Deoxys in the manga also has illusions, invisibility, regeneration, and whooped that egdemaster Mewtwo's ass so I'll go with him.
Sentry's tossing them into the sun
Sentry's tossing them into the sun
listen I'm just showing feats of her to make her not appear to be a glass canon and to debunk claims that mountain turtle is country level+ with a single attack, but if you made this battle you should have at least made this with a mind set in that you were unsure who would win this fight.
hell the only attack she has shown that could work on this guy is the ash stick that could work on this ( minus the continent level mind f*ck) maybe she can create a moon size chibaku Tensei to seal this thing. I honestly have no idea , but this won't be an easy fight for either of them IMO.
You have a point. OP did make this thread and immediately started to downplay Kaguya to the point where she was unfit to fight this turtle
Is that all dispel bound do is let him stalemate everyone?
Deliora in the actual manga is featless. Animators always add extra because its a show and they don't want to bore the viewers with the lack of action.
You forget that Gajeel has intangibilty now since he absorbed the shadow dragon slaying magic
All of Zeref's demons have been getting stomped left and right including Deliora recently so I'm not inpressed with his hype either
You also forget that ice shell requires charge time and Gajeel is faster than Gray and Lyon
I honestly don't even remember what we were arguing about. If it's about the speed feats of Kakuzu and Kakashi then I said all there is to say about their speed. You can take it or leave it but I'm not getting into a calculations debate over that.
As for the Avatar verse speed. Let's just agree to disagree. This is becoming too time consuming and going no where.
Are you serious? lol
Yea I'm dead serious
If something makes a VISIBLE sonic wave then yes they are moving at least Supersonic.
You're assuming that it was a sonic wave. The speed that Ozai was at when he hopped on to the next rock was actually very slow and calm. I'm just going to leave the video for other people to see and any unbiased person would tell you that this speed was not supersonic. It wasn't even superhuman.
If that's what you call supersonic then I'm supersonic too.
If it was real lightning, I would have said it was at least Mach 50, but it's just been calc'd to mach 12. Are you even looking at the fight? The animation of the characters slows down, yet the lightning always continues with it's true speed. Hell look at Zuko being hit with lightning. He's in the fucking air, and barely moving. Yet the lightning is moving everywhere.
I've yet to see an Avatar character actually react to real lightning instead of acting as a lightning rod so I can't agree with your mach 50 calculations. Where are you getting mach 12 from if you don't even know how fast this unnatural lightning is? This lightning as yet to tag any confirmed speedsters or out speed anything so how could you possibly calculate the speed for it?
Yet the lightning is moving everywhere.
If by everywhere you mean no where then yea. I didn't see any lightning being "everywhere."
In that same video you just posted had Katara dodging Azula's lightning multiple times and she isn't even as physically fast as Zuko, Aang, and Azula. I guess Katara is now hypersonic+ all of a sudden despite the fact that she's been defeated by mich slower attacks?
2:56 to 3:15 See how long a One or two second sense takes. Saying that it's the same as it's bender is a baseless statement. It's still hypersonic (with or without calcs).
And speaking of baseless assumptions. Why exactly does that make it hypersonic? Because you say so? Katara was dodging that same lightning and this girl can't even dodge Ty Lee or some fodder men from the fire tribe when they captured her and threw her in jail. Everyone's speed in this show is so inconsistent.
If it looks like a shock wave, then it must be a shock wave. Simple as that. There's no reason why it shouldn't be one. Because of style? That's your argument?
At least try to find a scientific reason why the fire or air did that. Because Earth and Water never just did that.
Except it didn't look like a shockwave. If you really believe it was then find me a video of an interviewer confirming it or something otherwise we will get no where on this subject.
Actually you're wrong. The earth and air bending during their fight was making the same effect. Rewatch the video and just look for moments when Aang used earth bending and air bending.
You do know it takes movement and reaction speed to do what he did? It's not like it just jump onto his hands without him noticing it. He noticed it before it even came close to the boat. His reaction speed was calc'd 266 milliseconds.
No it doesn't. That's like saying Benjamin Franklin had superhuman reaction because he caught a lightning bolt with his key and kite. The lightning bolt that Iroh caught came from off screen so we don't know whether or not he was actually able to see the lightning bolt before it hit the ground and he most likely attracted it from the sky like a lightning rod since benders are able to manipulate elements.
Zuko does that above. Have a field day power scaling.. Oh yeah. I'd like to see Kakazu actually eat pizza, while hopping on one leg, while bullet timing.
I gave you. Feats. Not any character vs character battles. I have you dodging objects and blast that have in your face speed.
You seem to have misunderstood. I wasn't doubting Aang could out run a lightning I was asking for you to provide proof since you said he's done it before. I asked for Aang doing it not Zuko. You're starting to abuse poweracaling.
And that translated speed feat to you? Madara wasn't looking at these beast. He couldn't move his feat. Hell the man got his while he was looking at the ground. Nothing impressive happened.
Madara could still activate Susanoo without moving like he did in that very chapter and Madara can sense chakra and all bijuus carries a massive amount of chakra. The bijuus were all putting pressure on him preventing him from activating Susanoo until they all ceased attacking then he casually activated it. You should take notes on the chapters I give you before coming to conclusions. You also don't seem to understand how overpowered Madara is.
True, but it's normal for people to not only provide the feats yet still provide some form of a speed it's self. If it's not clear, like bullet timing or lightning timing. Then you might want to pull out a calc for any one to truly care. I know the current speeds of Naruto characters. However, I lack the knowledge of the weaker early versions. Which I'm assuming you would know a huge amount of speed feats for them.
Oh it's clear to people who's been following Naruto since the beginning. If you want to go into a serious speed debate against the Narutoverse then it's going to get ugly and make the Avatar verse seem a lot slower because part 1 Sasuke and Naruto fresh out of the academy were hypersonic yet still slower than Kakashi at the time and pt 2 Kakashi was nearly killed by Kakuzu twice after getting caught twice.
The speed feats you've provided with out calcs means nothing. Because they are baseless by them selfs. I personally don't like calcs but some verses need them. Naruto is one of those verses that if it didn't get calc'd they would be sitting in the supersonic - low hypersonic range. Simply because of Lee vs Garra's fight.
I'm bored now. You're pointlessly pushing (In your face) feats, then want people to take your scans for amazing stuff. With little to no reference on these attacks.
Topic ended. Lets just focus on this battle. Speed was equaled for this very reason.
Sorry but I don't spoon feed fan calculations nor do I rely on them because they're all controversial. That's not my style.
I was bored since the beginning but you wanted feats and I gave you feats then you wanted calculations and I'm telling you I don't do calculations. If you want to end this pointless calcs debate then it's fine by me because I don't like it either.
Not only is it all the bending that he learned before, but al of their energy focused into him. So he has the ability to bend the largest and more powerful attacks than anyone. He's the strongest bender in the world when he's in that state.
You're implying that all the other past avatars were powerful which they all weren't which is why some died in stupid ways or never got to reach their full potential which is why Aang can't metal, lava, blood bend, etc.
Yea. And they should have shown the charges building up within the clouds and maybe some shots from space. Why do we need to see the damn sky? It clearly didn't pop out from the ground. Also he clearly stopped it from hitting the METAL ship. If it was any closer it would have hit the ship. Yeah. Lightning doesn't need direct contact to fuck shit up. Indirect would have done enough damage to the crew. He SAW the lightning bolt, stuck out his hands and started to REDIRECT it. Which required him to not only SEE the bolt. He needed to MOVE, and then react at the speed needed to get a hold over it. So YES It's reacting. All your downplaying isn't doing anything to this.
I already addressed this above but I'll say it again. Iroh could have started his movements right before he saw the lightning bolt leave the sky because it came from off screen and we the viewers couldn't see what he saw. Yea it didn't hit the metal ship because it was redirected into the water but that still doesn't dismiss the possibility that he acted as a lightning rod and his chi is what guided it into the water and the reason it didn't hurt anyone because it acts as a guide. How do you know he saw the lightning? They didn't show us what he saw. He could have most likely started his movements when he saw the clouds light up. How do you know Iron had to see the bolt? The bolt went directly to his hand as if it was a lightning rod.
If Iroh has the reactions to react to natural lightning, so should Aang in the avatar state, who is superior to him in every way as a bender who can redirect lightning.
Just because Aang can use all elements at once doesn't automatically make his reaction superior to someone who has better reaction. Going by your logic Aang should be able to metal bend and blood bend in Avatar State. Aang hasn't even surpassed his teachers in bending he just simply learned how to use their bending so to assume Aang can pull off a feat that someone who's superior to him in a certain area is a bold assumption. Avatar state just simply let's him use all the bending he's learned at once from what we saw.
I'm still wondering why we're debating speed in here when speed is equalized.
Because you claimed that Aang in Avatar State is faster than Kakuzu and couldn't even proof it.
Also, in Naruto, those "lightning blasts" are a form of manipulated chi, not natural lightning. In the videos provided above you clearly see Iroh redirecting nat
Yea and the "lightning blasts" that's projected from firebenders is literally the same exact thing so those aren't real lightning bolts either and no Iroh didn't react to lightning. He just simply used his hands as a lightning rod. If the animators wanted the viewers to know he's fast enough to react to lightning then they would have shown the lightning coming from the sky then Iron reacting to it right before it hit the ground but it came from off screen so it could most likely mean that once he started his hand movement the lightning came from the sky and was directly attracted to him like a lightning rod since he was manipulating chi.
There were a bunch of moments where Iroh gets tagged by slower things like when Azula torched him in that abandoned village or when Toph hit him with her earth bending when he was hiding behind a rock. He should have easily been able to react to Azula's fire of he really could react to real lightning.
Combat speed? There's no such thing.
What do you define as combat speed
Also the only thing you truly need to fight on par with someone is the ability to See, React, and Move at said speeds.
So the entire idea of combat speed is stupid and makes no sense.
Congratulations buddy you just defined combat speed. There's a difference between how fast a character can run, fly, etc and how fast they can fight which includes what you just listed. Let's say there's a character who can run at hypersonic speed but can't see his opponents clear when running at that speed and that he has to stop to attack so he doesn't miss or run into a wall. Let's also say he doesn't have the reaction see and react to an attack that's hypersonic so he would be hit before he even began to run. This character wouldn't be effective in a fight with another hypersonic character who could fight at this speed and outgun him.
This is based off Azula's lightning, which at this speed. Zuko also reacted to this and redirected this attack while in mid air. Powerscaled to top-tier TLA characters.
Ozai Visibly breaking the sound barrier. (At least super sonic, bet if you calc'd you'll probably get higher)
You're talking about 2:37-2:42
That was nowhere near supersonic speed. Ozai was just lazily hopping to the rock right next to him at the most casual humanlike speed. That didn't even look like he was breaking the sound barrier.
Which he shoots a mach 12+ lightning blast at Aang. Aang is dodging these lightning strikes and then rolls over to react to them, which he could have shot Ozai, but shoots it into the sky.
The lightning that Ozai, Azula, and Zuko project isn't real lightning so how are you getting these calculations? The lightning even looks like it's moving at the same exact speed as their firebending. The animators doesn't even try to imply that it's faster.
Some of the fire blast shoot at him during the final battle, where at least super sonic. Broke sound barrier
No they didn't. The animatiors used the same effect for his fire when he was landing on a rock at normal level speed at 2:37-2:42 in the video above.
No one ever said Aang reacted to real lightning but, Iron has.
I don't see Iron reacting to lightning. What I see is him using his body as a lightning rod.
But he has out ran lightning bolts in his own verse. As for dodging, Aang has blitzed Zuko before, which Zuko has caught the hypersonic lightning in the air.
I'd like to see Aang outrunning the lightning blast if you have it. I remember the episode where Zuko was trying to learn how to redirect lightning and he was getting pissed and I also remember specifically that he used his hand like a lightning rod the same way Iron did.
Mind telling me which chapter they did this to Madara? Because I just remember him owning them.
It happened in the chapter that's specifically named Madara vs Bijuu which is chapter 658. Gaara restricted his body with sand but he could still cast Susanoo but the Tailed Beasts were all pressuring him and he used it once they finally stopped attacking him. Keep on mind that he was in a mortal body and at the time so he didn't have the luxury of holding back against all the Tailed Beasts.
No you didn't. You just keep showing me. Character A is reacting or keeping up with character B. Which you needed to answer with character B is this fast ( insert mach or something impressive)
Kakashi's lightning blast feat, isn't real lightning. So It would have been nice to see you post a calc or something for it's speed. This way I can say wow, Kakashi can keep up with that level of speed, and Kakazu fought him. I guess that means he's just as fast.
You asked me for speed feats and I gave you speed feats for both Kakashi and Kakuzu. If you specifically wanted calculations then you should have said so. I personally wouldn't rely on fan calcs for every debate but if you want specific calcs for Kakashi and Kakuzu then you're going to have to ask someone who's an expert on fan calculations but the speed feats that I provided you with would suffice.
I've never heard of that saying, but I'm going to assume you mean it's nothing to sniff at. Which you would be wrong
It's a pretty well known saying but here:
If you believe I'm wrong then surely it wouldn't be difficult to post Aang's combat speed feats. By combat speed feats I mean good combat speed feats if you think he can hang with Naruto's speedsters in combat.
He has reacted to supersonic and hypersonic attacks. He can handle him self quite well here.
I'd like to see these supersonic and hypersonic attacks for myself if you don't mind. I've watched all seasons of Avatar but I never took notes.
Yeah, hopefully you don't mean an actual lightning bolt. If so please show scans of him doing so.
I was being honest when I said lightning blast because it wasn't a real lightning bolt but to be fair, Aang has never reacted to a real lightning bolt either and he's never outrun a lightning blast in his verse like Kakashi did which isn't just a reaction feat but a raw speed feat overall which Aang or any of his enemies have ever done.
wow. That kind of contradicts the entire point of bringing up Kakazu tagging him. But maybe it's just a sneak attack oh well.
I'm just telling you exactly what happened in the manga. Kakuzu was being binded by shadow possession and Kakashi was able to go in for the kill before Kakuzu sensed his presence which is a very basic ninja tactic.
Yeah I love all of this above. But that wasn't the Kakashi that fought Kakazu
The Deidara feat happened during the Gaara arc that happened before the Kakuzu and Hidan arc. Kakashi wasn't amped when he reacted to Susanoo's arrow and he was exhausted from using kamui just like when he reacted to Deidara's explosion so his stats were still the same. He didn't improve stat wise until the war arc came.
You're still lacking on speed feats for Kakazu. Saying he tags Kakashi, which would be impressive if you showed some speed feats for Kakashi.
The Kakuzu and Hidan arc was short but for what Kakuzu did in it easily put him on Kakashi's (not current Kakashi) level of speed. When Kakuzu was introduced he and Hidan were to capture Yugito Nii but she led them into a trap and turned into the Two Tailed beast and when she tried to blitz Kakuzu he was fast enough to block her attack even though she hilariously overpowered him into the ground he was still fast enough to react and block her attack. The Two Tailed Beast along with all the other Tailed Beasts were casually playing ping pong with Madara and we really don't need to go into Madara's speed and reaction feats do we?
As for you're example I get what you're saying but the difference here is that I actually did give you Kakuzu and Kakashi's speed feats.
The Squirrel Girl thing was obviously a joke but I forgot you basically worship the Umineko verse so I shouldn't have bothered.
You never shown proof that Bernkastel was omniversal and destroying some gameboard that gets passed around by everyone is not an omniversal feat. My little cousin with a box of matches could destroy that gameboard but that wouldn't make her omniversal.
I also like how you reject toon force in Squirrel Girl's favor but you're always trying to form a pitiful argument based around the fact that Bernkastel mentioned some other shows that she isn't canonically apart of or can legally visit without her writer getting sued.
Even godlike beings can be emotionally attached to lesser beings.
Bern isn't omniversal and Squirrel Girl can't lose. Ever.