ReiKai (Level 10)

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Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

@FalconC2: Force Crush requires Focus and, more importantly, to see the target. FC against a Sentient being has never been performed because they naturally resist influence over their bodies. Hence the most any Force user has ever done is a Force Choke. Which is completely ineffective against Alita. Alita has full control over her body, which is a living machine with Imaginos 2.1+ and she's impervious to mental effects and attacks.
 
In terms of speed, she was low hypersonic in her Tuned body. Imaginos 1.0 she was high hyper-sonic, and 2.0 she's over Mach50 and, under specific conditions, can even achieve superluminal speeds. Alita also has mind tricks of her own and can manipulate her opponents mind with Mental Emptiness, and she can project her Intent as illusions to create Astral Doppelgangers. Ultimately Alita is already so fast that she can separate Galen's head and limbs from his body before the Force can tell him how boned he is.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

Alita takes his face off. Then puts it on'er boot and proceeds to stomp his face into his balls.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Over The Limit!: AV Battle Community Vote Thread.

@takashichea: Ah I see. I thought it was because people were getting a bit uppity in a DBZ thread, as often seems to happen. Ah well, either way I was clearing up a mess I'm sure was brewing regardless.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Over The Limit!: AV Battle Community Vote Thread.

@takashichea: I do feel the locking of the "Brolly Planetary Gauntlet" was a little unnecessary, however I will not ask to undo it, only that I perhaps better explain what was actually going on.
 
Some people were misinterpreting Budokai 3's representation of Brolly as a "God of Destruction" as something literal and that he technically could not be the 1st because Birus is "millions of years old". What I feel people misunderstood is that what was written and embellished within the B3 game was released back in 2002. Battle of Gods did not air in Japan until early 2013. That's more than a 10yr gap and Toriyama did not begin writing or working on it until mid-late 2011.
 
By all accounts, in terms of Publication, Brolly is the "First" god of destruction of note within the DBZ franchise. Not a literal god, but more of a title given by fans and adopted by Viz/Bandai for use in their medium. And while the games Storylines are not canon to the Original Manga or Anime, the "What If" scenarios could potentially exist within the DBU as alternate universes thanks to both Mirai Trunks' time traveling and further evidenced within the Dragonball Online game written and worked on by Toriyama himself which goes further on with Time Travel Missions and even references Bardock being saved from Freeza's Deathball attack.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@DBZ_universe said:

@ReiKai: That's a good way to see the both difference of both. Birusu just wanted to fight SSJG and nothing else.

Also did you know Broly was the first God of Destruction? It shows in Budokai 3 on his skills and how he calls him self a God.

I did know and notice, however more than calling himself a god, you should remember that one of the Capsule boost items that you gain through Brolly's story arc is an item called "God of Destruction Body Wrap", referring to the garb that he wears.
 
@Dream said:

"Birisu not killing them was because he had never intended to from the very start."

Regardless, it was a refreshing ending to see Goku didn't beat him through some half-assed plot device as many of the DBZ movies are notorious for doing.


Indeed, though that can also be because Birus isn't really a villain, and because the BoG movie is more like a really long episode that will lead into the next movie Toriyama is doing and potentially spawn an entirely new series or a full set of movie features.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Dream: @DBZ_universe: We can't really compare Brolly and Birisu with what the other has or has not done, because they were both done by different teams. Brolly was written by a separate writing team from the Anime while Birisu and Battle of Gods were written directly by Toriyama himself. There's also a time gap in which the two would appear. There's about a 13-14yr difference between TLSSJ movie and BoG. Only about 5-6yrs between 2nd Coming and BoG.
 
Brolly was made with the sadistic intention to knock around the Z-fighters and refrain from killing them for his own enjoyment. Birisu was never intended as a villain, despite being the God of Destruction. Birisu dropped the Z-crew rather effortlessly and was never really trying to whole film. Even in the end fight, Birisu showed he was rather unfazed by all of Goku's attacks. Birisu was not intended as a bad guy here, instead he was more a tool to bring the DBU into a higher degree of fighting and to help train Goku to prepare for that.
 
And we all know that the Villains must be defeated by movies end. Brolly could've easily killed everyone, but he doesn't because PIS. Birisu not killing them was because he had never intended to from the very start.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Dream said:

@Kobra678: The Z Fighters could still at least move around when Broly pummeled them, indicating to me that the gap in power between them isn't that significant as some folks here think. In comparison, Bills completely incapacitated Goku, Gohan and Gotenks with only a few attacks while in their strongest forms. Don't mean to be an ass, but I find the Broly hype to be really overblown.

No, the gap was fairly significant. Brolly is just sadistic. He let them hit him and move around. He was playing with them. He wanted to torture and torment them, as evidenced by the way he acted and spoke. There was no need for him to evade or take them in any hurry. There was nothing they could do to him. Brolly was going to take the time to enjoy himself.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@DeathHero61: Say I ate a sandwich. There are no bites left, but there are crumbs of bread still on the plate. Does that mean I didn't eat the sandwich? No. It's gone. All that's left are useless specs that aren't worth anything. And that's the state of the South Galaxy. It's just crumbs.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » World Breaker Hulk, Mantra Reactor Asura Vs SSJG Goku, Bills

@flashback180: Incorrect. The Mantra Reactor allowed Asura to regular his ever-increasing power so it wouldn't destroy him as it was when he was in Berserker Mode.
  
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet


@Dream: No, movies based on long-running shounen titles are normally based off a specific point within the TV anime continuity, even if there are possible contradictions with the events due to the anime creators taking a few liberties here and there with elements to the series.

Which makes it an alternate universe since the events of these movies do not exist within the Main Canon. Examples;
 
World's Strongest: Goku's in Otherworld at this point in the series, not alive or on Earth.
Tree of Might: Tien, Yamcha, Chouzu and Piccolo all appear. They're dead at this point in the series.
Lord Slug: Same as above.
Cooler's Revenge: Goku is capable of turning SSJ almost instantly at this point in the series, but only does so at the very end of the film. We can chop that up to just poor decision making by the Writers.
Return of Cooler: Piccolo had merged with Kami at this point in the series, which should make him stronger than Goku and Vegeta, but he gets beat by a single Meta-Cooler with greater ease than both the Saiyans. Also Goku was still suffering from heart disease, yet he's just fine here.
Super Android 13: Same as above. Even assuming Goku's recovery, Piccolo would still be strongest person on the team, but gets beaten rather easily anyway.
Broly TLSSJ: Goku and Gohan were maintaining SSJ during everyday living during the series, but are in normal states here. Also they were relaxing and taking a break from training and any other activity, yet ChiChi and Goku are away trying to get Gohan into a private school with no mention of Cell whatsoever.
Bojack Unbound: The entire damn thing was a piece of crap. 
Broly 2nd Coming: Krillin showing up to help while Vegeta and Piccolo are mysteriously absent is absolute bull$hit.
Bio-Broly: Same as Bojack Unbound
Fusion Reborn: Most of the movie is crap. It had Hitler in it. Even assuming they were all back from the dead, they'd never come back With Tanks and weapons. Whole thing was terrible.
Wrath of the Dragon: Goku does what a Mystic Gohan cannot. Also, Kid Trunks receives the sword from Tapion, which is the same sword Future Trunks has, yet is never seen again and is never used by Kid Trunks in the entire series nor even displayed in Battle of Gods.
 
And let's not forget Dream 9, which is a literal collaborative crossover with Toriko and One Piece and clearly has no place or existence within the DBU.

Show me a Kamehameha fired from Earth to the sun outside of the movies before Battle of Gods (since their events don't affect the TV anime) and then I'll concede to this.

What you're asking for is irrelevant because we're using characters within the Movie Canon, not the Series Canon. And in the film we see that between the moment the Family Kamehameha leaves the Earth to the time it hits the Sun is 7sec. Which means it was traveling at a rate of 13,285,714.3mi/s. That's 71x Lightspeed.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Dream: Movies don't strictly follow the series canon and are typically counted as Alternate Universes. They can have similar timelines while being vastly different in terms of power. Which explains why GT is so much crap. It has a similar series of events as the Main Canon, but as we know it's vastly weaker in terms of power. And we see such differences with Mirai Trunks who has openly stated that the Androids in his future aren't nearly as strong as those that he met in the past.
 
Anyway, far as the speed goes, even looking as far back as the beginning of DBZ, Piccolo did knock off the moon in 4sec. That would make his beam 1/3rd lightspeed. It's not until Goku and Vegeta fight that we start seeing direct multipliers in ability. Now, even if we were just looking at Flight/Movement speed, Goku clears Snake way in about 28hrs which puts him right around Mach 28. So with a Battle Potential of 8000, Goku's speed was Mach 28. And I always figured that was a lowball because Goku was never an adept flier until he got to Namek. Prior to his first death against Raditz, Goku never flew. He could levitate, but never flew. Not until he was traveling back across Snake Way to fight to Saiyans. And I say lowball because Goku on the Nimbus was moving over Mach 50 when he went from Korrin's tower to the Battlefield in 10min.
 
So, moving on. I know people hate using PL, but it was functionally used and created by Toriyama as a measuring stick up to a point. And Kaioken displayed direct multipliers in ability which was reflected by the users PL. So, fastfoward to Namek. Goku ready to fight Freeza. His base level was 3mil, which is 375x higher than it was on Earth. So Mach 28 by 375 and you get a mach rating of 10,500. Still not lightspeed, but then x50 for SS1. And you have Mach 525,000. Lightspeed is mach 880,000. So by travel speed at his stage, Goku is just under 2/3rds lightspeed.
 
Push ahead again to Post-RoSaT training into the Cell Games. Goku's base by then is 30mil. Which by these figures puts him at about 1/8th lightspeed at Base. So as a SSJ during this point his Travel Speed is Mach 5.25mil, which is just about 6x lightspeed. Given these estimates and the fact that Brolly was outpacing the entire team rather effortlessly, Brolly being around 4x faster wouldn't be surprising, even given his size. Especially given he was dodging and blocking Piccolo and Goku at once, and that was Goku post-zenkai after recovering via Senzu bean. In fact, Gohan and Trunks would've also received zenkai as well from their beatings and were still totally outmatched in both speed and power. Brolly taking hits wasn't from an inability to dodge, it just wasn't necessary for him to.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Dream: And as evidenced Brolly is an FTL'er with FTL attacks so Diana isn't beyond him in the least.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@machmans: It was all at once for reasons already stated. Even then, looking at his attack later on, distinctly shows FTL with his attacks.
  
  
Given the size of these planets the relative distance between New Vegeta and those aliens homeworld is roughly the same distance between Mercury and Venus, which is over 30million miles. From the time it turned away from the slaves to the time it hit their home world, is a timeframe of about 6sec.. Which means that singular, basic attack was moving at a rate of 5million miles per second. Or just shy of 27x Lightspeed. So we know Brolly's attacks themselves are in the FTL category
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@DeathHero61: It wasn't debunked. Just every hater kept trying to flame it and failed massively, relying entirely upon someone elses youtube video as their proof which was itself so full of crap that pigs wouldn't go near it.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Who in anime/manga can defeat Mxy (DC) and Q (ST)?

@KingOfAsh: Again, didn't create a universe, just  a space where the two fought. Jedah Dohma did that in Darkstalkers. A number of mages in warcraft made pocket universes/dimensions. And Q had done the exact same thing, easily, and for fun as opposed to a necessary means of fighting. And to say the AS can psychically attack sentient races isn't saying much of anything. Pretty much any Telepath in fiction is capable of the exact same thing, only they're much better at it.
 
Thing is, none of that would really work against Q. Since he already knows what's going to happen and he can just snap his fingers and turn the entire crew into puppies there really isn't anything TTGL can do since it relies entirely upon the whole damned cast to do anything.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Evertonian4Life said:

@ReiKai:

"And Brolly, in a restricted form, was capable of destroying virtually all of it with a singular attack."

The galaxy could clearly be seen spinning.The galaxy to be visibly spinning like that means the timeframe is billions of years.

Since thats impossible we'll just have to go with low-end, Broly destroyed planets and stars with unknown amount of blasts.

No because that makes no sense and the Spinning can be attributed to the Camera turning because the Still Image of a galaxy doing nothing for 12sec is extremely boring and people got sick of that cheap method of padding their animation in the 80's. We get a clear sense of time in that between the beginning and the end of the galaxies destruction, there was a time elapse of 7sec. Given that King Kai reacted immediately to this event tells you it happened all at once and right at that moment.
 
We discount the idea that Brolly created x# of ki blasts because it would mean either;
A) He could target virtually every planet and star across vast cosmic distances at once and strike them with attacks that would be traveling at a rate of several-hundred trillion times the speed of light.
B) He would be traveling in a spiral pattern from the center of the South Galaxy moving outward and targeting each Star/Planet individually, in which case Brolly himself is moving at several-hundred trillion times faster than light.
 
Neither option would make any sense and would effectively make Brolly the fastest DBZ character to ever exist and even "Battle of Gods" figures like Whis and Birus would be ice blocks frozen in time next to him, and I've calc'd them at at least 844thousand time faster than light when traveling from the Galactic Center (the center of the Milky Way Galaxy) to Earth in 26min, which is the frame of time given to us by Whis himself.
 
The Logical and most appropriate scenario is that Brolly launched a singular attack at the center of the South Galaxy and the resulting detonation was so immense that the Shockwave created by it ripped across these cosmic distances at the aforementioned theoretical speed. The initial attack itself does not need to be at that level of speed, only that it created a sufficient level of force to generate a shockwave powerful enough to travel at those speeds.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Who in anime/manga can defeat Mxy (DC) and Q (ST)?

@Dream: I'm just saying people need to have something more than a "Derp I can blows ups da uni...da uni...everything!" cause it's rather tiring and boring. I myself never claimed Q was omnipotent, only that he was omnipresent. And that in much of the series, to kill a Q required a bunch of other Q's to come down and make it happen with the full support of the Continuum behind it. Which I do find odd since they've shown they can just remove a Q's powers anyway.  
 
I'm saying that TTGL really couldn't kill Q based on the "I can blow up a universe" argument because sheer force never seemed to matter to them. And like I said he could just snap a finger and turn all the pilots into figgie pudding. Series like Gurren Lagann just don't really have any depth to it. It was a fun, fast paced series and everyone was rightfully miffed when Kamina died since he was the only likable character and Simon was a whiny little emo until he was forced to butch up and grow a pair, to which I do applaud the series for that much in actually creating some character development instead pulling the old DC routine going "Oh Superman didn't really die, he was just in a 'healing coma.'"
 
And I do remember the episode in which he wanted to commit suicide. But he wanted to die as a Q with all his power and omniscience and everything, and not as a mortal creature and therefore susceptible to a mortal perception of death. And it was for that reason that the rest of the Continuum tried to stop him. Which again makes you think as to why they didn't just remove his powers, unless of course that required Q to willingly allow them to do so without having to fight him for it and losing and getting killed in the process. Honestly they didn't explain it all too well. I think they were all too focused on Q just being comedy relief.
Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Who in anime/manga can defeat Mxy (DC) and Q (ST)?

@Dream: Q did create a pocket reality for the purposes of putting humanity on trial and everything Consular Troy could sense and feel told her that everything there was Real and that the people were Alive. We've also seen that Q can bring people back to life, as he did with Picard when Picard died and Q let him relive events claiming it wouldn't change anything, but of course was lying to his face. There's also an interactive game/episode using live film where Q assisted a Starfleet officer to keep him from dying and the whole ship being taken over by the Borg by continually restarting time and events every time the Officer/Player made a mistake.
 
Q is effectively omnipresent. He can be anywhere at any time he wishes and the Continuum is virtually omniscient. They know the past, present and future as it is. Which is kinda why Q likes to mess around so much, to Change things and see what happens, which makes the rest of the Continuum nervous. Among other things he has done was move a Moon back into proper orbit around a planet with no effort at all as soon as he got his powers back. As much as Q liked to mess around, he always popped in to kinda nudge Picard, Riker, or someone else in the right direction to keep the human race from going extinct or to stop other forces from flushing their galaxy down the cosmic toilet.
 

@FalconC2
So, show me where does this actually happen and what translations exist to actually prove it outside of bunch of wiki pages and garbage from 4chan. I made the mistake of looking over the Demonbane VN stuff before in-spite of how terribly bad it is (it is very bad, and panders to the lowest common demographic) and literally the only thing of worth was the Shining Tetra-whatever.

 
So basically you're going to ignore everything shown and all translations and Insult everyone who enjoys the series because you dislike it? And this is where no one will listen to anything you have to say now.
 
Demonbane Godstomps everything.
 

This story is only a fairy tale.

    But even the god who dreams at the center of the World, the god who created all things in Existence, can never, ever destroy it.

    For it is a story of momentary love, forever carved into infinite time----

    It is the Song of Life.

    Let us considered a hypothetical.

    A universe inside a reactor.

    A universe inside a test tube.

    A universe inside a chewing gum wrapper.

    This is the story of a universe outside another universe.

    This is the story of a universe inside another universe.

    This is the story of an eternity contained in a single moment.

    This is the story of infinity contained in the tiniest speck of dust.

    This is the story of a universe outside another universe outside another universe outside another universe outside another universe outside another universe....... This is the story of endless, infinite universes.

    Everything is limitless and momentary.

    The infinite and finite will melt together, the circular snake will fall to pieces, and all things will return to the boiling Soup of Chaos.

    Everything is as foam on the waves.

    Creation is but a fleeting dream, dreamt by the blind idiot-god who is King-of-All as he dozes on the edge of waking.

    When he wakes, it will end.

    It will simply vanish, and there will be no one to know or remember.

    Or perhaps it will simply never have existed at all.

    So is the World really nothing more than a fantasy?

    This is a hypothetical, but----

    There are those who do not think so.

Post by ReiKai (3,511 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Who in anime/manga can defeat Mxy (DC) and Q (ST)?

@machmans: Again, no. None of that was by Janemba's likes or dislikes. It was warped because of his direct connection to the Check-in Station when he was created. He did not change Hell by will alone nor had any control over it beyond some TK to drop those jelly-bean like gems on Goku. Janemba was not warping the realm, he wasn't twisting anything beyond what it had become when he was 'born'. The negative energy released from those containers is what caused it and what created him.
 
Also the Sword Janemba formed didn't cut reality. It cut the ground. That fissure didn't connect to Earth or go anywhere. It just made a deep gouge in the ground. Freeza did that to Namek at 50% power. That sword wasn't cutting the reality of the atmosphere or anything else. That sword also degenerated because Janemba's own negative energy damages itself. I mean seriously, harsh language hurts it and hurts Janemba.
 
Far as the movies, like i said it does count with Funimation because they are cheap, cheap bastards. Toei won't even give us DBO in english without making people fight to translate it themselves. It was very disappointing.
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