Ultimate is much worse than Elfen Lied in my opinion.
I could get some screen shots if you want a taster, but it might take me an hour or so.
I agree with, this should be on Comicvine. Let them look at it and see if you are correct.
Besides if it's as you say, and we all get our information for sites like that, why then would you come here and try to "debunk" all of this when you could just go to the source of the problems and spread the word there? It would be much more effective that way as the chance of it spreading from a site that is aimed at anime and manga fans is slim at best.
Could it be because you somehow feel that "because this is an anime site they wont know any better than to question me". Which would leave me to question the validity of your claims.
Bring this to Comicvine, if they feel its ok then good for you. As Destinyheroknight said this is for anime and manga, and this has nothing to do with either.
Post it in off-topic if anything, but you should really bring it to Comicvine if you want to sort it out.
I thought you were just on your tablet because you didnt have access to a computer at the time, apologies I didn't realise.
I would rather resolve a debate with proof than with words, as words can be taken out of context and exaggerated. Scans are much harder to exaggerate as everyone can clearly see it for themselves and come to a consenus.
In all honestly most fight here now adays are stomps, so scans are hardly needed in that regard. (Hurts me to say this but it really is true for the most part.)
Going by logical powerscaling he is up there with the big guys in speed (I would find it very hard to believe he is not at least in the double digts), his cutting feat I showed above is all that needs to be said in regards to this as that alone is fast enough to slice most people.
I, at no point said it showed movement speed you are putting words into my mouth now, I said it showed his speed. Which is true, except for if you believe that unless its with your feet its not speed.
The fact the he activated his Room, drew his blade, made a full horizontal cut, resheathed his blade and placed it on his back then switched the canon ball before it could even move shows fast combat and cutting speed that is far more quantifiable than Starrks feat, given that there is no visable cut either means that Starrk wont even try to dodge, he will just believe him to be taking out his sword. That is assuming that he can even keep up with the movement of the sword.
He was focused on his heart as the kick was connecting with him, did you expect him to drop it take the damage it would deal to him when it bounced off the floor and counter his kick? if anything that shows that Vice Admiral Vergo has some admirable speed of his own.
The movement that occured was him activating his room, drawing his blade to make the slash motion and then resheathing it and then moving the sheathed blades position on his person and then begin moving his hands to activate shambles. This was before the canon ball even moved from its position.
So you cant prove any of what you are saying with scans or show me quantifiable qualities in the scans I asked for?
Is there any real point in taking this debate between us any further since you can't post scans to back up your argument. I could post them myself but what is the point of the debate if I am helping out the opposition by giving them the stuff they should be giving me?
I guess we can agree to disagree, But I will maintain that he will never make it past Law.
His speed feat was activating his room, drawing his blade, making a full cut across, sheathing his blade again, moving it into his other hand and placing it on his back, then activating shambles before canon ball that was 4 feet infront of him moved an inch.
Starrk running back to Las Noches? Yeah that was impressive, can you please just for for clarity show me the time frame in which he moved from Ichigo and Kenpachi's location to Las Noches? Because if I recall correctly no time frame was given at all, it could have taken anything between 1 second to 30 minutes. You could say Orihime was shocked by the speed, you could also say that she was shocked that she was once again before Aizen.
You yourself admited in your post that Law has teleportation inside his room via switching with objects in its area of infulence, that alone gives him the advantage in speed, couple that with his cutting speed and nothing Starrk does will effect the outcome of the battle in the slightest.
Room activates Starrk begins to attack via wolves, Law switches himself with a pebble behind him slices his head and arms off and that was a good game.
Faster than Ichigo? Yes, Ichigo, contrary to what you might think is not leagues faster than everyone else in the HST.
You paint the picture that Ichigo is nigh untouchable by anyone save Kizaru while in his post dangai form, he is impressive but top tiers from One Piece (I would say Naruto too but to be honest Naruto is really the only one who can come close to or match his speed, i also would say other shows but I will keep this strictly HST) can still put him down with no effort of their part. Hell even Naruto is likely to be on par with him now.
Bleach gives the impression of insanely high speed, this is simply because Kubo refuses to draw backgrounds or give time frames. Back in reality they are not all that great. Fast? Sure, but nowhere near as fast as you claim them to be.
The only thing that seperates him in that from for the 3 now is he has the most sustanable destructive potential (By this I mean that he can consistently output strong attacks at high speed), Speed wise they are more or less all equal now.
If you can quantify Starrks speed then by all means go ahead. Hate to tell you but unlike Law who actually has something we can scale his speed from, Starrk has nothing.
Until then Room, Slice, and Shambles ends him at 4.
He got it back, and directly after he caught it he was kicked in the face. I would like to think his attention was on his heart right there. Hardly reason to downplay his fighting ability.
Starrks speed is at best, slightly slower than Ichigo who was mach 11 post-dangai. Law is calced at mach 13+ pre-timeskip, He is the faster one here.
Speed and his hax ends Starrk. He might put up a decent fight thanks to being already released, but he is not getting past Law's Room.
He wont make it past Law, given that once Room is active there is nothing Starrk can do to stop him.
There is a reason Law is considered one of the more powerful characters in the HST, and its because his "Room" is beyond broken.
@solesamurai: Slicing a frozen Tsunami in half at long range and tagging luffy with a wind blade at long range with his eyes closed. Nothing special given that he is never really pushed to his limits, even during Marineford he suffered little to no fatigue and took no damage despite fighting some powerful people.
I hope they have a good story behind it, as I feel giving him new powers just for the sake of giving him new powers seems like a rather pitiful way to end Bleach.
But I like your assessment of how he has Quincy powers now, I think it's a good place to start at least. Might also explain how Isshin can get along so well with Ryuken despite the animosity between Shinigami and Quincy, for all we know she could somehow be related to Ryuken, I think that would make a nice subplot if it happens to be true.
@taichokage: I can agree with this, she does have a high tollerance of pain and her regen is impressive by Naruto standards. But its more to do with her being subjected to constant regeneration through prolonged damage, in that she is essentially healing herself only to be destroyed again with no break between the regeneration and destruction, I can't see many people being able to stand up to this level of pain, not to mention that if she wants to hit Mei should would have to go into the acid to land an attack.
The worst kind of pain after all is extended and lengthy pain.
I also keep forgetting about her water release for some reason, which is weird because she is the Mizukage after all haha.
That proved to be rather "forceful" where she was able to force Madara into the air for Tsunade to attack him, and counter his Great Fire Destruction herself when it took a number of standard shinobi's combined efforts to stop his Great Fire Annihilation, she could likely use these to keep the Distance between them and keep her acid active to wear her down until she passed out from chakra exhaustion or just from the pain.
I agree that either could take out the other with their attacks, but I can see Mei pulling it off more often.
@taichokage: I thought the same myself, but I never found her regen to be useful against powerful prolonged AoE attacks. Mei's corssive mist was strong enough to casually melt through Susanoos ribs in a matter of seconds and her lava is also able to do the same. I believe Mei also said that she can control the potentency of her acid, so its unlikely that Tsunade's regen would be quick enough to completely negate the damage that is being delt, She also still feels pain while her regen is active, and I doubt she would be able to to remain consious having her body continusly melted by acid and lava.
Defence wise I would agree with you to some extent. Tsunade is not very durable herself, she relies on her regen to get her through a tough fight, which can be a "bad" thing in all honesty.
While I agree that all Tsunade needs to do is land one punch to end this, I would say they are evenly matched in speed and reactions and either of them could dodge the others physical attacks. Mei's attacks however have a larger range and a wider area of effect, which is why I say she has the advantage over Tsunade.
The gap of 26 feet between them also makes a big difference in my eyes.
She also is able to use Hidden Mist if im not mistaken, so Tsunade would have a hard time landing a direct hit through that.
@Killer_of_trolls: So you are suggesting that a 40 year old Adult Aang has not increased in strength at all since he beat Phoenix King Ozai, to a level that his predecessors reached in their mid to late 30's? Its safe to say that he is around their level of power given he has had 30 years to increase his strength, this should also be clear given that his mastery over the Avatar State allowed him to break free for some very powerful bending and wake him up after he was knocked unconcious.
Current/final version? Cole absorbed the powers of John White (AKA The Beast, or were you not following the story?) through the non-canon bad ending. Unless stated otherwise we should be using the strongest Canon version of Cole, the one where he is fighting The Beast during his good ending. The only difference here is that he is also granted the bad skill tree and the powers of the fire skill set.
The only way to make a fair fight in my eyes is to have them going at their all to beat their opponent, anything outside of this leaves far to much up to the imagination. You can't account for how Adult Aang will feel fighting Cole conversley you cant account for how Cole will feel fighting Aang given that both would rather not kill anyone. All he has to do is immobilize him by binding his entire body in stone to win the fight, and that is an easy way for him to win since the ground is right there and there are very few attacks that Cole can use to break through it.
He took Yakone's bending away, he cant do the same to Cole most likely, which means the only other option is to immobilize him or kill him. The fact that a relitevely low level of water causes him immense pain and virtually knocks him out, still makes this a viable way for Aang to win via flying into the air and bringing forth a small tsunami, You seem to overlook the fact that Aang can fly at very high speeds while in the Avatar State, and move at very high speeds while out of it, Much faster than Cole can in this regard.
if im not mistaken Manhattan is surrounded by water on virtually all sides, Aangs bending in his Avatar State can easily pull it to Times Square. There are also water and sewage pipes littered throughout the Square itself, there is no shortage of water near him.
Earth, Wind, Water, and Fire in one guy who can also fly? Yeah im afraid it is a far to diverse skill set for Cole to manage with just his powers.
I asume you are talking about the Ionic Storm? A simple air blast to knock him off his feet would suffice to negate the attack as an explosion that staggers me can ruin the attack. Also this attack only works on slow moving or stationary targets, neither of which Aang is...
As for Lightning Storm, that gives someone too much time to dodge, and since Cole can't control the power fully to the extent of fine tuning its movement it will be hard for him to land the attack.
Suck the life out of Aang? With Bio-Leech or Ionic Drain?
The first power which requires you to be down on the ground in a near dead state to begin with, the second only works on fodder and has no effect on boss level enemies. Lets over look this for just a second and remember how well Yakone did at immobilizing Aang out in the street and tried to kill hi... Oh wait he just went Avatar State, locked him in a prison of earth, and took his bending away, All the while sporting the troll face.
Infinite energy? Can you point this out in the OP im afraid I missed it, and In the event its not in the OP (Its not, I checked.) why are you turning it on? Its not part of the standard rule set.
You talk about Infamous as if you have never played the games before, if you had you would know that Bio-Leech and Ionic Drain only works on downed/fodder enemies and not boss level enemies, and any attack that requires use of an Ion Charge (Something which he can only use 3 times since there is no infinite energy here) can be intrupted by an attack strong enough to stagger Cole, and that The Beast was John White something which you seem to not know given this comment.
Cole absorved the beast in the end, this has nothing to do with White.
If it had nothing to do with White, The Beast would not exist at all.
John is also the one who GIVES Cole his powers, Cole does not absorb them at all, he is given them as John can't handle what must be done. His powers range from a much more advanced form of pyrokinesis, to absorbtion and distribution of energy to create conduits, high level regeneration, and increase of inhibit the powers of other conduits.
Yeah can you please tell me your experience with these games, I am starting to doubt you have played them at all. You should know all this already, but it seems you don't, or you are choosing to ignore them for some reason. I don't know why you would most of this is simple stuff or story based.
Kessler is a much better option thanks to his increased power and teleportation. And I stand by what I say in this thread, we can agree to disagree.
What I hope we can agree on is that Aang looks good sporting an Abraham Lincon beard!
@Killer_of_trolls: I dont know what you mean by this, as I stood in a pond during the final mission and near fired myself into oblivion. I mean sure he can jump out, but the fact that the water will move and follow him is going to make any kind of counter attack next to impossible.
All Aang has to do is fly straight into the air and raise the Ocean (He put out fires over an entire nation after his battle with Ozai). His speed while flying allows him to avoid every one of Coles attacks.
Coles biggest weakness is one of Aangs biggest strengths.
He could lock him in an earthen prison, then drown him, collapse the buildings around them and crush Cole like that, bring up two walls around Cole and crush him like that, open a hole beneath him and colapse it, killing him.
The Avatar State gives him too much of an advantage on Cole as he lacks any real flight of his own. Even without it, this is Adult Aang, we can only say he should be at least as powerful as Roku given his progression. And Roku was casually making trenches across an island to divert lava, and that was without the Avatar State.
Aang is far to powerful and fast for Cole to handle, water bending puts cole in a real up hill struggle to even entertain the thought of him winning.
Aangs attacking methods are FAR to diverse for him to handle.
Johns powers were never stated in the OP, so he would not have them.
Lovely that you are calling everyone a retard now.
I wasn't showinghow their abilities can't work I was stating how they could be countered
And they can only be countered in the way you described by assuming they are are bound by standard laws of physics in said form, which they are not else they would disperse and never reform.
Hence why I continue to say that your point is irrelevant in the context of this battle.
Nothing in either manga states physics is turned off dumbass hence why I'm posting this.
Nothing does state that it is turned off, but when you have people who turn into Ice, Magma, Fire, Sand, Darkness (Not a true Logia), Lightning, and Light, you need to bend the applied laws of physics to accomade the changes.
Which means that unless you have a way of harming their body directly (Haki or bypassing durability and intangibility), Destroying their logia form with a stonger element or absorbing them directly. You are not hamring them by conventional means when they are transformed.
@solesamurai: Link me to a video, topic or find me a statement in any physics journal that would refer to "cutting light" as a scientific term.
You can reflect, absorb, or transmit light. Its incorrect to call it cutting, as any physics teacher would or should have told you. What you are doing is reflecting, not cutting. I dont refer to cutting my bread as reflecting, and neither should you refer to reflecting light as cutting.
Light physics is a term
Show me a reference to "light physics" as terminology in a scientific journal, specificaly something from the glossary as that is where the terms would be along with their description (Scan would be fine). I have 7 here and not one of them has this reference. Then again, maybe Americans other parts of the world refer to it as such, if you have proof then by all means show me.
Its very misleading as one can say - "light physics", the nice, easy, and relaxed approach to physics, rather than the "physics of light", an in depth look at how light works in our universe.
One has 2 possible meanings you would have to expand on that to make it clear for others (This time I knew what you meant only because you were following it up with the physics side of things. Other might not be so lucky), the other has one single meaning.
"Lets do some light physics today kids!"
"Nice dad so we are going to take it easy today?"
"No son we are studing the physics of light"
"Ok dad lets do it!"
As apposed to
"Lets study the physics of light today kids!"
"Lets do it dad!"
But as you said its not technically wrong (but that depends on you showing me this reference.), you are just going to extra lengths when you dont have to.
fact is even with full control of their abilities they cannot nor should they be able to defy physics, it's impossible.
No shit, thats why they call if fiction. And as I said before your post hinges on the "what if?" I described, that is why your post will never be correct for use as an argument in a debate about fictional characters, because you try to disprove their abilities saying "They shouldnt be able to do that".
No shit they shouldnt be able to do it, but they are so get over it.
If you want to use physics then fine, go work out their speed and strength based on the feats they performed, dont go and try to show how their abilities cant possibly work, because the fact is this is fiction, and they can do some crazy shit because of it, and wether you think its possible or not is irrevelant because it was described like this, it was shown like this, and it will stay like this no matter how many times you want to say "They cant because it breaks the laws of physics".
Its called fiction for a reason, go and look it up.
My points are in reference to the actual battle (Dispite being sidetracked), your points are in reference as to how their abilities SHOULD work, not how they DO work.
You should also note that im not saying your post is wrong, aside from the terms you decided to use. Its correct from what I can remember of it, what im saying is that is not correct to use this in a battle as they defy the laws of physics, and show themselves doing it.
If you want to use physics as I have said before, work out their speed or destructive power. Dont try and disprove abilities they clearly have.
Did he say this in an interview? Im not one to keep up to date on interviews, I end up just coming across them from time to time. Unohana and Shunsui's are the only ones I personally want to see, the others are mainly just for clarity and closure.
I want to know what the evolution of her Manta Ray will turn out to be, I always found hers to be one of the most unique released blades next to Shunsui's.
@taichokage: Given the events of the most recent chapter, I doubt we will ever see his Bankai. Shame too, I really wanted to know what it does. But I will hold out hope that Kubo shows as many as he can before it ends, at least we will see what Zero Division can do in the next few chapters.
2 at once really stacks the odds against him, I doubt they can survive a direct confrontation with him due to his Gura Gura and Yami Yami.
Speeds around the same, its really up to their use of Hax to bring him down, they cant let him get off an attack or it will be devastating.
I would give the edge to the captains.
Lets think about that, Anything that is teleported into the sun would be burned away instantaniously among other things, simply because at that heat very few things can stay in a solid state.
His blade is the embodiment of the sun and that it contains all the heat of his flames, ego he is swinging around at the very least 15,000,000 degrees worth of heat based on his statements.
Ergo any physical matter that his sword will touch or cut will be obliterated in the blink of an eye, this happens so fast that he says:
"It neither burns nor erupts"
This is because it will no longer show a vilolent display of his flames, its rather elegant in that it is compressed heat in his sword.
Flames cause visable buring to happen, Blackend surface more flames etc.
Heat burns in a different way, a prime example of this is how you cook food or melt butter. its more clean and is not as violent in appearance. Hence why they use this type of phrase.
THIS IS WHAT HE IS REFERING TO. He has removed his fancy fire show and opted for the best way to transfer his flames power in the most direct manner.
They burn through the atomic structure so fast that he likens it to eradicating into nothingness. This is an accurate description of what his blade will do because of the immense heat it now has.
YOU DONT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE "SO FAST" PART OF THIS, AS IN SO FAST THAT EVEN YOUR BRAIN CAN'T COMPREHEND IT.
It is dissolving anything it hits so fast that one can't discern the difference between the 2.
He is describing what it will do if it hits him, and it is true because it will happen so fast that it gives the appearance like he described.
This is not so fucking hard to understand, I am trying to make you see this as plainly as I can.
so he doesn't even have to cut light just touch it which i shown how objects can touch light
Who the hell taught you physics? Light can only do a number of thing when it "hits" an object, absorbed or reflected in the case of his sword. The Photons have no mass to transfer the heat energy into so it will not effect the light particles in the slightest if it does touch it. I should also add now that Light particles are also considered waves, another reason they will be unaffected by his Bankai.
With no medium to transfer his heat into, they can't burn through it. FACT. He needs a medium to transfer his heat into for him to be able to burn or destroy things.
A Medium in this case is an object that can absorb the heat energy, ergo something with mass.
Light has none. It will be unaffected by his Bankai.
I will continue this pointless discussion with you no further, you seem to lack the intelligence to understand what these things do and how they interact with one another.
You still have to answer my question and show me scans of what I asked for.