JonSmith (Level 7)

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Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » ASURA vs KRATOS

@MohsinMan99: Probably because either A) No ones taken notice of it yet, or B) Asura might as well be an anime character due to the immense style and nature of his game.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » ASURA vs KRATOS

@justanormalguy: Fair enough. But it seems in feats of strength/destructive power, we cannot reach a definitive conclusion. So how about this? Let us move on to feats of durability.

On Asura's durability, from the demo, as I said, we've got him being impaled through the stomach, through reentry from the moon, through the planet's core, and out again... Presumably. Or perhaps the sword itself just kept going through him and he stopped upon crashing into the planet. Either way, that is a pretty impressive feat, that Kratos would be hardpressed to match in damage output.

So what can you offer as a counterargument for Kratos's durability?

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » ASURA vs KRATOS

@justanormalguy: Hey, feats are feats. We can only go on what was displayed and follow it with natural, common, sense. So let's make a list:

IN THE BUDDHIST CORNER, STANDING AT "I'LL KILL YOU!" AND WEIGHING IN AT "YOU WILL DIE!", THE SIX ARMED GENERAL, ASURA!

Killed Wyzen, an individual larger than the entire Earth.

(I could post more, but I've only reached a few chapters after that in an early playthrough I'm watching, and any further would be spoilers.)

IN THE GREEK CORNER, STANDING AT "YOU WILL SUFFER FOR THIS!" AND WEIGHING IN AT "I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE!", THE MARKED WARRIOR, KRATOS!

Largest feat of size: Stopped being crushed by ATLAS, the Titan who holds up the World/Sky, depending on your personal preference. Atlas is around the size of a city.

In the size department.... Err... In the ENEMY SIZE... In the general circumference of opposition, Asura has the greater visible feat. Also has the durability feat where he was both impaled (which killed Kratos), THROUGH THE EARTH, via a sword through his stomach, the mantle, and the core of the planet. Pretty sure Kratos can't do much to harm someone like that. Also fairly certain that Asura CAN.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » ASURA vs KRATOS

@justanormalguy: I would like to point out that the first level of the game (I apologize for mild spoilers), has Asura and the other Seven Generals fighting creatures that are MUCH larger than Titans. Comparatively, it would stand to reason that they are just as durable, if not more so, going by their stony appearance. To use my limited grasp of physics/matter: In order to support themselves at that size, they would need to be durable/strong enough to handle their own weight. While this is a non issue in space, their mother (second spoiler, sorry) appears to originate inside Gaea, their version of Earth. As such, they would most likely have to come from there as well.

Thus, the nearly casual nature with which the Generals dispatch them would stand to reason that the Generals, Asura included, are MUCH stronger than the Titans via food chain logic. Thus, the Blade of Olympus, even running on assumptions, would have very little effect on Asura. Not to mention the fact that it could only barely dispatch Zeus in Kratos's hands. Even though Zeus displayed the ability to end the War with a single slash, Kratos has shown no such power. Quite the opposite in fact: He seems to have difficulty wielding the Blade for extended periods of time, and requires a charge up period for much smaller feats of power than the slash that ended the Great War.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » ASURA vs KRATOS

@justanormalguy: Ah, sorry. I edited my post right after I posted it to add somethings. I apologize for inconvenience. I didn't see your post at the time.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » ASURA vs KRATOS

@YouFinished: @justanormalguy: Could you both take into account that a fat man swinging a golden shield the size of his body that fires rockets transformed into giant SPACE BUDDHA and accept that basic laws of physics and nature PROBABLY don't apply here?

@justanormalguy said:

@JonSmith: Asura can destroy a planet? When?

Also, I think you are forgetting one key principle of physics.

Size =/= mass.

Just because God of War's gods are put in the same frame as Kratos, that doesn't constitute that they are weaker. They can increase in size if they want. Asura's Wrath plays on a much larger scale to try and make their world seem larger than life right off the bat, but that doesn't automatically mean they their gods would defeat God of War's gods. There are elements from Greek mythology that do play into God of War. It's not completely original.

Also, Kratos was the gods kryptonite, so to speak. His existence and accomplishments made the gods take defensive action against him. There was a reason Zeus did everything he could to try and stop Kratos, including draining Kratos' god powers into the Blade of Olympus(which single handedly won the gods their war against the Titans), and killing Kratos and sending him to the Underworld(which Kratos simply came back from, meaning he cheated his own death). Kratos was a force. Kratos is no slouch. Don't make him out to be one.

In regards to this: Zeus was motivated to do all of that out of Fear. Most likely, had he been in total control of his senses, he would not have taken such drastic measures. And if you wish to make the argument that 'Kratos was a force', I would like to respectfully disagree. Kratos's RAGE was a force. Kratos's RAGE gave him all that power. Before he struck a deal with Ares, he was nearly defeated by a mere Barbarian. Even afterwards, he showed no real displays of power until he was tricked into murdering his wife and child. After that, his rage made him a nigh unstoppable force.

Asura is in a similiar position: After similiar circumstances, his rage allowed him to keep coming back from Naraka, their version of the Underworld. Much the same as Kratos. The 'force' you wish to bring into this is Rage, plain and simple. It is not connected to a single character, but it IS the source of their power. Without it, Kratos would be nowhere near the powerhouse he is. Without it, Asura would be killed and wouldn't come back.

I'm not downplaying Kratos's accomplishments. I'm merely saying he displayed nothing to place his power on the same level as Asura has displayed. And to more directly address your concerns that the gods and titans power is moreso than Wyzen's, on the basis that Wyzen merely 'got real big', without increasing his strength proportionately... Where is the proof of this? Considering that neither of us ran up to Space Buddha Wyzen and tried to give him a planetary hug to determine his weight, we can't state that either way.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » ASURA vs KRATOS

@YouFinished: @justanormalguy: Eh, as a Greek mythology self entitled expert, I feel obligated to point out Atlas holds up the SKY, as Mr. Finished pointed out. That said, I'm fairly certain that that does NOT hold true in Kratos's universe. I think he holds up the Earth or something very similiar from the planes of Tartarus.

Regardless, Asura wins this. While their rage is evenly matched, their strength is on an entirely different level. Asura can effectively destroy planets, and equally sized foes. Kratos, while powerful, hasn't been shown doing anything near that scale. Put it this way: Every time Kratos boasted a feat of strength against a large foe, you could still SEE Kratos and the enemy in the same shot. Asura? Not so much. So Asura most likely wins this with relative ease.

You want a real challenge? Put these two in a drinking contest with each other.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Pan vs kid Goten

I'm going to go with Goten. He can go Super Saiyan. Pan can't. Is that a safe enough lock to end this thread?

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Luke Skywalker Vs Sasuke

... *sigh* I apologize if this is counts as trolling, but really? Between Wizardboy and Tronboy, I'm losing all remaining faith in the intelligence and common sense of human beings... At least insofar as judgements regarding the combat abilities of fictional characters goes.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Alexander Anderson vs The Cullen Family (Twilight)

I'm going to have to say Anderson wins either way. His regeneration and ruthlessness, not to mention his trained fighting skills as compared to the Cullen's lack thereof, would give him the edge in the first round. The second would be a joke. There is a reason all those comics of Alucard beating the hell out of Cullen NEVER display Cullen even having a ghost of a chance. And Anderson fought on par (almost) with Alucard. Food Chain Logic points to Andersons victory.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Lee, sai, temari vs shino, akura, neji

@Marco_Kidd: The only way I can see us ending this argument definitively is via displaying feats of speed between Neji and Lee. I don't know about you, but I have very little desire to go gather the necessary evidence for such an argument. As such, how about this: Lee manages to beat Neji. Neji does enough internal damage to Lee that he is unable to continue the fight, thus leaving it up to the other four combatants to decide the victory. Is that an acceptable assessment?

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Lee, sai, temari vs shino, akura, neji

@Marco_Kidd: Fair enough, I suppose. I still maintain that Shino's style of fighting, regardless of an added repertoire of moves within that style, would allow Lee to beat him. As for my statement that Lee's refusal to lose would let him beat Neji, I merely mean that Lee most likely wouldn't hold back in a fight against him, friend or not. He would most likely put all of his training and power into beating Neji, even the Gates. Not to mention the fact that Lee is not the type to stop training merely because he thinks he's matched his chosen opponent. What does Neji have that could specifically take down Lee? Lee's too fast for Neji to hit with his techniques. The Gentle Fist style focuses on light taps channeling a burst of chakra to close off chakra points. Lee's style focuses on overwhelming speed and force to break bones and smash the opponent into submission. As such, the Gentle Fist doesn't prioritize moving speed. Even though Neji can see in 360 degrees, he doesn't have the Sharingan, so he wouldn't even be able to see Lee, much less hit him. He could use that Eight Trigrams Palms Revolving Heaven technique to completely block Lee from getting near him, but once that drops Lee would hit him. Neji's main form of attack, the Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms, and it's higher compatriots, involve an increasing speed with each series of blows. Lee can go from zero to whatever his top speed is in allegedly a single step.

In short, his speed would give him the win. Shino faces the same problem, however he possesses a handicap in his favor: Lee would focus entirely on fighting Neji, most likely asking Shino and Sakura to stay out of it. Provided the two of them weren't preoccupied with Lee's enemies, Lee wouldn't lay a hand on Sakura, which would lead Sai and Temari to try and distract her once they realized that. Shino, however, as I've said, his style of fighting resembles Gaara's: Staying in one spot for the most part and letting his bugs attack via various jutsu. The timeskip would only increase the variety of moves WITHIN that style, it wouldn't change the style itself. At most he'd be a distraction for Lee, provided Lee's team wasn't distracting both Shino and Sakura. Once Lee finished with Neji, he'd lend his attention to Shino, provided he wasn't worn out. Had Shino not already been defeated by Sai or Temari, Lee should be able to dispatch him eventually. However, as I said, after that, victory goes to Lee's team if they can take down Sakura. Do you disagree?

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Lee, sai, temari vs shino, akura, neji

@Marco_Kidd: Neji trains pretty hard, yes, and as such he's pretty strong. But the entire point of Lee's training, more or less his reason for BEING, is to become strong enough to beat Neji and prove that hard work can overcome a genius. In a fight with Neji, Lee would refuse to lose. As for Neji becoming a Jounin, Mr. Feha is correct: Rank is no indication of skill or power. To give another example, Kakashi has stated that Naruto has surpassed him many times over, yet Naruto is still a genin. As for Shino, he's got nothing that can keep up or knock down Lee. His bugs aren't fast enough. Shino's usual strategy for fighting is to stand in one spot and use his bugs to defend and attack. Sound familiar? It should: That's more or less Gaara's strategy as well, substituting bugs for sand. The only thing that saved Gaara from Lee pre-timeskip was Lee's lack of endurance. If he had been able to continue using the Gates, or use more, he most likely would have won. Now that Lee possesses that endurance, and Shino lacks the crushing tactics of Gaara, Shino wouldn't be much of a threat.

Is that sufficient justification for my impression that Lee could dispatch Neji and Shino?

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Lee, sai, temari vs shino, akura, neji

Lee can't solo this because of morals and Sakura. However, he CAN dispatch Neji and Shino. Shino isn't really a threat as far as I can tell to Lee, since his chakra eating bugs shouldn't bother Lee. The trick will be whether or not Sakura can win a handicap one on two match. Since Sai and Temari both specialize in long range jutsu, as opposed to Sakura's monstrous strength, they should be able to take her down with a little effort. So Lee's team wins.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

General Discussion » Do you like Pink and Blue couples?

'Passionate and loving'... Right below the picture of a pink haired young lady beating the hell out of a naked guy. Thanks for making my day so early in the morning.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Wonderweiss vs. Ace and Mustang

I'm going to say that Ace may manage to win this. Wonderweiss doesn't have any way to hit him as far as I know. And I'm fairly certain it was only stated that Wonderweiss could absorb Yamamoto's flames. No indication if he can absorb others. As for Roy? Wonderweiss drops as soon as he realizes what's going on. Which there really is no indication that he would. He may just start chasing the two to play, due to his mentally deficient mind. Even while they're attacking him, he may not even realize what's going on. Even if he did, he'd still have no way to hit Ace.

And in answer to the inevitable: "Would Ace or Roy even be able to see Wonderweiss?", since you didn't state whether or not Wonderweiss would have the usual invisible spirit effect, once Ace realized that things were getting smashed, he'd most likely start blasting everything around til he hit something.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » The Akatsuki Vs. Batman

@Destinyheroknight: Actually, just checked on Wikipedia: Turns out the ring that was supposed to be for Batman left when it was rejected and sought out a new host. The son of Abin Sur, ironically enough. So no power ring for Bats. I probably should have checked that beforehand, but I'm still pretty new at this.

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Yamamoto (shikai allowed) vs. Blackbeard (both devil fruits)

@justanormalguy: Excuse me if I'm wrong, but doesn't them being bloodlusted, by nature, mean that they're ALREADY out of character? So what's it matter?

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » The Akatsuki Vs. Batman

@sceonn: While that's true, Pain would still be caught in the blast of the bomb, even with his largest Push. Likewise, Tobi can only phase for ten minutes or so, at which point he'd be killed by radiation. If he tried to absorb it or teleport away, he'd be vulnerable while he did so, exactly the kind of thing Batman specializes in capitalizing on.

So I guess it kinda comes down to whether or not a nuke counts as prep? I can see both sides of the argument for and against Batman. The deciding factor, I think, is the exact parameter's of preparation. Then again, the OP DID stipulate that the battle takes place in an empty Gotham. So most likely Batman would be caught in the blast of a nuke and killed. Though knowing Batman, he has the best bomb shelter ever. Again, the circumstances are what decides the battle. Do they all start the battle a certain distance away from each other, or do they just start IN the city? If the former, Batman would be caught in a nuke, and he'd be in range of all of their attacks before the nuke went off. If the latter, it's entirely possible for Batman to just hide out in his Bat-Shelter while nuking Gotham and winning the battle. Provided Tobi doesn't have time to just absorb everyone and himself into his own dimension, then teleport into the Batshelter with Batman. And in order to stop that, Batman would have to intervene directly. Meaning he'd be caught in the nuke.

Ugh, this is just going back and forth. I'm going to say Batman loses this, even with a nuke. Tobi could probably get himself and the others away. In order to be fast enough to stop him, Batman would have to be personally there. Even then, it's unlikely: The other Akatsuki would hold him off to save their own hides. With Itachi's Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Susanoo, along with the Six Paths of Pain, Hidan's immortality, etc, Batman wouldn't be able to reach Tobi if he had set off a nuke. Without such a direct source of termination, his chances of victory are very low. While Batman may have a plan to take on everyone in his universe, as stated above, the abilities of pretty much everyone in manga are so much more varied than those of comics that it's kinda crazy by comparison. In his universe, most people have variations of super strength, speed, durability, flight, energy projection, etc. While there are a lot of people with abilities other than that, those are the mainstays of the DC Universe. Just among the Akatsuki, there is much more variety, with no specific weaknesses per say. As such, Batman has a lot more to deal with than usual. And with only a day of prep, even IF he can launch a nuke, the varied skill sets and powers combine to make a battle Batman probably can't win. Any objections?

Post by JonSmith (185 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » The Akatsuki Vs. Batman

@Destinyheroknight: It was my assumption that this was base Batman, no superpowers, just his usual skillset and gadgets. Though whose to say he doesn't keep a ring in his utility belt, I suppose?

@rein: I kinda also assumed that Batman would be fighting them personally, alone, just with whatever preparations/gadgets he had made in that one day. As in hand to hand combat. If we're going to go with a situation such as you described above, Mr. Rein, then yes, Batman most likely wins.

However, I still hold to the opinion that in hand to hand combat against all of the Akatsuki at once, Batman would still lose to their superior abilities.

If he can just sit on the bat-sofa (which is an amusing idea, kudos, Mr. Rein) and call in someone with more power to take care of them, or drop a nuke on their heads, then it is highly unlikely Akatsuki would win. So to summarize: Hand to hand combat, aka, if Batman treats them like normal supervillains, and just tries to kill them with that, he's screwed. If he utilizes his resources to try and completely terminate them, then Akatsuki's screwed. Any objections to the possible accuracy of this statement?

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