Yusuke52 (Level 14)

@waybig1010101: You dont understand how things burn, at that level of heat flames would no longer appear. Despite this the properties of the heat on the edge of his blade remain, it will vaporise any physical object it touches, It will burn it up so fast that it looks like it has disapeared right in from of you. But this can only happen for physical matter, something tangible that he or anyone else can grasp.

This is obviously what is happening, but I feel my words are wasted on you.

by the way that 15,000,000 degrees is still not east its his west.

"All the heat of my flames" Zanka no Tachi East.

Zanka no Tachi West - his body is now engulfed in all the heat that his flames can produce, or as he says 15,000,000 degrees.

Now if his flames can reach a heat level of 15,000,000 degrees and he claims that his sword contains "All the heat of my flames" what the hell are you trying to say?

Read through your drivel before you post it next time, good lord I feel my brain cells commiting suicide the longer I debate this with you.

I am still waiting for the scans that I asked for and the answer to my question thanks.

@waybig1010101: "All the heat of my flames"

All the heat of his flames are at 15,000,000 DEGREES.

Its not Kelvin (K) which you keep saying, its a completely different form of measurement, and you will find that it will convert to a much lower celcius reading.

But I digress.

You also didn't answer my question or show me scans of what I asked for.

@waybig1010101: Scans that outline the laws of light in One Piece then, since you apparently have inside knowledge on how physics in their universe works.

I read a wiki now? Funny I thought me having all the volumes here and looking foward to the next one every week was something a fan of the series does.

I fully understood Yamamoto's Bankai, I also understand that heat (You even pointed this out) burns things. the only difference here is that Yamamotos bankai burns things so fast that it appears that they just vanish, this is due to the 15,000,000 degree heat that is compressed into the edge of the blade.

The reason he refers to it as simply "blowing away anything that it touches" is just to signify how fast the burning process is.

Think of it like a white hot poker, except much hotter.

If you still doubt that it burns then I would ask you one simple question.

What is that rising from the blade in the top panel? And when you answer this please enlighten us as to how it is formed.

Just for the record those who try and say others use a wiki, generally use wikis.

@waybig1010101: He exists as light, you tried to say light is comprised of atoms (Fucking fail I would like to add) and that is why he can be destroyed by his Bankai.

You were wrong.

When I point this out you say that I fail for bringing physics into this despite you were the first one to attempt it. And I use attempt because that is what it was.

At what point did it cross your mind that you were trying to argue how a sword, that was in excess of 15,000,000 degrees, was able to vaporise Kizaru because he was made of atoms in his light form, and that atoms can be destroyed.

You call me out for bringing physics into this when you try to justify your argument by using it.

light and you admit can be destroyed

Quote me saying light can be destroyed, I dare you.

But if you mean the following

This property of light must existence in anime because if not then no one can see. So if there is a light form being made of light particles can still be touch by any object the issue is that can the object affect light. in this cause yamamoto sword can touch light particles since you can see his sword and his sword is different from other anime weapons or attacks because those moves are not able to affect light particles. But anything that Yamamoto sword touches turn into nothing( does not burn simply it just erases anything it touches)

Allow me to point out the first glaring mistake in your hypothesis.

If it truly was destroying everything the sword comes into contact with, would that not in effect make to sword or more importantly the edge impossible to see as any light that touches it would be destroyed? Let you mull that one over there and see if you can notice why your point makes no sense, I will continue on here.

If you could actually read and understand what was being said in the above quote, you would know that I was pointing out how STUPID what you were saying was. I thought it was obvious when I said:

"ALLOW ME TO POINT OUT THE FIRST GLARING MISTAKE IN YOUR HYPOTHESIS"

"YOUR" BEING THE KEY WORD THERE.

yes and if you use real world light properties someone like kizura can't exist and i put it in terms that if you read in a manga it could be understandable because it could work for anime physics not real physics

And it you use real world physics its impossible to generate that much heat on the edge of a blade and surround yourself in flames that are 15,000,000 degrees. The fact remains they are at that temperature, just like the fact remains that Kizaru is Light when he transforms.

We use physics to quantify feats. And the fact is that his sword cannot bypass his light form to destroy him.

Nothing that you can say will change this.

Kizaru can turn into light

Yamamoto can surround himself with the heat of the sun.

Kizaru can move at the SPEED OF LIGHT, for him to do so he must be MADE OF A MASSLESS PARTICLE (PHOTONS). As anyone with a brain can tell you, it is IMPOSSIBLE to move at those speeds with a mass greater than 0.

Exceptions to this are characters in Marvel, etc.

This should also be evident given that he can float in mid air as if he has no mass at all.

Oda on the other hand has went to the trouble to turn him into light to allow him to move at these speeds, this is what the manga shows.

Im not one to call someone else an idiot, but for you I shall make an exception.

How this turned into Kizaru vs Yamamoto is beyond me.

Im ending this here with Masaki stomps.

@waybig1010101: Oh wow.

Now the question is can his sword touch light. well considering that you can read the words on this post means yeah it does and let me explain.

Haha, this should be good.

In order to see objects light has to bounce of them and then your eyes see the light that has bounce off the object( your brain really but i say eyes to make it easier to understand)

Nice of you to dumb it down for me... lol

put that if light doesn't bounce or TOUCH objects then everyone would be blind. All seeable objects in the universe is being touch by light therefore all objects including me and you are touch by light and we are touching light.

Very rough concept of how light works, very rough indeed.

This property of light must existence in anime because if not then no one can see. So if there is a light form being made of light particles can still be touch by any object the issue is that can the object affect light. in this cause yamamoto sword can touch light particles since you can see his sword and his sword is different from other anime weapons or attacks because those moves are not able to affect light particles. But anything that Yamamoto sword touches turn into nothing( does not burn simply it just erases anything it touches)

Allow me to point out the first glaring mistake in your hypothesis.

If it truly was destroying everything the sword comes into contact with, would that not in effect make to sword or more importantly the edge impossible to see as any light that touches it would be destroyed? Let you mull that one over there and see if you can notice why your point makes no sense, I will continue on here.

Example if you put a straw in water does the straw affect the water

Horrible analogy first of all.

LIGHT IS MADE UP OF ATOMS

Wrong.

kizura can be light and a person at the same time because it would show the mass he needs to be a person while being made up of light.

Allow me to expand on my above word.

Light is not made of atoms because if you knew anything about light speed movement you would know that any object with a mass greater than 0 can never reach that speed. Now an atom is comprised of 3 things, protons, neutrons and electrons, all of which have a mass making it impossible from him to move at the speed of light if he still had any of them.

Light is comprised of protons, a massless particle. It is the embodiment of energy, which can neither be created nor destroyed only transformed from one energy into another. Yamamoto is UNABLE to destroy light for this single reason as he is unable to destroy energy with just heat and flames.

If you say that light is made of atoms one more time I will go and slap my dog, mostly because you seem so sure that what you are saying is correct and yet you couldnt be more wrong. I hope you learn something from this.

protons of light

*Facepalm* its photons, they are completely different.

by the way atoms are made up of particles

Atoms are formed by strong electromagnetic bonds between protons, neutrons, and electrons (I could go more indepth but I feel it shall be wasted knowledge), none of which are present in light.

LOGIA INTANGIBILITY- NOT TRUE INTANGIBILTY- example light can touch other objects (and i show this already) so it not intangible is just that no objects can really affect light( other One piece logia character included) except in this case were touching the light would cause it to not exist anymore so it can affect the light where other objects could not. Real intangibilty would be some danny phantom thing were he cant touch other objects and he turns invisble because light doesn't touch him.( please not add more to this Danny Phantom statement because its just an example that shows what true Intangibilty would be like)

Its more accurate to call it dispersion.

When intangibility is referenced in a battle it refers to the inability to hit someone with physical attacks, Obito is intangible yet that does not make him invisible, Sue Storm is invisible yet that does not make her intangible.

Intangible - Cannot be touched or harmed by physical means.

Invisible - Cannot be see.

If someone is able to do both then using intangible is fine, but if someone can only do one and not the other it is incorrect to call them intangible.

GENJUSTU- honestly i could have stated this one better I was unsure if genjustu can be use on other anime characters and you prove to me it couldn't so now I know genjustu is one of those anime powers that work only in its anime world. But you miss my point i said genjustu in theory could beat bleach characters what i mean is that any anime character who can control one's mind or control someone's perspective of reality can beat anyone from bleach because of this ability. Examples Aizen and Lelouchi.

Anyone with a decent level of speed with be able to beat Aizen and lelouch into the ground before they can activate their respected abilities. Example, The Flash.

Lelouch would be killed before he can activate his geass against any bleach character as he lacks the speed to dodge their attacks and keep up with their movements. Someone like Tousen could just walk up and stab him with his finger. Unless they have the speed to dodge and avoid them while they cast the illusion, or, can cast illusions at a speed fast enough to bypass the blitz then they getting killed.

now that i made myself more clear and prove to you how yamamoto's bankai works to show you it wouldn't burn but just erases everything

It vaporises anything it touches, for it to do that there has to be a physical object there for it to hit.

i don't write this to make myself sound smarter than you i write this because i can form a proof to backup my statement that yamamoto's sword could remove Kizura from existence.

Go and read up on what Light, Photons and Energy are then get back to me, because your proof is lacking in some key details.

@One_Piece_God: Thought as much. I have heard some things about it in the past and I have them here, just never found the time to read it.

@waybig1010101: I would comment on how you are wrong in the way you described how Yamamotos Bankai worked and that light is made of atoms (Dont know what can be said to this to be honest) that can be destroyed with fire. But I feel it would just be a waste of time, I will just say that you are wrong on both accounts and leave it at that.

To the spirit invisibility part, that is taken out by default to make a match fair, as is logia intangibility or dispersion (However you want to call it). So it is not active and there will be no cheap wins because of it.

To the genjutsu part, this is also wrong because genjutsu only effects those with a chakra network, people from One Piece and Bleach will be unaffected by genjutsu and it would be pointless to even try. This is overlooked most of the time to make it fair.

Just realised that you have already done this thread...

http://www.animevice.com/forums/battles/33/obiwan-kenobi-vs-zabuza/330965/

@solesamurai: Thats fine that you want to contribute, but you can disregard important things like: Kizaru being in control of his light form to try and make an argument out of it. The only way Yamamoto is going to beat Kizaru is if Logia Intangibility is off, even then that will be hard given the strength and speed that Kizaru can display and reach. With logia intangibility on, Yamamoto is getting stomped, because unlike Akainu and Aokiji, his attacks cant be burned away with his Zanjitsu Gokui and he cant be obliterated with Kyokujitsujin as he does not turn into some physical material like Aokiji and Akainu.

But that is off topic, I dont know alot about GetBackers but from what I gather, Masaki should take this easily enough.

Editing your post to add more.

You didn't need to attempt to dumb it down in anyway shape or form(even though you failed at it). I merely stated facts about the law of reflection and light physics, any and all light launched at a sword would be reflected off the sword Fact. Cutting through light is possible due to the law of reflection, Fact. Taking physics into consideration Kizaru technically should be defeated(without taking his control of light into consideration)fairly easily, or even at the least it should be very hard for him to get a win against a swordsman. I also remember saying I don't even know what manga Masaki is from so that's why I used Kizaru as an example, I made the post with the assumption that that Masaki powers functioned in some way similar to how Kizaru's worked. Yama would not need to doeg no, because with the law of reflection(proven by physicists I'll take they're version of the facts over yours anyday) that yama could reflect light coming his way, would that be in character for anyone in bleach? No, does that mean Yama would automatically think to use his sword as a sort of mirror? No. You took what I said and completely disregarded most of the facts, it would be physically impossible for anyone to block all light coming their way if you put any thought into it, but as I said before I MADE THE POST DISREGARDING SOMETHINGS HOPING IT WOULD AT LEAST GIVE PEOPLE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

You didn't need to attempt to dumb it down in anyway shape or form(even though you failed at it)

Lets start with this, I was not dumbing it down. I was stating what you said in a sarcastic manner.

I merely stated facts about the law of reflection and light physics, any and all light launched at a sword would be reflected off the sword Fact.

And this is a fact that is overlooked simply because of what I said in the first place. But sure just because I can, why not show you why you are wrong?

There you have Whitebeard cutting through his lightform with the bladed end of his Bisento, and yet Kizaru is still alive, the light did not reflect and he reformed himself after. This alone destroys your post but lets continue anyway.

Cutting through light is possible due to the law of reflection, Fact.

Then you are not cutting it, you are reflecting it. Fact: Reflecting and cutting are 2 different things.

Taking physics into consideration Kizaru technically should be defeated(without taking his control of light into consideration)fairly easily or even at the least it should be very hard for him to get a win against a swordsman.

Bolded and underlined the part where you argument becomes invalid due to the FACT that Kizaru can control his light. If you have touble with this, refer to the image above to see the difference between real light from our world and Kizaru's logia powers.

I also remember saying I don't even know what manga Masaki is from so that's why I used Kizaru as an example, I made the post with the assumption that that Masaki powers functioned in some way similar to how Kizaru's worked.

A very poor assumption at that.

Yama would not need to doeg no, because with the law of reflection(proven by physicists I'll take they're version of the facts over yours anyday) that yama could reflect light coming his way

Did their version of facts include Kizaru's being able to control and generate light as well as turn into it? I know plenty about physics. I also know that you overlook the fact that having a blade with concentrated flames on the edge reaching 15,000,000 degrees would be generating so much mass that he should be incapable of lifting it, let alone swinging it around, and since you are so devout on true to life physics and only believe their version of facts, these flames are real flames and not made of reiatsu since that does not exist in real world physics.

No. You took what I said and completely disregarded most of the facts, it would be physically impossible for anyone to block all light coming their way if you put any thought into it, but as I said before I MADE THE POST DISREGARDING SOMETHINGS HOPING IT WOULD AT LEAST GIVE PEOPLE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

Irony here being that you were the one to disregard things first.

If you had to disregard things then your post was not worth typing, as WE still have to take the things YOU disregard into account making everything you said pointless and without basis.

Obi-Wan easily.

@bobokyo: I believe he thinks that Kizaru can be beaten by holding a mirror in front of yourself and scattering his light state to the far reaches of the universe, bypassing his logia intangibility...

That hitting him with a sword is somehow reflecting his light particles away from his body, more or less doing damage to his intangible state meaning that if he was to reform he would have been sliced in half.

He seems to overlook the fact that Kizaru controls the light he is made of and would only be reflected if he wished it to happen, If he turned into light and was unable to control it he would just have dispersed himself with no means of reforming. He also seems to think that a sword would be capable to reflecting an entire bodys worth of light just by holding it up. And that Yamamoto will win this without even releasing his shikai, going under the assumption that Kizaru's Light = Masaki's Light.

He wont need to dodge them since he can apparently just reflect them with his sword, because you know... Yamamoto can do that now. Do you not remember the time he reflected all the light from the sun with his sword so as to make himself semi-invisible and kill a bunch of people before the light even reached their eyes?

Back in the good old days of Bleach.

@aka_tsuki: @ohgodwhy:

Top 3 is him splitting Marineford with a single quake, It was split straight down to the seabed and the 3rd scan can confirm that given the gap in the giant fissure he created. As ohgodwhy said he was likely holding back so as not to hurt the pirates, It could have been much worse. Sengoku even comments that its surprising he could do that with half his face having been obliterated by Akainu (You can see it happening in the first scan top left, it was toned done in the anime only showing him losing half his beard).

Next one his him hitting Blackbeard in the face with a quake, and he comes out with only a few cuts and bruises.

Final one indicated that he was injured 267 times by swords, 152 times by bullets, and 46 times by cannon balls. It does not mention the attacks he suffered at the hands of the admirals and his heart attack that caused him to take an all out attack from Akainu to his body which more or less destroyed his organs. The fact that he died why standing shows just how resilient he was to everything.

Despite all his wounds and poor health from the start of the battle he still done all of this.

If he is in good health there is nothing that Madara can do to stop Whitebeard from sending him straight to oblivion with one quake at point blank range.

Madara is strong but Obito brings the whole team down due to lack of feats that puts him in the level of the other three. Madara might be able to handle one, but he is not taking down both.

When Ichigo fought Byakuya he was kicking off the air to move through Senbonzakura.

Ichigo fighting Grimmjow in mid air during their final battle In Hueco Mundo.

If you can disprove it then by all means go ahead, but evidence would say that Shunpo is how he navigated his way to Juhabach's location, since it would remain consistent with all the other showings.

Its not like it would make a difference either way regardless of how you look at it, Whitebeard can still hit him in the air, so going up there is pointless.

Why do you believe its impossible to air step in the soul society, Do you think its void of air but has wind and water and food?

Just so we are clear, when I refer to air stepping I am refering to their ability to solidify reishi beneath their feat and kick off from it.

Dont tell me you thought I ment walking on actual air unaided? I thought it was common knowledge that they can solidify reishi under their feet.

Reishi in the atmosphere is also able to be controlled freely, allowing a person to gather it under their feet so that they can stand in air.

A true flier can recover for an attack that would disable his flight momentarily, Yamamoto cannot do so if he is falling down.

My point is its not true flight but people seem to act like they have wings and can just fly into the air when they please.

That shows him using Shunpo to dash through the Seireitei in a matter of 2 steps at the most, The first one being the black line (Yamamoto) hitting the edge of the flames in the top panel, the next is where the flames stop. Even when Ichigo preformed Shunpo to this degree way back in his post dangai form to bring Aizen out of Karakura, he had the appearance of flying but it was in fact Shunpo that did it.

This is something that he was noted in being highly skilled in, I even said myself that he would likely beat Whitebeard over long distances, and that was thanks to stuff like this.

To cover a set distance in the least amount of steps, it give the appearance of flying when you take fewer and fewer steps. Its still psudo flight. Impressive? Yes, True Flight? No

But like I say, if you have a statement from a credible source saying he can in fact fly then I will conceed the point, otherwise there is nothing to suggest that this is anything by Shunpo. It has been done before, and it remains consistent with everything else shown.

@ohgodwhy: His chakra should allow him to bring it out (Based on him summoning Kurama back in his day), but I can't see him keeping it out for long as the chakra drain would take it's toll in a matter of minutes given the sheer size of it. It's a game of conservation with him, something which Blackbeard and Whitebeard dont have to worry about, as they can quake all day long and not run out of energy.

Obito is a nonfactor, he lacks the damage to do anything to them, and lacks the durability to stand up to their attacks. Kamui is his only shot at doing damage but he has to be solid in order to use it which more or less spells death for him if any of their attacks connect.

Blackbeard is more or less a walking Rinnegan. But his powers seem to be more effective and more pratical for a fight such as this, since he can absorb physical matter and not just chakra.

Whitebeard's Haki should be enough to break through all but the best genjutsu, but Madara has yet to show how skilled he is with genjutsu so there is no way to know for sure how powerful his are. He seems to be an all out destructive fighter, its likely Izuna was the genjutsu user in his family and he was the brawn.

But its as you said they are very limited in what they can do to win.

@taichokage: Its mostly to do with the damage he done around his susanoo and the damage leading up to it that would make it a better feat than Mihawks. That, and he compared its power to that of a Bijuu, so City level is respectable going off of that statement.

@ohgodwhy: I wouldnt even fault them for not reading the manga, but not researching it? That is lazy to say the least, if you are getting involved then at least know what both sides can do and to what extent thay can do it.

Well typed up post anyway.

The last part is true, Putting 6 mountain busters in this match would turn it into a spite in team 2's favor. I doubt that the OP wanted to make this match horribly unfair by adding them in. So its safe to say that its just those who have been stated, and nobody should say otherwise.

@FormerCrimsonKing said:

Hate to say this but, nobody here used the term great mobility but yourself...

He managed to fight toe-to-toe with the admirals which would mean he is fast enough to keep up with them and dodge their attacks. Even in his weakened state he was able to intercept Kizaru while he was in his light form.

Yamamoto has psudo flight. Psudo being the key word there, in that he can stand and walk on the air but he cannot fly through it. Just because he can walk on air does not make him immune to the air vibrations caused by his quakes, Aokiji was hit by them in mid-air, Yamamoto will not be escaping him just by going into the air.

Nobody said Yamamoto only has his Bankai, I even said he would have a better chance with his Shikai due to its range.

Yamamoto can't tank a quake, and Whitebeard cant tank his flames. It can go either way. And neither is taking it with ease.

@Jinbeifan1 Its his Bisento.

@bobokyo: I will check on the Marco feat and see if thats true, but I doubt he would have dodged to begin with even if that were true.

He was able to intercept Kizaru who was starting to move in his light form, which should put them around the same level in terms of speed, Yamamoto might be faster over long distances however. In combat Whitebeard would have the advantage with Haki.

Edit: Just checked through all of Volume 57, to find it was on the first page of Volume 58... Not my day haha.

Its not that he was old, he said that his condition must be getting worse, but he should have still managed to dodge it. Which makes me think that he had no intention of dodging it at all. Plus it all leads into Whitebeard strengthing the moral of everyone present making it more of a plot device than anything related to his reaction speed.

@taichokage: I would disagree on mobility, he was holding his own in close quarters with the admirals despite his size, not to mention blocking Kizaru just as he changed into his light form to help luffy. Speedwise they would be about the same, Whitebeard wins in reaction time thanks to precog.

The Bakudo are a different story, Whitebeard is physical strong enough to break free from them, so Yamamoto would have to go very high up the list to get one that gives him enough time to capatlize on his immobility.

Whitebeard's quakes are enough to put Yamamoto down, just as Yamamoto's flames are enough to put Whitebeard down. But his Bankai limits him to CQC, which is the main reason why he would lose to such a powerful ranged fighter, unless the distance between them at the start of the fight is small enough for him to close tha gap.

Thats the reason I said his Shikai is the better bet here as it allows him to fight at range. That would either leave it in a tie or Whitebeard/Yamamoto winning but with high difficulty.

But I will agree with you that Yamamoto has more variety in how he can approach the battle.

@taichokage: Yeah, He lost it when Juha stole it and then he was sliced open.

What are your reasons for him winning? as I said they can more or less one shot each other.