supernova7005 (Level 15)

Bye Bye to my friends on AV
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Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Hinata Hyuga vs Rangiku Matsumoto

I think current Inoue may have been a better match

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Off-Topic » Calcs and why they work

@Kurohige said:

That's the problem right there in the first sentence: That is how you perceived that message, "This man has the power to destroy the world!" does not translate to "This man has the power to destroy all life on the planet!" as Dream said "Folks are gonna have different perceptions on how they perceive the scale of specific feats within a title depending on what is shown and/or explained, even if they don't necessarily go along with the author's intentions." also if it was a claim of prime Whitebeard Sengoku would not have brought it up as it had no relevance to the current Whitebeard.

Yeah, exactly. We don't know what the author's intent actually was, so that's what debates are about.

It comes down to how you interpret different statements, but I generally take the low end when they are consistent with the series.

Sensui from YYH stated they must go into the demon world as the Earth can't handle so much strain, we then see earthquakes happen all over Tokyo and we see no humans being killed, even the weaker ones with Botan were fine, they just felt a huge amount of energy. Even so there are calcs to determine his power and show it was hyperbole.

The earthquakes occured because of Koenma's pacifier, not Sensui's own power. Sensui was suppressing himself the entire time on Earth.

As for the Forest of Death, again, if those are given then yes we scale from it since it wont contradict the feat anyways, however how often are those given? How do you determine Haku's speed? Or Sasuke and itachi when they were throwing the kunai? It's all speculation at that point. All pixel scaling is is finding a somewhat precise estimate of the feat on the paper. Look at Bleach characters and their speed, how would you determine that without speculating? Unless you calc it you would never even be able to determine how fast a flash step is from anyone. Again, not perfect but better than just looking at it and saying "yeah that looks more impressive so he is stronger"

If the numbers aren't given, we simply can't calc their speeds.

In bleach as you said for example, we can use peak human reactions to get a timeframe and we also have multipliers like Ichigo's bankai increasing his speed by 5-10x. We can also use the size of Las noches to determine the speed of Lanza. Then again, we have numbers given for current Ichigo.

As for Haku's speed, we have to say its below supersonic because chunin exams Sasuke (with CS1) was the first one to dodge sound.

Pixel scaling is inconsistent because a particular length can be scaled using different objects, thus giving varied numbers (one of the reasons OBD calcs keep changing from time to time). And especially for speed, since the numbers are too small and could lead to a huge variance. one example is getting timeframe of milliseconds from free fall.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Byakuya Kuchiki (Post-Timeskip) vs Itachi (Prime)

Post-skip depends on which version of Byakuya you're talking about. Pre-RG Byakuya probably loses if speed is equalised.

Current Byakuya would win via hype.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Naruto vs Renji

@Amaziah00 said:

@kurohige Why are they even comparing a post fodder. To someone who's KCM&Bijuu>>>>Ichigos transformations excluding (HIS NEW BANKAI AT THE MOMENT) had to type it in bold so wankers can see it over there clouded judgement.

He isn't beating current or transcedent Ichigo lol. You're the one who is wanking :D

Renji is hard to scale, so idk about this battle.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Byakuya Kuchiki & Sesshōmaru VS Hiei

Scenario 1: Byakuya solos

S2: Hiei blitzes. Speed equal, idk.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Off-Topic » Calcs and why they work

@Kurohige said:

@supernova7005: Character statements are almost never taken seriously, if we went by your logic Whitebeard would be a planet buster since that was never contradicted, he held back the entire war and was dying so he may have not had a chance to use his full power. Statements are also not author statements and can be used by any character including cocky ones who are known to exaggerate. Authors may not draw to scale but they do draw a building being much larger than a person and how much space on the street it takes up. Like I said it's not perfect but its better and more practical than saying "Whoa look at how big that explosion was, that is far above what that character can do, that explosion is clearly mountain level!" based on nothing. In cross-series vs matches pixel scaling is the most practical, most people don't like it because it makes another series look weaker than they thought or another look stronger than they thought. Again, not perfect but better than what we have been using, how else did you guys come up with hypsonic-massively hypersonic speed?

Whitebeard was never stated to be a planet buster. Destroying the world doesn't necessarily mean planet busting, as it could simply mean lifewiping the planet (same case with YYH). Moreover, that was an implication of prime WB's power.

There are numbers given in the manga to calculate speed. For example, in Naruto we know that the forest of death is 20km long and the timeframe was stated to be 1 sec, which can be used to calculate FRS and Pain's reaction speed.

Though we can go by pixel scaling for some DC calcs, getting speed from pixel scaling is highly erroneous since the timeframes are extremely small. Even a small variation could lead to huge variances in the results.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Naruto vs Renji

@Kurohige said:

@supernova7005: Or just one, one bijuudama deflected 5 mountain level ones. Renji was doing no better than the other two captains until he used his new bankai, before that it was pretty much the same thing as far as damage to him goes. He needed that new bankai to block that city block level attack. We have not seen enough of his bankai either, we have nothing to even scale it's power from.

Actaully there is something solid to scale from. Renji defeated a guy who one-shotted two near-senior captains.

We know Stark explicitly admits that his ceros aren't strong enough to hurt guys as strong as Love and Rose, but we clearly see Base Mask's beam blasting a hole clean through Rose's chest. Even Stark's wolves couldn't put Rose down.

Hence we can conclude Base MDM > Released Stark, and Base MDM's star beam > Cero Metralletta and exploding wolves.

Now James cheers and Mask gets a 10x boost. Renji blocks a punch 10x stronger than the one which defeated Bankai Kensei.

Now James further cheers several times and MDM goes Vollstndig. Renji goes Bankai and tanks his Supernova beam.

After all these powerups, its quite safe to assume Renji is far above Stark and Ulquiorra, the likes of who are atleast Island level.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Yoruichi and Byakuya vs Kurama

But YYH has characters who can beat Raditz xD

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Off-Topic » Calcs and why they work

@Kurohige said:

@supernova7005: So what they say is 100% undeniable fact, but what they draw is irrelevant(Lightspeed Haku, below lightspeed Flash)? Amaterasu is not as hot as the sun and neither you nor Kishi will change that unless he draws new chapters where the flame actually, you know, affects its environment in ways sun-like heat would. The is also a different between a quantifying a statement and a quantifying visual as seen in most of the battles on here not using the method. The other problem with that method is that it requires the story itself to do tell you the stats of the characters in this case here it's "Ichigo can run a day until he feels tired" ergo he and his friends must have run a day's worth of running because they got tired and you get a result from that.If you don't get the statement you won't get the result and most manga don't give nice tidy statements. Again, it's not perfect but it's the best we have for battles here, mainly cross-series debates.

I never said what they say is always a 100% fact.

Statements can be used as long as they don't contradict what is shown on panel. They should be used on a case-by-case basis.

On the other hand, pixel scaling shouldn't be used as writer's never draw to scale

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Naruto vs Renji

I think this is a good matchup. Renji maybe able to take it with high diff, looking at the ease with which he beat Mask.

It'll take atleast 2 or 3 Bijuudamas to take down Renji.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Off-Topic » Calcs and why they work

Pixel-scaling doesn't work in case of manga scans lol. This is the reason OBD got Jupiter sized countries and Multi-Continent level, sub-relativistic Juubito.

Going by the author's intent and portrayal is more inportant

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Mask de Masculine vs Naruto Uzumaki

I guess Current Renji should be able to beat Naruto, looking at the ease with which he incinerated Mask.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » 3rd Raikage (Naruto) vs Younger Toguro (YHS)

Younger Toguro takes this once he goes 100%

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Hiei Vs Piccolo

Hiei probably loses since he doesn't have the DC to hurt moon level characters.

If it was Kurama, I'd lean towards him because of hax

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Yoruichi and Byakuya vs Kurama

@GeneralVan said:

@xBankaiChrisx: Yes he would. Pretty easily at that. If this was Shinobu Sensui of course and not Minoru or Kazuya. There is no one that can hurt him and no one can tank his attacks.

Yamamoto's Bankai says hi. Good luck tanking 15 million degrees.

True that there isn't anyone who can tank his attacks, but the sheer numbers and hax would be too much for him to take alone.

Not to mention he is faster than anyone in Bleach. And Dangai Ichigo and Monster Aizen are NOT S Class. They are lucky to be A class. And R2 Ulquiorra is low A class at the absolute most. Also full power Juubito is EoS Yusuke - 3 Kings Level.

Juubito should be Sensui's level overall. Though he has higher DC, Sensui makes up for it with his speed

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Off-Topic » What's Going Through you Mind Right Now?

Winter vacation finally comes to an end. Need to get back to work tomorrow.

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15
Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15
Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Battles » Yoruichi and Byakuya vs Kurama

@hitsusatsu11 said:

Ulq. country busting and juubito continent level seem exaggerated to me but both calcs are solid.

If i had to assign levels I would put ulq at island level, juubito and maybe eos yusuke at country level.

True, but continent level Juubito comes from pixel-scaling. IMO, I see it like this-

R2 Ulquiorra / Upper A class demons - Island level

Dangai Ichigo / Sensui / lower S classes - multi Island to small country

Juubito / mid S classes - Country

EoS Yusuke / Three kings - Continent+

Post by supernova7005 (1,966 posts) See mini bio Level 15

Las Noches » Size of Las Noches and destructive power of Ulquiorra

@Dream said:

Small city at most for the feat, and that is assuming the fortress is the size of a large city. Not buying the small country hype you're making a big deal about with what I've brought up during our last discussion on the matter.

If you feel Island/small country is not possible just because 'Bleach can't be so strong', then that's your opinion. I'd go by canon statements and what's shown in the Manga, especially when Kubo has used that scene (almost half a chapter) solely for the purpose of depicting its size.

I'm not making a big deal out of it. Just presenting what's shown in the manga.

Dragon Ball at least had the onscreen feats to show that stronger characters could bust planets. On the other hand, Bleach is more dubious when it comes to getting a sense of the scale of many onscreen feats due to how Kubo draws and writes his manga,

I am only saying that this logic of AoE is wrong. Just because Dangai Ichigo never showed any feats, doesn't mean Ulquiorra can't be Island level.

Take an example of YYH. The only impressive feats in the series came from Sensui, and no major feats were shown after Chapter Black. So just because EoS Yusuke doesn't show any feats doesn't mean Sensui is not that strong.

hence why you have folks like me, CerusSerenade or Whats_out_the_bag disputing you whenever possible in any instance a Bleach character is involved in a match.

CerusSerenade purposely downplays any verse that eh doesn't like. Once he was saying RAVE characters are only building level. And Whats out the bag did agree to it later when I showed him further evidence to support the statement.

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