OP never said this is Double MS Kakashi tho soo irrelevant
Nor did he specify which kakashi it would be..... thus different versions of the character can be used to debate on including the strongest version.
Gaoh is easier for the team to kill. And no one on Team Naruto has the durability to tank a barrage of Mounturtle's magma missiles. The Limbs are also more likely to get off their attacks faster. Kakashi can go intangible to avoid their attacks, but seeing at it takes more time for him to warp a beast limb, the other one could swoop in and kill him.
Normally, a Shunko-enhanced blitz would suffice. But with Double MS + Rikudou's chakra, Kakashi could Kamui her before she could move from her position, seeing as he's fast enough to tag prime Kaguya and turn intangible against her Ash-Killing Bone darts.
Didnt sasuke cut bee's bm mode tails?
What of it?
also naruto characters are extremely bad against physical attacks compared to chakra.
Yeah. Same goes for every other character across all other mediums of fiction. Physical attacks being more effective against energy-based attacks is something that exists in many battle mangas, and is called surface area mechanics. Though, it's all kinetic energy at the end of the day. Marco's physical attacks aren't going to make up for the explosive energy in a Bijuudama that was tanked point-blank.
Gai is non factor in fight since intangibility is on and kakashi is going to get his head punched in.
Gai basically pulls a luffy punches into aokji and gets frozen and taken out right there since he has no durability.
How is he a non-factor when the moment he makes contact with Aokiji, it's Aokiji who's getting damaged. Gai moves at sufficient speed that he can distort space and with enough heat/build-up kicking power that ice is going to get vaporized the moment he kicks it. Aokiji is taking in kinetic power that ice dispersion isn't coming back from. Gai can rest in peace after that.
Kakashi can kamui akainu easily from a distance.
Marco is faster and stronger than Bee. Ace has the firepower to beat Raikage. I think If they kill Raikage first, they will beat Bee in a 2 on 1 match-up. Plus their endurance & stamina are more impressive than the Brothers.
He's surely faster, but he's not escaping the AoE of a BIjuu's mountain-vaporizers. And no, he's not stronger than Hachibi Bee. With techniques like Hachimaki, Bee can generate more physical power output than Marco can with his kicks. Their stamina may be higher, but the brothers (though we only care about Bee) have high enough energy reserves to launch attacks and inflict damage that neither of them would gradually be unable to soak up.
Marco has insane regeneration.
I agree (for OP standards), but that won't kick in when his durability falls to a level where the final Bijuudama attack would kill him.
Even bloodlusted, Marco and Ace could put enough heat out to keep him too preoccupied to prep a bijuudama. If he can pull it off (certainly possible, with Raikage covering him), then they should have it.
How would they intercept him firing a Bijuudama when he along with Naruto have been shown to be able to pretty much able to charge it nigh-instantaneously and fire several of them off at the same time?
Marco is faster than Bee. He will kickoff Bee's head before he launch the beast bomb. Then Ace spam his Kyoukaen and it's over.
But not fast enough to intercept him firing a Bijuudama. Course I'm assuming Bee already starts out in BM and everyone else are already at their amped forms, but Bee has already shown to be able to transform extremely quickly so it does not matter. No, he's not kicking off anyone's head off. Bee's at a superior weight class than Marco and anyone he's fought. He's durable enough to tank his own Bijuudama at point-blank, so a kick from Marco really isn't going to budge his head that much, and it's only going to make it easier for Bee to tag Marco with a TBB. Ace's part here is pretty null aside from taking down the Raikage, seeing as Ace doesn't have Marco's durability and Bee can disperse him beyond reforming.
@phantomrant: Dont know where you got that, the moon's creation was confirmed to be as a result of Hamura and Hagoromo working together to seal up Kaguya. Confirmed when Kaguya even had a flashback of her sons sealing her up in the moon when Naruto and Sasuke were repeating the same thing
This was the first thing that was introduced in the manga in regards to Rikudou creating the moon. Although the story could have been fabricated by Black Zetsu. Doesn't matter though since the fact that Hagoromo alone was able to pass the seals onto Sasuke and Naruto show that they can be used together. So long as you have two hands, the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei will work for an individual.
As for Kaguya. She was amped up with all that chakra since the beginnng (overloaded and made Juubidara literally swell up and explode from all that chakra), still lacks much in showings. As for her Godoudama, it's hyped to create a dimension. However we dont know the size or characteristics of the dimension. Could it be planet sized? Country sized? Island sized? we dont know, thus it's unquantifiable especially since said attack never even got to happen.
I know. She just didn't utilize all of that chakra until she started to turn into a chakra rabbit or w/e that was. She lacked in firepower showings UNTIL the chapter where she generated her expansive Gudoudama.
It creates a dimension by destroying the one she was on (the genesis dimension) and reshaping it. You see the part in the wiki where it says that it obliterates the world and reduces it to nothing? And that it's created to reshape the world? That's the power of her Gudoudama. And we do know the characteristics of the dimension seeing as we see a moon-sized object moving away from the orbit of a planetoid that is most likely Earth-sized, given the size of the moon and the fraction of the circumference of the planetoid we see on-panel. All of that was going to be destroyed by Kaguya. The author stated the attack potential of the strongest attack from the strongest character in the series at her strongest form. This isn't unquantifiable when we know that an attack is capable of the destruction of a dimension containing a planet in it, and 'course it did not happen. It is quantifiable, and it's quantified to be planet level when you have an attack stated to be able to destroy the world that the dimension housed.
God tier space aliens planet bust.
scans of logias affected by poison/everyday chemical agents?
Unless you have a scan of logias being immune to said chemicals, there's no reason you should interpret their logia bodies to be immune to them when there's no evidence of that being the case here.
in fact we dont know for sure. just because you dont think its possible doesnt mean it actually is. this doesnt serve as an argument whatsoever (typical strawman fallacy)
It's obvious that they're not.
he can escape easily from something like that with yata no kagami. for light to not be able to escape from gravity you would need a black hole.
No he can't. He's never shown the ability to transverse multi-country distances with that ability (which is the AoE of Madara's CT), so no he's really not going to escape it. Plus, seeing as he needs some time to actually use it, the technique would have already been disrupted as he's being pulled in by the CT.
scans where he says he is physical 99% of the time? remember when he arrived at shabondy and somebody shot him? that's right his intan was on. in fact you could say he is light 99% of the time without even being concious of that.
in fact kizaru can touch people and be intangible at the same time. proven by how he was stepping on zoro and ignoring brook's attacks all at the same time.
Is Kizaru a walking piece of glowing light wherever he goes?
Logias have to either enter their logia state by reflex when an attack hits or activate it and keep it on prior to an attack. But it's been shown that they can be caught off guard and contacted physically without Haki. Reacting to a bullet from a fodder is something effortless on Kizaru's part, and I do agree that he may be unconscious of it, because that's what a reflex is, and what's how he survived the music attack a few chapters afterwards. But attacks faster than his reflexes as well as ones that he cannot react to bypasses that intangibility, and that's what Limbo is for. His body is fluid, but it certainly isn't invulnerable. Kizaru can touch and be intangible at the same time because he transforms part of his body into that of a logia while leaving the rest physical. But when he's attacking, he's flesh and body.
a useless arsenal TBH. and its not an interpretation, its pure one piece logic. i can provide scans on every claim i have given.
It's not useless seeing as I listed a variety of hax that is effective against Kizaru, attacks that can disperse him beyond regeneration, as well as potential attacks that can harm him like Haki (though that's arguable and I'm not going to get into that).
And yes, please do provide scans for your claims.
even luffy dodged lightbeams. kizaru is above him so rectionwise he is far above madara. (thanks to haki)
i would love to see scans of madara soul ripping BTW. your argument is totally out of character.
like i said 1 million times, madara needs to grab the opponent in order to perform soul suck. he cant grab light.
What? Are you implying Madara is at Luffy level, lol?
Madara can rip off anyone's soul so long as he has that option to do so when every other option has failed him. Though the rest of the options are fine. Kizaru's light is fluid and physical, not much different from Akainu or Aokiji. All that's needed is physical contact, and there is physical contact, however slight it may be. Kizaru is light and is made of light when he is in his light mode. All Madara has to do is tag him when he's not in his light mode, in order to attack. Although there's less soul ripping and more atomizing flesh parts with Omnyoten.
@phantomrant:Well might as well say my case now for why I dont buy it. Nothing from Kaguya or anything said about her even hints to being a planet destroyer. Hagoromo isnt moon level, his move Sage of Six Path Chibaku Tensei requires someone else like his brother to do and it's hardly a moon level attack in actualy destruction. The moon created is merely the product of the act of sealing the target so it's hardly even an actual attack.
Hagoromo can create the moon by himself. First time he did it was with his brother (although this just means it's better to have two people fighting against a superior opponent to carry out the task rather than one person with all the power doing it by themselves. It would have been a horrendous failure if Hagoromo, Naruto, or Sasuke were fighting alone with the Yin/Yang seals when it's clear it's their teamwork that allowed them to tag Kaguya). Second time was when he was near his deathbed and had already divided the Juubi's chakra into the nine Bijuu, and created the moon all by himself. I am aware that it isn't actual destruction. That much is clear to me. Doesn't change the fact that he is still moon level, and that the energy needed to create the moon is exactly equal to (though often above) the energy needed to destroy the moon. And this obviously has combat applications, and can be used for powerscaling for Kaguya (and arguably Sasuke/Naruto as the OBD folks were doing, not that I care).
You're not buying it, because you missed the pieces of information that indicates that she can planet bust. The 4th databook (not sure how much you read of it) along with manga scans state that her strongest technique - the massive Gudoudama is capable of destroying everything within the Genesis Dimension and reshaping it into a new dimension. The creation of a new dimension was stated on-panel, but how it was created was clarified by the databook. And it makes sense, seeing as how Kaguya was at her strongest form - with the Juubi, Shinju, Chakra Fruit, and the chakra of all the shinobi under the influence of Infinite Tsukiyomi (it is mainly the fact that she has the chakra of all shinobi that she was able to create a planet-busting Gudoudama. Without them, she would not be at her prime), whereas Hagoromo lacked all of those things but still had the power to create the moon, and outright stated his mother was a league above him. Quoting from the databook/wiki description:
Kaguya uses the Shinju to absorb chakra from all of the shinobi and create a maximised Truth-Seeking Ball. The equivalent black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode cannot be compared to its dimensions. It had the power to obliterate the world and return it to nothing. It was comprised of all chakra natures, a vast, expanding mass is filled to the brim. Created to reshape the world, it was a huge mass of chaos.
Though it takes charge time as it was shown on-panel, Kaguya was about to destroy the celestial body that Naruto and the others were fighting on and reshape it. And we know that the celestial body should be Earth-size, seeing as how we see the moon as the Narutoverse knows it being lifted from its surface, and we only saw a small circumference of the celestial body on-panel when it happened. Eyeballing tells you that it wouldn't be hard to fit roughly 50 of those same moons in there, and there you have a legit planet size.
Bee will likely be the only one left after a barrage of spammed Bijuudamas. Taking out Ace by dispersing him beyond regeneration would be no problem. Marco is durable enough or has the regenerative power to take attacks on a Bijuudama's relative level, but Marco himself has nothing to put Bee down with, and when it comes down to attrition, Marco is more likely to be worn down or revert back to a physical form while Hachibi Bee still has the reserves to keep on with superior firepower.
1.-sleep pollen does nothing unless pollen affects photons?
2.-chibaku tensei would work...if it had the gravity of a black hole.
3.- something he never did, besides he needs to grab the opponent, good luck grabbing light.
4.- only if there is a full moon and he isnt bothered by anyone?
kizaru has precognition and lightspeed, and has tanked island busters with no damage at all. he will eventually take it.
after 100 kicks at the speed of light madara will become a pile of trash.
1. That's not how logias work. Just because Kizaru has a DF that can cahnge him into light photons doesn't mean his body composition cannot be affected by everyday chemical agents like everyone else in the verse. That's like saying he's immune that logias are immune to mind control because their brains are made of magma, light, or whatever. It's also saying that he's immune to poison, when that's clearly now how his DF or anyone else's DF works here. Once he takes in that pollen, he's off in a doze.
2. No it does not have to. Kizaru gets attracted to a gravity sphere like everything else. You dont need black hole level gravitiatonal attraction to disrupt light, and you don't need that level of gravity to pull in someone who is by all means still physical.
3. He'll grab him when he's physical, which he will be 99% of the time.
4. No there does not have to be a full moon, and he can do it whenever he wants it, which would be as soon as possible since he plans to enslave the world.
Precognition is not going to help him at all. And so what if he's lightspeed? He's only lightspeed when he's traveling as light, and it's not going to help him much unless he's running away from Madara. Kizaru has never ever tanked any island busters. Madara has so much more going for him in his arsenal than what your interpretation of the Pika Pika no Mi is giving for Kizaru.
He's never going to get to those 100 kicks at the speed of light, seeing as he doesn't have the combat reactions to kick immediately after he exits his light form. Madara will intercept him while Kizaru is charging up an attack like WB did. Perfect time for soul-ripping. It's a terrible idea for Kizaru to try into CQC with Madara. Kizaru's kicks aren't even going to put Madara down. They don't have an ounce of Gai's Night Moth kicking power (that still failed to kill Madara), plus it's easy for Madara to quickly regenerate before Kizaru can execute another attack, defend himself with an Omnyoten barrier, or bash Kizaru aside with Limbo. Kizaru has nothing going on for him against Madara.
@phantomrant: he is light.
Which means nothing when Madara has:
- Sleep pollen
- Chibaku Tensei
- The ability to rip out souls
- Infinite Tsukiyomi
^ Half of which will give him a free opportunity to kill Kizaru when he is not in his light mode.
You're cruel making me pick between these characters lol. What's EOS Scryed looking like? I only watched the anime.
It's the same as the anime, since the anime is the original canon.
S-cry-ed has more AoE, packs a little bit more power, and their speeds have been more impressive. They'd smash Team Naruto's faces in once they get the chance to get into contact with them.