Yusuke52 (Level 16)

Cleaning up the last 200 odd Toriko images and then I will move on to Korras..
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Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » itachi vs ichigo and luffy

@tronboy: And I now direct you to my previous post disputing that "Hotter than the sun" claim.

As for Amaterasu, at no point did it show any indication that the black flames were as hot as the sun, because if they were Karin would be dead and A would be dead too given how long they were subject to the "suns heat". So that is untrue until its proven otherwise (More proof than Itachi's statement about it if you want to contradict the point please).

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » itachi vs ichigo and luffy

@tronboy said:

your correct no move luffy and ichigo could do could affect susanoo and that the fact that the amateratsu is as hot as the sun and as soon as he gazzes tat you your caught in flames plus the izanami which could not be affected by the 5 senses

Tsunade nearly cracked a Prime Madara's Susanoo with little more than strength, Luffy and Ichigo are much more powerful than she could ever hope to be. And while Itachi's sussano did block a jutsu like Kirin (Apparent town buster, could be much less never checked) The combined attacks from both Ichigo and Luffy, augmented with their superior speed and strength from their peak versions, not to mention destructive feats, they should have little difficulty breaking through susanoo.

As for Amaterasu, at no point did it show any indication that the black flames were as hot as the sun, because if they were Karin would be dead and A would be dead too given how long they were subject to the "suns heat". So that is untrue until its proven otherwise (More proof than Itachi's statement about it if you want to contradict the point please).

And as for Izanami, what do you even mean with that last line? That makes no sense at all. What I think you ment to say was "Izanami is capable of affecting an opponent regardless of their five senses." While that is more than likely true, what does it even matter? We have yet to see what the jutsu can do, so until the next chapter comes out its little more than a cool named jutsu said by none other than Dr. Snakes brother.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » naruto vs ichigo vs luffy

@One_Piece_God: Yeah I know, but that was just far too silly to leave it there untouched.

@taichokage: And are you replying to me or tronboy?

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » itachi vs ichigo and luffy

@Destinyheroknight: I would agree with you given that he wants a normal Itachi and not an immortal one.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » itachi vs ichigo and luffy

@tronboy: You said they are at their peak, currently Itachi is at his strongest in his Edo Form, which would make that his peak. If you want you can say, Healthy Itachi No Edo in the rules. Which makes this a stomp in favor of Team 2, until I see what Izanami does.

And as far as Izanami goes, What he said it does and what it will show on panel could be VERY different. You need to wake up are read the manga yourself, because your explanation of what Itachi said is so far off it's not even funny.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » naruto vs ichigo vs luffy

@tronboy said:

naruto could recatch his rasenshuriken if some one dodges it and your wrong naruto faster because the sharigan sees light speed and can not see naruto

Ok so let me get this straight...

You believe that Haku was light speed (When it was obvious Hyperbole), Which is what you I assume you are using to base this off.

Which inadvertently makes Lee faster than light, because Sasuke's Unevolved Sharingan couldn't keep up with him at all.

Which also makes Killer Bee's MOVEMENTS faster than light+ because he couldn't keep track of his movements at all with an Evolved Sharingan.

And the Pièce de résistance, This would make Naruto FTL++ or Massively FTL, because he is MUCH faster than the others...

Just going to let that sink in there, and see if you realise how idiotic you sound with that statement.

Serious question, Do you really believe this?

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » itachi vs ichigo and luffy

If they are at their peak then that would mean that this is Edo Itachi (Perfect eyesight, Strong body with no illness to hinder him etc), which would make this spite since they cant kill him no matter what they do.

Besides I am interested see what Izanami does before I make a full desision, but if it is Edo Itachi, then yes he wins.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » naruto vs ichigo vs luffy

@tronboy said:

naruto could kill ichigo for shore with rasenshuriken

i do u no for shore rasenshuriken attacks on a cellular level naruto wins please admitt

Explain how Ichigo would allow himself to be caught up in this attack, remember now that he is MUCH faster than Naruto.

Yes it does attack on a cellular level, but how would he hit a much faster opponent with it? Oh and its SURE not SHORE... Sorry for the correction, but I was strangely annoyed by that. How did you get them mixed up in the first place.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » Father (FMA Brotherhood) vs Tobi (Naruto)

@MrASSH0LE: Thats good. And looking back though this, Father wins by the majority vote. Thank you and goodnight I have a book to finish.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » Father (FMA Brotherhood) vs Tobi (Naruto)

@MrASSH0LE: Ok I will apoligise before hand for this post because I see the need to hammer this into your head quite hard now.

have shown you 2 sources demonstrating what is the 6 paths yet you keep on ignoring you are the one being hard-headed.You haven't done anything to refute them.Plus given the fact that the rinnegan allows control of the bodies I could just as easily say that this is another case of he has the rinnegan "Oh but he can't use it".

Either refute it or concede the point .

I know what the fucking 6 paths are, The Rinne part of the dojutsu is the cycle of reincarnation or rebirth in several Indian religions. This is reflected in the names of all Six Paths of Pain, which share the names with Samsaric realms of reincarnation.

Human Path

Preta Path

Asura Path

Naraka Path

Animal Path

Deva Path

Each of pains bodys used ONE path, Madara said when we first seen him with his 6 bodys, He would have prefered stronger hosts for his 6 PATHS (something along those lines refering to his 6 hosts).

These are the 6 PATHS the OP is refering to since the rinnegan ONLY gives you access to their jutsu why would he give him the Rinnegan, AND THEN TAKE AWAY THEIR FUCKING POWERS FROM HIM??????

And once again why he is on his own. NO OTHER HELP, SO NO BIJU DAMA!

You're saying a spike moving to impale Tobi wouldn't move?Because that's the only way your plan works and I have already explained to you why Tobi is faster then Father he could keep up with Yondaime the fastest character in the series and could react Gai's kick showing his reaction time.

I am not sure but wouldn't that require him to know what the mask is? And the closest to transmuting an enemy Father did was when Scar tried to deconstruct him and he replied in similar fashion.... oh wait Scar a super human with supersonic reaction AVOIDED it and there was the time where he tried to turn Ed and the other in to stones but that still required them being at close range.

Finally, you have conceded the fact that Tobi is the fastest of the two hence if anybody 's going to get hit with an attack first it's Father , he's the one who realistically couldn't keep up.Yet you keep saying Tobi's gonna get caught in Father's attacks.

Im saying that the sharingan can only track movement of what IT SEES, did you even read that line? He will hardly be looking at the ground now will he? The fact Father wont move at all and transmutes the ground will not tell him the attack is coming unless Tobi now has precog?

No since he can bypass the law of equivalevent exchange he should be able to do it easily.

The only reason Father didnt go on an all out rampage, was the same reason why Flash will never blitz all his enemys the second he sees them, The plot demanded him otherwise. Frankly if they didnt have Hoinheim and there was no plot to say otherwise Father would have killed them all right there and then, with no remorse and in the span of a few minutes, because that is how powerful he is, and while he might no be as fast as Tobi is, WHY THE HELL WOULD HE NEED TO BE WHEN HE IS AS STRONG AS HE IS?

He held the sun in the palm of his had for god sake, Tob is a long shot off EVER doing something as powerful as that, Given his only long Range attack is Shrinra Tensei, and everything else is short range, too long to cast, or requires him to make direct contact with Father,

I conceded? No I never, to imply that would mean I said that Father was faster in the first place, so that is terrible misuse of that word by you. I said since the start that while Tobi is faster than the alchemists, most have greater feats of destruction to their name.

Given that the Third form of Father was healing every attack inflicted upon him, how is Shinra Tensei going to kill him? He can only use it every 5 seconds, at which point father could heal himself and then Tobi will be forced to do so again, and again and again until he is out of Energy, Chakra and Father still has a comfortable 9,000,000 souls left, having not attacked or tried to defend himself, and only healed through Tobis greatest attack each time it was used.

Oh I know he will BFR him now since well that is instant anyway and he has no chance to escape that before he is absorbe... Oh wait it takes a few seconds for Tobi to do that, unless the subject is willing. A few seconds of immobility and tangibility, and the fact that he has to be in close proximity to the thing he is absorbing, or even TOUCHING for that matter, for a guy who can transmute any object nearby without moving, into any other object without moving... Yeah I can see him falling prey to that one now. Lets not even bring the Gate into this since I now believe he wount even need it to escape.

Well then your whole point falls apart.If you say Tobi could not be beaten by those alchemists and those alchemists were able to make Father run out of souls to contain God well then Tobi should that is just logical.

You say the only way they had to defeat him was Greed, that is false the reason Father was unstable was because he had used up his power and was no longer able to contain God.If Greed hadn't done what he did in a worst case scenario he(Father) would die later in a best case one he would lose God and revert back to his old self.

Oh my, just oh my. the more we get into this the more I think you never finished FMA, he had 5,000,000 souls left when he used up the souls of amestris. He had 5,000,000 souls left when greed carbonized his skin, He had 5,000,000 souls left when he was punched in the chest by Ed.

THAT is the reason he went unstable because Ed allowed the souls of Xerxes to escape. Jesus at least check the wiki.

Worst case senario if Greed didnt do that, Father would be killing everyone else anyway since that ALLOWED them the victory, nothing else. In the best case senairo Father would have killed them, absorbed their souls and replenished his PS.

You are mistaken .

The scans states that they can't use them ( Kakashi says it and Tobi validates it) .Yes, because of Tobi not letting them but that isn't really an issue .Whether or not they are doing it out of lack of power or out lack of envy they still technically aren't using the paths.

Listen you're trying to argue that Father who has inferior destructive capacity to Tobi who has either Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei or Six jinchurrikis granting destruction between multi-mountain and town level.Inferior speed , with Tobi fighting hyper-sonic characters and Father possessing supersonic reaction time.

You're only argument at this point is transmutation which requires Tobi to stand close to Father which any person with knowledge would not do.Even Scar who is less fast then Tobi was able to avoid transmutation.

No offence my friend, but this is ridiculous at this point our debate is about whether Tobi has jinchuurikis which would allow him to spam bijuu dama or just produce one bijuu dama with multi-mountain level destruction or if he has Shinra tensei which would destroy the city .On top of that if we take you 're belief that he can use the Pain abilities but not the bodies he can (thanks to the energy equivalence rule) block city block level attacks with absorption which is the most Father demonstrated without preparation.

Umm I dont know how to tell you this but... No. Kakashi say they cant use them then GAI says "Tobi will not want to waste his Chakra using said jutsu since they knew how to counter them." Kakashi then said that "It must take alot of chakra controling 6 jinchuriki at once with his eyes "(Validating this point) not saying to Gai "no he cant use them" just saying "it must take alot of chakra to control them". To which Tobi responds with you have good eyes Kakashi (Infering to his deduction that it requires alot of chakra to control them, not that they cant use the paths).

Are you just seeing things the way you want to see them, or did you really think thats what happened? If the latter I think Shounen manga might be a little to complicated for you, It was hard to understand all that text after all.

Just adding these in since it is a nice profile of the 2 characters at hand. So you can see for yourself what Father is able to destroy and on what scale. I would also like to apoligise for the words used against you, I have no problems with you at all. I even like you, you seem like a cool guy and I have no problem with that. I was just getting angry about having to repeat the same thing like 5 times now, so dont take what I said here as offence, I used it to highlight my points so as they would stick out.

How about we agree to disagree on this, and let the majority vote commence? Check out the 2 profiles below all the same, they might change how you view Father.

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Tobi

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Father

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » Father (FMA Brotherhood) vs Tobi (Naruto)

@MrASSH0LE: Are you deliberately being hard headed, or did I not explain this simply enough? (Sorry if that is a bit rude, I just dont enjoy having to reapeat something more than once)

Tobi w/ Sharingan and Rinnegan no Six Paths

That CLEARLY means that he does not have the 6 bodys he used to host his 6 paths, since the Rinnegan itself allows the use of the 6 paths why then would he give him the rinnegan and then say "Oh but he cant use it". Its not that hard to understand, and once again why he will never use the Biju Dama against Father.

You're saying the guy with the hypersonic reaction time will be impaled that way?

When last I checked the Sharingan can only track movements of what it can see, and Father can transmute without moving at ALL. Besides Tobi will not be looking at the ground if his opponent is right in front of him now is he? Hence why he will be stabbed in the chest by the earth beneath him. If you would rather, he could transmute his mask to impale his face instead?

The second he tries to attack he will be transmuted into a chair, Father fired a casual blast that nearly wiped out all of Central HQ, not to mention he can survive molecular deconstruction. NOTHING Tobi can do will harm Father at all. Given that to soul suck he has to touch him which would lead to his instant deconstruction. What will animal path do for him? He has only ever shown the ability to summon Kurama and nothing else so what good will that do him?

No, before he died they said he could not contain the stone and if Tobi was able to get as close to Father he could BFR him.

And that is different from what I said how? I said he lost the remaining souls in his PS through the method I described, which is WHY he became unstable. I already mentioned the Gate like 3 times now, Father is more than able to return to the battlefield with it so once again, BFR will not work.

The Shinra tensei as we know levels cities and the chibaku tensei levels surpasses mountains in size.

And with prep Father came close to destroying a country... whats your point. I already said that if he trys to use either he will transmuted, given the length of time it takes to use Chibaku Tensei he will be dead before it takes effect. His only viable attack is Shinra Tensei (And he has not even used it yet), given that it is the strongest attack he can use currently. And once again he has to become Tangible to use it, which would once again let Father transmute him. Besides A Shinra Tensei on Town scale would leave him weak and unable to use it which would put him at an even bigger disadvantage

He goes to use Chibaku Tensei, suddenly he has been transmuted into a statue. He trys to Shinra Tensei, suddenly he has been turned into a chair. As for his speed, it wont matter since any direct contact with Father would lead to his deconstruction, and Fathers attacks would not need travel time so they would be almost impossible to avoid unless you knew they were coming.

In essence Tobi cant attack at all, or he will be subject to his transmutation. Or and I only say this because this would be the easiest method, he could just transmute the air into methane which would leave Tobi screwed if he tried to attack, since he would need to breath and all of a sudden he cant.

And in regards to Tobi being weak when compaired to state alchemists, I never said he was. You are the one who is saying that, not me. Was it implied by me? No, I just said that it took Greed with his power of carbonization to weaken him, to enable Ed to punch a hole through his chest and cause him to lose his souls and become unstable. Unless Tobi has a way to get rid of 1,000,000 souls, without touching him and only going tangible for a select few seconds at a time, Then Father will kill him. His Intangibility is only going to make him last longer. He has nothing that can put Father down, and while Tobi does have the speed advantage it will not do much since he does not have the destructive power to make it worth while, or the durability to survive any of his attacks, let alone deconstruction without the use of Izanagi, which he can only use once mind you. Unless tobi can deal with Fathers PS then he is unable to win, and given that Tobi's strongest attack is Shinra Tensei he would not need much to defend himself since his forcefields were tanking bullets, missiles and mustangs flame alchemy at the same time. While they might not stand up to a Shinra Tensei they could tank a good portion of the force from the attack. And then you have the 5 second rule leaving him open to transmutation directly after the attack. And that is only if he managed to get the attack off before Father turned him into gold.

As for the gate Father can open the gate without needing to transmute a country he only done that because he needed to absord God (Or the truth if you will), hell Ed only tried to bring his mother back and he opened the gate. Given that Father has 1,000,000 souls im more than certain he can open the Gate if he wished. As for the Truth part of it, The gate shows you the Truth of what you wish to see, and if this is Fathers Third form then he absorbed the Eye of God which is a seemingly omnipotent being that exists on the other side of the gate. Going by that im sure he will find a way out with 1,000,000 souls at his disposal.

Edit: Unless im mistaken your point about the Jinchuriki's were that they couldnt use the Paths. And that scan just said that Tobi didnt want to waste the chakra on the Paths Jutsu, meaning that they could he just didnt want to use them.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » Father (FMA Brotherhood) vs Tobi (Naruto)

@MrASSH0LE: The 6 Paths are his other 6 bodys, he does not have them. Thats why Nagato was called the 6 Paths of Pain, he had 6 bodys each representing a different path. Hence why there will be no Biju Dama here. Or in laymans terms the only reason he can use the Biju Dama is because he used the bodys of Jinchuriki as his 6 paths, with out them he cant use it at all. He would still have be able to use the standard rinnegan powers, like Shinra Tensei and whatnot.

Tobi will be waiting a very long time for him to run out of power, need I remind you that he was fighting off an army of people when he was losing that number of souls. And Tobi's greatest feat of destruction is that of building level, without his 6 paths. Not to mention his durability is around the same. His attacks will make no significant change to his PS at all. Now while he does have the Rinnegan, the only real difference it could make to the combat side of this is Shinra Tensei, but once again he would need to be tangible to use it which would put him at the mercy of Father again. The only way they managed to kill him was Greed altering his skin to a more brittle substance and then Ed punched a hole through his chest allowing the Xerxesian Souls to escape. Unless tobi can replicate that I cant see him doing any damage to Father.

Father would sacrifice one or more of the souls in his PS to open the gate and either use it for transportation, or to learn the truth behind Tobi's dimension and a way to escape.

Strange, I watched the 2003 and version at least 3 times I dont remember him saying that (Could have just forgot), Ah well I can alter it. The PS allows him to bypass the laws of equivalence, allowing him to transmute any substance into another substance as long as he has the souls to do so. Air is a substance and is suceptiable to this.

Or this (pulled this off the wiki, since I thought it was worded better there) (And wow why did I not just say this in the first place lol)

Made of "pyrotex/ignition cloth" and embroidered with unique flame alchemy transmutation circles, these gloves create a spark when Roy rubs his fingers together and allow him to manipulate the concentration of oxygen in the air surrounding his target, raising its density to a level at which it becomes a volatile and flammable oxidizer, and creating narrow pathways of oxygen through which he can direct the ensuing flame that blossoms from the spark. The 'snap' sound is caused by the instantaneous speed at which the highly concentrated gases and sparks react together and pop (not his fingers actually 'snapping', to common belief.)

He has summoned Kurama, that much is true but, as we saw from the real Madara he cannot summon it unless its under his control, which it is not unless the OP allows it to be. Besides by the time his hand hits the ground to summon it, he would be impaled through the chest by the earth, which Father just transmuted.

Also some of the alchemists in FMA are above Tobi in some areas, given that he is not very destructive or durable. But he does beat them in speed and stamina of course.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » Father (FMA Brotherhood) vs Tobi (Naruto)

@MrASSH0LE: If you had read the rules of the match you would know this is Tobi on his own, there are no others fighting with him. The BFR wont work since Father could easily just use the Gate to get back ala PS.

Im not suggesting he can survive its power, I am saying a Biju Dama from a non Jinchuriki like Tobi is going to be difficult for him to create...

Mustang is able to alter the heat of the air in order to make girls pass out so he can run to their aid, more or less his chat up line. I am sure that the founder of modern alchemy is able to do the same.

Eventually, yes he would run out of souls. Against Tobi? Not a chance in hell. At most you could argue for a tie, but his power puts him far above the whole HST, given the fact that Tobi has nothing that can kill him, put him down, immobilize him or harm him in any fashion.

And why bring up no-limit fallacy? You have no reason to bring that up in conjunction with a Biju Dama since Tobi is unable to use them... so yeah what was the point of it?

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » Father (FMA Brotherhood) vs Tobi (Naruto)

@MrASSH0LE: Avoiding his attacks is easier said than done, given that he is able to transmute all the air in the vicinity into a deadly substance combined with that fact that he can only remain intangible for up to 5 mins, leaves him unable to take any action against Father without getting himself killed one way or another. And his reaction time is not really a factor given that he has close to 1,000,000 souls in his PS, which would require him to die 1,000,000 times to be killed for good, and coupled with that fact the air is now a deadly substance of your choice, Tobi would only be killing himself anytime he wanted to attack Father.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Ichigo Kurosaki » Is the Final Getsuga Tensho a technique or a mode?

Its widely regarded as a technique, more specificaly its his Zanpakutos technique in which Ichigo becomes the Getsuga itself, hence the wardrobe upgrade and long hair. Also given that it only enables him to use Mugetsu and nothing more it is safe to say that both Post Dangai and FGT Ichigo are the same stat wise, so both are Ichigos "Peak". Even Zangetsu refered to it as a technique when he was fighting Ichigo.

While it does give the user a new form (Cloaked in black raitsu) it only enables them to use the ultimate attack Mugetsu, and showed no augmentation to any of the wielders stats.

So Post Dangai would be Ichigo at his peak, and if he feels the need to he can use the FGT and enable himself to use Mugetsu, since the only difference between the 2 is that one allows him to use Mugetsu (A literal One Shot Attack), and the other does not.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » Father (FMA Brotherhood) vs Tobi (Naruto)

Fathers power puts him above the whole HST, Tobi included.

He is able to survive molecular deconstruction, and he is able to transmute anything that touches his body, or without moving for that matter. Not to mention he has over half a million souls in his philosophers stone. He will make Tobi his personal slave a few seconds into this fight, that or just add him to the stone.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » naruto vs ichigo vs luffy

@YouFinished: Jesus I ask you to explain Neptune and you explain how Mercury and Venus were formed? They are the only planets that would have the possiblity of being formed in that way due to their distance from the sun every planet past them is to far. Like I said the Sun has no play in how our planets are formed because its heat is not great enough given the distance WE are let alone the the planets past us. Once Large clumps of rock colide in space, and IF they get caught and pulled into another Star or Planets orbit then they will slowly pull passing rocks by. Build up over 1000's if not millions of years. The only heat used to help our planet form is from the initial impact of the 2 coliding rocks, where you got this idea that the suns heat is great enough at this distance to help melt rock is beyond me, never mind the other planets past us. Our planet, Earth is only here because of luck, 2 rocks managed to colide and then get caught in orbit around the sun, not too far from it and not to close to it, just the right distance so we could form over millions of years.

And I also see you havent listening in Geography because if you had you would know that Coal is a sedimentary rock type, making it a... *sigh* "A rock", Forget what its made of, its classification is a rock, and scientifically its a rock and geologicaly its ... a rock, no big speech from you will change this. Which I say once again... ... ... "How does that make my point moot?" I mean like I said befo... wow I have some serious deja vu so if you want to know what said before just look back becasue this will be the 3rd time I will have posted this now.

the + is an unspecified amount of destructive power greater than that of Town level but less than that of Mountain/City. Can you show me anything dispute this point? But whatever I said before it really shant matter anyway, since the fact that they both cause circular explosions, the fact they they are long range attacks and they fact that they have to be formed before they are fired makes they a good comparision for one another, This has nothing to do with their destructive potential.

Wow I never really want to post scans to prove someone wrong unless I have to but fine.

From the start of the formation of the Chibaku Tensei until naruto is physicaly caught in the main body, IN DESCENDING ORDER.

Ok as we can see in the 2nd to last image and in the last image, the gradient of the curve of the sphere is far to great at that point to constitute a good deep burial in the Jutsu and in the 2nd to last/last image we see that naruto was avoiding more debris until he was ultimately caught in the rock, and as we can see from the first few images naruto was not clearly affected by the gravity pull because he himself was not pulled or lifted towards the sphere, only the surrounding enviroment. So what we can gather from this is that the gravity pull got weaker over time until the sphere had formed fully (Last image), At which point Pain was holding the entire creation in place with, either his own power, or keeping a ligher gravity well in place to keep it suspended in the air. You can see naruto is not significantly affected by the gravity, which you claimed was acting down upon him making you point in that regard void.

As for the few hundred meters part, We can clearly see that the gradiant of the curve of the sphere in the last image is one of a near fully formed Chibaku Tensei, and Naruto was only trapped inside it on the 2nd to last panel on the last page making the last panel something that happened directly after when Naruto was contained, A fully formed Chibaku Tensei. As I have said so far it had more or less finished lifting and pulling debris into the sphere by the time Naruto was buried under in, and that once again is where I get 100 or less meters from. And I hate to repeat myself for the third time now but, at most he would have a hills level of soil and rock on him... not a mountains worth.

Ok and to finish off. The example is no different at all, if sufficent damage is done to a target not giving him time to repair the damage, subsequent attacks will weaken the target until it has been breached or destroyed. Same thing with Ichigo, while his Cloak will outright stand the blast of a mountain buster, it will take damage from his attacks. He will be attacking it so fast that it will have little time to react and repair the damage, via pouring more chakra into the cloak and then hardening it. Kurama will think he is being attacked from all sides at once, and while Ichigo will not be able to break through with his initial attack, subsequent attacks will keep denting him until he breaks through.

You make out like no matter how many ninja are attacking that cloak unless they have an attack capable of busting mountains in their midst then they will not break through AT ALL, no matter how many times they attack and no matter how power their attacks are, they will not break through at all, in fact they will not even dent the thing. That is just horrible judgement on you part, Ichigo's initial attack will weaken it, not destroy it, the subsequent attacks on the weakened area will destroy it since it has no time to repair given the speed of Ichigos attacks.

Not to mention you have yet to say how Naruto will trump Ichigo in a CQB situation given that Ichigo is more skilled at that type of confrontation and has fought enemies as large as the Cloak itself.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » naruto vs ichigo vs luffy

@sickVisionz said:

I keep seeing Pain's Chibaku Tensei brought up as an example that Naruto can tank mountain level attacks. This simply isn't what happened. Naruto was never in the center of that attack. It was already massive once he made contact with it and he was hit with hills or small mountains that had been reduced to small boulders. His feat there isn't really a good example of his durability, unless you you're talking about boulderized hills.

Ichigo, especially hollow Ichigo is a going to be a tough competitor if only because we have yet to see an upper limit to his power. He's never really been attacked during a fight. Ulquiorra was god mode Espada and was getting tossed around left and right and never even landed a hit on Ichigo and had his attacks either obliterated in a counter or were tanked. FGT Ichigo ate an attack that seemed to have a similar destructive force as Ulqu's arrows and it burned up his skin. At least with that we can say that an attack of that calibur does x damage (which was just burnt skin). Hollow Ichigo doesn't really have any examples of taking damage. He just beats everyone with ease and only goes away when Ichigo wills him to go away. Because of this, there's no telling if a Bijuu bomb would destroy him or if he could tank it with his bare hands.

Also, Ichigo is fast. So fast that it looks like he's teleporting when he moves and fast enough to disorient Ulquiorra during his fight. I'm not sure why he would even allow himself to get hit by a bijuu bomb to begin with.

My point exactly, Thank you.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » naruto vs ichigo vs luffy

@YouFinished: I never said that you said he was incase at the center I said "You make out like he is incased at the center" And mountains worth of rubble on top of him? please he is around 100 hundred meters (More than likely less give its size before he was encased) from the surface, at most he has a hills worth of debis directly onto of him not allowing him to move. Which would be easy for him to break out of if he transformed.

first of all, rocks can no be compressed into one whole object. where did you get that from? the planets formed because of the suns heat. i don't see how your coal example applies, since its dead plant matter that forms it and not bones, also the fact it takes millions of years makes your point moot.

First of all our planet was compressed into a sphere by its gravity field, and aside from its tectonic plates it one solid object. Same goes for our moon, Debris from Earth knocked into orbit and then compressed into a natural satilite that orbits our planet, and again it was compressed into one solid object created from many large rocks. If the gravity field or pressure on the object is strong enough then it will smooth out the object and form a structurally sound object. As for the coal I ment to say organic life, so that was my bad. But why do you believe that makes my point moot? I was trying to show you that when exposed to extreme pressure or gravity if will combine into one object, which I did... the fact that it takes millions years is irrelivent in this case since pain used gravity manipulation he would have been able to replicate the pressure that the organic matter was exposed to over those millions of years in the span of a few seconds. But whatever we will just go round in circles becasue of this anyway so I say we just leave it at that and save our wrists the possible RSI.

Hold on the planets formed because of the suns heat? lol that is funny, explain Neptune the furthest planet from the sun in our system? The planets formed because a Large Cump of rock got caught in orbit around the sun and started to develop a gravity field of its own pulling debris into it and forming a sphere, Like you see today. The Suns role in creating our planets was miniscule, It had a big role in POPULATING our planet but not forming it. The Sun is only there to give life, heat and keep the orbit of planets in line. Where you got that from I would love to know.

The Chibaku Tensei also collapsed when he lost control of it meaning all he had done is lift the ground around him and raise it into the air in the shape of a sphere nothing more (Nothing like the SOSP who created a full blown structure with a self sufficent gravity field of its own.) Which once again would have made it even easier to break out.

Town+ level means an attack greater than town level but less than City/Mountain level, nothing more. How you got an exact range to this rating of destruction I will never know. And once again I never said he was at mountain level I said he was close, and thats in regards to its place on the scale. It could be closer to Mountain level than you think, but there is no way to know for sure. unless you were at the center of the blast and can tell us the energy released?

But what does it even matter, the point was the 2 attacks are similar in their make-up and use which is why it would make sense to compare the 2.

And no I dont act like consecutive hits would build and add up. What is worse 1 strong punch in one second or 1,000,000 light punches in one second? Obviously the latter. Same applies for Ichigo, while he is not as destructive as Naruto he can hit more attacks in the time it takes naruto to use his most destructive attack. I would sooner spend 10 seconds hitting 100's of mid ranged attacks than I would spend those 10 seconds charging up a high level attack.

Same logic can be applied like this. A .50 BMG is not able to penatrate an M1A1 Abrams outright, but a second shot to the same location will go straight through, why? because it was weakened. You make out like Narutos Cloak cannot be broken by anything short of a mountain buster, no matter how many attacks are use against it, it will not weaken at all until it is met by a mountain busting attack. Each of Ichigos attack will weaken the defence he has and he will break through sooner or later. Its no different than susanoo (To is visual composition and look), it can be broken through if it is hit repeatedly with strong attacks, and while it might have mountain level durability (No I am not stating that susanoo has mountain level durability), enough strong attacks in a short period of time WILL take its toll on the cloak.

Fact is Ichigo is a faster, stronger and more skilled fighter than Naruto is, and Currently he wins this, until Naruto shows some more impressive skills with his new form. He will remain in close range effectively shutting down Narutos Biju Dama and then he must resort to close range fighting, which Ichigo will avoid with relitive ease, and all the while hacking away with his inferior Hill busting attacks until Naruto is out of his Cloak and gets stabbed through the chest with zangetsu ending the fight.

Unless you make a life changing point in Narutos favor (Or he gets some more showtime in his own manga series) I will only every believe that Ichigo can win this for reasons already stated.

Post by Yusuke52 (457 posts) See mini bio Level 16

Battles » naruto vs ichigo vs luffy

@YouFinished: There is no evidence to suggest that naruto was at the center of the gravity well, he is in fact quite close to the surface of the Chibaku Tensei (Deep enough to render him immobile but no more) since it had already started to form before he joined the main sphere.

the 8 tails breaking through a mountains worth of rock is very impressive. and are you saying the 9 tails is bigger than sphere that dwarfs mountains? im sorry, but what the hell.

I am saying that his placement in the Chibaku Tensei makes the feat of him breaking out of it not impressive. You make out like he was contained at the very center of the Jutsu when he is infact very close to the surface. Hence why I said it is not all that impressive and why the 8 Tails easily broke free from it. The Nine Tails was equal in size (if not bigger) to the Hokage Monument which is once again why I said it would have had no problem breaking out of it.

Once again he is not at the center, or anywhere near for that matter. He is at best 100 meters below the surface which is why it is unimpressive.

It is not unreasonable to think that a beast of its size and power could not tank a mountain level attack. Even going by powerscaling his high tier forms should be able to tank such attacks. nagato did not want to kill him at all, he only wanted to contain him. He would never have used the Jutsu if he though it would kill him or cause incredible/deadly pain to his body. And that is why I do not see that as a suitable feat for his durability. The Jutsu was only used to contain him which is why i dont see that as a good durability feat (Since it was not used to inflict pain or harm upon his person). People can disagree with me of course, but I just dont see that as a durability feat, With that said I dont disagree with his mountain level durability in his High Tier forms, just with that piece of evidence to support it

As far as the the cracks go in the Chibaku Tensei you said

he cracks on surface are only there because its made up of different rocks, rocks are a dense solid they cant be full compressed together no matter how much pressure you put on them they just crack and break.

Well if enough pressure or gravity is exerted on rocks they would keep crushing until they form into one whole object, Like many of our planets and our moon. Even Coal is formed into a solid object after millions of years of compression from old bones. the reason I brought that up is beacuse the spheres structure is physicaly weak due to all of the visable cracks (And the cracks through the sphere itself), meaning that it would require less power to break free from it than it would if it was all one object, the fact that it is being held in place is irrelvent because it is obvious that the gravity ball peaked when it activated and then got weaker, meaning he had an even weaker hold over the sphere when naruto broke out, which also makes his escape less impressive in my eyes.

As far as the Uquiorra goes, I said it was Town+ level that could be anything below Mountain to anything above Town in terms of destruction (but that is besides the point). And when I said it is not far off, I ment on the scale since town is below mountain. Besides the attacks are similar in their makeup and use which is why I said it was a good comparison.

And as for why I believe ichigo can win, well its simple really. He can consisteltly put out hill busting attacks at an incredible pace, not to mention he is much faster than naruto and would be able to close the distance should naruto chose to try and make a Bijuu Dama and enable him to dodge with ease, he can fly and his strength is incredible (When he grabbed aizens blade with his hand and it destroyed the ground around him). Effectively Naruto only outclasses him in raw destructive power with the Bijuu Dama which he could fire off a few times a minute, whereas Ichigo can destroys Hill with each swing of his blade (Calced at Mach 28) is much faster and only has to avoide him for 5 minutes (Which he would be able to do with ease).

Think of it like this, Nauro has the Bijuu Dama (mountain level destruction) Ichigo has his Sword Swings (Hill Level). By the time Naruto has charged up his Bijuu Dama he has already be struck with multiple hill level blasts, Hell Ichigo could detonate the Bijuu Dama ala Getsuga Tensho before he fires it off and naruto would have to tank his own attack then (Sufficent force to the ball should cause it to explode, That is what happens when it collides with something causing the resulting explosion that you see.). The odds are stacked in ichigos favor since he can dish out very powerful attacks consistently where naruto can only dish out a few at a time, For all we know it takes 10-20 seconds to form and fire a Bijuu Dama, could be longer, But I will assume the shorter time span, During which time Ichigo would have already hit him with multiple attacks each at hill level.

Dont assume that because his attacks are less destructive that he is unable to break through, many Hill busting attacks in the span of a few seconds all add up and would break through eventually.

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