entity to pull it off.

Whitebeard did so with just a quake bubble no bigger than his head, and knocking on death's door. He then went on to beat the crap out of Blackbeard take some more gunshot, stab and who knows what else from his pirates before he finally died standing up on two legs.

If Whitebeard can pull off a feat equal to that of Madara's in the state he was in, he will either win with difficulty or stalemate him in a one on one fight.

Obito has no feats of his own that put him on either of their levels, So Blackbeard can take him with little difficulty.

Then you have 2 city busters (One high one low) one of which can absorb physical and elemental attacks not to mention open black holes, against 1 city buster who cant really do anything to harm either of them since they can block his attacks with Quakes or Darkness.

But Mihawk is only "hill/rock" (Fucking rock level lol) level in terms of destruction, so what do I know...

I have never heard somthing so silly in all my life, rock level destruction. Wow, what next is Naruto bathroom level in terms of stamina?

I honestly dont know what to say to this other than say.

Cool story bro, cool story.

Until I can think of something better. Enjoy the readings of Gilbert Gottfried. May not be suitable for children.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » White Beard and Black Beard vs Madara and Obito

@aka_tsuki: I never said it was mountain sized, read my entire post and find a single instance of me saying that the TSUNAMI was mountain sized. I dare you, I double dare you.

That feat is high town level at best. What you are saying then is Marineford is smaller than a hill, if the Iceberg is hill sized.

I just have to ask if you know what a hill is for a start, You put it on the same level as a "rock". In fact going by progression you put a rock higher up the scale than a hill since you placed it after hill. Which can be the case as planets could also be called rocks.

Just so we are clear on things here. Because I dont think you understand the concept of size and volume.

This is a rock. They can be bigger they can be smaller, this is a nice example of a rock.

And this is a hill. When you have enough dirt and stone you then reach this level.

Now

Many rocks make up a hill

But many hills do not make up a rock.

Now on to the next point.

Its because of that damage he is at High City Level, which puts him on par with Whitebeard and Blackbeard. Without that and only cutting off the top of the mountains he would be much lower.

I presented you with feats, and you claimed that Marineford is smaller than a hill or rock...

Yeah.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » White Beard and Black Beard vs Madara and Obito

@aka_tsuki said:

@Jinbeifan1 said:

@5th: just because it carved the ground as it went, doesnt make it a mountain buster. mihawk did something similar, slicing a mountain sized ice burg in half. hile that is impressive, thats only city busting material.

like i said before, BB could just absorb a bijuu bomb into darkness and send it back, even if its the big one. his darkness was able to stretch bery high over an island as shown in his fight with ace.

i keep forgeting to restrict that, he might as well be a logia type with that ability. its restricted, im changing it now.

yes it did cutted mountains in single slash..your just not getting this..meh.. hawkeyes never did that it was hill/rock sized iceburg... and bb still takes damages.. also i see madara and tobi winning this w/o paths.. no ur just trolling and overrating op characters

it was more than mountain level.. doesn't matter how u thinks..quakes can't match it... the power output is just too much...

I can only laugh at that first part.

Yep thats a "Hill/Rock" sized Tsunami alright.

This is Madara's.

Madara is high city level because of the damage he delt with it overall, He would have to do more damage to the ground around the base of susanoo for it to be mountain level.

no ur just trolling and overrating op characters

Its not overating, its observation.

The fact that, Whitebeard while having Half his head missing, his organs destroyed, countless stab, gunshot, and cannonball wounds, Tanking hits from the admirals, and also suffering from a heart attack to boot, Still managed to split Marineford to the seabed just from hitting Akainu in the side. Few, and I mean very few people in Naruto can do that fully healed, let alone take the damage he endured and still pull it off.

He was hyped to be a lifewiper back in his prime, which is possible given the nature of his quakes but we would need feats from a healthy Whitebeard to say for sure. No doubt he would do much more damage than he displayed at Marineford.

On the defence, his Susanoo can tank the hits from them, but Blackbeard can just open a black hole under his feet and absorb him.

Obito could also absorb them but he would have to go tangible to do it and he does not have the durability to survive a hit from either of them. So thats risky on his part. You would have to wait for a few more chapters and see what he pulls off against Team Naruto to see if he has what it takes to stand tall with the big boys in this match. Everything he has done so far is mostly just dodging attacks and phasing through them. Nothing suggests he could do any real damage to either of them.

I would give this to Team 1 with mid difficulty.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Yamamoto vs. Whitebeard

@YouFinished: Exactly that. And because Kubo never drew a background on his Zanka no Tachi North feat, there is no way to know how far it can reach. Given the distance between them on the next panel it was only a few meters. Against anyone with strong ranged combat that does not employ a physical substance like rock or water he is getting destroyed.

He is better off with only his Shikai in an instance like this, his Bankai gives him increased one shot potential but limits his ability to actually pull it off against someone in Whitebeards caliber.

His Bankai simultaneously makes his stronger and weaker. So his position of power in the HST has not changed for me. I would personally rank him higher with his Shikai since it allows him more versatility in his attacks.

All his Bankai gives him is one shotting potential, and unless he is against someone who fights in close quarters, Yamamoto, fighting any strong ranged fighter, might as well throw his blade on the ground and fight in hand to hand for all the good it will do him.

His corpses are really only there to slow someone down, they dont have any destructive feats or durability feats. I thought it would have been better had they been coated in flames too, at least then they would be of some use outside of hinderance. I like to think of them as the marines that stood their ground against Whitebeard in marineford.

And we all know how that turned out.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Yamamoto vs. Whitebeard

Yamamoto's power was overrated, his bankai while powerful, trades out long range combat for close range, its the trade off that will get him killed in most fights against anyone with decent ranged abilities and speed enough to dodge his attacks, like Whitebeard or someone with energy based attacks like Kizaru. An air-quake will kill him. With his Shikai at least he can keep the pressure on him.

They can one shot each other, but Whitebeard can do it more often thanks to ranged air quakes.

But as Destinyheroknight said this has been done before.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

@UltimateHero0406:

2. Like I will continue to say until you can understand it. Just because he has the possibility of using it does not mean that he can in fact use it, or will in fact use it.

What you are using is what I would call a formal fallacy.

More importantly, Appeal to Probability: Just because something can happen you believe it is innevitable it will happen.

That is wishful thinking, unless he shows it, he does not currently have it. Its not that hard to understand. The true Madara was dead up until some chapters ago and suddenly you know more about him that kishi, giving him moves he has yet to display.

3. And that in itself changes nothing, He does not know the effect and therefore that point is moot in and of itself.

5. And how did his revival work out for him? It didnt go exactly as planned, he was brought back by Kabuto not Nagato.

and all you have to do is not look at the release once you know what it does.

Once the blade has been seen, unless you touch it the subsequent release of the blade, whether you are looking at it or not will take effect on your mind. This is the basic rule that was set forth when he used it way back in the SS Arc, unless you are saying that everyone in the soul society was looking at him when he "impaled" himself against the wall 30 foot in the air?

6. I know what joke means, I said clearly that it was not that funny and seems pointless to say in the first place. Read what I say before you start saying I cant take a joke... If you dont like me then say so, you have no reason to joke about it.

7. You seem to disregard everything I say and continue on with fallacys and pointless arguments.

Your point is that IF he had Izanagi then he would get past Kyoka Suigetsu, he would learn to not look at the blade because he learned somewhere that is where the power stems from and he would then proceed to beat some who exceeds him in all stats.

Your point is based on what if's.

Without knowledge where will he learn that the blade is the source of the illusion, where will he learn that he needs to touch the blade to stop its complete hypnosis, Where did he show his use of Izanagi to a level that has yet to be seen?

Madara is going to get trolled, nothing you say will change this until he gets some good feats of his own. Izanagi wont save him from Kyoka Suigetsu, he can continually placed under complete hypnosis everytime he breaks out.

This is your thread, if you feel so strongly about one of the partys involved you should not have made it to begin with.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@Yusuke52: 1. not arguing effectiveness with you. aizen won on that point.

2. there is nothing saying that he cannot use izanagi (sharingan + rinnegan + senju dna) but this is just a scenario.

3. reality trumps illusion, he would have only dreamt that he saw the activation releasing him from effect

4. just making sure you know that last thing

5. like i said before the difference is prep

6. Screw u

7. jk

2. There is nothing saying that he cant he has everything there that he needs to use it, BUT he has never shown it on panel, so to come to an absolute conclusion that "He has it and thats that. Because he has this and this, that means he must have this" is rather fallacious of you.

He might have everything he needs to perform it, but that does not mean he can. I can buy alot of surgical equiptment, but that does not mean I can preform a coronary artery bypass.

Until he shows it, dont say he can. When/if he does, then you are free to use it.

3. Yeah thats right it does. Can you please explan to us then, how he is going to know the swords effects upon its release, then for him to decide that releasing Izanagi is his only way out.

He can make him believe that the sword controls grass and plants, because when he released it they all came to life and bound him down on the ground.

He could make it so it controls the earth, or fire, or water, or wind, or darkness, or light, or poison, or ice, or making it so it extends. Any one of these can be used to fool him, but according to you Madara will see right through them all and know that everything is an illusion. Then he proceeds to release Izanagi, something which he has yet to show (Not saying he cant, im saying he has yet to prove he can), use it in a way that has never been done before (Might work but without proof we will never know, as said, even if it does work he can place him under it again right after.) and break out and kill him before he is placed under it once more, effectively using up his eyes in the process making this a last ditch effort to kill Aizen.

So I ask you to explain how he will know all of this. Given the verse he comes from, the ability to control any one of these things seems highly likely and he has no reason to think differently.

4. Im just making sure you understand what you are saying.

5. Madara, outside of hooking himself up to a tree to stay alive, and regrowing limbs from a brittle substance (We have yet to see his involvment in the Akatsuki, but given his current state I would not hope for much unless he pulls a miracle healing jutsu out his ass, which if kishi keeps on going the way he is going is exactly what is going to happen...). Has never done anything prep worthy on the level Aizen has (Creating an army of arrancar, Fooling everyone in the Gotei 13, making them all believe that his zanpakto was a different type, setting the wheels in motion for the whole story). Besides:

Who would win and why in a battle between the two biggest villains from Naruto and Bleach . Battle is on on a level playing field where both characters bodies on are on the same plane of existance and YES they can see each other. They can use their strongest forms and battle is to incapacitation or death.

Nowhere here does it say that he or Aizen has prep or knowledge, therefore they have neither since they are not turned on by default.

6. I dont know why you had to edit that to put it in. Seems pointless, if you dont like what im saying then I think you started the wrong thread. But I digress.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

@UltimateHero0406: Aizen can make his opponents see/hear/feel/smell/taste what ever he wants them to, the fact that it controls all 5 senses means Madara will be unable to see/hear/smell/feel/taste the difference in the illusion that has been placed on him. Even if in his mind he can sense something is amiss, with all of his senses fooled he will be unable to act on it.

Aizen releases the blade and suddenly lunges at Madara, not in a way that would make Madara dodge. Instinctively he stabs him through the chest with his hand/sword. He dies infront of Madara, he goes and checks the corpse, while in the back of his mind he thinks something fishy is going on.

Everything here looks dead, no pulse, no breathing, Stabs it again just to be sure, blood spills out and the skin has started to darken along with the fact it is now ice cold.

No question here everything I can see here is dead. I cant hear any beating of the heart or breathing, Its starting to smell real bad, his skin feels ice cold, He takes a bite of his flesh just to be sure (Cause he is a badass like that) and it tastes rancid. Lets perform a quick autopsy just so I can put my mind at ease.

No doubt about it, this guy is dead.

But he still thinks something is wrong, he cant quite place his finger on it since he has literally sliced him to pieces and confirmed with every sense he has that this is a dead body...

Then out of nowhere he is having his eyes ripped from his head and a hand pushed through his chest. His soul is being sent on its merry way while he has suddenly been caught in a binding kido. He then realises that his suspicions were in fact correct but there is nothing that he could have done to prevent the outcome of what just transpired given that all his natural senses told him different.

As to why you are arguing the effects of Kyoka Suigetsu is beyone me, everyone knows how broken it is. Surely I dont have to explain it to you in this much detail for you to see why he stomps. That coupled with his superior stats gives him an easy win.

I also assume you have no proof of the Izanagi feats that I asked for? Didnt expect you to, since none exist. That would be like asking you to find intelligent life on another planet in the next 5 minutes.

second if someone knows they are doing something in their mind and they find a difference between that and whats happening the illusion would be known

If your body was suddenly paralysed and you didnt realise it and you tried to move your arm to take another bite of you food and it didnt move, you would just jump straight to the conclusion that you have now been placed under an illusion and that your life is at stake and everyone around you is now the enemy and that the only way out of this is to awaken your dormant sharingan and use Izanagi's hidden abilities that have never been used before, ever to escape and kill the person who has done this to you? This has nothing to do with a sudden medical emergency, or something is holding you down, its 100% illusions for you then?

Yeah...

He is controling his actions through the illusions, not controlling him directly

@DBZ_universe: He is just cool like that!

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

@DBZ_universe: Im surprised by how many of these there are haha.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

@UltimateHero0406: I proved that Izanagi has yet to be used in the instance you described. unless of course you can show Izanagi being utilized in the way you described in order to avoid a genjutsu like ability? If not then your point is based on the assumption it can be used in the way you describe.

It would mean that Izanagi is supressing Kyoka Suigetsu not its hold on Madara, which would be impossible without extending its powers past the user and affecting the blade itself.

He can only alter his reality as long as he himself knows what it is. With Kyoka Suigetsu messing with his perception of what is real and what isn't he is not going to be able to judge how and when to use it.

Also he does not know about Kyoka Suigetsu, it has no give away that is has been activated other than the blade shattering. How will Madara know that he is under its effects, if it's effects are so strong that even a captain as powerful as Yamamoto would rather let himself get stabbed and sense Aizen that way than try to fight him under its effects, What hope does Madara have in seeing through it.

Keep in mind that Yamamoto has some 2000 more years of experience than Madara does when trying to answer this.

Besides once Complete Hypnosis is active Madara will no longer be under his own influence, even if he wanted to activate his suspossed new ability that you have given him without proof on whether he has it or not. He would be unable to make the handsigns required before he is sliced in half.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

@UltimateHero0406: You seem to be mistaken on the mechanics of the jutsu. It alters the users reality. Not reality itself. If he takes a fatal wound then he can brush it off as a dream, if he lands an attack that is not fatal then he can make it fatal.

Its not some ultimate reality warping jutsu that allows him to change the abilities of his opponents.

Even if it did, it has yet to show anything beyond revival. So to say he is going to negate Kyoka Suigetsu with it is silly.

Besides, he has yet to show it and therefore he does not currently have it so the point is moot.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

@UltimateHero0406: Unless he somehow learns Izanagi in the middle of this very short fight, then its pointless to bring it up. Unless it shows him using it, its safer to say he cant. Even if he could what good would it do him? He will only bring himself back to be killed again. He cant tag Aizen because he is slower than him, Aizens overall attack strength is greater, and Aizen appears to be more durable based on what Madara has been hit by.

Once under Complete Hypnosis he wont be able to use any attacks unless Aizen wants him to. There will be no meteor spamming.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

@bobokyo: That is more or less what is going to happen in this fight, Aizen likes the look of those nice eyes Madara has... *Troll Face*

@DBZ_universe:

This has all been part of Aizens plan.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Madara Uchiha VS. Sosuke Aizen

@UltimateHero0406: Madara has never displayed Izanagi so that point is moot.

His special eyes allow him to see chakra, how exactly will they be helpful in seeing through an ability that has nothing to do with chakra, and this is a feat that some 2000 year old captains were unable to achieve. Yamamoto had to let himself get stabbed so he could sense Aizens Reiatsu, because he knew that if he didnt he would be unable to target Aizen and kill the real one.

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