ReiKai (Level 10)

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Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

@SpeedForceSpider: @taichokage: @hitsusatsu11: Don't worry citizens, I'll dice and cremate the hater arguments soon enough after I take a lil time to refresh myself over the events of the 1st TFU book, since that's all that's involved here. But I will still say a few things before I go off to read my books while butchering the Republic on SWTOR. Still a fun game and Imperial Agent Sniper and Sith Sorcerer are damned fun to play.
So then;
#1: General Kota is featless and doesn't exist prior to TFU.
#2: No one in TFU has ever fought a Magnaguard
#3A: No one in TFU has ever actually encountered the real Obi-Wan.
#3A: This extends to Vader who doesn't encounter Obi-Wan for another 3-4yrs and prior instances were as Anakin Skywalker when he wasn't 80% machine and as slow as an overstuffed goose.
#4: The abilities of other Jedi/Sith do not extend to Galen by virtue of drawing from the same power source. Each persons abilities develop in their own way.
And in the words of Uncle: "One More Thing!" 
Alita can regenerate and has an infinite power source.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Nightmare (Soul Calibur) vs Guts

Gutts is a great character and a magnificent bad@ss.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

I don't see too much reason to unlock this, but s'fine. Instead of beating down every minute detail of the 'arguments' thus far, I will just discredit a few things and continue on.
Statemen: "Magnaguard have lightspeed Reflexes"
Reaction: "No."

  All visual evidence shows that this is not true. A so-far featless Ahsoka was able to eliminate three of them on her own during her first appearance in the TCW animated feature film that leads up into the series. Which is all canon and Disney is keeping it that way and building off it into their "Star Wars: Rebels" series airing in October.
Statement: "Striking a TIE-Fighter in flight gives you subluminal reflexes."
Response: "No."
TIE-Fighters max speed in atmosphere is 1200kph or 745mph, under Mach 1. The only times Galen ever hit a TIE was inside the Death Star. The inside of the DS is a fully atmosphere controlled environment to allow everyone on board to experience near normal gravity and breathable air. The only other time was on Kamino, and in that instance the 2nd Galen was riding atop a Rebel Fighter when he did so. And even then, still in atmosphere.
Statement: "Force Precog allows total knowledge of surroundings."
Response: "Not really."
As has been the case before, Precognition follows intent while Sense can allow the user to "see through the Force" and essentially 'feel' and 'see' everything around them. However, both such abilities have been tricked on more than one occasion. One such being the death of Andur Sunrider who, while distracted when rushing to the aid of his droid companion, was stung with a gorm-worm from a pirate behind him and was unable to deal with the poison, dying moments later. Such tactics as Distraction, Misdirection and Surprise have been the death of many Jedi and Sith and was one of the main reasons Order 66 was so efficient, because the Clones had no intention of killing any Jedi at all until that specific order was given, and since they didn't know when it would be given, there was no need to plan for it or think about it.
There's more I could say, but I got some work to do for awhile.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Luffy vs Alita

@Jinbeifan1 said:

@SMXLR8: a guy called GM on narutoforums. He does most of the calcs for One Piece.

I don't put much stock in what they say, given they tried to claim Mace Windu has Mach 15thousand reaction speed. But that's a separate issue. Better for us to actually see the evidence and not go by what someone else on some other forum says.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Luffy vs Alita

@takashichea: Thanks though and I was doing that on the other. Thought I removed those images from there first as I planned to delete, edit and then put them back up later. Was making a post there, but never went through last night 'cause thread was locked before I knew it. Oh well. I didn't even notice the splash tags until they were pointed out. So I'll be sure to keep an eye out for them from now on. 
: I don't have any further thoughts until people start showin what Luffy can do these days.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita


No, not really it's something that can be done easily and at the drop of the hat. As take for example this instance.

That's Force Choke, not Force Crush. And again, requires Seeing the target. A live connection via Holo still makes a Visual Connection. It has nothing to do with range, only with what the Force user can See. Much of that is explained by HK-47 in how to kill them and how their abilities tend to function.

At approximately 1:38+ we see him do it with ease.

Yes and he was Looking at him the whole time he he was doing Force Choke. Which is, again, a completely Separate ability from Force Crush. Obi-Wan demonstrates Force Crush against two Battle Droids.

But even that's not impressive. Regular Clone Troopers can run up, tear their heads off and beat them down with bare hands if necessary.

What I just showed you several instances where force choke was done to sentient beings and that it actually worked. Are you messing with me or something. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Star Wars knows that force choke can be used on people.

Again, two different abilities. And Vader used it on people not expecting it and had no ability in the Force at all. It's still not the same as Force Crush, and even that's never been done against anything larger than a Human. Also, showing us what Vader can do isn't the same a showing what Galen Marek can do. While Alita doesn't use "The Force", she has electromagnetic powers and control, as well as the ability to generate and manipulate plasma. She can also sense ki.

What are these generalizations you are coming to coming from? Also, you should try telling that to all those storm troopers who got viciously murder by it. You do remember that even Galen Marek's clone could disintegrate hoards of them with it? Yeah, that is some resistance they got. I am pretty resistant to fire too just ignore the fact that it can horribly kill me.

Again you're completely mixing up abilities. Galen did not "disintegrate" Troopers with Force Crush. That's Force Wave, and that's something that he only ever did in the Trailers. Galen never disintegrated people with the Force in the novelizations or in cut scenes within the games themselves. I know cause I have both novels. Read them cover to cover and they remove a lot of the fluff from the games.

Do you have calculations to actually prove all of that or are just pulling random numbers out of nowhere? You are going to need heavy proof to prove that Alita is actually FTL and I do mean that with an emphasis on heavy because I don't what you are talking about you say that.

Unlike the majority of SW fans, I actually have evidence and proof and not pointless and horrible speculation.

Also, never said Alita was FTL. Superluminal is more like sublight and closer to lightspeed. And as I said, it required specific conditions to be met.

Toji had done something similar before in an earlier match, but again requires very specific conditions to perform.

The bold is what is important as they have an acceleration of 1250 m/s^2 meaning that both Obiwan and Qui Gon Jinn could reach high supersonic speeds if only given a whole second. That's how ridiculous their acceleration is.

I should point out that he is BS'ing out his ass. That's not acceleration. That's the editing team switching from Live to Green Screened CGI footage of them using Force Speed. It's just the transition from the Live Feed to the CGI. Also, his math is complete BS as well. To go a distance of 1meter in 0.04sec is a speed of 25m/s. You know how fast that is? 55.9mph. That's it. This is using an actual Calculator. This is why SW fans need to go back to school. They need to stop inventing numbers and learn how to do Math properly. And Star Wars writers need to do the same and learn actual Physics.

The latter worked against Caerula Sanguis whose power was not precognition it was a form of prediction of an opponent's moves kind of like what the Midnighter does. They assess all possible moves an opponent could make and counter the most likely action. Which is why Alita's split intent worked. Force precognition on the other is not about reading an opponents future moves by analyzing their behavior and intent. It's about literally sensing the future like with Spiderman's spider sense.

It only worked against Caerula all of once because the first time it was unexpected. Also, you're wrong about how Force Precog works. It is almost entirely about Intent. And it can be tricked rather easily, as explained in the HK-47 video. Peter's Spider-Sense is completely different, and even that can be tricked.

Which you have neglected to actually apply any context for as from my position it just looks faster than eye and some after-images unless you want to apply some calculation to it. It better make sense though.

As shown, Alita in a damaged Tuned body was hypersonic. In Imaginos1.0 against Caerula she's even faster.

And in Imaginos 2.0 she exceeds all limits. She literally performs brain surgery to counteract tens of thousands of waves rebounding within Zazie's skull at Mach5+speeds, and had to create a counter-wave for each and every one of them within nary an instant to save her.

At minimum she counters 20thousand invisible, microscopic particles in Zazie's head that move in excess of Mach5 (Hypersonic Speed) and does so within a second or two. Sechs only job is to keep the vibrations from this from destroying the bedframe. This really doesn't require more of an explanation. But I'll say a bit more anyway. The average adult skull is 8.2in long and 6.9in wide. A cranial capacity of about 990ccm's (Cubic Centimeters). It would take an object moving at 55mph 0.15sec to move a distance of 8.2in. An object moving at Mach 1 would take 0.0107sec. More than 10x faster. Mach 5, 0.00215sec.

The soliton waves were moving in excess of Mach 5. So in less than 1/500th of a second, each of them was bounding randomly around inside Zazie's head. And in faster than 1/10000th of a second, Alita was countering them. That's 20x Faster. That would actually place her reaction and striking speed at Mach 100. And that's at the very least.


Remove Scans that have Pirated Watermarks

Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

@FalconC2: Force Crush requires Focus and, more importantly, to see the target. FC against a Sentient being has never been performed because they naturally resist influence over their bodies. Hence the most any Force user has ever done is a Force Choke. Which is completely ineffective against Alita. Alita has full control over her body, which is a living machine with Imaginos 2.1+ and she's impervious to mental effects and attacks.
In terms of speed, she was low hypersonic in her Tuned body. Imaginos 1.0 she was high hyper-sonic, and 2.0 she's over Mach50 and, under specific conditions, can even achieve superluminal speeds. Alita also has mind tricks of her own and can manipulate her opponents mind with Mental Emptiness, and she can project her Intent as illusions to create Astral Doppelgangers. Ultimately Alita is already so fast that she can separate Galen's head and limbs from his body before the Force can tell him how boned he is.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

Alita takes his face off. Then puts it on'er boot and proceeds to stomp his face into his balls.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Over The Limit!: AV Battle Community Vote Thread.

@takashichea: Ah I see. I thought it was because people were getting a bit uppity in a DBZ thread, as often seems to happen. Ah well, either way I was clearing up a mess I'm sure was brewing regardless.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Over The Limit!: AV Battle Community Vote Thread.

@takashichea: I do feel the locking of the "Brolly Planetary Gauntlet" was a little unnecessary, however I will not ask to undo it, only that I perhaps better explain what was actually going on.
Some people were misinterpreting Budokai 3's representation of Brolly as a "God of Destruction" as something literal and that he technically could not be the 1st because Birus is "millions of years old". What I feel people misunderstood is that what was written and embellished within the B3 game was released back in 2002. Battle of Gods did not air in Japan until early 2013. That's more than a 10yr gap and Toriyama did not begin writing or working on it until mid-late 2011.
By all accounts, in terms of Publication, Brolly is the "First" god of destruction of note within the DBZ franchise. Not a literal god, but more of a title given by fans and adopted by Viz/Bandai for use in their medium. And while the games Storylines are not canon to the Original Manga or Anime, the "What If" scenarios could potentially exist within the DBU as alternate universes thanks to both Mirai Trunks' time traveling and further evidenced within the Dragonball Online game written and worked on by Toriyama himself which goes further on with Time Travel Missions and even references Bardock being saved from Freeza's Deathball attack.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@DBZ_universe said:

@ReiKai: That's a good way to see the both difference of both. Birusu just wanted to fight SSJG and nothing else.

Also did you know Broly was the first God of Destruction? It shows in Budokai 3 on his skills and how he calls him self a God.

I did know and notice, however more than calling himself a god, you should remember that one of the Capsule boost items that you gain through Brolly's story arc is an item called "God of Destruction Body Wrap", referring to the garb that he wears.
@Dream said:

"Birisu not killing them was because he had never intended to from the very start."

Regardless, it was a refreshing ending to see Goku didn't beat him through some half-assed plot device as many of the DBZ movies are notorious for doing.

Indeed, though that can also be because Birus isn't really a villain, and because the BoG movie is more like a really long episode that will lead into the next movie Toriyama is doing and potentially spawn an entirely new series or a full set of movie features.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Dream: @DBZ_universe: We can't really compare Brolly and Birisu with what the other has or has not done, because they were both done by different teams. Brolly was written by a separate writing team from the Anime while Birisu and Battle of Gods were written directly by Toriyama himself. There's also a time gap in which the two would appear. There's about a 13-14yr difference between TLSSJ movie and BoG. Only about 5-6yrs between 2nd Coming and BoG.
Brolly was made with the sadistic intention to knock around the Z-fighters and refrain from killing them for his own enjoyment. Birisu was never intended as a villain, despite being the God of Destruction. Birisu dropped the Z-crew rather effortlessly and was never really trying to whole film. Even in the end fight, Birisu showed he was rather unfazed by all of Goku's attacks. Birisu was not intended as a bad guy here, instead he was more a tool to bring the DBU into a higher degree of fighting and to help train Goku to prepare for that.
And we all know that the Villains must be defeated by movies end. Brolly could've easily killed everyone, but he doesn't because PIS. Birisu not killing them was because he had never intended to from the very start.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Dream said:

@Kobra678: The Z Fighters could still at least move around when Broly pummeled them, indicating to me that the gap in power between them isn't that significant as some folks here think. In comparison, Bills completely incapacitated Goku, Gohan and Gotenks with only a few attacks while in their strongest forms. Don't mean to be an ass, but I find the Broly hype to be really overblown.

No, the gap was fairly significant. Brolly is just sadistic. He let them hit him and move around. He was playing with them. He wanted to torture and torment them, as evidenced by the way he acted and spoke. There was no need for him to evade or take them in any hurry. There was nothing they could do to him. Brolly was going to take the time to enjoy himself.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@DeathHero61: Say I ate a sandwich. There are no bites left, but there are crumbs of bread still on the plate. Does that mean I didn't eat the sandwich? No. It's gone. All that's left are useless specs that aren't worth anything. And that's the state of the South Galaxy. It's just crumbs.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » World Breaker Hulk, Mantra Reactor Asura Vs SSJG Goku, Bills

@flashback180: Incorrect. The Mantra Reactor allowed Asura to regular his ever-increasing power so it wouldn't destroy him as it was when he was in Berserker Mode.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Dream: No, movies based on long-running shounen titles are normally based off a specific point within the TV anime continuity, even if there are possible contradictions with the events due to the anime creators taking a few liberties here and there with elements to the series.

Which makes it an alternate universe since the events of these movies do not exist within the Main Canon. Examples;
World's Strongest: Goku's in Otherworld at this point in the series, not alive or on Earth.
Tree of Might: Tien, Yamcha, Chouzu and Piccolo all appear. They're dead at this point in the series.
Lord Slug: Same as above.
Cooler's Revenge: Goku is capable of turning SSJ almost instantly at this point in the series, but only does so at the very end of the film. We can chop that up to just poor decision making by the Writers.
Return of Cooler: Piccolo had merged with Kami at this point in the series, which should make him stronger than Goku and Vegeta, but he gets beat by a single Meta-Cooler with greater ease than both the Saiyans. Also Goku was still suffering from heart disease, yet he's just fine here.
Super Android 13: Same as above. Even assuming Goku's recovery, Piccolo would still be strongest person on the team, but gets beaten rather easily anyway.
Broly TLSSJ: Goku and Gohan were maintaining SSJ during everyday living during the series, but are in normal states here. Also they were relaxing and taking a break from training and any other activity, yet ChiChi and Goku are away trying to get Gohan into a private school with no mention of Cell whatsoever.
Bojack Unbound: The entire damn thing was a piece of crap. 
Broly 2nd Coming: Krillin showing up to help while Vegeta and Piccolo are mysteriously absent is absolute bull$hit.
Bio-Broly: Same as Bojack Unbound
Fusion Reborn: Most of the movie is crap. It had Hitler in it. Even assuming they were all back from the dead, they'd never come back With Tanks and weapons. Whole thing was terrible.
Wrath of the Dragon: Goku does what a Mystic Gohan cannot. Also, Kid Trunks receives the sword from Tapion, which is the same sword Future Trunks has, yet is never seen again and is never used by Kid Trunks in the entire series nor even displayed in Battle of Gods.
And let's not forget Dream 9, which is a literal collaborative crossover with Toriko and One Piece and clearly has no place or existence within the DBU.

Show me a Kamehameha fired from Earth to the sun outside of the movies before Battle of Gods (since their events don't affect the TV anime) and then I'll concede to this.

What you're asking for is irrelevant because we're using characters within the Movie Canon, not the Series Canon. And in the film we see that between the moment the Family Kamehameha leaves the Earth to the time it hits the Sun is 7sec. Which means it was traveling at a rate of 13,285,714.3mi/s. That's 71x Lightspeed.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Dream: Movies don't strictly follow the series canon and are typically counted as Alternate Universes. They can have similar timelines while being vastly different in terms of power. Which explains why GT is so much crap. It has a similar series of events as the Main Canon, but as we know it's vastly weaker in terms of power. And we see such differences with Mirai Trunks who has openly stated that the Androids in his future aren't nearly as strong as those that he met in the past.
Anyway, far as the speed goes, even looking as far back as the beginning of DBZ, Piccolo did knock off the moon in 4sec. That would make his beam 1/3rd lightspeed. It's not until Goku and Vegeta fight that we start seeing direct multipliers in ability. Now, even if we were just looking at Flight/Movement speed, Goku clears Snake way in about 28hrs which puts him right around Mach 28. So with a Battle Potential of 8000, Goku's speed was Mach 28. And I always figured that was a lowball because Goku was never an adept flier until he got to Namek. Prior to his first death against Raditz, Goku never flew. He could levitate, but never flew. Not until he was traveling back across Snake Way to fight to Saiyans. And I say lowball because Goku on the Nimbus was moving over Mach 50 when he went from Korrin's tower to the Battlefield in 10min.
So, moving on. I know people hate using PL, but it was functionally used and created by Toriyama as a measuring stick up to a point. And Kaioken displayed direct multipliers in ability which was reflected by the users PL. So, fastfoward to Namek. Goku ready to fight Freeza. His base level was 3mil, which is 375x higher than it was on Earth. So Mach 28 by 375 and you get a mach rating of 10,500. Still not lightspeed, but then x50 for SS1. And you have Mach 525,000. Lightspeed is mach 880,000. So by travel speed at his stage, Goku is just under 2/3rds lightspeed.
Push ahead again to Post-RoSaT training into the Cell Games. Goku's base by then is 30mil. Which by these figures puts him at about 1/8th lightspeed at Base. So as a SSJ during this point his Travel Speed is Mach 5.25mil, which is just about 6x lightspeed. Given these estimates and the fact that Brolly was outpacing the entire team rather effortlessly, Brolly being around 4x faster wouldn't be surprising, even given his size. Especially given he was dodging and blocking Piccolo and Goku at once, and that was Goku post-zenkai after recovering via Senzu bean. In fact, Gohan and Trunks would've also received zenkai as well from their beatings and were still totally outmatched in both speed and power. Brolly taking hits wasn't from an inability to dodge, it just wasn't necessary for him to.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@Dream: And as evidenced Brolly is an FTL'er with FTL attacks so Diana isn't beyond him in the least.
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Broly runs a planetary+ gauntlet

@machmans: It was all at once for reasons already stated. Even then, looking at his attack later on, distinctly shows FTL with his attacks.
Given the size of these planets the relative distance between New Vegeta and those aliens homeworld is roughly the same distance between Mercury and Venus, which is over 30million miles. From the time it turned away from the slaves to the time it hit their home world, is a timeframe of about 6sec.. Which means that singular, basic attack was moving at a rate of 5million miles per second. Or just shy of 27x Lightspeed. So we know Brolly's attacks themselves are in the FTL category
Post by ReiKai (3,517 posts) See mini bio Level 10
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