Justice (Level 11)

Fu-Rin-Kazan!
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Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Perfect Cell vs Madoka Kaname

The girl is a goddess who fights people for all eternity and blew up a guy bigger than Earth. She is also immortal. unless this is her weakest version this is spite.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Monkey D Luffy vs Kirby

@CrosswindVortex: You have issues you need to work out. Why are you insulting people? Honestly. Speedforce and I are defending him because you are being a terrible poster by insulting your fellow vicers and being overly agressive for no reason in a debate between fictional characters. You really got to work out your personal issues before you receive a permanent ban.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Monkey D Luffy vs Kirby

@CrosswindVortex: "Kirby was not as physically powerful as most think and that his power comes from hax." The dude was just saying his power was more about hax than physical power.

@Kurohige: It's still annoying and disrespectful.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Monkey D Luffy vs Kirby

@CrosswindVortex: Okay, but why are you getting so personal with it? What I don't understand is that you were just banned like a day or two ago for that same kind of posting so you come back and do it again? You are a pretty aggressive poster, my dude.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Monkey D Luffy vs Kirby

@Saladking: Calm down, dude.

@CrosswindVortex: Didn't you just get banned for this exact kind of posting?

@Kurohige: Why are you debating against them if you agree with them....?

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Off-Topic » Calcs and why they work

"Calculations are only a more thought-out method of quantification. Actually, without calculations there would be no way to quantify anything. We know that dodging a bullet is an impressive feat because Pipboy and his brother made calcs for it before. Before that discussions were completely opinionated about speed. In a way they were even ahead of their time. They used concepts like "reaction speed" and "combat speed" which only got popular in the OBD by 2011 (IIRC, thanks to me). Anyways, like I said calculations are nothing more than a detailed analysis of a feat. I do agree that there's an extend where we would be going overboard. That's why we have unwritten rules against calc stacking and such. But you should also realize that 90% of the calcs are nothing but grade school math. They boil down to time/distance calculations, volume calculations or simple cases where you calculate KE or multiply one number with another. They are about as straightforward as it gets. And I would also like to note that the author's opinion means little if anything. If you actually get down to it, you'd realize that the majority of the authors know jackshit about the power of their creations. They simply don't care, all they do is to make these characters perform cool stuff. With the exception of maybe a very few Hard SF writter I don't think any authors stop to analyze what the characters and technologies they made are truly capable of. So with this it's natural that the power of fictional characters is inconsistent. And no, using statistical mean is a bad idea. This is fiction, an imitation of reality. Not reality itself. There's no "truth" for a character's power. There's only various viewpoints. And over the years the one viewpoint which dominates VS debates is the "positive feedback" style. This basically means to take the character's most impressive feats and take these as the said character's "true" level of ability. Why? In short it's because the others lead to much hypocrisy and potential abuses. Yeah, much more than this "positive feedback" style. That's roughly the gist of it."

" Unfortunately, too often people put a set of "rules" over the laws of physics in a fiction. It is fair enough to say that there is a common trope which means physics law X doesn't exist in that universe, but you have to be able to show examples within that universe. You can't just say "there's a rule against it, so it doesn't apply".

The one thing I would disagree about in this blog post is that calculations make the debate less fun. It seems to me that seems a lot of the debates about feats in the pre-calc era basically consisted of pages and pages of a more sophisticated version of "no it isn't, yes it is". This still happens, in fact, for certain feats before anyone can be bothered to calc it. That isn't interesting. Calculations (in the comments to the calcs themselves) often turn out to be a rich discussion of the feat from all possible perspectives, much more interesting. When it comes to the thread themselves, yes it means they are resolved more easily by "stats". But what that means is you can have much more threads, giving you a bigger range of fictions to look at, and hopefully the more interesting ones will be the ones that stick.

I would like to say though, this I much more to the point of what we do and what people want to know than wong's lecture on SDN, which was what people previously were linked all the time here in relation to complaints about calcs and whatnot. Especially as the said post details the use of the argument that almost everyone in the fiction is an idiot, which is not used here and no-one has tried to introduce it."

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » tsuna vs renji

I gotta go with Tsuna, he is a bit more mobile and versatile, but I'm gonna wait for more form Renji.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Vash the Stampede vs Mista and Hol Horse

@SpeedForceSpider: Yeah but it only really helped him escape, the pages in the Stand don't come rapidly it comes at a certain pace hence why they needed to follow the crew around before attacking. The more dangerous ones came later in the story within his Stand and hol horse ended messing that one up. However you are correct so for that scenario I say its a draw or Hol Horse eventually wins.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Vash the Stampede vs Mista and Hol Horse

@Justalittlegirl: Vash threw some rocks at one point while sitting in a chair and deflected two gunman's bullets and made them hit each other (In non vital areas) and nobody except wolfwood even saw. Imagine what he can do with a quickdraw lol.

As for this battle, I give it do the Stand users

Vash can see the Stands

Round 1: Mista vs Vash: Mista Mid difficulty, a similar battle was done before but Sex Pistols are each capable of deflecting and blocking bullets as close range and can catch up with bullets the moment they are fired. Vash could have the best accuracy in the world but 6 supersonic+ pistols as a moving shields will be too much for Vash, while Mista fires at Vash Sex Pistols deflect every shot right back at him. The guy also took a barrage of bullets while he fought White Album and was still going and this was while being frozen by a guy who could go absolute zero.

Round 2: Hol Horse w/ J. Geil vs Vash: Hol Horse, medium difficulty, the fact that Vash can see his gun makes Hol Horses best element of attack dratically weaker (Given he is a assassin.) However with J.Geil at his side (Assuming they are fighting anywhere there is a reflection) prevents Vash from being able to do anything, Hol Horse's bullets would blow right through Vash's and he doesn't have to reload or even aim. If he does get hit J.geil can prevent a fatal blow. Hol Horse had reaction that allowed him to curve bullets away from his face that were fired point blank, just before that he made his bullet dodge a swing from Silver chariot.

Round 3: Hol Horse w/ Boingo vs Vash: Vash, High difficulty, Hol Horse sucks on his own, Vash gets heavily injured but he should be able to incapacitate Hol Horse by himself, Oingo is only useful if he has prep (At least 10 minuets) he can't take his advice on the fly like that. If he had prep he could win.

Round 4: Hol Horse and Mista vs Vash Unholy stomp in favor of the duo.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Byakuya Kuchiki (Post-Timeskip) vs Itachi (Prime)

@ALMIGHTY: Yeah but Bleach is notorious for characters who look impressive but really aren't. It appears they are both equal in speed

Itachi

Byakuya

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Byakuya Kuchiki (Post-Timeskip) vs Itachi (Prime)

@ALMIGHTY: Ah, that's right well going by cacls if I recall Itachi should be faster but Byakuya was calced to have town level stats while Itachi has multi city block to small city level with Susanoo. I say Itachi can win via genjutsu or sealing Byakuya.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Hinata Hyuga vs Rangiku Matsumoto

After all that debate on the other thread i thought I would take the liberty and make this thread so no more smack talking, guys, time to debate (You know who im talking to, lol)

Rules:

1. In character

2. Fighters start 5 meters away

3. no knowledge or prep

4. fight takes place in Karakura town (Fake)

VS

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Sanji vs Shunsui Kyaraku

Saw this on OBD

Two playboys going at it!

1. Bloodlusted

2. 5 meters away

3. Pre-timskip Kyoraku (He currently has no feats anyway.)

4. Timeskip sanji

5. Fight takes place in Albasta

VS

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Naruto vs Renji

@The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk said:

I think it's funny that Kubo decided that Renji's bankai was misinforming him this whole time...

Oh Kubo....

Renji gets murked in this fight though

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Byakuya Kuchiki (Post-Timeskip) vs Itachi (Prime)

Itachi, Byakuya can't get past Susanoo, Itachi activated that thing before lightning could strike him and that was while dying.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Perfect Cell vs Laharl (Disgaea)

@Saladking: Human world is just another dystopia, not a whole universe, we have seen human world before and there is even an episode called conqueror Earth ending in which you see Human world depicted as such. I also don't think all ending are canon, for example in Disgea Hour of darkness you can pick a different ending and ultimately Flonne's future however considering Flonne shows up as a Fallen Angel in both direct sequels (in addition to other games), the Good Ending is the one most people consider canon. Not every ending is canon hence, the True, good, and bad endings this is the same for most games. You could argue the Prinny games but since most of the later cameo appearances feature Fallen Angel Flonne and Overlord Laharl, I say Good ending is canon. Prinny game takes place in a "What if.." universe in the normal ending. So really there is only one canon ending.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Perfect Cell vs Laharl (Disgaea)

And believe me, guys, if you thought this battle was long then you have not seen any Final Fantasy vs Nipponverse threads, or .hack, now those go for pages...

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Perfect Cell vs Laharl (Disgaea)

@Saladking: I recently beat 3 and am currently playing 4. Aren't only 1 of the ending cannon? Even so that was evil Mao who charged up and exploded with anger, normally he is only galaxy level in both destructive ability and durability and honestly above Laharl IMO that or equal. Either way laharl did not stalemate the same Mao that blew up that area, he fought a good Mao who is drastically weaker. And about blowing up the universe it really dependings on how one interprets his bad ending it describes Evil Mao destroying the Netherworld, the Human world and Celestia--which all but Celestia being considered a planet in Disgaea, afterward, it noted that "everything" has disappeared, Disgaea cosmology dictates that those 3 aren't everything. So that could also be interpenetrated as multi-planet level, I'm going with the former of those. Laharl still wins, I don't think Cell can beat him but Buu and Battle of God level characters like Bills and SSG Goku can likely beat him as they should be galaxy level at that point.

Hell Bills was plainly stated to be able to destroy the solar system if they made him mad and Whis comments on the fact that if the main cast were to anger Bills further, he’d be liable to destroy the rest of the solar system, given he’s been the God of Destruction [a job that entails he destroy various planets to maintain order and balance across the universe] for what appears to be millenia, its rather likely the backstory has him doing just this at one point or another, thus Whis’ statement isn’t without basis.

@Kurohige: Cell loses but I can EASILY see why you would think he doesn't if we don't use any game mechanics at all then yeah he should win, or at least have a chance, after all Nipponverse is I believe the only verse in which gameplay mechanics are allowed, if not for that then yes Cell would have a chance. As for your proof, Laharl defeated Tyrant Baal (A Galaxy buster and whos energy ripples throughout space like most Overlord-class characters), also easily destroyed two million space battleships, characters weaker than him can star system and galaxy bust [like Darkdeath Evilman] If you want on-screen-storymode-only feats for Laharl doing such thing, well, plainly put: there are none. But it is widely accepted that he can do those things, much like your calcs (That I completely agree with btw.) are widely accepted on other forums and maybe here. Logically and based on how that series works, that is what he can do. now if we used anime only Laharl Cell wins, and maybe if we used cinematics only. However right now Cell loses low-mid difficulty.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Jojo runs the vampire gauntlet

@taichokage: Yeah that is true, or Josuke with matter manipulation, Vanila ice.

This battle has potential, I can see it working if you restrict Alucard's restriction releases, Buffy's omnipotence (Which I'm sure was a given), and re-arrange them. Because honestly some of these guys are worse than others. For example Kain is fine where he is at but Dracula as only number 2? Save omnipotent Buffy Dracula is way above anyone on that list. Personally i would put

1. Kain

2. Buffy (No omnipotence/ Certain arc)

3. Alucard (No restriction releases and pre-Schrodinger)

4. Vampire Hunter D

5. Dracula

They may not clear but they make it past the first 3. I would have also made it so that the sun would affect all the vampires ie instant death so that the sun coming up would have more meaning. Lastly when putting them up against beings like this, or anyone in a gauntlet like this, ALWAYS give them knowledge and prep, a Jojo's, especially Joseph's best weapon. Just my two cents because I can really see this fight working, or at least not being a stomp. I don't blame you too much as there are not a lot of vampires to pick form that are good for this fight and Jojo fights are universally unusual to place and often result in a stomp one way or the other, especially these two who only have the advantage in reaction time.

Post by Justice (767 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Battles » Marco & Ace Vs Doflamingo & Law

@luthluth: Lol, Marco himself fought on par with Kizaru, Doflamingo is not soling.

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