Team two got this.
Team two got this.
You're assuming that it was a sonic wave. The speed that Ozai was at when he hopped on to the next rock was actually very slow and calm.
Calm and slow to Aang. When flash is moving FTL on animaions do we think he's moving slow, because the camera follows him? This isnt DBZ bro, the camera follows these characters so we can see all the action. So because things look slow does that mean it's actually slow? No.
If these two characters are fighting at great speeds and we're inside the fight we don't need them speed up the fight to the point we the viewers can't see what the hell is going on.
I'm just going to leave the video for other people to see and any unbiased person would tell you that this speed was not supersonic. It wasn't even superhuman.
He has flames coming from his feet, that alone already tells us he's moving faster than any human can. The propulsion of the flames would push him pretty fast.
If that's what you call supersonic then I'm supersonic too.
Terrible statement. I'm assuming you'e capable of doing the same thing he just did there? Please upload a video of you shooting enough fire to propel your self in the air.
I've yet to see an Avatar character actually react to real lightning instead of acting as a lightning rod so I can't agree with your mach 50 calculations.
AGAIN. He is required to first SEE the lightning, meaning he can perceive things of this speed. He would also need to MOVE at such speed to be able to BEND it. For some reason you're saying lightning rod, but he's clearly REDIRECTING IT.
Where are you getting mach 12 from if you don't even know how fast this unnatural lightning is?
This lightning as yet to tag any confirmed speedsters or out speed anything so how could you possibly calculate the speed for it?
LOL Is that really your argument? Because it doesn't tag a speedster and it didn't out speed anything you think we can't calc it? We can calc bullets IRL, yet you think we can't do some lightning which needs to cross distance within a time frame. How do you think we calc real lightning?
If by everywhere you mean no where then yea. I didn't see any lightning being "everywhere."
Looks at 3:05 - 3:11 again. He's in the air and the lightning is moving. Slow it down if your eyes aren't fast enough.
It comes from point A to Point B in an instant
In that same video you just posted had Katara dodging Azula's lightning multiple times and she isn't even as physically fast as Zuko, Aang, and Azula.
What do you mean she's not as fast as Zuko and Azula? Do you even watch Avatar? She's beaten both of them before. They never ONCE blitz her. And Aang is in a class of his own, he's the fastest in the verse, by far.
I guess Katara is now hypersonic+ all of a sudden despite the fact that she's been defeated by mich slower attacks?
I guess she is now. Thanks for pointing that out. Just because someone gets a speed increase due to people calcs don't mean you need to cry about it. A lot of the lower level characters are reacting to arrows. Which arrows are normally around 300 fps. So when you go up the verse chain and have other slower benders doing subsonic feats, we start to see the verse is pretty fast.
And speaking of baseless assumptions. Why exactly does that make it hypersonic? Because you say so?
No because you can see its true speed while Zuko's in the air. But it' ok don't worry about it.
BTW. Hypersonic is the level of speed where things nearly stops to that degree.Because everything is within milliseconds. That's why it's at least hypersonic.
Katara was dodging that same lightning and this girl can't even dodge Ty Lee
And again DID YOU WATCH AVATAR? Ty Lee is easily one of the fastest characters in the series. Who has she not blitz'd?
She's blitz an Elite earth bending group.
She's blitz nearly all the young characters in the series.
or some fodder men from the fire tribe when they captured her and threw her in jail. Everyone's speed in this show is so inconsistent
That's actually true. But the same can by stated for Naruto and many other series.
Except it didn't look like a shockwave. If you really believe it was then find me a video of an interviewer confirming it or something otherwise we will get no where on this subject.
Why do I have to fish for this information when the proof is right in frount of your face. Proof that's it's not one. Now we can agree to disagree here. But it's not like they haven't drawn sonic booms before within the series.
Now do you really want to say that this isn't a shock wave? Sound booms are common knowledge and people don't just draw it for no apparent reason. The fire lord made an air cone behind his feet meaning he's moving fast enough that the air is being pushed back. Rather he did that or not, I'd still call it supersonic after being able to out fly these.
Or is this below supersonic to you? Because I don't know any thing on earth that can move at that speed and get blitz by a bullet.
Actually you're wrong. The earth and air bending during their fight was making the same effect. Rewatch the video and just look for moments when Aang used earth bending and air bending.
Mind showing me the time? Because all I see if dust.
No it doesn't. That's like saying Benjamin Franklin had superhuman reaction because he caught a lightning bolt with his key and kite. The lightning bolt that Iroh caught came from off screen so we don't know whether or not he was actually able to see the lightning bolt before it hit the ground and he most likely attracted it from the sky like a lightning rod since benders are able to manipulate elements.
How the fuck does that sound? Have you've seen anyone look at a lightning bolt while it strikes UP CLOSE? Not only that you think he pulled it from the sky? He noticed it strike, and started to bend it out of the way before it got close enough to the ship.
You lack physics my friend. I'm bored with this debate. We'll jump back onto this battle shall we.
Oh it's clear to people who's been following Naruto since the beginning. If you want to go into a serious speed debate against the Narutoverse then it's going to get ugly and make the Avatar verse seem a lot slower because part 1 Sasuke and Naruto fresh out of the academy were hypersonic yet still slower than Kakashi at the time and pt 2 Kakashi was nearly killed by Kakuzu twice after getting caught twice.
See you've just jumped into fan boy territory. You think this is a contest on who HAS the fastest verse? This is simply me not letting a verse get downplayed. Not jumping up with who's faster or not.
POINT OF ALL OF THIS. Aang is faster than ALL of the other characters in his verse. Meaning he's hypersonic. If I wanted to make him blitz Kakazu I would have bought of the calcs that I don't like. I'm not a fan of calcs but they can be really helpful in finding out what characters can actually do. You say Narutoverse is faster right? But you do know this is DUE to calcs. They have not displayed anything faster than what the Avatar verse displays. I agree with some of these calcs thus I'm cool with the idea of Avatarverse being slower.
Now I'm starting this battle up. And I won't be replying to anything concerning to the pass argument.
You're implying that all the other past avatars were powerful which they all weren't
Pass avatars are extremely powerful. You've not seen the series my friend. One pass Avatar pushed an island ( which contained multiple mountains). Across the see, after she separated it from the continent. Another avatar set off multiple Volcanoes and once. Another avatar created a tsunami.
Also do you forget his Avatar state comes from a combination of their powers?
which is why some died in stupid ways or
Who died stupidly? Also how is dying stupidly proving in anyway that they are not powerful?
never got to reach their full potential which is why Aang can't metal, lava, blood bend, etc.
Aang can Lava bend. Blood and Metel probably not, for odd reasons.
lol. A fanboy I see.
Advance in my general direction. I'll surely enjoy this.
Ozai is breaking sound barrier ? İts just some efect about push and burning air not the barrier.. This is just sad..
Even genins is narutoverse faster then Ozai
And those guys being who?
İn avatarverse elemental attacks are punchable
Same laws go to ours.
harmless for landscape (mostly)
Harmless for landscape? Yeah because burning an entire forest then leading into then entire continent with fire is harmless. Yeah because destroying entire walls, buildings, mountain sides, and lands with earth is harmless. Yeah because destroying entire battleships destroying planets and trees with water is harmless. Yeah Because spiting land from a continent and pushing an entire island is harmless?
Just because they don't go DBZ mode and randomly start destroying the backgrounds like it's man of steel doesn't make it harmless. What are you 12?
But not in narutoverse
Elements in Naruto are very similar, but they aren't on the same level as the Avatarverse in terms of control. That's more points toward the Avatar verse. Don't act like that makes them weaker. The moest powerful ninja's in the Naruto verse have control over their elements. Garra, Hashirama, yamamoto. They don't need the power of This is now my final form!!!
Kakuzu is S Class ninja with 80-90 years battle experienced
Sure helped a lot with those kids.
Lets look at Aang. Oh wait 10,000 years of experience WOW. And his actually allows him to tap into much greater power.
he has intelligence, speed, durability, strentgh at super-human level..
Well Aang has all of those too. What a pickle we're in aren't we.
Please, think about it.
Are you serious? lol
That was nowhere near supersonic speed. Ozai was just lazily hopping to the rock right next to him at the most casual humanlike speed. That didn't even look like he was breaking the sound barrier.
If something makes a VISIBLE sonic wave then yes they are moving at least Supersonic.
The lightning that Ozai, Azula, and Zuko project isn't real lightning so how are you getting these calculations? The lightning even looks like it's moving at the same exact speed as their firebending. The animators doesn't even try to imply that it's faster.
If it was real lightning, I would have said it was at least Mach 50, but it's just been calc'd to mach 12. Are you even looking at the fight? The animation of the characters slows down, yet the lightning always continues with it's true speed. Hell look at Zuko being hit with lightning. He's in the fucking air, and barely moving. Yet the lightning is moving everywhere.
2:56 to 3:15 See how long a One or two second sense takes. Saying that it's the same as it's bender is a baseless statement. It's still hypersonic (with or without calcs).
No they didn't. The animatiors used the same effect for his fire when he was landing on a rock at normal level speed at 2:37-2:42 in the video above.
If he looks like a shock wave, then it must be a shock wave. Simple as that. There's no reason why it shouldn't be one. Because of style? That's your argument?
At least try to find a scientific reason why the fire or air did that. Because Earth and Water never just did that.
I don't see Iron reacting to lightning. What I see is him using his body as a lightning rod.
You do know it takes movement and reaction speed to do what he did? It's not like it just jump onto his hands without him noticing it. He noticed it before it even came close to the boat. His reaction speed was calc'd 266 milliseconds.
I'd like to see Aang outrunning the lightning blast if you have it. I remember the episode where Zuko was trying to learn how to redirect lightning and he was getting pissed and I also remember specifically that he used his hand like a lightning rod the same way Iron did.
Zuko does that above. Have a field day power scaling.. Oh yeah. I'd like to see Kakazu actually eat pizza, while hopping on one leg, while bullet timing.
I gave you. Feats. Not any character vs character battles. I have you dodging objects and blast that have in your face speed.
It happened in the chapter that's specifically named Madara vs Bijuu which is chapter 658. Gaara restricted his body with sand but he could still cast Susanoo but the Tailed Beasts were all pressuring him and he used it once they finally stopped attacking him. Keep on mind that he was in a mortal body and at the time so he didn't have the luxury of holding back against all the Tailed Beasts.
And that translated speed feat to you? Madara wasn't looking at these beast. He couldn't move his feat. Hell the man got his while he was looking at the ground. Nothing impressive happened.
You asked me for speed feats and I gave you speed feats for both Kakashi and Kakuzu. If you specifically wanted calculations then you should have said so.
True, but it's normal for people to not only provide the feats yet still provide some form of a speed it's self. If it's not clear, like bullet timing or lightning timing. Then you might want to pull out a calc for any one to truly care. I know the current speeds of Naruto characters. However, I lack the knowledge of the weaker early versions. Which I'm assuming you would know a huge amount of speed feats for them.
I personally wouldn't rely on fan calcs for every debate but if you want specific calcs for Kakashi and Kakuzu then you're going to have to ask someone who's an expert on fan calculations but the speed feats that I provided you with would suffice.
The speed feats you've provided with out calcs means nothing. Because they are baseless by them selfs. I personally don't like calcs but some verses need them. Naruto is one of those verses that if it didn't get calc'd they would be sitting in the supersonic - low hypersonic range. Simply because of Lee vs Garra's fight.
I'm bored now. You're pointlessly pushing (In your face) feats, then want people to take your scans for amazing stuff. With little to no reference on these attacks.
Topic ended. Lets just focus on this battle. Speed was equaled for this very reason.
Just wanted to enlighten you on some stuff as you've just made a new post
Avatar state just simply let's him use all the bending he's learned at once from what we saw.
Not only is it all the bending that he learned before, but al of their energy focused into him. So he has the ability to bend the largest and more powerful attacks than anyone. He's the strongest bender in the world when he's in that state.
If the animators wanted the viewers to know he's fast enough to react to lightning then they would have shown the lightning coming from the sky then Iron reacting to it right before it hit the ground but it came from off screen so it could most likely mean that once he started his hand movement the lightning came from the sky and was directly attracted to him like a lightning rod since he was manipulating chi.
Yeah. And they should have shown the charges building up within the clouds and maybe some shots from space. Why do we need to see the damn sky? It clearly didn't pop out from the ground. Also he clearly stopped it from hitting the METAL ship. If it was any closer it would have hit the ship. Yeah. Lightning doesn't need direct contact to fuck shit up. Indirect would have done enough damage to the crew. He SAW the lightning bolt, stuck out his hands and started to REDIRECT it. Which required him to not only SEE the bolt. He needed to MOVE, and then react at the speed needed to get a hold over it. So YES It's reacting. All your downplaying isn't doing anything to this.
There were a bunch of moments where Iroh gets tagged by slower things like when Azula torched him in that abandoned village
Which he was clearly looking at the other character, so he didn't see the attack. Doesn't matter how good your reaction is. If you're looking at something else. He as already reacted to Azula and better characters, and put them on their ass's.
or when Toph hit him with her earth bending when he was hiding behind a rock. '
Yeah. She hit him on his ass, when he was bending over. WOW that's amazing. Comedic moments in avatar are great right? He's not a violent man, and he's not in fight mode every moment. He's not a bloodlust character. He wasn't in danger.
He should have easily been able to react to Azula's fire of he really could react to real lightning.
Explained this above your're welcome.
By combat speed feats I mean good combat speed feats if you think he can hang with Naruto's speedsters in combat.
Combat speed? There's no such thing.
What do you define as combat speed?
Also the only thing you truly need to fight on par with someone is the ability to See,React,and Move at said speeds.
So the entire idea of combat speed is stupid and makes no sense.
I'd like to see these supersonic and hypersonic attacks for myself if you don't mind. I've watched all seasons of Avatar but I never took notes.
I'd gladly do so.
This is based off Azula's lightning, which at this speed. Zuko also reacted to this and redirected this attack while in mid air. Powerscaled to top-tier TLA characters.
Which he shoots a mach 12+ lightning blast at Aang. Aang is dodging these lightning strikes and then rolls over to react to them, which he could have shot Ozai, but shoots it into the sky.
Aang reacting to combustion mans explosions.
Some of the fire blast shoot at him during the final battle, where at least super sonic. Broke sound barrier.
I was being honest when I said lightning blast because it wasn't a real lightning bolt but to be fair, Aang has never reacted to a real lightning bolt either and he's never outrun a lightning blast in his verse like Kakashi did which isn't just a reaction feat but a raw speed feat overall which Aang or any of his enemies have ever done.
No one ever said Aang reacted to real lightning, but Iroh has.
But he has out ran lightning bolts in his own verse. As for dodging, Aang has blitzed Zuko before, which Zuko has caught the hypersonic lightning in the air.
The Deidara feat happened during the Gaara arc that happened before the Kakuzu and Hidan arc. Kakashi wasn't amped when he reacted to Susanoo's arrow and he was exhausted from using kamui just like when he reacted to Deidara's explosion so his stats were still the same. He didn't improve stat wise until the war arc came.
Yeah. Sorry about my misconception.
The Kakuzu and Hidan arc was short but for what Kakuzu did in it easily put him on Kakashi's (not current Kakashi) level of speed. When Kakuzu was introduced he and Hidan were to capture Yugito Nii but she led them into a trap and turned into the Two Tailed beast and when she tried to blitz Kakuzu he was fast enough to block her attack even though she hilariously overpowered him into the ground he was still fast enough to react and block her attack. The Two Tailed Beast along with all the other Tailed Beasts were casually playing ping pong with Madara and we really don't need to go into Madara's speed and reaction feats do we?
Mind telling me which chapter they did this to Madara? Because I just remember him owning them.
As for you're example I get what you're saying but the difference here is that I actually did give you Kakuzu and Kakashi's speed feats.
No you didn't. You just keep showing me. Character A is reacting or keeping up with character B. Which you needed to answer with character B is this fast ( insert mach or something impressive)
Kakashi's lightning blast feat, isn't real lightning. So It would have been nice to see you post a calc or something for it's speed. This way I can say wow, Kakashi can keep up with that level of speed, and Kakazu fought him. I guess that means he's just as fast.
You sick bastard I'm supposed to be the last one. lol
As the 100th reply. I declare team one the victor. Team World Breaker!!!
Umm u asked what speed feats does kakazu have and i just simply replied.
No I didn't. I asked how fast he was. You wanted to bring up weak feats. Blitzing characters AREN'T impressive if we don't know the character that was blitzed speed. Which is why I asked you WHAT IS ASUMA'S SPEED.
Also why does it matter if the fight is on speed equalized ?
Because if one of these characters are faster than the other. Let me restart that. If one of these characters are massively faster than the other, then they can simply speed blitz the other.
Aang's speed in combat is nothing to write home about.
I've never heard of that saying, but I'm going to assume you mean it's nothing to sniff at. Which you would be wrong.
His best speed feats always involved him using airbending so he could run forward at full speed but that would be utterly useless in a fight unless his goal was to go smashing face first into a wall.
He has reacted to supersonic and hypersonic attacks. He can handle him self quite well here.
outrun and intercept a lightning blast,
Yeah,hopefully you don't mean an actual lightning bolt. If so please show scans of him doing so.
was able to attack Kakuzu before he could notice his pressence
wow. That kind of contradicts the entire point of bringing up Kakazu tagging him. But maybe it's just a sneak attack oh well.
react fast enough to kamui Deidara's forest level explosion away before it hit anyone in the area, react to Sasuke's Susanoo's arrow, react to a bijuu bomb and kamui it away
Yeah I love all of this above. But that wasn't the Kakashi that fought Kakazu
Kakuzu was able to catch this guy 3 times.
You're still lacking on speed feats for Kakazu. Saying he tags Kakashi, which would be impressive if you showed some speed feats for Kakashi.
Example: This is again. Like me stating Aang as tagged and blitzed fire soldiers. That's nice and all, but I didn't give you any speed feats for the soldiers, so you can understand that Aang not only gains their speed for base, but he would be much faster.
The whole point of this argument is because you think Aang in the Avatar state can out speed Kakuzu in general and you've yet to prove it.
Aang can't blitz him. Kakazu isn't blitzing Aang as well, as from what I've seen.
Kakashi actually outran it before countering it
What's the point of all of these pointless statements. Aang as BETTER speed feats than Kakazu. Speed is equal so lets just focus on this battle. Now if you want to work on reaction we can do that.
And what's Asuma's speed? That's like me saying Aang blitzed a fire bender solider. Now you should be amazed, because he blitzed someone with NO REAL SPEED FEATS. Amazing right?
Quick question. How fast is MS Kakashi?
I'm pretty sure Aang can keep up with this guy. He does have hypersonic reaction.
We weren't talking about this specific thread I was replying to a comment on this lava bendermentioned being able to keep up with Kakuzu
Oh gotcha. My bad.
Lol you're implying that Aang in Avatar state displayed any noteworthy speed
Well he did keep Ozai running for his life, while he casually flew at him threw everything and attacked. Ozai was flying pretty damn fast through everything to get away.
ROFL Team 2 stomps.
Team one is barely has any planet busters.