Yusuke52 (Level 15)

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken.
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Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Younger Toguro vs. Kenshiro

@justanormalguy: Its not hard work compairing them, considering Toguro has better speed feats, better durability feats and better destructive feats than Kenshiro.

The only thing they would be equals in is strength, and that could be debatable.

He also has a demons physiology not a humans, so there is no way to tell that pressure point manipulation is even going to work, but from the way his body changed when he hit 100% over 100% I doubt he would even be able to touch them at all.

I am only going by what I have seen, and what I have see makes Toguro a faster, more durable and more destructive fighter all round.

Thats why he wins.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Super Buuhan vs. Unicron

Unicron easily takes this given that all versions of Unicron are the same, and that the only thing shown to be able to put him down for any length of time is the autobot matrix which im sure buu does not have in his possession.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Younger Toguro vs. Kenshiro

Well that just reinforces the point even more lol.

As for a different reply, well Kenshiro does have more skills than Toguro but overall Toguro is faster more powerful and more durable than Kenshiro, so by the time he manages to think so something to do he is already being demolished by Toguro.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Younger Toguro vs. Kenshiro

Well Toguro was rivaling the speed of Yusuke when he was uncuffed which would easily make him hypersonic in the speed department

As for durablity and destructive feats, he was able to withstand a near full powered Reigan that ploughed through several dozen meters of concrete and steel-like material, He also managed to stalemate Yusuke's final Reigan and the proceed to overcome it with his own power not to long after. That would put him at multi-city block level in both.

And as for strength, well he carried a massive stone floor from one side of the island to the other so we are looking at 100+ tons (But I would also say Kenshiro has around the same strength as Toguro)

Younger Toguro wins this

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Vegito + Mystic Gohan vs Dark Schneider

Oh I am well aware of his abilitys, The problem is Im rather rusty on DBZ and I realised after I made it it was a bad match up.. but I digress I will add someone else into the equation to make the teams more fair and rounded off.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Vegito + Mystic Gohan vs Dark Schneider

Yeah I thought as much myself after I made the thread. I could add in more if you think it would help (Cell, buu and so on) but I have seen alot of DBZ threads so I though I would add one of my own.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Vegito + Mystic Gohan vs Dark Schneider

*Im adding in Thanos to the fight on team 1 (Chose him because he was fresh in my mind) to even the teams up a bit. If you still feel that it is a stomp I can give prep if you feel it would help*

Both teams are Bloodlusted

No Morals

DS starts in Majin Form but can progress if he needs to. DBZ starts at max power + standard Thanos no IG.

Fight takes place on Earth

Cannon only material.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

@Sooo_Whelmed: In all honestly I didnt read more than the first line and and few words into the second, I only know that you said something about not being outmatched and then I just thought what is the point in even reading the rest. Am I here to be acknowledged by New Death? No so im not really bothered by it, besides I really only joined in a few pages ago so I can see why he didnt notice me. As for me trolling... just lol. and for someone who was ment to be ignoring me a page or 2 back you not doing a very good job at it. You will never conform to anyones ideas but your own so trying to have a debate with you is beyond pointless, the only way you can win is if you bore everyone else to the point they just give up trying to reason with you. I bet you think that Goku could beat The Saint of Killers but thats neither the time nor the place (Or maybe you have some sence in regards to that).

Ending point Flash still wins despite your claims.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

@Sooo_Whelmed: Yeah didnt bother reading more than the first line its quite predictable now anyway. You are the one who is ignoring me and yet you keep replying to my comments, if I reply you are under no obligation to reply back since you are "Ignoring" me. Oh and yeah you are out matched since you are the only person who is trying to defend Goku from this onslaught.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

@Sooo_Whelmed: Then why are you even replying to it if you failed to read it? It's not like it matters at this point anyway you are clearly outmatched by everyone else so there is no real need to debate against you anymore.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

@Sooo_Whelmed said:

I dont need to look up anything I actually read comics.

So you mentioned a non canon anime exclusive PIS scene that was meant for comedic value and used it as an argument?

Skins is calling my name.

--------------

IT = instant

Goku can destroy a planet

The dumbest thing you ever heard? lol the dumbest thing i ever heard was "it's not even proven that DBZ earth is the same as real earth. After all, the continents on that planet do not match up to Earth" Why would a baby Goku exist in the DC universe when hes not from there? Dont answer that i dont care what you have to say on it.

It is true. time travel does not alter the future..it creates different time lines.

1. Highly doubt it, or more I doubt your Knowledge of characters in the comics.

2. Am I wrong in thinking that the character you're fighting for is non-canon himself? If I am not allowed to add non-cannon material for a non-cannon character then neither should you. (Good luck trying to defend him now) Also you bring up PIS in regards to the flash so we should be able to do the same in reverse.

3. Skins is a terrible show that just lost you an credibility you already had (Abite not much to begin with)

4. Unless Goku can use it without first thinking/seeing and then processing the image in his brain where he is traveling to (Which some of the best teleporters are unable to do so I doubt Goku can) then no. The only thing Instant about that is the Teleportation itself not the time required to activate it.

5. Prove it (Im talking a scan from the manga or a clip from the anime, either or)

6. It makes perfect sence unless the planet Namek or Saiyans exists in our universe or DC's who is to say everything is the exact samedown to the size of the planets and stars. Dragon Ball could have taken place in the very distant future in wihich case the sun will have expanded making it bigger.

7. If you travel back in time to Kill someone they will be dead on that time line, If you return to it they will be dead regardless if an alternet timeline is created. The fight takes place on one timeline and if goku dies at any point in it he is dead and the match is won.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

@Fail271: That's a bit overkill like FTL should be enough haha, If one rock gently tossed in his direction hurt him I would hate to see the state he is in after this barrage!

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

@Sooo_Whelmed said:

@Yusuke52:

I stopped reading when you said you didn't have scans. Flash cant manipulate energy blast end of discussion. As i didnt bother to read the rest of your post, because i naturally assumed that you just repeated the same thing over and over again as you did in your previous post. And as i have said about your previous post you just make crap up...which means...i have nothing more to say to you. Feel free to write a 10 paragraph long reply..i assure you..i wont be reading the bulk of that either.

I never said I didnt have scans, I said what is the point in posting them if you are unable read more than 2 lines of text at anytime. And none of what I said has been made up, Infact you should go and look it up, I would do you good to know who you are trying to defend Goku against. Oh and you assumed wrong I also added in that the flash could just throw rocks at Goku at FTL speeds as they have been shown to hurt him.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

@Sooo_Whelmed: Why would I take my time posting scans of his feats if you couldnt even read 2 lines of text. You could at least have the decency to read my whole post before insulting me. Going by what you have said when other people have posted proof you just pass it off as lies or PIS and then proceed to mock them. Why are you insulting me? What have I done to hurt you? We are here to debate on a fight, meaning we post what we think and take into consideration what other people take the time to post and then make an informed desision. You just overlook the consideration and informed desision part and go straight to calling it all fake or lies and then saying Goku wins via IT then planetbust.

Wally is infinitely FTL, it has been shown more than once (He outran death itself, Something which Goku has yet to do).

He can steal the speed of objects/people he is near by removing the kenetic energy and adding it to his own, He is also able to give kenetic energy via the same way hence the reason for energy manipulation. Another showing of energy manipulation is that he forms his outfit out of the speedforce.

We have shown proof that he can run and survive in space with the assistance of the speedforce, without it he would no doubt die from asphyxiation due to the harsh enviroment (You scan shows that he cant breath which could mean that he didnt have the speedforce active at that time).

He is also able match the vibrational constant of solid objects and vibrate through them, passing his molecules through the spaces in between the atoms and molecules of the matter he's vibrating through. He is also able to transfer kenetic energy into the mater to excite it to critical mass causing it to explode.

I would go as far as to say the he could use the speed force dump on Goku considering his connection with the speed force is virtually endless and infinite and that speedsters tend to share the same powers with one another. (This was another attack that proved effective against SBP but it did require more than one speedster to combine their powers to pull it off. But this can be debatable)

He can also turn invisible but that won't be needed.

He has accelerated healing but that won't be needed also.

He can amp his strength to incredible levels and excert it through his IMP which was stated to hit with the force of a white dwarf star.

There are more but they are not needed.

Your argument relies on the basis that Goku is fast enough to be able to get into the air before his is blasted into oblivion with multiple IMP's. Not to mention his ability to steal Goku's speed or phase through him and charge him to critial mass causing him to explode. Hell Wally could just throw rocks at Goku (They have proved to be effective before against Goku going by what I have seen before) at FTL speeds and watch him squirm. A SSJ transformation of any level requires energy to maintain, Goku is going to run out sooner or later and then he just reverts into his child form and Wally begins to lay the smackdown once again with whatever his weapon of choice is.

You can argue all you want but any one of the aformentioned attacks is going to work against him.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

@Sooo_Whelmed said:

@Yusuke52:

Wally cant manipulate energy you have no idea what you're talking about. Lending and stealing speed does not equal he can stop a planet buster or other forms of energy. Your logic fails so much that i doubt i'll ever be reading an entire post from you again.

wally cant move or breath in space

Goku is FTL and can use teleportation

Zoom survived an IMP and goku has been hit with worst

You were wrong about a lot of things.

I didnt even bother reading past two sentences in every paragraph you made. It would have been a waste of time. You know nothing of what you speak. The fact that the only encouragement you receive is from someone who thinks silver surfer is a multi universal buster only solidifies how much lack faith i have in anything you have to say

goku wins Read a comic, and stop wasting your time making up crap. Hey guys goku can telport the entire earth and just have wally float in space and die... because he has been shown telporting himself and other people. Thats the type of nonsensical logic you just used in your post. =/ SHow a scan of flash manipulating energy..which you wont..because he cant..and hasn't...you just made it up...you people give me a headache with how much you dnt know about anything in regards to the characters being debated...its seriously amazing how ...whatever

i repeat goku wins

Good since I now know that you can at the least manage to read 2 lines of text before you get bored/annoyed/distracted or whatever I will shorten everything down to the key points in less than 2 lines

Ok Wally is able to manipulate Kenetic Energy in objects/people hence the reason he can steal speed and lend speed to other people or objects. For anything to move it has to contain Kenetic energy or it would just stop dead or fall on the ground hence him being able to manipulate the Kenetic energy in Goku's attack.

Through the help of the Speedforce Wally is able to run and breath in space trying to argue this point is not going to help considering he has done it multiple times and all you have to counter it is one scan of one page...

Goku is FTL? Really? I shouldnt need to explain how silly that statement is but anyway, Goku is without a doubt massively hypersonic or arguably close to light but not AT light. For you to claim that he is faster than light is just absurd. As for his Shunkan Idou, its not really classed as a speed feat since he transfers his matter from point A to point B without having to travel the set distance between said points. None the less it is fast but considering Wally can travel in time I would still say he is faster than it but feel free to debate against it.

Yes Zoom did survive the IMP, why do you keep brining that up? It was shown to be effective against a much more powerful SBP so therefore thats all we need to go by.

Well I doubt that I was wrong about alot of things, I might have been off but not by much, unless some can prove that I was wrong? I will happily condeed said point if can prove that I was wrong with a couple of pieces of evidence to back it up, I admit I do speculate and digress at times but it will always be stated after and then I will return to my original point.

Goku is able to teleport an entire celestial body because he has teleported other people? I never once stated that Goku could teleport a celestial body, you did just now... and if I did go off on a tangent you can refer to my sentence above.

You should know that DC has some of the most broken characters in Fiction, The Flash being one of them with his repertoire of powers which if he applied correctly and could fully control there would be very little people could do to stop him. But once again thats speculation and not to be taken seriously

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

@Sooo_Whelmed: Ah good I was wondering when you would get back to me. As for you destroying my post.. Just no. For your first point, The speedforce allows wally to manipulate energy in his personal space by either being close to or touching an object or person hence the reason he is able to extend the speedforce to others so they can travel at such speeds with no adverse side affects. Ki is the body's spiritual energy and therefore allows it to be manipulated by an energy manipulator such as wally. As for Goku destroying the planet and killing Wally, Highly unlikely once again since wally can just phase through the attack as the planet disolves around him and begin the speedblitz once again because he can infact run in frictionless enviroments such as space with no adverse side affects as you can see from SilverGalford's which contradicts yours but given that he has ran in space before its safe to say that he can do it with no problems at all. As for Goku not being able to get in the air... why would you even want to argue this point unless you think that Goku is somehow faster than Wally which is absurd. Unless goku can somehow suddenly become massively FTL then he has no hope of getting off the ground before Wally is in range to steal his speed and he comes crashing back down. Unless your now saying that Goku is so powerful he is immune to Wallys ability to steal kenetic energy from anything he is near and/or touches, which could only mean that you believe that Goku himself gains infinite energy the second he takes off? humor me on that one please.

Now im just going to take a moment to let you in on the theory behind the IMP. For any object with mass to travel at the speed of light is virtually impossible since the faster an object travels it gains more mass, Now as you approach the speed of light your mass would so great that it would require an infinite amount of energy to move it. Hence the name Infinite Mass Punch, because when Wally travels at the speed of light he gains infinite mass and without the speedforce (infinite energy) he would be unable to travel at that speed at all. That being said I never explained the damage output of the IMP, well when Wally envelops himself in the speed force it allows him to travel at those speeds without any adverse side effects on his body so going on that basis when he hits someone with an IMP he still has the speedforce activated because if he didnt then he would stop dead. So what he is really doing is hitting them with great mass at a high speed. Should he drop the speed force the second his hand connects with Goku he should destroy everything in that area since he is hitting with infinite force (Force=Mass x Acceleration). Think of him at that point as the unstoppable force AND the immovable object all because of his mass. With all that being said it is just spectulation I just pointed it out to show you the scale of the IMP in comparsion with all of Goku's attacks. None the less the IMP has proved effective against Superboy Prime who is leagues more durable that Goku (Unless you will argue that SSJ4 Goku can somehow beat SBP now?) so the IMP we all know and love should prove effective on its own.

As for the plane fiasco, once again PIS and therefore not applicable in a bloodlusted with no morals match.

Now for the SSJ energy problem. Am I wrong in thinking that going SSJ 1, 2 and 3 cause Goku to lose his energy at a very fast rate meaning he can only keep them active for a short time and not extended periods or endless periods of time? If that is true and since GT is a spin off based on DBZ SSJ4 should have that same weakness, unless of course you can show proof that all of this is not true and is infact lies

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

Thank you very much for the welcome, So far I have had a warmer reception here than on other fourms I have been to.

To be honest he is the main reason I decided to comment with my opinion on the fight, and I do enjoy a good debate with a troll lol. It's not that I don't like Goku, I just tend to go against him when people make him out to be leagues more powerful than he truly is. I'm just going to state my points and if he doesn't like them? So be it, I can't force him to like them lol even if they are the truth. I think I was fair in my assessment of both Goku and Wally and my view is that The Flash is going to win sooner or later based on what I have said.

Post by Yusuke52 (425 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Goku SSJ4 vs The Flash (Wally West)

Ok this is my first post so I will try and make it a good one.

Now if both Wally and Goku are both bloodlusted then they are going to use all their power and skill to win no matter what right? Now its just crazy to say that Goku is faster than Wally so im not even going to go there. That being Goku is the stronger all round out of the 2 even though Wally has the IMP, Goku is a more strength based character so it would be safer to say he is the stronger character. But even then Wally can just phase through every one of his attacks on the off chance he should happen to find himself about to get hit by one. Not only that but Goku's attacks are all based on energy (Ki etc) so even if the IMP proves ineffective against Goku Wally can just alter the path of Goku's attacks back at him via manipulating the energy within it. But in theory the IMP should hit far harder than anything Goku can throw at him since to move any object with mass at the speed of light requires infinite energy since the closer you get to said speed you gradually gain more mass until the mass of the object becomes infinite itself. Therefore the IMP should completely oblitrate anything that is unfortunate enough to be on the receving end of it.

Now I have read alot of people believe that if Goku can get in the air then he wins via planet busting. I myself doubt that Goku will manage to get in the air at all considering Wallys speed but even if he does Wally can once again phase through the attack and then Goku is screwed again since Wally can run in space.

As I see it, its more a battle of energy than of anything else. Who is going to tire out first? Well as far as im aware GTSSJ4 Goku still has the inherent weakness from DBZ that he requires alot of energy to keep SSJ4 active (Would need clarifaction on this thanks) and with that said he is going to lose it at some point if this fight drags out. Wally is another matter since he mainlines to source of the speedforce he cannot be cut off and therefore is always at maximum efficency.

So going by that basis on the speeds, strengths, energy and abilitys of both characters Wally should be able to win this, Even if its not right at the start sooner or later Wally will win since its only a matter of time before Goku just runs out of energy and cant continue the fight

Now I dont normally debate on the outcome of these things (Character vs Character or Verse vs Verse and so on) I debate on things with my friends such religion, the goverment and the likes so everything that I have said has to be taken with a grain of salt since I debate solely with logic. But none the less if you feel anything is wrong feel free to point it out, im here to learn as much as I am here to debate!

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