Yes it was sand. We can calculate how much energy is required to raise the sand to that height. OBD calculated lanza's potency as 1.05 MT, which is city+.
Incorrect, that is the lowest possible level to be classed city level at all.
The correct calc for Lanza is 15 MT which is still low city level.
The Bijuu Dama are right there on low end of small Island level with Naruto and Bee's combined Bijuu Dama being up there at high end of Island level (Right at the top).
Madara's Swing is there at 132 MT.
Fragor was calced at 7MT in that blog for the accepted calcs. It also has one at 17MT or thereabouts if I remember correctly but I can't find the blog for it, or more specifically I just could not be bothered to look for it, use the higher value if you want too, and let it never be said that I constricted Bleach to low end values.
Mugetsu, Ichigos strongest attack packs a total of 40 MT when last I checked. Nowhere near enough to break Susanoo or harm Kurama in the slightest.
And his swings... are not even worth mentioning in this regard since they will do jack to Madara.
All of these were created to avoid pointless debates like "Country level Ichigo" and "Aizen can survive planet level attacks" and "Well he looks faster so he must be."
They are completely unbias despite what people like to think given that they only calc what is present there to calc, they have multiple people from different ethnic and social backgrounds looking over said calcs to see if it could be done any better or if anything was wrong. Actually helping one another make the calc as good as it can be.
All of them have different tastes and most of them hate Naruto and Bleach anyway.
Saying calcs are stupid just because you dont like them or you think the numbers are too high is utterly pointless as they were done in the fairest way possible to get the best results from the evidence given.
I dont like the fact that NASA calculates how much fuel is needed for certain ships to leave this planet, I dont like the fact that people calculate the yield of explosives based on a theortical work, yet both occurances have a very high rate of sucess and yield definitive results which we are confident enough to use in the real world.
Why exactly should we not use calcs that have resonable figures given to get a fair result? They give us clear results to something that is otherwise just impossible to guess, and if the battle fourms have been reduced to guess work then what is the point of having a debate at all.
To debate means to give resonable evidence, I have provided you with calcs to get resonable numbers for the feats displayed within them. You dont get more resonable than that.
Bleach is all flash when it comes to feats, in reality they lack alot of things that could actually increase their power. That is due to Kubo refusing to show what the attacks in question DO (Unohana, Yamamoto, Shunsui, most of their Bankai/Shikai are still shrouded in mystery and nobody can say with complete certainty that they know exactly what they do and how powerful they are)
Yamamoto's shikai (ennetsu jigoku) was stated to have enough power to destroy an area exponentially larger than karakura town (making it multi city level).
"Exponentially" is not a stadardized unit of measure or size, It could mean twice the size, it could me 20 times the size, it could mean 100 times the size, it could mean 3000 times the size, We don't know. Completely unquantifable beyond the obvious fact that Karakura Town was going to be destroyed.
Second, it's not multi city level, there is no such thing when debating destructive power, If anything it's on the upper end of City level.
And yama tanked it.
Yamamoto compressed its power to levels we dont know, a good portion of that energy was likely absorbed back into his body without any ill effects, the rest of it hit him. Unquantifiable is another word to describe it. Besides he has City level durability by powerscalling anyway and thats what he would have for tanking the attack.
So I'd say aizen's fragor is easily multi mountain by this powerscaling
And I say there is obviously something wrong with your version of "Powerscaling". It's on the low end of city level tanks to the feats it displayed.
As for this speed advantage people keep saying Ichigo has, it does not exist to any level that makes it worth pointing out.
Mach 20 Naruto to Mach 23 Bleach.
3 Mach is not a "speed advantage" unless they are within breathing distance or a few feet of one another and the other person cant react for shit. And definitely not an advantage against someone who HAS multiple long range attacks and is at a distance of 200 meters on the back of a large beast in very rocky and uneven terrain..
Reaction wise Madara is perfectly scalable to Hashirama who, at the lowest of low estimates, is around mach 30-40 odd in reactions thanks to his reaction feat against a Bijuu Dama, so Ichigo is not blitzing him even if he somehow does cross 200 meters before Madara (A man who sensed Hashirama from across a country) notices him doing so.
As for attacking power, Ichigo lacks anything that can break Susanoo or harm Kurama, there is no debate to be had in this regard. And to say it's not in Madara's nature to use Susanoo is like saying it's not in a humans nature to want to live. Virtually every instance bar a select few we have seen him in, he has some form of Susanoo active, hell even when using Kurama he though "Rolling with a Bijuu, might as well pimp this ride out and slap on Susanoo for the lolz."
The second this battle starts Bijuu Dama will be fired and Susanoo will be activated to protect not only himself but Kurama from any damage he may take. He is not stupid enough to leave himself exposed to attacks outside of Edo and he has no reason to not use and abuse Susanoo.
"A massive boost in power and defence which takes no toll on my body nor does it use up my chakra at increased rates and gives me an unbreakable defence and strong as hell offence? I will take one of those."
Thats like a solider not using their gun because they are worried they might run out of ammo. Who gives a shit, it's easy to use and does not physically drain me while firing it. I might as well use it since its counter productive for me to not use it.
He has an advantage that costs him very little to exploit, and people are trying to say that he won't go ahead and exploit it when he is shown to do just that? Just no.
Ichigo himself is not one for dodging attacks to begin with, he either blocks them or tries to overcome them. This tactic will not do him any good against Madara, who packs more than enough power to put him down and make him stay down.
If the distance is closed then he has to deal with Ninjutsu and Genjutsu as well as avoiding the constant Bijuu Dama spam and sword swings which contain more energy per swing than Mugetsu's best showing of destruction and have range well beyond the distance stated in the OP.
Not to mention the Gumbai, which he was skilled enough with to perfectly block Naruto's super mini Bijuu Dama. Not only does it block the attack, it also reflects it back at the attacker. If Ichigo wants to try some swordplay with Madara outside of Susanoo, then he is just going to be eating his own shockwaves because the mini Bijuu Dama is far more powerful than his swings and by effect his Gumbai is more than able to block and repel them if he needs it to.
And flight as an advantage to Ichigo? Maybe certain Captains and Vice Captains, but Ichigo?
Do I need to point out the obvious and say that virtually everything he does is in close quarters, he has two attacks that have any decent level of range in this form, one of which is useless at 200 meters due to its rather slow travel time and low energy output and was not even displayed at all, and the other reduces him to a husk of his former self after a single use.
Sure he can go into the sky, but what exactly will that achieve for him? Not a single thing, If anything he makes it worse since he has just removed himself from his own area of comfort as he never fights at long range, he only ever fights in CQC.
On the off chance he is at range, he closes the distance after he fires a Getsuga Tenshou or he just tries to close the gap straight away to engage head to head. Something which wont work out well for him given he is fighting an ethreal warrior with 4 arms and as many blades as it needs, that's hundreds of times his size and moves at impeccable speed despite it's size. Not to mention the thing wearing it like armor is also firing out Bijuu Dama constantly and slapping the landscape into dust with it's tails.
For his feats.
First Image (From this point, it's image set one) is showing the superior power of Susanoo, a feat that by rights is better than anything Ichigo displayed by a large margin. This feat however is not where the 132 MT calc comes from, that comes from his battle with the 4th division. Obviously this is superior yet I wont go as far as to make a number up, unlike some people here who just "wing it" when it comes to Bleach feats.
The second set of images (2,3,4) is the reaction feat. Hashirama, while in mid air, reacts to the enhanced Bijuu Dama, turns and lands, bites his finger and spreads the blood over his hand, and then hits his hands off the ground with plenty of time left for the summoning and a brief moment before the Bijuu Dama impacts. The speed comes from one of 2 things.
a) The dust cloud around the Rashmon Gates is still thick and is just rising over the gates by the time it reaches the other side of the lake, you can see this clearly. It would had to have happened very quickly since dust rises rather fast when its kicked up by such force.
b) Look at the trail it left in the water, the bay where it left is still visibly disturbed by the time its crossed the distance and exploded. Another indication of extreme speeds.
Not to mention that is enhanced with a blade from Susanoo so naturally its going to move faster and cause more damage.
It's calced well into the triple digits, if you dont like that the lowest speeds they have around mach 30-40 odd, so still beyond Ichigo regardless which makes a blitz all but impossible no matter what the distance is.
Madara, having eyes that increase his reaction time should, at the very least, be in this range for reactions too. No amount of downplaying alters the fact he still remains one of the strongest people present in Naruto by a decent margin in every stat, speed included
If Nagato gets mach 20 scaling then Madara is sure as hell getting it too.
The thrid set of images (5,6,7) Display the speed at which Susanoo was able to move its body and arms to place blades into every one of those Bijuu Dama at speeds fast enough where the spread between each Bijuu Dama is only a few feet at most. To say that Susanoo lacks speed is overlooking this key fact that it's more or less as fast, if not faster, than Madara is despite being larger. Similar to Kokujo Tengen Myo'o in this regard without the horrible side effect that comes with it.
It also displays the same level of power Ichigo will never produce in Dangai or FGT form to break through Susanoo.
The final image there is the perfect way of decerning how powerful an attack is. We have a clear depth of the valley that was formed, the only thing we dont have is the length, which can be estimated easy enough in other scans.
Bleach rarely gets things as clear as this for destruction and speed feats, hence why they have very small boosts in power compaired to Naruto and One Piece. If they every get any good feats then sure, use them all you want, if they ever get anything that can break through Susanoo then by all means go right ahead and use it.
Im not so egotistical that I won't conceed something that is blatantly obvious.
Yet as it stands right now they don't, and given Ichigo was at his absolute peak in Dangai form he will likely never have anything that can make him a match for Naruto top tiers such as Madara. I have been wrong before of course so only time will tell.
Madara alone has enough skill and power to take this, Kurama just ensures that this victory is absolute. The terrain itself works against Ichigo as he has less room to attempt to dodge such wide scale AoE attacks.
And I swear to god if I hear any BS about Kurohitsugi and it's "warping time and space" crap I am going to punch a dog in the face.
@othus12: @SpeedForceSpider: Hope that suffices if you can get through it all.
Likely won't change much given no matter how flawless this is, it wont change the fact that Bleach is just Bleach, and people think it's more powerful than it actually is.
I only go by what is resonable and fair. If I didn't I would not have bothered to point out that Lanza is 15 MT and not 1 MT.
Just adding that in before someone claims I am "Wanking" Naruto for whatever reason, when most people here know I dont really "like" any HST series that much to actually put in the time and the effort to find vague feats and wank them to increase power. To be honest they are all equal in my eyes and I could drop all of them today and not a single fuck will be given by myself.
But everything has been said now, and there is nothing more to be said. The only thing left if for someone to start saying Ichigo is a planet buster at which point we should all just GTFO. Dont expect any replies out of me as I have alot of work to finish up before im officially done, and being on here gets me no closer to finishing it.