ReiKai (Level 10)

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Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly vs The 4 Heavenly Kings

@supernova7005: Actually it says "The Southern Galaxy Has been attacked" as in past tense, it just happened, and the Narrator is referencing the event, to which King Kai immediately reacts to said event. Regardless of the wording, we see first hand what happened. All that remained of the Soutern Galaxy is little more than Crumbs. Every planet Goku visited was a dead world. There was nothing left save what Paragus had preserved for his own reasons.
 
Those videos have been debunked time and again for their faulty reasoning and terrible logic. It's just haters hating.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly vs The 4 Heavenly Kings

@supernova7005: Well if you include the continued game story, Brolly survives being blasted through the sun, heals himself and comes back with a massive zenkai and becomes LSSJ3. Other such stories and "What if" scenarios had him properly killing everyone and going on to destroy the universe.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Echelon9: What I ignore are Character Statements with no visual evidence to back them. And your personal interpretation of speed is biased, baseless and irrelevant.
 
Ginyu Saga, Burter moved so fast time seemed to slow down for people who were already hypersonic. Goku at the same time moved so fast Burter was completely blitzed by him. Later, Freeza in his final form shot a finger beam so fast that nobody could react as it killed Dende, and Piccolo remarked that all he saw was a brief flash. Some could interpret that as it being a lightspeed attack. I don't, but generally only because I have my own measurements based on earlier evidence. Though it could still have very well been given Piccolo's much earlier efforts against the Moon.
 
I have evidence and calculations based on that evidence. Which I could estimate as being far greater given the nature of the DBU as explained by Akira Toriyama. I'm not because there's simply no need to overly complicate a series that was never meant to be complicated. The simple fact remains that Brolly devastated an entire galaxy in a restricted form, and Sailor Saturn doesn't even have a legitimate star-busting feat, only a Claim of possessing the Capability to do so. Visual Evidence trumps character statements. And unless there's an official guide book to correct this, then as far as it can be shown, Saturn isn't a star-buster.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Echelon9: I'm still not seeing evidence of any of this at all. You can make all the claims you want, but I'm not seeing any evidence provided that might even remotely prove it. All I see are assumptions.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly vs The 4 Heavenly Kings

@taichokage: You should see the DBM Minicomic -> Poor Raditz
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Echelon9: Yeah we're still not getting any actual figures of time or distance traveled. And saying "Galixia kills as quickly as possible" doesn't mean in seconds. It's dependent on the opponent and it could take Galaxia minutes or even hours depending on the opponent so the term is subjective. We're also not looking for Galaxia's speed, we're looking for Saturn's.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Echelon9: No, if her trajectory was straight that means there wasn't anything in her path that would impede her, or she just projected a field to push any debris out of her path. And you know you shouldn't just say "It's MFTL!" You should actually do some Math. And you should state, explicitly, how much time elapsed and not say "It took seconds!" How many?
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Asura vs Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann

@321zigzag1: When Asura finally punches Chak, he's only about the size of the dot in the middle of Chak's forehead. Chak is around multi-system or larger in size, relatively. And that's really nothing more than a shell.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Asura vs Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann

@UltimateHero0406: Uh, no. Asura could not obtain Destructor form without first being given the Mantra Reactor. Wyzen refers to Asura as the Destructor, but Asura does not gain nor display that form until After he gets the Mantra Reactor. We see this first hand as Asura opens his chest platings to absorb the energy from Chak's blast directly into the Mantra Reactor embedded in his chest.
  
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly vs The 4 Heavenly Kings

@Saiyan007: DBZ Kai is more Canon than the original anime because the Filler was removed and dialogue changed to fit closer to the Original Manga, as was intended.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly vs The 4 Heavenly Kings

@Saiyan007 said:

@taichokage: you can use the anime filler as canon for non canon things aswell as the movie's because *gasp* there all non canon but vegeta's final flash was mftl and destroyed a star and broly was stronger than him so these guys wont be touching broly at all.

No you can't use filler. And I never do.
 
@taichokage said:
You can't use one Non canon reference for a different one because they are non canon and are not tied to other material. Only if it was within the same arc or or continuum. Broly never moved FTL. That being said though he can still beat the Kings.

Given my own calcs, Goku and co are FTL in the Cell Saga and Brolly was effortlessly dodging, evading and blocking every blow Goku and Piccolo could unleash on him. Everything else he just tanked because he could. Plus the attack he used to blow up a planet was clearly FTL as well.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Echelon9: Have you been on a farm lately? Cause I haven't seen so much Bullshit spew from one place in a long while.
 
Seriously, a Feat displayed right at the beginning of the movie is not PIS. Throwing down a poorly done phone-scan of a manga page of  Character Making a Claim of power fits along the lines of Hyperbole. So until you can actually Show and Prove that Saturn can blow up a star, that statement is completely Meaningless.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Echelon9: The Daizenshuu are passed through and noted by Akira Toriyama and made with both his scrutiny and Approval. That means they're canon and they are the Most Canon Source outside the Source Material itself, the Original Manga. Brolly doesn't exist in the Manga universe so you can't claim the Daizenshuu has nothing to do with him when Vol6 was made Explicitly to encompass the DBZ movies. So, no matter how much you whine about it, it doesn't change the fact that the Daizenshuu made specific explanations concerning the movies, and they told us Goku and Gohan were SS2. That makes their word infinitely more legit than your ramblings.
 
And you want estimates on speed? In truth Toriyama had stated that the 1mil/km mark on Snake Way was just a random number because he couldn't really think of the astronomical unit involved and because he wanted to keep the series Simple to Understand. But what we actually see when comparing the position of the Check-In station and Snake Way with King Kai's planet when overlapping the actual Physical Universe itself, shows an extreme distance crossing easily millions of lightyears.
Dragon Ball Universe
 
Now, even if we took the 1mil/km at face value, Goku still crossed it with a speed of mach 28 in Flight. As noted in earlier parts, their Reaction Speed is far greater than their Travel Speed. Which is indicated by Piccolo (and Roshi's) moon-busting attack which struck the Moon in just shy if 4sec. Given the shortest distance between the Surface of the Earth and the Moon is roughly 320thousand kilometers, that made it around 1/4th the speed of light. And this was before Nappa and Vegeta arrived on Earth.
 
But let's see for travel. Goku at 8000pl could Fly at Mach 28. Kaioken and SSJ forms provide direct multiplication to all physical stats from this point forward. Goku by Buu Saga had a base level of 60mil. That's 7500 times greater. So 7500 x 28 = Mach 210,000. Goku's Base Speed in Flight is now just shy of one-quarter lightspeed, making his Reaction Time far greater. Then we multiply this by the Super Saiyan 2 increase, which is 100fold. 210k becomes 21mil, making Goku's SS2  Travel speed just under 24x Lightspeed. Gohan's at SS2 is not much different and Brolly still smacked him around like nobodies business.
 
And to just drive home the point of Power differences.
  
  in English Dub and Japanese Dub, the result is still the same, and performed by Brolly, who was under the Control Circlet, which Diminishes his power and Restrains him from using his maximum strength at all times, preventing him from going beyond a Psuedo-SSJ form. Meaning Brolly wasn't even in his Legendary status when he all but annihilated the Southern Galaxy.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Echelon9: The Daizenshuu are Official. That means they are Canon and can't be disputed. If it states the animators made an error and states that the cast were, in fact, Super Saiyan 2. Then that's what it means. They were SS2 and there's no arguing it. Which means Brolly was smacking a SS2 around with ease and overpowering two of them plus a SSJ. And my own estimations of their speed places them in the FTL range, so Saturn isn't blitzing.
 
Cell is stated as System level in the Daizenshuu as well. Goku and Gohan are equal to or greater than SPC. So we had two System-busting powers plus maybe a Star-buster in Goten, who were being overpowered by Brolly. Which was easy enough to see since Brolly had already demonstrated Galaxy-level force in a Restricted form.
 
So, the best Saturn can hope for, is for Brolly to kill her and fast. Because he's going to violate her. Hard.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Asura vs Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann

@UltimateHero0406: Given the visual effect of the beams themselves they went from the Ground to far outer orbit nigh instantaneously. Even Light would take several seconds for this to happen. The only ones that could be argued differently were the charged blast orbs Asura shot into space which detonated and wiped out massive fleets of ships.
 
What the Mantra Reactor did was enable Asura's body to withstand his ever-increasing power. Before Yasha took it from the Brahmastra and installed it in Asura's chest, Asura's power was killing him because his body couldn't contain it. The Mantra Reactor changed this and gave him the aspects of the other Guardian Generals (the Seven Deities), along with his own. This allows him to continually increase his power without the strain and degradation on his body, thus removing all his previous limits and giving him control.
 
As Mantra Asura he demonstrated the same FTL speed and star-busting as he did in Destructor form, and Chak still competed with him, and in Creator mode, stomped him initially. Literally blocking Asura's strike with a single finger. Despite this and the loss of his Mantra state, Asura once again exceeded all limits, increasing his abilities beyond even Chak's Creator form.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Echelon9: As the Daizenshuu 6 explains, Goku and Gohan were, in fact, SS2 and it was merely an error on the animators part. So that's 2 SS2's and a SSJ, who were all Failing against Brolly, until once again a Plot-Device was introduced.
 
Brolly is easily more powerful. He strangles her to death.
Post by ReiKai (3,515 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Asura vs Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann

@UltimateHero0406: One thing you are forgetting is that the state of his appearance has little affect on Asura's actual power. It was more a visual representation. Mantra Asura is the same as Destructor Asura, only he's in his Regular size. His power, strength, and everything is still the same. And as indicated in the last fight with Chakravartin the Creator, where Chak was at his maximum ability, Asura still defeated him even when reduced to his most Basic appearance. Asura's power still increased immensely with his wrath, from being slapped around by Chak, to rivaling him, then to beating him.
 
Asura is at least hypersonic and in Berserker form he showed FTL beams. Destructor has him as an FTL'er as well.
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