ohgodwhy (Level 12)

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Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Minato Namikaze vs pain

I'm going to give this to Minato. He's simply too fast, he'll analyse how Pein's jutsu works realising it takes him about 5 seconds before he can use his shinra tensei as Minato was one of the most intelligent ninja seen in the series.

Seeing how Sage Naruto went to town on Pein and was completely decimating him before he ran out of Sage Chakra, I'd say Minato, who is much faster than Sage Naruto, would easily be speed blitzing Pein.

Of course we haven't really see what Pein is really capable of when his power is all within one body so I'm using the 6 paths of Pein here.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Dante vs Vash the Stampede

Dante has the clear advantage here in terms of just having better feats and skills. Plus he's nigh on invincible, he's taken a giant sword through the chest and still continued casually having a conversation before taking it out. Add time control, hypersonic movements/reactions and you can see Vash just doesn't stand a chance.

And this is all pre-devil trigger.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12
Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12
Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Frieza vs Cooler vs King cold

kazentai?

There is no official power level given for King Cold because there are no official power levels after Frieza saga. All we have is statements made by various characters that King Cold is stronger than Frieza.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Frieza vs Cooler vs King cold

It was mecha Frieza, whether or not he could power up at all is debatable. Also it's likely King Cold could power up too. The statement still stands.

"Cold himself, and Vegeta (in the original Japanese version, as well as in the English dub of Dragon Ball Kai) reference King Cold as being even more powerful than Frieza." From DBZ wiki.

There's plenty of statements that show King Cold was stronger than Frieza. Seeing as these guys can sense power levels their statements are most likely true. You'd just be guessing if you said Frieza can power up more than King Cold can.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Frieza vs Cooler vs King cold

King Cold is stronger than Frieza.

Although I do agree with everyone Cooler would take this.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Krillin & Gohan vs Goku

Yeah you have a good point there about how characters can increase their power levels temporarily to massive amounts. That probably explains how Gohan was able to harm Frieza in a mad flurry of attacks.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Luffy vs Blackbeard

@HowTerribleIsThat: That is a valid point. Maybe Blackbeard just never fought at full power against the others but then again it doesn't really explain all the other things I already mentioned above. Also it was never mentioned when Blackbeard gave him the scars. Shanks may not have been as powerful back then. When Shanks saw him at the Marineford War he effectively just told Blackbeard to get lost and it didn't look like Blackbeard wanted to face him either, despite having his new Gura powers.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Krillin & Gohan vs Goku

Well one thing that is pretty much a constant in DBZ is that if someone is powering up everyone will stand by and let them lol. Take any of Frieza's transfomations for example or when Goku went SSJ. Besides Goku can use Kaio Ken in an instant anyway. They would kill Goku before he turned Kaio Ken x2 but what I'm saying is that using DBZ logic he will inevitably be able to power up and he will win.

Krillin's destructo disk wouldn't work because Goku could easily dodge it and it would just be a waste of Ki. Goku is already aware that Krillin knows solar flare so it probably wouldn't work and he can sense power levels so even if he did get blinded, as soon as Krillin powered up to use destructo disk Goku would know where he was and could sense the attack. Destructo disk is only really effective against those who can't sense power levels.

Gohan's anger attacks have always been an anomaly. I agree his strength grows waay to dis-proportionally when he does get angry though but that is just bad writing really.

I agree that the show is very inconsistent, I've always said that but as for this fight I still believe Goku will win.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Krillin & Gohan vs Goku

@niBBit: Well Frieza's power level was stated to be over 1,000,000 and so was Piccolo's. Their exact power levels were never stated.

I'm sure there are inconsistencies but for the most part even slight power level advantages are usually enough to give someone a rather large advantage.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Krillin & Gohan vs Goku

@SpeedForceSpider: We don't actually know how powerful Gohan and Krillin were when fighting Ginyu. Personally I think they were stronger than Ginyu by that point hence why they were actually beating Ginyu. The last confirmed power level before that point was Gohan's being above 20,000 against Recoome, but that was anime only. Gohan got beaten to near death at the end of that battle so obviously he would have become far more powerful as a half sayain after eating a senzu bean.

Vegeta himself went from being someone who was getting destroyed by Recoome to being able to easily defeat Jeice, so we can see that after recovering from near death he too became far more powerful. Gohan was a lot more badly beaten up than Vegeta was so it stands to reason his power increase was a lot higher too.

A V Jump scan states that Gohan was 200,000 before his fight with Frieza. Obviously it's not canon but it gives an idea of how much more powerful Gohan would have become from the time between meeting Guru and fighting Frieza. I'd say Gohan was probably around about 30,000 by the time he fought Ginyu in Goku's body.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Krillin & Gohan vs Goku

Yes I believe that even at Kaio Ken x2 he will be able to win. It's been shown that even a difference of 1000 i.e. Vegeta vs Zarbon can make a massive difference.

Goku at Kaio Ken x2 would be 18,000 and Gohan and Krillin are 14,000 and 13,000 respectively so it's a fairly large gap between the power levels still.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Captain Ginyu (In Goku's Body) vs. Zarbon

Neither statement was made but I believe that because Ginyu can't use any of Goku's techniques then Zarbon would have the advantage here.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Captain Ginyu (In Goku's Body) vs. Zarbon

@jazmac: No need I was just looking at the manga the other day and it wasn't stated anywhere. It's Vol24 chapter012 if you want to have a look yourself, at least it was on the manga site I was using.

I think the scouter tag just means it was measured using a scouter. It says the actual source on the most right hand panel, where it'll say either Daizenshuu 7 or one of the video game titles.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Captain Ginyu (In Goku's Body) vs. Zarbon

@jazmac: Where does the Daizenshuu say his power level has gone up to 33000? On the DBZ wiki only the Super Saiya Densetsu video game states that his power level is 33000 which is strictly not cannon unless I've missed something there. As far as I'm aware only the Daizenshuu is official, all the video game power levels are usually well off compared to the power levels provided by the Daizenshuu so should be disregarded for the most part.

Also in the manga it is never stated that Ginyu's power level increases. In the anime Jeice stated while looking through a scouter that his power level was 23,000 and falling yet Goku stated he was becoming stronger. Obviously both statements contradict each other and should be ignored. In the manga he only fought Gohan and Krillin and was getting beat by both until Vegeta stepped in and took him out.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Krillin & Gohan vs Goku

Well Goku normall always fights with the intention of not killing his enemy so inevitably all his attacks wouldn't be lethal in their nature. If you read the OP it states that morals are off, therefore Goku would not hesitate to kill them.

Then I refer you back to the Dodoria vs Vegeta battle. Vegeta was merely 2000 higher than Dodoria yet he completely overwhelmed him in seconds. Vegeta shows that despite only being 2000 higher, if the killing intention is there then someone with a higher power level can kill someone without difficulty.

Or an even better example, the Vegeta vs Zarbon battle. Once again Vegeta was stronger and was easily able to dominate first form Zarbon, yet when Zarbon transformed into his monster form which was a mere increase of about 7000 he easily dominated Vegeta and left him in a near dead state in what was a very short fight.

So basically it was Zarbon (23000) being beaten pretty soundly by Vegeta (24000) and then Zarbon (30000ish) absolutely destroying Vegeta. Even slight power level changes make a massive increase in the outcome of a battle and in this battle Goku at Kaio Ken x3 would be 10,000 stronger than Gohan or Krillin. Even if he can maintain the form for only seconds, if moral are off and he's going for the kill it would be more than enough time to take them both out.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Krillin & Gohan vs Goku

@jazmac: You're right about the Goku power level thing, that was just me multiplying up wrong.

Goku can hold kaio ken x2 for a sufficiently long enough time to take out Gohan and Krillin imo. He was pretty much at kaio ken x2 during his whole fight with Vegeta. If he really needs to he could use kaio ken x3 to give him the edge to end the battle in no time. At 24,000 he would be far more than either Gohan and Krillin, just like he was compared to Vegeta. I just saw the whole fight scene in the manga and he was all over Vegeta when he used x3, in fact the only reason Vegeta even gave himself a chance was because he used Galick Gun and threatened to destroy the World.

This is Vegeta who is at 18,000, possibly even a little higher. Gohan and Krillin are at 14,000 and 13,000, they would stand no chance at all.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Battles » Krillin & Gohan vs Goku

Goku wins. With a power level of 18000 kaio ken x2 he should be able to make quick work of Gohan and Krillin. Even a slight power level advantage should make him much faster and more powerful than the other two and they just wouldn't be able to touch him. Vegeta was just 2000 stronger than Dodoria and Dodoria couldn't even touch him.

Post by ohgodwhy (1,593 posts) See mini bio Level 12

General Discussion » How strong was the original super saiyan?

Most people think the LSSJ Broly was the same transformation as the SSJ mentioned by Vegeta in that past. Personally I think the original SSJ Goku was the same as the old SSJ mentioned by Vegeta because Toriyama had originally meant for the manga to end at the Frieza saga.

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