phantomrant (Level 10)

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Post by phantomrant (1,531 posts) See mini bio Level 10
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Battles » Akira Kongou vs Heracles

Heracles should have more going for him.

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Battles » Kazuma Torisuna & Ryuho Ryu VS Lord Boros & Saitama

@SMXLR8 said:

@phantomrant: and what if there was no BFR

Then I wouldn't know until I see this manga moon level feat scan.

Saitama may very well not need speed equal since Genos has a laser-timing feat from recent chapters (relativistic reactions; reacted to several beams of light from a robot), and Saitama can casually speedblitz him.

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Battles » Sebastian vs. Alexander Anderson

@CerusSerenade said:

@phantomrant: If Anderson was really bullet timing he would have gotten out of the way of the bullets or sliced them while moving around them. He did not, he had to try to protect himself by raising his arms

You asked for bullet-timing feats and I provided them. Bullet timing at the baseline is reaction to bullets. Doesn't matter how he bullet-timed, but he reacted TO them. Anderson always tries to tank things rather than dodge them, so his choice of protection rather than moving his head out of the way or slicing them in half (which he can do anyway - although they would shatter upon impact - so he was smart not to do so) doesn't discredit it as a bullet-timing feat.

and his arms weren't actually fast enough to keep up, you can see his arms and bullets move at the same time, there is no comparison.

I don't know watchu mean.

I'm not going to argue any further on this based on those two showings, he isn't bullet timing, ask anyone else and they'll tell you the same thing. Sebastian is plucking bullets out of the air while his back is turned while already holding a pot of tea. Anderson can only raise his arms to try and protect himself. Based on this Sebastian wins because Alexander cannot tag Sebastian.

Is there a particular reason as to why you're not responding to the last point of my previous post? Or how I've repeated over and over again that he's known for speedblitzing casual bullet timers? Because whether or not Anderson has bullet-timing feats or not doesn't change the fact that he's going to blitz Sebastian once he's within 1-2 meters. Sebastian only plucked a bullet once, and that was a chapter 4 feat IIRC.

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General Discussion » Can minority world work on Bleach characters

@flashback180 said:

Shimigamis are made up of spiritual partials,everything in soul society is made up off it . the very essence is a different fictional material, I think it shouldn't work.

What do you guys think?

Yes. Minority World works by enacting the Square Root Law upon micro-particles. In the Toriko World (and most fictional verses), those micro-particles would be atoms. But it still applies to the Bleach World in that reishi is targeted. Reishi still makes molecules and cells, so that's no reason why Minority World cannot be used to manipulate the minority atoms (or minority "reishi" if you care) that exist in the bodies of Shinigami and Hollows.

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Battles » Kazuma Torisuna & Ryuho Ryu VS Lord Boros & Saitama

@SMXLR8 said:

@phantomrant: what if speed was equal?

They can still send Team OPM into the Altar dimension.

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Battles » Kazuma Torisuna & Ryuho Ryu VS Naruto and Sasuke

@waybig1010101 said:

Seems like a pretty decent series to watch one day when I get a chance.

Oh yes, it's a great series. Though the art quality can be meager, the OST and style of the series are great, and it has an action-packed plotline as well as good characterization and interactions between the cast. There is a very cool charry from there named Straight Cougar who's also one of my most favorite anime characters of all time.

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Battles » Kazuma Torisuna & Ryuho Ryu VS Naruto and Sasuke

@waybig1010101 said:

@SMXLR8: wow that's pretty short. Was the series always strong or was it towards the end that they get OPish,

First several episodes Kazuma was at multi city block/town level for splitting a cliff and a cloud. half-way through the series kazuma and ryuho was able to produce a collision shockwave that leveled some mountains and threatened the island they were fighting on (and this was an actual island seeing as there was a city in it and it was only part of the island). So they were city/mountain level, there.

It was only episodes 24-26 when they showed their BFR hax and country-level firepower.

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Battles » Hiei and Sasuke vs Gaoh

Hiei is at Gaoh's level, already, so he can take him down himself with high diff.

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Battles » Kazuma Torisuna & Ryuho Ryu VS Lord Boros & Saitama

@SpeedForceSpider said:

Manga Kazuma could actually solo.

He would.

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#Anime Vice Discussion Threads » Parasyte: The Maxim Discussion

Nice to see two episodes come out taday

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Battles » Naruto Uzumaki Vs Jio Freed

@akronawol17 said:

@phantomrant: i'm just saying, we don't know the size of the land for sure, nor the shape or layout. like i said, it could just be a large chunk of land that cuts off into an abyss, we simply don't know. it could be moin level, judging by the sealing Naruto and Sasuke did and the amount of earth they used, but that's the highest i see it going honestly

Uh... we have a pretty good minimum for the size of the land. The minimum being moon level+. Layout? The dimension is referred to as a mountaneous region, so I guess it's all made of rock. We have a pretty good estimate on the shape. From the viewpoint we have of the panel where we see the moon, we can deduce that the dimensional body is spherical. And even if it's not, you could certainly put in a few more of those craters on what we see on-panel, so the Gudoudama would still be multi-moon level (it wouldn't be just moon level seeing as it only took up part of the land that we see on-panel.) I highly doubt that any of the dimensions had an abyss (that isn't outer space), seeing as they are supposed to be specific embodiments of particular elements/themes.

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Battles » Naruto Uzumaki Vs Jio Freed

@CosmicKnight75 said:

Also, Im definitely not going over this again. Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, Naruto character just have bad durability to physical attacks and that their ability to absorb chakra has a lot to do with their best durability examples? Same Naruto ripping her arm off, Sasuke easily slicing Juubidara in half, etc.

Having significantly lower durability to physical (and cutting) attacks compared to energy attacks is a trend among all battle mangas as a result of surface area mechanics or because fiction says so. It's nothing new, and certainly not unique to Naruto. There have been several cases of Naruto characters who can take physical attacks feats very well. Also most of Naruto's durability feats don't involve absorbing chakra at all. The only one I can think of is Nagato absorbing V2 Bee's Lariat and not getting damaged right after. Aside from that, they outright tank chakra attacks no different from how Bleach characters go about tanking Ceros. I don't remember BM Naruto absorbing the Juubi's Bijuudama beam to tank it. He legit took the full blunt of the attack upfront, and the same goes for other cases where a Naruto character has to face off against a chakra attack.

Those are pretty bad examples... Juubijins tend to have be weak against Senjutsu. Sasuke enhanced his blade with Hagoromo's chakra (which is also stated by Sasuke to be effective against Juubijins) that was saturated with natural energy. The fact that it's a cutting attack also makes it easier for it to peirce Juudara's body. Naruto ripping her arm off is a combination of it being Senjutsu chakra enhancing a physical cutting attack (it was a cutting attack seeing as he used the claws of his chakra cloak to cut it off).

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Battles » Naruto Uzumaki Vs Jio Freed

@CosmicKnight75 said:

@phantomrant: So now YYH characters arent what they because it just word of mouth, you do realize that Zetsu, the lil Kaguya fangirl who kept believing mommy was invincible when he couldnt be more wrong, and his statement is what started all this right? I suppose Naruto characters are Universe destroyers too right because their word of mouth is suddenly more legit?

Word of Mouth says that Sensui would have placed too much stress on the planet. What does the hype mean? It means he's a planetary threat. What I'm saying is that people who take that further beyond the literal context of Word of Mouth into something like destroying the Earth (when planetery threats =/= planet busters) are taking it to hyperbolic levels. Word of God states that Kaguya would have obliterated the world and reduced it to nothing. That right there literally means that she can destroy the dimension she was on. There's nothing hyperbolic that's taken out of context. The next question is how big is the dimension? We don't know how big the actual dimension is, but we do know that it had a moon and something that's massively bigger (a few dozen times by my estimate) than that moon. Which is why I'm saying that her Gudoudama can planet busy.

@CosmicKnight75 said:

I take Kaguya's planet-busting claim as serious as I take the above statement, and in case you dont know how serious that means, the above image has been the butt of jokes between me and my buddy GeneralVan at least twice now.

Then you're denying canonical statements that are legit as there's nothing contradicting it, and is supported by the manga. I don't really care though, as of course there'd be people who can't reason it through. But there is no doubt that her Gudodama could destroy the dimension she was on once it was completed, and no doubt that that also means destroying a moon and a celestial body massively bigger than that. The rest that could be interpretated I don't care about.

*shrugs* Sure, you showed a prime example of a hyperbolic statement. "Absolute" statements like that do tend to be hyperbolic. As are light-speed statements that are thrown around constantly. But those light-speed statements could be found in other mangas too, which suggests it's more like a metaphorical trend that refers to something that's very high speed but not necessarily light-speed. Plus, there are contradictions to it.

What's contradicting the fact that Kaguya is a planet buster that I haven't already responded to? There is no contradiction and it still makes sense in the context of the manga.

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Battles » Naruto Uzumaki Vs Jio Freed

@akronawol17 said:

@phantomrant: i don't rember seeing the circumference of the dimension? it looked pretty big, but nowhere near planet sized. just using scaling from the tiny area we saw of it isn't good enough, for all we know it could cut off into a bottomless pit at some point or something.

as for being a planetary threat, Sensui was stated to be the threat, but he's a low S class... the high S classes are over 100 times stronger, and could kill Sensui with a flick. so mostly hype is why they're put near planetary honestly

It's in Chapter 690. I'm just saying if you draw out the sphere outline of the dimensional body, and trry to fit the moon in there (the moon, not the crater), a few dozen times, then you should get a volume similar to that of Earth. It left a massive crater on a small portion of the dimensional body, as we could see from an outer space-like point of view. Tbh, I could settle for something like multi-moon/small planet level, but the destructive potential of her Gudoudama is relatively close to planet level, if not at that level already.

He's a planetery threat, but not cessarily a planet buster. Same as how Lucy and Taikoubou/Jyoka are planetary threats, but cannot necessarily destroy the planet as a whole (without destroying the core or doing it over a long period of time).

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Battles » Naruto Uzumaki Vs Jio Freed

@CosmicKnight75 said:

@phantomrant:

For Yu Yu characters

"A single Lower S class Demon is strong enough to defeat a horde of five-hundred Upper A classes Demons by themselves with relatively little effort and are capable of the destroying the Earth."

"Each S-class demon has immense power, earning the fears of the Spirit World, of being capable of destroying the planet, both in immense strength and powerful energy based abilities such as barriers, blasts, and dimension distortions."

I do not believe that there is a manga or databook citation for any of that that.... so I'm guessing that is simply an incorrect paraphrasing on part of a fan editor, and not actual canonical reference? That's no different from some Naruto fan editor who stated that Doton: Domu involved manipulation of carbon a few years ago.

Sensui's own quote: "This planet and it's physics cant contain me" or something along those lines.

It was just stress on the planet. No form of the word "destroy" was used. Kaguya's attack was said to have obliterate the world and return it to nothing, and WB was stated by Sengoku to be able to destroy the world. And Kaguya's attack seems to be more specific than something stated by Word of Mouth.

They throw around what an S-Class can do in the show so much it's not even funny and they go through said lengths to keep them away too. Even then I doubt they can bust the planet. Same reason Kaguya shouldnt be considered a planet-buster off a vague statement and now saying the attack was "absorbed" along with Kaguya with the sealing move as a poor excuse for it's equally poor performance, especially since sealing her up isnt what stopped it, but rather them simply attacking her and Sakura of all people punching her out.
Outside Sage of Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, Naruto characters wish they were even Continental.

The Word of God in this case is a pretty specific statement. Kishimoto isn't gonna state that it's gonna obliterate the world and return it to nothing if it isn't capable of doing so. It's more specific than "it's gonna destroy the world/dimension" or something along the lines of that. There is nothing contradicting the statement.

Well, I didn't say the attack was absorbed.... I just stated that it crumbled away because its completion was prevented. Attacks can return to nothing if its user can no longer manipulate energy you know. It doesn't have to go off like a bomb from what's left of it.

Where you'd connect Sakura punching her out to the Gudoudama's crumbling from? Six paths Chibaku Tensei SEALED her chakra. Which would of course cause her technique to crumble away as well. That's a more logical reason than Sakura punching her in the head when that would have done no permanent damage nor prevented from using techniques.

Yeah I'm done debating here, let me know why Planet-busting Kaguya got punched out by Sakura too.

Lol. Ever heard of PIS? It's an obvious case of PIS. Although what prevented her from using a planet busting attack was the six paths chibaku tensei. That was what the whole battle came down to. Whether or not they could use the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei to seal her before she could fully use her Gudoudama to reshape the world.

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Battles » Naruto Uzumaki Vs Jio Freed

@akronawol17 said:

firstly, seeing a moon there does not mean the dimension was a full planet. we have no idea how big it is really, so assuming its a whole planet is debatable. also, we don't know how quickly/easily the attack would've destroyed the dimension, for all we know it would've taken a few minutes or mere seconds

as for YYH characters, Sensui stated him powering up to a mere 1/5 power he was putting too much stress on the planet, and he had to go to the demon realm. but that's a debate for another time lol

Just eyeball it. We could see the circumference of the dimensional body they were on (so we know it's spherical), and that it's only a small fraction of the full circumference. I could draw out what the sphere would actually look like and compare the sizes of the moon and the dimensional body to see if it's gonna fit in there a few dozen times or not.

The Gudoudama can expand in an instant, and was stated to continuously grow. I think we can slap a few second time-frame should it explode.

Yeah, but that isn't planet-busting right? All it meant was that it would threaten the planet. "Destruction" was never used.

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Battles » Naruto Uzumaki Vs Jio Freed

@CosmicKnight75 said:

@ohplease: Because those truth seeking balls are pretty small and arent hyped to "create dimensions" or planet bust are they. Anything with that much energy doesnt just simply disperse into nothing. And it didn't say it would destroy the planet either. Just start another one of her dimensions which we dont even know the size of. Revisiting this claim over and over again is starting to get annoying. Really, if this is all it takes, then Yu Yu Hakusho characters and Prime Whitebeard who can "destroy the world" are planet busters too.

That's just perception vs. reality. Since when did the size of something determine its destructive potential though? Gudodamas are explosive, don't you know? It's been stated on-panel that Kaguya's Expansive Gudoudama (hint: Expansive) is ridiculously bigger than the normal-sized Gudoudama that Naruto, Madara, and Obito carried on them. Not really to see how they'd expand to cover the entire planet (Kakashi hinted at this seeing as he stated that if it were to continue to get bigger, then there was no way they'd be able to return to the dimension they were on).

The Gudoudama she created crumbled away because Naruto and Sasuke prevented her from completing it. Reason being that they sealed her chakra control and turned her into a gravity core for Chibaku Tensei. Thus, her control over her Gudoudama was lost, and the Gudoudama disappeared.

It didn't say it would destroy the planet, but we know that by destroying the Genesis Dimension, she would also be destroying a planet-sized object made of rock seeing as we see a moon that was stated to be of comparable size to the one on Earth being lifted from the dimensional body that they were on. And that the moon was only a small volume of the dimensional body's volume. All oft his is just visual logic.

Kaguya's dimension-busting Gudoudama statement has more precedence over Prime WB's planet busting statement, seeing as we know how it would destroy stuff (reducing to to dust) and it was specified a statement made on-panel in the manga that a new dimension would come out of it. Basically destruction and rebirth. Prime WB could be a planet buster for all we care. Not sure why YYH characters are planet busters though, seeing as they were never stated to be able to destroy the planet.

@CosmicKnight75 said:

@phantomrant: Hell, we dont even know the size of that planet their on or if its even the size of Earth since it's all in some other dimension so the feat is unquantifiable really, and again all it's hyped to do is bring about a new dimension from some unknown method and it simply dispersed into nothing anyway. Not repeating this again. Especially since your main argument is the data-book that clearly loves to throw terms like lightspeed and planet-busting around.

The creation of the new dimension is part of the Gudoudama's ability to reshape the current dimension into something new, but to do that, it first reduces everything in the Genesis Dimension into nothing. It's just destruction and rebirth (don't forget Omnyoten is also a Yin-Yang ability which allows the Otsutsukis to create form out of nothing, and then breathe life into that form. There be a reason as to why Kaguya was referred to as a god-like figure). It's as simple as that.

The only thing the databook likes to throw around is the light-speed phrase. And although it's not necessarily true, it does mean that the technique is significantly faster than techniques that may not have that kind of hype. But if the databook specifies the strongest technique in the series to be an attack that can destroy and reshape a dimension, then that is a reliable author's statement (especially since it's the first time it's ever stated in the naruto databooks).

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Battles » Naruto Uzumaki Vs Jio Freed

@CosmicKnight75 said:

@phantomrant: Already went over this and why I'm not buying it

Please go over it again.

Kaguya was able to increase the destructive potential of her Gudoudama by absorbing all of the chakra that was acquired from everyone that was captured by the Shinju (which basically means everyone on the planet). Her strongest attack was gonna destroy the world she was in, which did house a planet in it (or a planet-sized body).

@ohplease said:

In Naruto chapter 674, that lightning attack that Madara uses was natural lightning according to the databook. Naruto and Sasuke reacted to it pretty easily. That Storm Release attack that Naruto dodged in the same chapter was a light speed attack. Naruto dodged it even while he was immobile. Again, Kishimoto writes his databooks. Since the author himself wrote about the technique's info, it should be accepted.

Mhm... I don't know about the Yin Lightning being natural lightning. Ah, I knew about the Storm Release one. The lightspeed movement is hyperbolic, no different from previous light-speed incidents in the manga/databook (with the sole exception being Mabui's technique perhaps). The guy who translated the technique said so.

@akronawol17 said:

t said Kaguya would destroy the dimension, not the planet iirc

A moon of comparable size to the one on Earth was being lifted from the dimensional body that the fight was taking place on. It was only a small portion of the body's volume, so it can be concluded that it would be of at least similar size to Earth, at least.

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Battles » Sebastian vs. Alexander Anderson

@CerusSerenade said:

@phantomrant: Neither of those show bullet timing, rather preparing to be shot at. Sebastian on the other hand can pluck bullets right out of the air after being shot while preparing tea while his back is turned. Speed still goes to Sebastian.

Uh.... no. Anderson guarded himself after the bullets were fired. Same goes for when he intercepted the Jackal bullet.

I don't see why catching bullets gives Sebastian the speed advantage, when a severely weakened Alucard who just woke up from his slumber was able to do the same thing against Richard Hellsing's pistol that was aimed at Alucard's head at point-blank (and Alucard was hardly looking at the barrel).

Anderson was able to blitz him and pin him to a wall with his bayonets before he could do anything about it. He cuts Sebastian's arm before he can actually touch him.

And why do you care about whether or not Anderson has bullet-timing feats when there are far better ways to assess his speed (or the speed of fictional characters in general) than what bullets he reacted to and how he did so.

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