Susanoo (Level 9)

@Haofan123 said:

                    @susanoo said:

@Haofan123: His strength and durability feats, off the screen, ect. How do you know he doesn't know what if feels like? It's like a comic character just randomly saying million tons ect because of something similar. Have you ever taken into consideration that he knows what if feels like based on what he does? There's a difference, he lives in a world where he constantly fights superpowered beings while you most likely haven't even attempted to eat a horse. Like I said, Iron Mans reflexes are slower. Raikages going to be the one to move first. Iron mans faster in travel speed, not combat nor reaction speed. Which is the deciding factor here. Yet someone like Spider-Man has struck his mask off his face before? You don't think Raikage can do the same?

                   

               

Superpowered beings that have NEVER showcased feats that prove that they can attack with 500 tons of striking force. The Tsuchikage is probably the only one and even that is extremely debatable. Naruto has no experience tanking 500 tons of force before and thus has nothing to compare it to. If you have a feat to prove that he has tanked 500+ tons of force before his fight with the raikage(Keep in mind that As punch isnt 500 tons) then id love to see it. Like NewDeath said, iron man can fly, over at mach 8, and apperantly spam nukes

                   

               

How do you come up with such a claim that he hasn't? Manga statements are written directly from the writer itself. If he writes it, then we take it. It isn't comics where there are multiple writers such as Pak, leob, and ect. Like I said, travel speed does not equal combat nor reaction speed.

@Newdeath said:

                    @susanoo: First of all, 500 tons is nothing in the Marvel Universe. Iron Man has fought Red Hulk and The Hulk, both can lift way more than a mere 500 tons. Current Iron Man can lift in the excess of 100 tons. He was strong enough to harm The Hulk who has taken Thor's hammer strikes. And as for speed, Iron Man is faster than Raikage. You do realize that Iron Man can react in under a second right? I can provide scans if you want. He moves in the excess of Mach 8 speeds, that is greater than Raikage's speed. Don't forget that Iron Man can also fly. Nothing is stopping him from getting into the air where Raikage can't reach him. Also Iron Man can unleash nukes like he has an unlimited supply. He has more firepower than Pain who so far has the best destructive feat in the entire Narutoverse. Iron Man easily outclasses that since he can level entire cities with ease. All he needs to do is get into the air and shoot a bunch of nukes that will kill Raikage. And that's just Iron Man. Quicksilver is faster than Raikage and like Iron Man, he'll be able to run circles around Raikage without getting touched. Iron Man is also the smartest in this battle, he's too smart, too strong, too fast and has too much firepower to lose. Not to mention he has a much more versatile set of abilities and a large number of advantages such as flight. Also, Naruto said it feels like Raikage's punch was 500 tons, it doesn't mean that it was. It was just a hunch, Naruto has no idea what 500 tons of force feels like anyway. Every statement in a manga shouldn't be taken as the absolute truth. Pain called himself a god, that doesn't mean it was true. Many said Pain was unbeatable, yet he was defeated.  ND

                   

               

500 tons puts him above Namor, Ms. Marvel, and Thing. That's not nothing. Has Thor ever struck Hulk without restrain? Raikage reacted to supersonic/instant attacks before. His reaction speed is far above less than a second. Which is the determining factor. His reaction speed and combat speed is greater than Iron Mans. He's only slower in travel speed. Will Iron Man have time to get off the ground before Raikage blitzes him? Will he even be able to react to someone who can blitz a sharingan user? Pain called himself a god because his powers made him one within the naruto universe. Naruto stated this, not Raikage himself btw.  Spider-Man knocked Tonys mask off before. You don't think Raikage can blitz, do this, and cave his face in?
 
Reaction speed: Raikage can blitz Ninjas whom are superhuman and supersonic. A second is nothing. Humans that aren't anything can react similar to this as well. This is the deciding factor. This is why Raikage makes the first move.  
 
Combat speed: Just because Iron man can move at mach speeds doesn't mean he can fight like a saiyan or hypersonic speeds.  
 
Travel speed: useless here.

@Haofan123: 
His strength and durability feats, off the screen, ect. How do you know he doesn't know what if feels like? It's like a comic character just randomly saying million tons ect because of something similar. Have you ever taken into consideration that he knows what if feels like based on what he does? There's a difference, he lives in a world where he constantly fights superpowered beings while you most likely haven't even attempted to eat a horse. Like I said, Iron Mans reflexes are slower. Raikages going to be the one to move first. Iron mans faster in travel speed, not combat nor reaction speed. Which is the deciding factor here. Yet someone like Spider-Man has struck his mask off his face before? You don't think Raikage can do the same?

@Haofan123: 
Prove to me it's a hyperbole. Also prove to everyone else because this 500 tons/453 metric tons is spreading throughout the Naruto community. And if this is a hyperbole, then most characters feats are hyperboles. Again, how is Iron Man going to get the first hit off? How is his reflexes going to pinpoint Raikage? A bullet may be faster than a person, but if that person moves around + other facts, it's hard to hit them. Even I myself, doubt he can move at hypersonic. I still don't know how fast he actually is.

@StargunZX: 
That's why that logic will only stick to DBZ vs DBZ debates. Against comics or any others, it's all assumptions and speculation. Which is why DBZ is very hard to guage to comics.

@Haofan123: 
Did I not show you a scan above? 1 million lbs = 500 tons. He struck super fox mode Naruto whom was attempting to blitz him and failed with a restrained punch that had no time to charge. Couple this with his speed and it will hurt. Alot.

@Haofan123: 
Show me a scan of this so called "Supersonic" reaction time. Has he ever traded blows with an argueble hypersonic/high level supersonic person that can strike with 500 ton fists without even trying? Characters with planet level durability still gets taken down by fists. Superman for example. If you can go near and escape a black hole, a punch from even a class 100 shouldn't hurt you. Spider-Man, Captain America, and so on have punked Iron man before as he holds back against them. Raikage can do it far easier. Especially with intel.

@Newdeath said:

                    Raikage doesn't stand a chance. The Avengers are way too powerful for just him. Some members can even solo. Namor, War Machine, Iron Man and Ms. Marvel can all solo. Even more so because this is a water dipped Namor which implies that this is Namor at his most powerful. Namor is physically stronger than Raikage, he's even knocked The Hulk (a much more durable and powerful opponent than Raikage) unconscious. War Machine and Iron Man individually have enough firepower to level entire cities with ease, that is more power than Pain used to decimate the Konoha Village. Together they would make short work of Raikage, even individually they would. The amount of weapons in their arsenal is ridiculous, not to mention that Iron Man is ridiculously fast and should be able to run circles around Raikage. Even the Sentry was surprised at Iron Man's level of speed and even called him "fast". Iron Man and War Machine are also stronger than Raikage. Iron Man can move in the excess of Mach 8 and is strong enough to temporarily compete with The Hulk in terms of strength.   A nuke from either Iron Man or War Machine would kill Raikage. Ms. Marvel in her normal state can lift 70 tons and can move at least at Mach 3 speeds. Not to mention Namor, War Machine, Iron Man and Ms. Marvel all have the advantage of flight. They could simply remain airborne and bombard Raikage with their combined firepower.  ND

                   

               

Raikage strikes at 500 tons without using his speed or a fully timed punch. Much higher than Namor or Ironmans strength level. Ironman cannot run circles around Raikage as his reaction speed is far lower as well as combat speed. His armor may be fast, but that means nothing if his reaction speed cannot react to what even ninjas with sharingans can't. IF Iron Man has time to get off the ground or was allowed to make the first move, then yes, he can potentially solo. Otherwise, I don't see them taking Raikage. I'll take out Ms. Marvel however.

@Haofan123: 
Iron man is hypersonic ONLY if he is allowed time to fly. He still has reaction speed of that of a human. I know what Iron man is capable of and what he did. Going from your logic, a person should wait until a bullet is fired in order to dodge it. Raikages a ninja. He will anticipate this and dodge this. His synapse of his cortex region is also superior to Iron mans by far. If anyone's making the first move, it's A.

@MisterShin said:

                    @susanoo:  Which version of Avengers are we using? 

                   

               

The ones I've listed.

@Haofan123: 


 

@all_starsupes said:

                    After reading the OP I'm going with Goku in round 1 as I believe he has a larger base of skills. For the person who said WW is the best combatant in DC, if she's powered down to human level her skills put her no where near the top of the DC rankings. In the second because your including movies I'm also going with Goku. Against Meta Cooler he was able to use IT without having to think about it, so that gives him an edge plus he was taking punches from Hirudegarn which had the power to level city blocks.

                   

               

More than 2 of us have said that. Wonder Womans fighting skills and experience allows her to contend with Superman and easily punk Power girl. Goku's fighting skills haven't shown me anything to suggest that he's even gifted. All he has is his superhuman physical attributes with aided him in his fighting, not skill. Wonder Woman can react at nanosecond speeds and can potentially destroy cities with her strength, speed, and flight.

A (Has both of his arms) 
 
 
vs 
 
Avengers: 
Captain America  
Spider-Man 
Wolverine 
Classic Quicksilver
Iron Man 
Namor (Just got out of the water)  
 
Battlefield: Manhattan.  
Raikage is pissed off that Iron Man threatened him. 
No knowledge on Raikage. Raikage has full intel and knowledge on the team.
 
Who wins?

@Haofan123 said:

                    Why are people using movie feats for goku? they are non cannon and dont count for sh*t. However, im now convinced that Goku is FTL and that he can beat WW

                   

               

I'm still not convinced he is. He's massive hypersonic and has IT to practically teleport once he locks on to an energy signature. Wonder Womans reaction speed is on par with Supermans nanosecond reaction speed because of her attributes and her experience. She can win round 1. It's round 2 I'm really unsure about.

@MisterShin said:

                    IMO Goku Movie feats easily suggest he is FTL 
 
Beams: 
FTL Kamehameha, Goku fired Coola into the Sun from Earth.  
Light takes 8mins to travel between Sun & Earth. 
Same happens again against Broly 
 
Instantaneous Battle: 
Instant Teleporting Battle against Metal Coola 
FTL Reactions were everywhere in the battle, with countering/parrying. 

Strength: 
Goku does not pull planets, but he does pack a punch. 
He has split a mountain with his strength. 
Slowed a stupidly large size of Earth thrown at him by Freiza. 
His Strength exceeds Cell, who Slowed a large Asteroid and destroyed it with his strength.
 
H2H: 
Goku has been a warrior from birth. 
When he landed on Earth, he was trained in the Martial Arts by: 
Grandpa Gohan, Master Roshi, Kami. 
Later he was trained by the Lord of the North Worlds, King Kai in the Art of Kaioken. 
Goku has since developed his own fighting styles and original techniques. 
Having attended many World Martial Arts Tournaments, he has gone up against some of the greatest martial artist Earth has to offer. 
 
Techniques: 
Taiyoken, Kienzan, Kamehameha variations, IT, Kaioken, Spirit Bomb, Dragon Fist, Afterimage Projection, JankenRound 1: 
In H2H, i believe Goku still poses the qualities that can give him a win, in this battle.  
Using Techniques like Taiyoken, IT, Afterimage Projection. He can create opening to really deal some damage, and ultimately end with an epic Dragon Fist. 
This could go either way.
I putting a Tie, just for now.     
(Newdeath thinks Diana is potentially the best martial artist in DC, she exceeds Batman in this field anyway)

Round 2: 
Pretty much the same as above, although Goku can use his devastating energy projection (Kienzan, K-waves).  
An onslaught of Teleportation and  Energy Projection would overwhelm Diana.
 
@mavfan626: This is a good match-up

                   

               

For the instantaneous battle, they were obviously fighting within a different dimension because all they were really doing is fance "teleporting". However, I believe he potentially has ftl reaction speed based on those as well. Wonder Woman is the best martial artist in DC actually. Her fighting skills made her punked characters like Power Girl with ease. Goku's techniques will only delay and buy him time. He's still just massively hypersonic based on showings and not lightspeed like Diana is. I believe he can win the 2nd round with solar flare (ASSUMING this might work on someone who was near the sun), afterimage, and kamehamehas (without wording ofc) however. What still puts Diana above Goku is her physical superiority and her lasso. Her experience as a warrior will allow her to never underestimate and predict the possible next move and map out Goku's powers and techniques. With her speed, she can hang around for a while to observe and counter. Like I said, the second round is incredibly hard to figure who wins.  
 
@StargunZX: 
I'm very well aware of what they did. However, power scaling doesn't work against comics. Whom debates using feats, not assumptions nor speculations. Also, Goku can't survive in a vacuum, Wonder Woman can. If he does decide to destroy Namek (Which goes against his character), then he's suiciding himself. Using the power scaling logic, Goku in SS3 might be able to bust multiple solar systems actually. However, this is again, based on speculation and assumptions. Why is it multiplication? Can it simply just be addition? Can other factors like Vacuum take place? Can mass and density have a say? What about Gravity and Electromagnetism? Time and space? Kid Buu destroyed an entire galaxy by destroying worlds and using his IT to teleport world to world, it's not like the entire galaxy disappeared from existence. If this were the case, his fight with SS3 Goku would've been entirely different.

@Hellos: 
Only speedblitz, doesn't mean speed is negated overall.

Power Scaling ONLY WORKS if your debating about DBZ characters only. Use that as an excuse and text wall there. Against crossover battle threads, it's completely irrelevant. Why? Because it's now based on assumptions and speculation. I'm well aware Roshi destroyed the moon before at a pl of below 200. However, do you seriously know if you should multiply or add? Or even involve real life mass and density into the mix now? Power scaling only works in DBZ vs DBZ threads. Period. Other than this, It's like I said before, it's all assumptions and speculations from here on out. Unless you have a better explanation or arguement, we use this logic. Which actually works.

That being said, I can proceed to who I believe wins and why. 

Wonder Woman wins round 1. She is the best combatant in DC. This vastly seperates her from the other beings on the same teir such as Superman and Power Girl. Goku's fighting skills doesn't matter anymore when he faces beings like Frieza and such. Whom have no combat skills at all. She also has her golden lasso which she can use to do quite a bit of submission moves on Goku. Goku is a great h2h fighter only because of his superhuman attributes, not because of his skill. I've never seen him use techniques that involved grapple to judo to karate. In this case, his superhuman attributes won't help him here as Wonder Woman is physically superior. Her reaction speed is enough to react to Gokus strikes and she break his arm or leg with her fighting prowess. Has Goku ever demostrated such skills with martial arts involving these counters and grapples? No. Goku is arguebly around the strength level of 100-10,000 tons in lifting power. In terms of striking power, I'd estimate around Sentrys (Marvel) level. Wonder Woman is near Supermans level. Which is VASTLY above Sentry. I said it before and I'll say it again, Goku's martial arts prowess is credit to his superhuman attributes, Diana is above him physically so this completely takes this advantage away. Diana wins this round with little difficulty.
 
In round 2, despite there not being any speedblitzes, Wonder Womans reaction speed is on par with Supermans (Nanosecond) due to her superhuman attributes and warrior experience. She also caught professor Zoom before using her speed. However, Goku is massive hypersonic and has instant transmission. He also arguebly has energy attacks that can destroy whole planets due to power scaling logic. Since Dianas reaction speed is greater than Goku based on showings, then she can easily use her tiara and cut his throat with it like she did to Superman before Goku can plan his next move. My scenario? Match starts, bell dings, Diana makes the first move by throwing her tiara. Assuming Goku can react to this, he dodges it and blasts several energy blasts at Diana. She blocks it with her bracelets and they deflect off onto the land. If Goku attemps to h2h Diana, he'll leave with a broken arm and legs. If Goku attemps to use a Kamehameha, Diana will divert it with either her bracelets or preventing him from ever firing it off. Goku can use instant transmission during the long range battle with ki spamming and can land one behind Diana. However, her warrior experience and her superhuman attributes will allow her to notice this and to incapicitate Goku. Goku can win this but it's to a much lesser chance then Diana. 
 
This being said and explain, Diana wins both rounds. Round 1 with ease, and round 2 with moderate difficulty. Goku actually has a chance in round 2 however.

Atem and the 3 egyption god cards: 
  
 
vs 
 
Arceus and the 3 Dragon abstracts:  

 
 
Battlefield: Starts in Egypt. 
 
Who wins?

@Sonata said:

                   

@susanoo: Are you looking for a pic of Goku destroying a planet, if so there isnt one.

                   

               

Not scan but a bold statement similar to Brolys.

The writer of DBZ wrote some sentence stating that Goku can destroy a planet. Can anyone get this for me? Thank you.