@DBZ_universe: This. The manga's really good, more interesting than Bleach imo.
@Sonata: How could I forget about the point blank Kamehameha when I mentioned it in my post? I said his durability's impressive, it really is, especially when he gets that barrier up but he has a massive weakness which can be exploited and will be exploited when his opponent is someone who is his equal. Even if they're slightly worse, they'll still be a lot more powerful than a FPSSJ.
I'm using the Cell Jrs because I want to show you how strong SSJ2 Gohan is, not how strong USSJ Vegeta is. He destroyed them in an instant, 7 of them. I'm saying to you that Broly's feat of beating 2 FPSSJs, 2 USSJs and 1 Namek iin a couple of moves is less impressive than Gohan's of defeating all 7 Cell Jr's with one move each.
Power and Speed I give to the SSJ2s and Durability I give to Broly. But like the guy above me said, Frieza survived Namek exploding and he was weaker than a SSJ. Just because they haven't shown it doesn't mean it can't be done. Also there's a difference between surviving and exploding planet and surviving a planet busting attack. The planet busting attack may be capable of destroying something far greater than just the planet alone and by Cell Saga level a planet busting attack would probably be tantamount to at least a multi planet busting attack.
But I can see we're not going to agree on this, which is fine. Unless you post something I find really wrong in the next post consider this my last for this thread lol.
@Sonata: But you're completely disregarding what SSJ2 Gohan can do and he showed fighting feats which were more impressive than what Broly showed, that's the point I keep trying to make. The only super amazing thing he's done is to "destroy" a galaxy and tank a Kamehameha, other than that he's not shown anything more impressive than Teen Gohan.
Also Adult Gohan was waaaay weaker than Teen Gohan. I've got scans if you need. One is where Goku says something like "Try to awaken your anger like you did against Cell" and the other was when Goku powered up to SSJ2, after training for 7 whole years in the afterlife, Vegeta comments something like "You're even more powerful than Gohan was" which shows that even after all that training Vegeta's still surprised Goku was stronger than Gohan.
But this is off topic again lol.
My final conclusion is this. SSJ2 Gohan beats movie 8 Broly, no problem. SSJ2 Vegeta struggles against movie 8 Broly but finds Broly's weakness and wins the fight. SSJ2 Vegeta loses against movie 10 Broly.
That's all I'm done with this thread.
They're all multi planet busters so I don't understand what the deal is? I'm not questioning Broly's durability either, he's very durable and easily more durable than a SSJ2 but that doesn't make him stronger than one. From the feats I've shown in the scans and the feats that Broly has shown in movie 8, which is the Broly I keep talking about, SSJ2 is a superior transformation.
I haven't mentioned movie 10 Broly once lol, I don't know if you noticed. Broly 10 is probably stronger than your average SSJ2, yes I can admit that. Plus the fact that he suffered a near fatal wound and as the LSSJ he's constantly powering up, he is stronger than a SSJ2.
But movie 8 would lose.
Pretty much everyone lol. I haven't seen much proof, can you actually point me to the proof you provided through all this crap that has been going on in the last few pages lol. I feel like I'm the only one trying to stay on topic here. We've had planet busting feats questioned, which I don't get why and now we have Hirudegarn being questioned (although I can understand why, which was to show that DBZ movie villains are always ridiculously OPed at the start of the movie).
Once again though, I'm not accepting galaxy busting as proof. It wasn't a regular occurence, we have no idea how it happened or over what time period or even how much of the galaxy was even destroyed. Maybe he only destroyed parts of the galaxy, certainly if had wiped out the whole galaxy I doubt there would be a planet on which to fight upon seeing as gravity would have probably flung it all over the place or ripped it apart. Also the feat itself was well beyond anything ever shown in DB and Broly was a villain who was introduced during the Cell Saga?!?
I'm pretty partial to changing my mind, I have done so several time in light of new evidence being provided but it seems a lot of people on this forum won't change their mind regardless of what evidence anyone posts. You even get extremes of this like that originalgoku guy who was adamant Goku was a universal level threat.
I have provided plenty of scans showing Gohan rolfstomping all over Cell and I showed a scan of Vegeta fighting a Cell Jr to a stalemate, even showing disbelief at how strong they were. Cell himself stated that it was only a matter of time till they fell and the scans clearly show that the Cell Jrs are USSJ level. Gohan killed each Cell Jr (aka a USSJ equivalent) in one hit without batting an eyelid. Everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring those....
Where's your evidence of Broly being so great? If you resort to posting that DB video game opening of Gogeta fighting Broly, well I just don't know what to say after that. Or maybe you'll post something about Broly destroying the galaxy? I remember everyone having a big go at that originalgoku guy for saying Janemba's reality warping feat shown at the start of the film was just a whole load of PIS, but those same people keep saying Broly was a galaxy destroyer and could've wiped out the whole universe bla bla bla. Some guy a few pages back posted another DB Budokai ending of Broly destroying the universe and actually used that as evidence.
Edit: Oh wow lol the guy above me just used the Gogeta feat I was writing this post lol.I expect better than that lol.
That's a crap and cheap way to win lol. When have they ever just destroyed the planet they were fighting on, unless they were desperate or something? DBZ would be crap if Frieza had simply destroyed Namek at the start of his fight with Goku or if Cell had decided to destroy the planet at the start of the fight. Even Broly didn't destroy the planet they were fighting on.
If that's the only way Broly can win this, then that's not much of a fight really. Also everyone's gotten distracted by all this planet busting feat.
If we can just concentrate on the fact that SSJ2 Gohan was able to beat Perfect Cell down while he was at full power and easily above a FPSSJ and the fact that he effortlessly destroyed Cell Jrs who were at the very least USSJ level then anyone should be able to tell his feats surpass those of Broly's fighting feats.
I believe that SSJ2 Vegeta is at least equal to SS2 Teen Gohan, maybe slightly weaker or stronger but still more than a match for movie 8 Broly.
Either way though, even if SSJ2 Vegeta is only slightly stronger than SSJ2 Gohan or the same, with the feats I've shown and the feats shown by Broly, I would say, that at least in movie 8, SSJ2 was a higher level of transformation.
Can anyone try to prove me wrong? Without using the "galaxy busting feat" and just Broly's fighting skills.
SSJ2 Gohan took Perfect Cell out of the fight with two hits. He punched him once and Cell went backwards, he punched him again and Cell couldn't move after. He was just a quivering mess and looked like he wanted to cry. He punched Cell so hard he made him vomit a whole android out.
In the above 3 images you can see that each Cell Jr was equivalent to a USSJ or possibly even slightly stronger and were going blow to blow against Vegeta and Trunks. SSJ2 Gohan destroyed each Cell Jr with minimal effort and via powerscaling he could have killed Vegeta or Trunks in one hit each too.
The point I'm trying to make is that you can't take someone who beating up a couple of SSJs and make him the strongest character in the entire series because even SSJ2 Gohan was able to replicate similar, if not more impressive fighting feats. Bearing in mind that a SSJ3 is 4x stronger than a SSJ2, how can it even be conceivable that Broly is the most powerful character in the series.
So I hope you can understand why we Broly naysayers think Broly is massively overestimated. I would have a far easier time believing his strength if he was introduced during Buu Saga and was fighting a SSJ2 Goku, Gohan and Vegeta, then I could agree and say he's easily one of the most powerful DBZ characters in the series but the fact of the matter is his feats were no more impressive than SSJ2 Gohan's.
We have no idea how he destroyed this galaxy, or over what time period and I still maintain the feat is a massive outlier compared to everything else he has shown and, just like every other DBZ movie villain, is just a big over exaggeration of his power at the start of the film to make him look scary.
Vegeta SSJ2 is stronger than Teen Gohan, that is why he has a good chance of winning. I'm not saying a win is guaranteed but it would be a good battle.
It's got to be Pirate King. Not only do you have to fight some ridiculously strong opponents, most of whom are well beyond super human and even untouchable until you master haki, but you also have to navigate some ridiculous oceans and islands and no one even knows where One Piece is.
To be a Kage you need to be the strongest in your village and Naruto already is that. He just needs Tsunade to die so he can take over. Naruto also had a big advantage to start with in that he was given the Kyuubi's massive chakra to start with and from that point onwards it's just training and becoming the strongest. He's never had to traverse perilous oceans where everything is out to kill you including giant Sea Kings, the Navy in it's entirety, countless other Pirates and Villains etc etc.