starjun after awakening? he takes this by scailing
starjun pre cooking fest loses.
@flashback180: ? ...you are questioning very concept of ki .ki has always been stated to make you PHYSICALLY STRONGER .
this is from kaizzenshu .
it does increase strenght, i never said it didnt. however the energy aura does most of the damage when it comes to attacks. the article says it. "training your muscles only gets you so far"
further proven by how goku bashes the USSJ transformation because it gave him too much muscle. that's another proof of how they really rely on ki as an energy source rather than for muscle.
piccolo jr was easily more than 40 tons anyway u look at it.
goku flipped piccolo, goku with weights is fighting with all that weight on. besides, its likely gravity is amped on the kais planet. still if goku had planet level strenght he should be lifting a planet with ease at super saiyan.
all the training they ever make is on amped gravity and weights(never cannonly passing the 100 ton limit), and obviously not even close to the likes of supes,which is on the same category as goku in DC,speed etc.
there are 3 instances that make me question why Z fighters struggle with what should be little weight to them:
1.-gravity training: are you kidding me? 300 times gravity was killing the planet level yamucha. and multi moon level goku was struggling soo hard. he even generates ki blasts while training so he is raising his ki there.
2.-goku's weight training: are you kidding me? goku had to raise his PL to the 150,000,000 mark to lift the theoretical 40,000 tons.
3.-Z sword: are you kidding me? a sword not too heavy to colapse the mountain it was set in, yet gohan had to goku SSJ2 to take it.
i just remembered a 4th instance: goku and piccolo dramatically increasing their speed after removing a couple hundred pounds of weight from their clothes. (are you kidding me?)
just how weak these guys are against weight???
1.-toriyama fails and there is no point to this argument
2.-toriyama fails and there is no point to this argument
DBZ has never really cared about feats and numbers after sayien saga , it followed the A>B>C concept .based on the original power scale.
well, that's very bad, because people can sometimes overstimate or understimate Z fighters, and that's not good for these type of arguments.
.south kai was mocking king kai . he doesn't know what goku can do, goku doesn't even exist in south kais galaxy ..
wasnt this after he saw what goku could do on the other world tournament? besides goku is kinda overkill for this example, what would have happened if someone like krillin tried to train with all that weight? by the time of that saga krilin was planet level.
damn this lag its the worst since ive joined the vice.
nice fight. i still remember how doflamingo dominated both jozu and sanji with ease. i also remember how zoro held his ground against fujitora.
this is pretty good IMO.
@flashback180:KI hardens the body
is that stated in the series? ki seems to envelop the user in an energy barrier instead of hardening the body.
And whats with this strength form muscle thing.... in the end its just force , i don't want to go into the science of it using some kinetic energy law.
explain to me then how can 40 tons force goku's arms down? (be it 40-40000000 tons, goku should be able to lift a planet right?)
second,we could very well have a case of split durability here such as what happens with wonder woman. (trades punches with supes, still vulnerable to gun fire)
we have seen goku amp his ki via super saiyan in order to lift those weights.
moreover there are virtually no lifting feats on dragon ball and the punches they take are ki enhanced which means its no longer kinetic energy what they are dealing with. unless you wanna argue that ki energy is kinetic energy?
BTW even the kai suggests goku can get injured with too much weight
@othus12: iirc that never happened in the manga also did you even bother reading my posts previouse page? Lifting is irrelevant anyways since they can punch ppl with planet level durability. Desperate ppl smh.
its not irrelevant. it shows a limit to their muscles. you know what happens when a person lifts more than he can? his muscles rip appart.
if someone like toriko grabbed gohan he could very well rips his muscles appart.
NLF. cell tanked it. explain how's that possible.
2.-im pretty sure that was filler
Both Anime scenes?
Power levels lets the viewer gauge how much more stronger character A is compared to character B
Also Disregarding Power levels would be disregarding super saiyan multipliers
everything you are discussing here is non cannon.