Don't know why you sound so upset.
Im not upset at all, dont know where you got that from. Im just tired of seeing Bleach wanked to high heavens with not so much as a clear quantifiable scan to prove any of it.
Don't know how much more specific 15,000,000 degrees can get. If you doubt a specific power statement as that, then you have to take every characted statement with a grain of salt. And this is anime not real world physics. Just because the ground wasnt gone doesnt mean he wasnt 15,000,000 degrees.
I dont know how much more specific than the Solar System you can get in regards to Cell. It works both ways my friend, unless he displays feats akin to his claims, or people around him display things that makes said claim more likely, his claims do not get passed and it makes them hyperbole until such a time as it actually does what it says on the tin. You should know how the feats or GTFO game works by now right?
The claim was that had Royd Lloyd not have had his blut vein active he would have been turned to dust instantly, the contradiction is that level of heat should have scorched the Earth he stood on among other things. Yet it did nothing to back up that claim putting its actual level into question. Bleach is not above using calcs to get a clear level of power. Every form of fiction follows this trend of calcs now to cut out all the bullshit people keep claiming, much like what you are doing with Yamamoto saying he has 15 million degrees wraped around him when nothing shown by his Bankai even suggests that is true.
Unless you are saying that the Earth he stands on is more durable than a quincy using blut vein then clearly he is talking crap. His Bankai is nowhere near these levels that he claims because if they were it would have done much more than what it displayed.
This is fact no amount of back and forth between us will change this at all. Its up to Kubo to show us the feats, if he does a bad job of doing it then the feat sucks because of it. Kishi put work into showing off his battes much better than Kubo ever has, he just puts ink on a page and calls it a battle. Kishi goes the extra mile and adds great levels of detail to show everything, something Kubo will never do as he likes to drench his work in ink making all the good fights and moments look crap as hell. But I digress, this is more me hating Kubo's Art Style, What im saying is because he puts so little detail into his work his feats come out at much lower values than most would like, unfortunately we can only work with what has been shown, so unless you have some better scans that I have not seen then he is staying at city level.
As for the bolded, I do, as does everyone else I would like to think. The only exception to this is if the claim itself actually has some ground from which to scale it. Rare case overall but I will never take a character statement above displayed feats unless its so obvious that I have no reason to disbelieve it until something comes up that puts it into question. Nothing about his Bankai gave the impression of 15 million degrees and the feats he displayed matched this. No one else in his verse has ever displayed anything even remotely close to his suspossed 15 million degrees so tell me why I should believe something that has no ground to stand on what so ever?
I dont need character statements to boost Hashirama and Madara, they have done more than enough on screen to warrent these levels of power. You on the other hand have to rely on Yamamoto's claims in order for you to put him above the 2 despite myself and many other people saying that its an obvious hyperbole given nothing it displayed puts it even close to that level.
Kizaru should cause earthly damage when he travels at light speed so I guess he isnt a light man.
The logic used here is so bad that I honestly dont know what to say.
You know very little about science in this regard clearly as this would only happen if he retains his mass while in light form, which he does not. Which makes this false and still alows for calcs to be used. This is of course assuming that you were joking around about "light" moving at "lightspeed" inside the Earths atmosphere would cause actual damage to the Earth. I think you need to go back and retake science if you think light causes damage to the ground when it enters the Earths atmosphere.
Speaking for the rest of fiction this is ommited if its clear they are infact moving at lightspeed and nothing is happening if something is happening then the feat remains valid none the less. Fiction or not, unless otherwise stated all of our values apply to a fictional verse and can be quantified feats as such, you can use any example you want to try and dispute this but it will still stand none the less.
Only objects with mass traveling at lightspeed would cause damage to or planet, when Kizaru turns into light, HE TURNS INTO LIGHT. He becomes photons more or less and that is how Yata no Kagami works.
If you keep making silly claims like this then you will destroy your argument for me. Less work for me I guess but I digress.
And they don't need to Chant kido, nor could Hashirama catch the flying speedsters with his Mokuton
They will need to chant to get the levels of power required to even so much as slow them down. And catch flying speedsters? You act like mach 23 makes a huge difference against a mach 20 scaled fighter with precog, Yamamoto will go straight to Bankai in a bloodlusted form, and unless you saw something I didn't in the manga this is based around CQC, he will fight on the ground not in the air. Tell me again how reacting to a mach 30 Bijuu Bomb will somehow not give him the reaction time needed to track and counter a mach 23 fighter?
Even if he does get into the air what exactly is he going to do to evade and stop the Guan Yin, a construct that dwarfed the Mountains in the area and Kurama? He gets slapped back into the ground and the cycle repeats, going into the air is pointless for someone who when using his strongest form fights in CQC. And good luck on him winning a sword fight with Susanoo, a single swing from that and its Juhabach's sword all over again except this time his body is going to be torn to pieces.
This leaves Aizen and his 7 megaton attacks to try and break through their defence. at which point susanoo cuts him down too.
but again he has no defense for some kido.
Aside from a wall of wood cloaked in Susanoo both of which were able to tank a point blank 4 gigaton level explosion with no effort at all? Gonna have to try a bit harder than that. What Kido can either of them use that bypasses durability again? Thats right none what so ever, so trying to use that as an "feat" is going to leave your argument rather thin. Kido is not as hax and unblockable as you like to think it is.
And Ichigo broke Kurohitsugi because he is physically more powerful than anyone in the HST has shown and beacuse he was a being beyond Aizen's dimension.
You base this "strength" off a single scan that has nothing to quantify? Good luck with that one.
Bleach wank at its finest, using an unquantifable feat that has absolutely nothing to go on, and claims that it puts him above everyone else in the HST. If you even think that for a second Ichigo is anywhere near top tier One Piece or Naruto levels in strength then you need to consider actually reading through Naruto and One Piece again. Both have multiple feats that say otherwise and are far more quantifiable than breaking out of a black box with no defined levels of power other than a mentally unstable Aizen claiming "lawl gravity torrent" without giving a value for it. Hate to tell you but all mass and gravity distorts space and time to some degree so the gravity inside that box for all we know is the same as the Earths, absurd I know but unless you have something that says different the possibility remains.
Quantify this feat if you are so sure its above anything ever displayed in the HST strength wise other than just claiming it is because of "lawl statements". You clearly know how durable the walls of Kurohitsugi are if you make this claim, would I be correct? I thought you would have learned by now that this shit aint going to work with me, I want feats so given me some quantifiable feats to work with otherwise its about as durable as glass unless you can show otherwise.
The burden of proof is on you, I have displayed more than enough relevant information and scans to put them above Aizen and Yamamoto. Its your job to show me what they can do with clear scans and calcs that showcase their power.
You are better off using his shockwaves and blocking Aizens blade rather than this Black Box of hyperbole and unquantifiable claims, because you wont get too far using that.
Garp and Naruto displayed strength well above Ichigo with his cannon ball feat and Naruto kicking away those Bijuu Dama with absolute ease not to mention sheer virtue of size of his Kurama Mode alone dictates that his physical attacks should be around town level, well beyond the best Bleach has to offer so far in the strength department. Top tiers in Naruto and One Piece have feats of strength that make Bleach look like a child.
Madara's Susanoo was strong enough to cleave the tops of multiple mountains with a single swing and wreck the land around the base of his Susanoo, this alone puts his Susanoo above Ichigo in strength. The Wood Golem also grabbed a Bijuu Bomb and caught Madara's sword swing which also gives it strength feats beyond Bleach.
So there goes him being the strongest person in the HST by miles. Might need to rethink that, before you make such an absurd claim again.
Literally. His reiatsu could not be felt because Ichigo was too far above him.
I read the manga, and this means nothing at all in regards to this battle. Feats are better than vague energy readings from a mentally unstable Aizen.
And I don't know what these calcs are saying but the biju bombs minus the Jubi have destroyed single mountains not islands unless you are talking very small islands.
These calcs are saying what a calc generally says. It calculates the feat based on resonable scaling so we can get an actual value and not go based on assumptions like you are doing with Yamamoto.
They have the reaction feat from Hashirama under consideration right now and should that be accepted, any chance you had of claiming they have the speed advantage is lost and most top tiers will get a speed boost beyond Bleach levels. Lets see how this plays out anyway.
Island level starts at 1 gigaton and upwards, its still a great jump beyond city level where Yamamoto is currently at and unless he gets island level energy output he is going to fair about as well as part one Naruto in breaking through the Wood Golem or Susanoo. Which is not at all, or at the very least not without alot of effort on his part.
You have a little look on there and you will see that Naruto and Bee's Combined Bijuu Bomb is calced at 2.6 Teratons. Now I am downplaying to a Gigaton value on purpose as I see no reason to say that Kurama is able to dish out 1.3 teraton level attacks in its prime under the control of a bloodlusted Madara with an intent to kill... Joking aside I do this because every other Bijuu Bomb has been around 4 - 6 Gigatons and I see no reason to amp this to a teraton level feat without a proper calc proving it.
The one below that is the Decide arc calcs for Fragor, Ichigos Shockwave and his Mugetsu. Funny how I missed this revision and I have been putting them at levels they are no longer at going by the revised calcs. Ah well its been corrected now. Rather pathetic all in all but there you have it, your beloved Ichigo is quite a bit below what you thought he was. Hardly impressive at all given he must sacrifice all his energy to do his best attack (I see a trend forming in Bleach were to get the best damage output they have to more or less kill themselves or purge their energy in the process). I hope we see something much better from him in the weeks to come but I dont hold out much hope for a quantifable feat rather than the ink spills Kubo likes to give us and call "art". But once again I digress, these feats could change if someone decided to recalc them in which case I will post the new link but they wont change much. Bleach calcs never do.
Below that are the tanking feats from Naruto with levels applied to them where needed. Bee tanking his own Bijuu bomb calced at 4+ gigatons, Kurama is more than able to equal that level of power in his prime, making Hashirama's Wood Golem tanking said attack viable here and not open for discussion until you can boost Yamamoto into the gigaton level output.
The last one is interesting as this is ongoing and should it pass most of Naruto is likely going to get a lovely boost from it, unlikely that it will but all the same its a fun calc none the less. Not much point in me posting it but I thought it was a nice addition.
You will also see there that Aizen is right at the bottom there with his 7 mt fragor . Now Yamamoto's Bankai is at 330 odd megatons per second (In this range, not above 400 thats for sure) calc wise. What we know is that around half the energy of an explosion is heat based, we also know that the mountain ranges they destroyed were not just blasted apart but vaporised by the heat of the blast itself. So unless Yamamoto is able to output 2 gigatons worth of heat energy at a minimum, he is not breaking through something that tanked that level of heat casually, for you to continually deny this must mean that you can quantify his Bankai to this level, so by all means go right ahead and do so and stop wasting time with pointless statements from Yamamoto. No offence intended I would just rather get a clear and concise answer from you rather than read the same 15 million degree Bankai argument over and over again when everything it displayed contradicts his statement. The sooner you show me some Gigaton level feats from him, the sooner we can end this debate.
As it stands right now they are both getting slapped into the ground with mid difficulty at the most.