I'm not going to try to change your opinion, but look at earlier post saying why Shadow would win on I believe the first page... weigh the evidence.
I'm not going to start an argument here with you, because it would result in a long drawn out discussion such as the one I had above... but I will tell you this, you're not looking at the bleach sides abilities. When you make comparisons, look at both sides powers.
Oh, and Madara's sharingon can see through genjutsu, but what Aizen uses isn't genjutsu. Genjutsu is the manipulation of chakra in the brain, Aizen just puts you under permanent hypnosis. And because Bleach characters have no chakra network, Genjutsu wouldn't work on them, UNLESS the people debating decided to take away some of bleach's powers, as we ^^^ did earlier in this dicussion. You know, like Yammy's Gonzui which would allow him to suck up all their souls, and reiatsu crush, so we still had to go easy on the Naruto side.
In other words, look at both sides with a fair eye. ;)
Unless you're not talking about our universe, its more like 100- 200 billion galaxies.
First off, Yoshi isn't going to cast a ketz in Sonic's brain. Not only has he never demonstrated such precision, but he's never even thought about something like that. If he could, the first half of the anime wouldn't have happened because he would of fucked them up with the technique you just mentioned in that matter. Also, even if he could or would, Sonic is too fast for him to pinpoint with a ketz... considering that BASE Sonic can move up to light speeds, he's not going to ketz him.
Also, it has been proven time and time again that the main weakness of the kekkaishi is their inability to cope with his speed characters with attacks that shred things. Thats also a perfect description of Sonic.
As for the shinkai, it makes him a mid to high tier reality warper (which isn't a bad thing) but it doesn't extend its control outside of the said of it. Also, as I said earlier, with Sonic's speed, he's not getting caught inside of it. Its that simple... Yoshi would have to find a way to trap him before that would happen. Now, lets look at the actual shinkai. First off, the shinkai uses a shitload of spirit energy... which means that it would tire even Yoshi out, if he uses it constantly. There's also the fact that Yoshi's only demonstrated only demonstrated its destructive power once, and that was on Kaguro... which even you have to admit, is a far cry from an invincible FTL hedgehog. You also make the no limits fallacy, the shinkai is undoubtedly powerful, but I doubt he's reality warping something that could repair space/time just by running, in BASE form... while he's in his super form and is invincible, and a high tier reality warper himself. Even if Sonic was at all of Yoshi's mercy, and the shinkai wasn't in anyway limited to Yoshi's abilities, he would still have to catch him.
This is why the Zekkai would be more useful here... first off, its something Yoshi could maintain for much longer, and unlike the Ketz or shinkai, which are negated by Sonic's speed, the Zekkai would serve to protect him while he's fighting. Now admittedly, it doesn't make him a high level reality warper like the Shinkai does, but its far more practical with speed characters and is actually something that Yoshi uses in combat, unlike the Shinkai.
Meanwhile, while observing the OP powers of Yoshi, lets look at Sonic. Here you have, a massively hypersonic hedgehog, who, in BASE form has reached speeds from supersonic to FTL(although him moving FTL in fights are rare, but he can move lightspeed continuously in a fight) He can turn into a ball and move through the air in said ball at speeds ranging from Supersonic to LS (or FTL) He can also run fast enough to repair time/space (Sonic Generations) and travel time (Sonic CD) His speed makes him a low tier reality warper.
With a chaos emerald, he is a low to mid tier reality warper who can manipulate time/space...
In his super form, he's a nigh omnichronological (Sonic 06, where he existed through 1/3 of time) FTL-MFTL hedgehog who has tanked damage from multiple timelines at the same time, can tank hits from a being powerful enough to rip a planet apart, teleport something half the size of the space colony ark without losing power (although his super form has gotten much stronger since SA2) and manipulate time/space to a degree at least 1/3 of what Solaris demonstrated..... In other words, high tier multiversal. Oh, and invincibility.
The anime version is his weakest with only the power to stop a universal blast in his super form.
Now, don't confuse what i'm saying here, I never said that Sonic would beat Yoshi or vice/versa... it would be TOO weird a fight for me to judge. I merely said that Yoshi's shinkai wouldn't be his best weapon against Sonic, seeing how its not a combat based ability, and isn't versatile enough to be used in a fight continously. At best, his shinkai would only defend him from Sonic, making it a stalemate...
And why are we on Kekkaishi...? LOL.
Ummm..... LOL, sure... however we need to clear something up first. Namely, I am not an Asura fanboy, as I believe that many verses would rape Asura. However, what you seem to fail to understand in your quest to insult me was that I made that claim based off what I had seen throughout this thread (not the opposite as you seem to believe) Even you have to admit that most of the feats shown are sized based, which lead me to conclude that scaling would change the odds. No fanboyism there, only deductions based off what i've seen here. Could I have been wrong? Certainly, but don't pretend to know that my assertion was baseless, and/or made because I liked Asura, because I didn't.
As for the rest of that comment, considering that my only assertion was that Asura would win if he was scaled, the rest of that was truly pointless.
Thats all, bye.
LOL, is everyone simply ignoring the fact that the characters have been SCALED TO SIZE. If they're both the same size, Asura GODSTOMPS easily. Asura destroyed a being about the size of the planet while human sized. And even matched the beam of the bramastra for a while. If their the same size, Asura wins.
You may notice from my post that I am getting seriously bored now lol :)
LOL, me too. thats exactly 1 of the reasons why I don't reply for days. Its gets boring and sometimes I just don't feel like it. However, instead of trying to come up with a refutation, how about a truce? As I'm sure both of us could go back and forth with this for, well a long time. So, Agree to disagree?
On another note, do you have a PSN, and Naruto Generations?
There's something wrong with the infinite tsukyomi. Namely, it hasn't been used yet and thus we have no idea how the technique ACTUALLY works. By that I mean preparation time, ect... Also, this is going to be the 2nd cheapest thing i've said in this debate but I do indeed doubt that genjutsu would work on Bleach characters because they have no chakra network. Genjutsu is the manipulation of chakra in the cranial nerves, and while we did do the chakra= reishi to prevent soul crush, its definitely not the same thing.
As for Shui's eye, the same thing can be said about genjustu not working... but even if genjutsu works, who will he manipulate? Also, the parameters in which the technique can be used a very sparse and isn't elaborated on. Do you have to be close, look him directly in this eye, or what? If you know, SPILL THE BEANS!!!
And what I'm getting at, is that the only time the explosion worked was when he was sealed in a small box. Out in the open, Barragon should be able to age the attack, enough to survive at least. And 10 tails can't shoot multiple tailed beast bombs at once, which means it can be avoided.
It being a replacement or an octopus tentacle hardly changes anything. First off, that tentacle did have 1 tail worth of chakra(As it was used to help resurrect 10 tails) , which means that its was apart of the 8 tails that was actually chopped off. Also, you keep mentioning the 4 tails, which would be understandable if the Narutoverse was ruled by powerscaling. But its not... There are 3 types of tailed beast manifestations seen so far. The chakra form (naruto and bee demonstrated), the next form (where the blood manifests on the skin- by both bee and Naruto) and the fulled tailed beast form. My reasoning for mentioning this is simple... Killer be has indeed the tailed beast form analogous to 4 tails, which means that he did at one point have a form with the same "flesh" consistency as Naruto's. However, using your logic, because Killerbee used the FULL tailed beast form, Sasuke shouldn't have been able to cut him at all. Thats obviously not he case, as I shall once again note that FULL tailed beast modes appear to have the consistency of actual flesh, showing the ability to be cut. Either sasuke was mega powerful, or the tailed beast can be cut. Having said that, considering that gin is made of spirit particles, and that even with the "reishi- chakra" to prevent soul crush, that doesn't change the fact that his blade is still a soul slayer, (zanpakuto). In laymen's terms, its not a normal sword. It Should be able to peirce just about anything in the Narutoverse except the mirror Itachi's susanoo wields (only thing that comes to mind now) Furthermore, his sword can extend kilometers out, which means if the sword can pierce the Juubi, then if he transforms a few kilometers worth of his sword into that poison dust inside of the Jubbi, its over. The healing factor is over Shadowed by the fact that Aizen had incredible healing, but only a "tiny" chink of gins sword was enough to "kill" him.
1. Oh no, i'm not underestimating Madara at all. He's powerful, but all of his techniques can be countered, except for to my knowledge, his genjutsu. this is probably why he'd be Aizens opponent. Indulging in our little, "Aizen vs Madara" battle for a bit, its true that Madara is a casual mountain buster, but so is Aizen... when he uses his kido of course. His Zanpakuto is also key, seeing as, despite all of his power, there's nothing Madara can do about that. Susanoo's protection is perfect for outside attacks, but not so perfect for inside, as Aizen could summon one of those black boxes inside of his susonoo (forgot the name of the damn thing) I know it won't work, merely demonstrating a weakness there.
Also, I'll say it once more, I did not underestimate Madara, merely decided that all of his abilities could be countered by espada 1-7 in some form or fashion. Sure he can take souls, and what not. But if we allowed Madara to do that, then why not just end the fight before it begins, and let Yammy suck out all of their souls like he did the people of Katakura town. It would most certainly save team Aizen trouble. I wouldn't make a claim without some sort of reasoning behind it, I only just named 1 right there.
2. LOL, I've already conceded to that point for the sake of the argument only(as I'm still trying to find the databook) because it doesn't make a difference anyway. The sword is still several kilometers long, is fast enough to overwhelm Ichigo whose faster than all but the FASTEST in Naruto and still has a basically 1 scratch kill poision. No prob there. As for speed, Tobi "keeping up" is hardly a factor considering that 1, he was teleporting, and 2... he got his ass handed to him (so fun to watch :) ) Keeping up, as you say Itachi and Nagato did, doesn't make them as fast, especially not in comparison to bleach characters.
3. And what will he do if the genjutsu works by pointing his finger at him. Most certainly not make him see things, LOL. Tosen "sees" with reiatsu, which means that he won't be at all confused about the location of his enemies and things of that nature. Also, its going to be hard to do some of those things while he's either asleep or blind, deaf, and devoid of chakra sense within Tosen's bankai. Sakura could dodge iron sand attacks and many puppets, and she, like most naruto characters are only low level super humans. Tosen is much faster, so avoiding it to my knowledge should be easy.
Also, you imply that he can't win by putting them to sleep. No, just no. Itachi MIGHT be an exception because of his susanoo's mirror, but everyone else is destroyed by that technique alone, including Madara. Sure, he freed his blade with it, but that sure as hell didn't stop him from deliberately using it against Uryu did it, LOL. It will work against them just fine. You don't have to reply to the Tosen solo'ing Madara pt if you feel like that, but that doesn't change the fact that the attack would work just fine.
4. Of course I saw it. I think I know a little about my favorite anime... Having said that, the bleach characters have dodged, MUCH faster. You saw how the 1st espada dodged his reflected cero from Ukitake, who had increased the already great speed. Most Bleach characters have speed feats putting them above Naruto.
5. You know my opinion on Barragon's aging so I won't repeat myself, however you're wrong about him being able to move. The reason he doesn't normally move is because he doesn't have to in order to win. But he can move... did you see when he attacked Aizen in Hueco Mundo... that was movement. Considering that his sonido outclassed Soifon in BASE, his release would be much faster... Who says that he wouldn't use his respira on 10 tails, aiming for something so big that hardly moves can't be too difficult.
Also, i can understand that you don't think that Barragon would be able to age a tbb, but a flurry of susanoo arrows?!?! PLEASE!!! I mean, we've both done our fair share of underestimating in this debate, but susonoo arrows overwhelming respira? No, just no, no, no, no, no, no... Need I remind you that THE ONLY destruction attack that even came hit him was a small nuke shot at point blank range while he was trapped in a tiny box, and it only succeeded in a CRACK that he wasn't even bothered by? SUSANOO ARROWS!?!?!?!?! >:O
6. We agree for the most part, however, I doubt an opponent like Hallibel will get close if she notices that her reiatsu is draining... But yes, opponents without hax (Zommari, barragon, ect...) aren't a bad matchup... but a battle with kisame won't decide the overall victory, whether he wins or not...
7. I regularly watch and read Naruto, so yes, I know. However you made a remark about his destruction abilities... not him absorbing his destruction abilities. Also, while he can absorb energy and things of that nature, he's more likely to use almighty push to repel first (don't know why the FUCK he would do so but hey) giving an opening for physical combat that he can't hope to match. And as I mentioned earlier, his speed is hardly factor, as i'm assuming that you don't think he's faster than Ulquiorra..... I hope.
8-9. Hidan isn't that fast, even for Naruto standards. In base form Yammy would destroy him, I mean ignore his retarded appearance and what not, but this same person busted an arrancar's head open with a punch... Even if Hidan does get blood, if he gets close enough to do so, he gets smashed before he can lick it and get back to his circle. There's also Yammy's bala and cero to think about. Oh and there's the fact that he wouldn't even be able to touch Yammy's hierrio, eliminating the chance of getting blood, even with a direct hit.
10. Errrrrrr.... yeah he is. This was a direct statement AND demonstration as to his speed. He's that fast. His heirrio is enough to protect him from shuriken and things of that nature without flinching.
As for his "amor", I will say it as I previously have, it has no stated limits. The abilities were explained and demonstrated thoroughly... It stills the sovereignty of whatever it looks at and gets 1 object per eye. If it gets the head then the rest follows. There has been no stated power limit... Actually, yes, I believe the attack will work against anyone he can use it against, it just unlikely that they won't be able to counter and kill him before he can do otherwise, or stun him with their spiritual pressure. But thats within bleach. When comparing them to Naruto you have no such luxuries. Also, I've already refuted this spiritual pressure thing. First of all, the only thing that this chakra= reishi thing does is keep the Naruto characters from getting soul crushed and allowing them to touch eachother. That doesn't make it the same thing, nor does it equate Naruto characters with feats from bleach. Also, even within bleach there have been MANY, MANY, instances where a weak character can harm or perhaps kill a stronger one. I've already proven this in another argument I had on this page.
11. He actually explained this during the fight. When Renji and Uryu trapped him with Uryu's quince technique(forgot the name) he survived and explained that he was able to analyze his spiritual pressure, ect... to "reduce the damage"
12. How about getting the hell out the way with sonido? And how is it that Madara and Itachi are all over the battle field? Oh nevermind, I know exaclty why.
13. Glad to hear it, but the fact that you thought I was joking means that you either underestimate him or that you haven't seen the cero in his release form (wasn't even his largest form btw) He created a cero that easily surpasses the 9+ 8 tailed tailed beast bomb in power and destruction. I would go so far as saying it rivals 10 tails, but the way it was used (pointing it at the ground) I can't make the statement, and it would hardly make a difference anyway.
14. Sure, who though? No one but the Juubi has more destructive power on that team, and I doubt Yammy would so easily give up his blood, as I stated earlier.
Yes, that was a mistake on my part, I don't know why I said that, despite having posted the exact same thing you're referring to. However there are more examples. When aizen slashed Hallibel, when he attacked and incapacitated several vizards with only his illusions. He later confirmed that they were illusions by stating when he had first started to use them(the illusion)
Well thats all, for now... Oh, and if its a little sloppy, its because I was trying to get finished with it... i've posted enough for 1 day.
Saying that Ulquiorra wins without even providing an argument is hardly a reason for me to agree. Also, if you didn't notice, Shadow gets his feats from the games AND anime in this battle. The game provides teleportation, and reality warping, while the anime provides what anime normally does, namely over exaggerated destructive power and endurance... Ulquiorra's not winning against shadow without something to counter his teleportation and chaos rift. Let alone the fact that anime shadow godstomps Ulquiorra in physical feats...
True, Shadow's endurance in the games isn't as great as the anime. The anime feats make up for his endurance. With his rings off he's much stronger, and would only be defeated easily if he had them off for long periods of time. In Sonic X, he was able to fight for while with them off for what we can assume was days, and in the games, he showed no immediate exhaustion from using full power against Mephiles. But I do agree that fighting Ulquiorra without them isn't advised, and considering that Shadow doesn't use full power unless he has to, I doubt he would risk it. Besides, Shadow without full power has provided the feats to defeat Ulquiorra.
What I've noticed is nothing less of a double standard... which of course isn't your fought. However, OP techniques on the Bleach side like soul crush etc... hasn't been acknowledged, while the Naruto team gets to keep their OP techniques. No I don't have a problem with this because Aizen's Team Espada has enough hax to win in my opinion. But just had to throw that out there.
I agree with pretty much everything you said about Aizen. One thing you didn't include on though was his immense skills with kido. His fire kido(which I forgot the name of) which he used to counter a lightning kido a hundred years ago was easily a small mountain... and that was without an incantation. However thats just something to add.
As for Itachi, i'm not underestimating Itachi at all. However, you have to understand "why" I haven't made an effort to refute genjutsu in my other comments. To put it simply, genjutsu is the manipulation of chakra through the brain, which doesn't make it any less deadly, However, as you must know... Aizens Zanpakuto doesn't manipulate chakra. There's only one way to escape it, and I don't think there's anyway they'd ever figure it out. Aizen's illusions are on a whole other level for these reasons.
a). Its permanent, meaning there's no escape
b). It can be felt, evident when Aizen attacked the 3rd Espada and some of the vizards. The first parts of which, were an illusion.
c). Itachi has no way of knowing when its being used and even if he did there's no escape.
Now, if its a genjutsu battle you want then Aizen's zanpakuto will keep him safe for the most part. Aizen will be safe from most of Itachi's genjutsu if he doesn't look at his eyes, and if he uses his speed or way of destruction(or some other kido) to block or evade amatsaratu.
More on the Genjutsu battle, if Itachi can trap Aizen under his genjutsu, (Izanami) then all Aizen has to do, is accept the reality of what he's done. Once he realizes that things are repeating itself over and over again, he'll probably figure out how to get out (which I stated in the previous sentence) and given his high intellect, thats not out of the question. However, not knowing Aizen's abilities, (battle parameters) I very much doubt that he'll know about Aizen's zanpakuto until its to late, meanwhile Aizen will probably already know what he needs to about Itachi.
Now if Aizen traps Itachi first(most likely) then Aizen has won the battle of genjutsu. Similar to what he did to the captains and vizards, he'll probably troll Itachi and as many as possible, while taking out some others at the same time. (reference to how "he" took down 2 lieutenants by pretending he was Momo + momo herself by nearly getting her killed) Itachi has no way to counter that one, as he did Kurenai's(whatever her name is) because it doesn't manipulate the chakra network. Therefor Itachi would be trapped within the troll sequence. Also, the Izanami Eye would close forever, sooooooo...... I don't see him using unless he absolutely thought he would catch aizen, AND knowing Aizen, Itachi would've only caught an illusion.
I acknowledge the strength of Itachi's genjutsu, but I don't think it would work against permanent control. Also, taking into account the circumstances that their abilities were used, Aizen's spamming his zanpakuto like he always does... I mean I think we can both agree on that much. I just don't see Itachi winning the "illusion" fight.
I think Itachi's chances of winning are much better with susonoo. Where he's protected from Aizen's kido and can't be attacked, for the most part..... However, one must also keep in mind that it doesn't change the fact that he won't be protected by illusions. Aizen will use illusions, spam, troll, and then go in for an opening. Also, with the speed that bleach characters command, those attacks are aviodable... And I see no reason why he couldn't summon the kido (black box spell or whatever) that he normally uses inside of susanoo... If it hit, I don't see Itachi surviving.
Thats normal Itachi, Edo tensei Itachi requires that the caster be defeated, sealed(most probable), aged by Barragon, or controlled by Zommari. I personally don't know what the hell the creator of the forum was thinking by giving them their Edo tensei versions AND ten tails... but a victory is still possible.
Sasuke solo'ing Menos is understandable, but so is an espada solo'ing the Zetsu army. Its more appropriate to let the weaklings battle weaklings, and let powerhouses like sasuke duke it out with the Espada...
Zommari, could likely control the 10 tails.
Gin, with a sword as long as his would be able to use massive amounts of poison.
Barragon's abilities are obvious... and overpowered.
Aizen's zanpakuto can turn it against its own allies as well...
Well thats all for now, bye.
Before I get started, i've got to say that its awesome that two of my favorite characters from both series' are put against eachother. Its a weird matchup, but a good one nevertheless. Now...
Now, having said that, it should be kinda obvious that Shadow is the winner here... I mean come on. The only way one would say Ulquiorra wins is if they,
a) haven't watched the anime or played the games...
b) are biased
c) has extremely little to no knowledge of Shadow...
One person said Shadow dies horribly, well you'll see why thats not true. Having said that, its time to provide the arguments...
According to the battle rules they don't have any of their super transformations... (although Ulquiorra keeping his would have been more than fair...) and Shadow gets feats from Sonic X AND the games. The fact that they're both in BASE form kinda makes this an easy win for shadow.
One very important reason for Shadow's victory is the fact that Shadow has greater combat speed and strength. In the games, Shadow moves anywhere from Super/Hypersonic (normal moving speeds) to lightspeed and FTL (Lightspeed attack and chaos snap) BASE form Ulquiorra is only hypersonic+, which is enough to keep up with Shadow's normal speed, but not quite enough to keep up with his teleportation, or charged lightspeed attack. Combat speed has a clear winner here, and its shadow.
While game Shadow's feats in the area of strength are maxed out at flipping buses with 1 hand, in Sonic X, Shadow overpowered in strength. His greatest feat of physical power, was his "tug or war" with the Final Nova... Essentially, a dragon attached to a small planet wrapped an "arm" around Shadow and Shadow managed to pull against the "arm" with his physical strength alone. Thats like one of us wrapping a long rope around a small moon, and actually managing to pull said rope towards you. The weight of a small planet was behind it, and yet, Shadow demonstrated the strength to pull it towards him.
Lightspeed Attack slams into the opponent at lightspeeds, making it nigh impossible to dodge, AND adding a HUGE amount of force behind the attack. Ulquiorra would have a gaping hole in his stomach if the attack hit him. Fortunately for him it takes about 2-3 seconds to charge during gameplay.
His homing attacks frequently shred through metal, and in Sonic X, has enough force to slam into Metarex space ships to push them back.
Shadow has two major feats of endurance. The first, is in both the games and the show, where Shadow survives atmospheric re-entry, which is pretty self explanatory. The second one worth noting is when Shadow tanks a kick from knuckles in the anime. Now, in the Anime, Knuckles is strong enough to punch the moon hard enough to move it. Although I doubt the same force was used against Shadow, its not something to be taken lightly. Having said that, Shadow got up from the kick like nothing ever happened.
He was also able to tank lasers from a fleet of Metarex ships.
ENERGY BASED ATTACKS
Shadow's Energy based attacks aren't quite as impressive as Ulquiorra's cero and Bala, but they aren't to be underestimated. His chaos lance (spear in X) are as powerful in destruction to Yammy's Bala and Cero. If you've seen sonic X, Shadow has caused massive destruction in the Metarex saga with his spears...
His chaos blast would be more powerful by powerscaling, and is at least city block.
The creator was right to not include his super form, as that would be completely one sided, however Shadow still has his 1 BASE reality warping ability. "Chaos Rift" In the game, its a 60% chance of INSTANT KO, and thats not full power. Of course, common sense would tell us thats just a gameplay mechanic, but i'll be generous here.
Shadow's feats of destruction includes:
destroying several Metarex ships with indivisual "homing attacks"
LOL, expecting more weren't you?
With full power, shadow has 3 major feats.
1st, Shadow takes them off to defeat Mephiles and hundreds of "perfect" chaos empowered clones. Keep in mind, 1 Mephiles was enough to fight on par with normal BASE Shadow. But hundreds, and he did it by merely dashing through them.
2nd, In Sonic X, Shadow 1 shots the "omnipresent" (he was only nigh omnipresent on that specific battle field)... Keep in mind, the entire Sonic group, ( ring enhanced Sonic, Knuckles, battle ship tails, air plane chris, ect...)
3rd, In Sonic X, Shadow took off his rings and 1 shot many Metarex ships, and the explosion he created was analogous to Soifons bankai, though it looked slightly larger. Now, if Ulquirorra had his second release that feat would be horse shit, BUT... he doesn't, so no...
Combat speed: Shadow 1 Ulquiorra 0
Strength: Shadow 1 Ulquiorra 0
endurance: Shadow 1 Ulquiorra 0
energy attacks: Shadow 1 Ulquiorra 2( has greater variety and destruction)
reality warping: Shadow 1 Ulquiorra 0
Destrution: Shadow 2 Ulquiorra 1
( Reason for this is because both have nice destruction capabilities, but with his rings off Shadow his clearly superior to BASE Ulquiorra)
total: Shadow: 7 Ulquiorra: 3
So, overall, Shadow is the better fighter... Also, because I'm sure at least 1 of you will deny these feats, I'm more than willing to provide proof, so all you have to do is ask. well, thats all for now.
2. It does move at those speeds, observe...
Here, Ichigo notes the speed of Gins Bankai... And he tells Ichigo that its 500 times the speed that was demonstrated earlier. Weather its 500X the speed of sound or just 500 times that speed doesn't matter to me really. The speed demonstrated by bleach characters is unrivaled in Naruto except for only the VERY FASTEST. (A, yellow flash, ect...) 500 times that speed is beyond impressive. But on to the point...
Now, lets examine whats being said. Clearly Gin has lied to Aizen about something, which is expected, because he intended to kill him from the start. But whatever lie he told Aizen, whatever that is, we have no idea weather or not he was referring to the same thing he said to Ichigo. When he was talking to Ichigo, we know that he wasn't lying about the length of the blade, because Ichigo confirmed the many Km of his sword by referencing how he basically chopped katakura town in half. Its likely that the abilities he described to Ichigo are its true abilities. And that whatever he told Aizen had been exaggerated farther than what he told Ichigo. Either way, his sword is more destructive and moves much faster than all in Naruto, and the poison makes Sasori's look like it was invented by a child.
3. We were both impulsive with this statement. Allow me to clarify, my argument here was that Sharingon eye techniques won't work on Tosen. At least not the ones require you to look directly at him. Also, I didn't say he solo's, I said he solo's MOST with his bankai. Sasori, Hidan, Kukazu, Madara are some of the top of my head he could solo withease.
As for Kisame, the only senses he would have in Tosens bankai is touch. I doubt he's anywhere near Zaraki Kenpachi's level to counter it the way he did, whose faster and much stronger physically. The same goes for Kisame's sword too, which is alive. Because reishi is equal to chakra, the sword won't be able to even sense Tosen 'chakra/reishi" because in the Bleachverse, Tosen's bankai takes away your ability to sense spirit energy. Kisame's not putting him in a water prison if he can't see him. The water bubble won't work either because, Tosen could simply fly into the air if he needed to. The water bubble didn't demonstrate the ability to fly into the air, but Tosen can do so with ease to eascape.
However, who says he needs to use his Bankai, he can use his shikai to kill most everyone on the Madara's team...
He could use "cry" to put his enemies to sleep, and they would be at his and team Aizen's mercy.
He could then use his flying locust technique to rain swords on his enemies. What would Team madara do if they're sleep? Nothing. The only person resisting this technique (me being generous here) is the 10 tails and thats assuming he either can't hear or is immune to being put to sleep, LOL.
If its more destruction, then he could use his "release" to compensate, in which he gains abilities easily at Biju level in destruction. Its clear you underestimated Tosen. He may not be the strongest in the Bleachverse, but in the Narutoverse his abilities are perfect.
4. Stark: can easily dodge a tailed beast bomb. I mean easily. However, his wolves are perfect for the other characters. Especially in Deidara's case. Not only is he fast enough to easily avoid his explosions, but he could easily counter with the wolves. The flying abilities of bleach characters provide a HUGE advantage to team Aizen.
5. Barragon: As I said above, his abilities are perfect for this fight. Especially 10 tails, Madara and all other Susanoo users. Once again it seems as if its the Juubi to the rescue, seeing how no other could actually stop his powers. As for the Tbb, he has a special ability called GET THE FUCK OUT THE WAY. Even if he does get caught, I can't imagine that he wouldn't be able to reduce the damage. Remember, the only time Soifon's bankai harmed him was when he was compressed in a small box, and shot at from point blank range, yet still reduced the damage, and still fought normally with only a crack in his skull.
If his Respira touches 10 tails it wi ill eat away at his body. Only way to stop it is to cut off the parts.
6: Hallibel: I can easily imagine her as Kisames opponent, but he would get GODSTOMPED by her. She's physically faster and stronger. I don't see any of his attacks landing on her. If he fuses with his sword then she'll just use her release. He creates a water dome, she either evaporates it or boil it. And remember she flies, meaning she can easily escape his reach IF she needs to. Kisame's good, but he's hardly a factor for anyone above Espada 8. And Espada 9 is debatably a good match due to his water zanpakuto's abilities stolen from Kaien Shiba. She also has the standard cero and sonido...
7: Ulquiorra: Pain/Nagato isn't on ulquiorra's level when it comes to destruction. He did level konoha, but kanoha isn't even a city sized place. Once more, once he uses a technique on that level, he needs a MASSIVE recharge. Ulquirorra on the other hand, is immensely faster than pain. Not to mention he can use his abilities more than once. Do you not remember that the explosion from his power surpassed the height of las Noches. Which is several times taller than a full sized Yammy, ON THE INSIDE. On the outide, the giant pillars are even taller and the height of the explosion was higher than it. It even caused immense damage to the building from that distance. So yes, I stand by what I said. His destruction is rivaled only by, 10 tails whose most impressive destruction feat was a tailed beast bomb spanning several mountains(not downplaying, just stating here) His power is most certainly more impressive that even the nine tailed beast bomb, (the explosion that Minato averted) I'm not saying his destruction capabilities are greater than the Juubi, but they aren't to be taken lightly by anyone on that team including the Juubi.
Oh, I do acknowledge that I could be proven wrong about things pertaining to the Juubi, because many of his abilities are yet to be revealed.
8: 5th espada: Agreed: A fight between him and Hidan would be nice (hack and slash)
9: 6th espada: Same as 8...
10: No, it wasn't a joke, his abilities were made Crystal clear. Observe...
^^ Only tagged you so you could see it since you agree with him... This isn't meant to provoke an argument GIRUGAMESH.
Sorry it took so long to do this. I take all advance classes in school so doing this through the week is often impractical, not to mention I have some new video games that have been demanding my attention, LOL. But I'm here now, so...
Juubi can create an infinite tsukuyomi? I don't think so. I think they said something more to the nature that his chakra can be used to make a tsukuyomi powerful enough to control the entire planet, which is not far fetched due to its massive chakra reserves, but once again, the Juuubi hasn't demonstrated any abilities pertaining to genjutsu. At least to my knowledge, so the Juubi forming illusions is out of the question entirely.
As for Itachi with Shishui's eye. Well that "would" be a problem except for one thing. He can only use it once every nigh decade. Danzo was able to put it through continuos use, ONLY because he had the cells of Hashirama, and even then, it required an impractical waiting time. Now what is I.T, I don't know what it stands for.
As for Barragon, you do realize that he was indeed able to counter her bankai with ease right. The first time, he aged her bankai and had absolutely 0 damage. I think you're referring to the second time she used her bankai, in which case he was essentially placed inside a small box and fired at from point blank range. And even then, the only injuries he got was a crack in his skull that made utterly no difference in his ability to fight whatsoever.
As for Gins use of bankai, theres a problem. Swords can pierce full-fledged tailed beast. Remember when Sasuke sliced one of the 8 tails tentacles? For some reason, full tailed beast seem to have the consistency of living flesh. All Gin needs is a scratch, and poison will do the rest. Also, Naruto may have had an insane healing factor, but so did Aizen, LOL. The only reason he survived was because the hogyoku literally wouldn't let him die. So if it pierces, it works.
1. Aizen still solo's, his complete hypnosis is beyond any Genjutsu so far in Naruto. IF YOU LOOK AT IT, he can control your five senses, PERMANENTLY. If anyone he's fighting even so much as look at his blade, including 10 Tails, its complete hypnosis. This enables him to do his #1 and most effective ability. Trolling. More on Aizen is at the bottom. BTW, Madara isn't a real problem. If it was ONLY him and his cronies, he'd be obliterated. However, if you want to pursue the subject of Madara's strength then you can, but until then i'll treat him as insignificant at best. After all, Barragon could handle him, as well as any of the top 7 espada.
First off, i've already refuted this, "reiatsu nullifies attacks" thing. Look at my previous comments on the matter.
Aizen was confirmed to be twice as powerful as a normal captain( when he awakened the hogyoku)
1. Doesn't matter, the claim was his reiatsu alone could do it (already proven false, as the statement was made in an illusion in disproved by yamamoto)
2. Doesn't make a difference to the point
3. Doesn't matter, as the difference in power doesn't matter
No, Itachi's Genjutsu is nothing compared to complete hypnosis. He controls ALL senses permanently from just looking at his shikai ONCE. Also, bleach characters can easily dodge anything from Madara's army... their combat speed is several hundred times faster than sound...
Yes, he can. There was no power limit made in the show. It makes things quite clear, it looks at you parts, it controls shit. He was able to control byackuya's leg and arm, yet byakuya was far more powerful than Zommari.
Meh, agreed for the most part...
No, I'm not underestimating his power at all. In fact his power allows him to solo. Do you realize how much of a troll Aizen is. He would trick the Juubi into destroying his own army(madara's) by making him think they were arrancer.
The tailed beast may be chakra creatures, but they have a physical structure similar to animals. Gins Bankai, or Barragons Respira would destroy it as it has no counters, unless someone can quickly chop the parts off. And with Gins Bankai, this is nigh impossible because the poison spreads so fast.
Zommari can use one of his eyes and "look" at juubi's head and he's in control. This is why I say bleach stomps... They other characters, yes even Madara aren't even a factor... this is all Juubi.