Imperator100 (Level 15)

@DBZ_universe Thank You.

@debeze I wasen't saying the Dragon couldn't give them immortality i was starting that, being stronger then the Dragon, the Pokemon could likely counteract his power with their own reality-warping.

As for Goku's destructive capacity, here's how I think of it. Let's say to destroy the Moon all you need is a power level of 100 (which fits with Roshi's feat even though that is usually considered a high-end outlier.

The Approximate Joules needed to destroy The Moon, The Earth, and the Sun:

The Moon: 1 X 10^29

The Earth: 2 X 10^32

The Sun 7 X 10^41

Thus is the power level to destroy the Moon was 100 the power level needed to destroy the Earth would be 100 X 2 X 10^3 which is 200,000 (which also demonstrates how Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga who was at 18,000 destroying the Earth would have been ludicrious however it does work with Frieza being a planetbuster since his first form was at 530,000.) If destroying the Earth requires a powerlevel of 200,000 then destroying the Sun requires a power level of 200,000 X 7 X 10^9 which is 700 Hundred Quadrillion or 700,000,000,000,000,000. Unless you think Cell had a powerlevel that high...

For the record The Sun is a rather small Star. The Average neutron star has a GBE of 5 X 10^46 which would give you a powerlevel of 5 Quintillion of 5,000,000,000,000,000,000 to destroy it.

Let's compare Goku's Power Level Progress to contrast. At the start of DB he had a power level of 10. By the end he was around 400. This is a multiplication of X 40. At the start of the Saiyan Saga he was at 400 and at the end he was at 8,000 which is a multiplier of 20. At the start of the Namek saga he was at 8,000 and at the end he was at 3,000,000 (50X his powerlevel was 150,000,000) which is a multiplier of 375 (granted he numerous Zenkai in this arc). Even if we use a multiplier of 1,000 for each of the last two arcs, which is absurd, we would get an end of Cell Saga at 3,000,000,000 and an end of the Buu Saga at 3,000,000,000,000 which if we add in the 400 X SSJMultipliers (50X2X4) we get 1.2 Quadrillion or 1,200,000,000,000,00 which is about 0.17 percent that the power level needed to destroy the Sun.

And yes we do know that Power Levels scale lineraly because Goku's Kaioken X 2 againt Vegeta multiplied his power by 2 (as stated by the Narrator) and it also doubled his power level.

@debeze

Goku can still be "just" a planetbuster if Frieza was too. Planets are of different masses. The strongest "planetbuster" would be able to produce roughly 100,000,000 X the amount of joules that the weakest "planetbuster" would be able too.

How is it not PIS when he survived being surround by celestial objects whose gravity would destroy the Earth while sleeping?

The Elder Dragon is limited against those whom are more powerful then he. Otherwise they could have just wished Cell/Buu away. And even if that was the case they would still have to make the wish before they were frozen in time and considering they are bloodlusted it's unlikely they would/

@Frieza said:

@Imperator100 said:

By insulting the OBD in this way you make it more credible in my eyes.

Then why are you here?

Just because I find it more credible does not mean I find it as credible as, say, Anime Vice.

@Frieza You realize there are only 2 people arguing that the Dragon Trio would win debating against more people? Truely this is an example of the group suppressing the individual with their diabolic tools of "logic" and "rationality"

By insulting the OBD in this way you make it more credible in my eyes.

Dust

@debeze I kinda doubt it takes a few minutes for the abstract concept of time to freeze time. Unless they start right next to each other Goku's hypersonic speed is going to be fast enough.

@Masterofdeath I tried looking up the canonicity of Pokemon, although it's kinda weird in that not only are all the types of a media seperate canon (which is normal) but each one apparently has equal canonicity. There is three Pokemon "canons" The Manga, The Anime, and The Games (The Movies are considered part of the Anime canon.) Each version of the Dragon Trio has equivlent feats so it dosen't make that much of a difference although the outlier Meteor feat is only present in the Anime Canon. Anyway as the OP you are provided by the rules to pick whichever canonicity you want so ... yeah

Information about Pokemon canonicity: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Canon

So if we use the Manga version (since you took away the Game Canon and the Movie (Anime) Canon) uh... give me some time to look for Arceus manga feats on the web.

@Masterofdeath It's always only canon unless specifically stated otehrwise. You have to say what is available or it defaults to canon material.

@othus12 Movie's not canon. Looked up the feat and apparently (from what I have read) Arceus is distratcted by attacks from Dialgia and Palkia and Pikachu gets a thunderbolt hit it. Arceus barely notices it.

@Masterofdeath Non-Canon and even if was it dosen't have any good feats.

@othus12 As I said I know barely anything about the Pokemon franchise. When did Pikachu's lightning ever bother Arceus?

@othus12 I didn't mean being in empty space, I meant being in th presence of celestial objects like those in the galaxies thatArceus had all around him while sleeping him. And Canoncity has nothing to do with being an outlier. It quite clearly it absurb that a character who could survive in the presence of a star (like the billions that would be in a galaxy circling Arceus) would be beaten by a meteor considering that most stars can crush planets with sheer gravity.

@Frieza But he does have a durability feat outside that. See above comment to othus12

@Masterofdeath See above comments.

@Frieza I don't use it personally, and people really shouldn't. It's an outlier and besides that it's from the anime and non-canon. Likewise a meteor harming Arceus was an outlier and shouldn't be considered.0

@debeze What assumption am I making that can't be proven with simple science. Being in Space puts a giant amoutn fo pressure on the body, far mroe pressure then a meteor. The two feats contradict each other and Arceus having above meteor-like durability is more consistent with his other, universal scale feats and thus the meteor feat should be considered an outlier.

@Frieza I don't think you quite grasp the concept of "outlier" It'd be like saying Goku can oly lift 40 tons in base due to the fact that he could'nt lift 40 tons in Based in the Buu Saga despite the fact that tht makes no sense. Arceus has survived in the depths of space and since he was there before the unvierse he also survived the energy of the Big Bang he made. The meteor feat was just an outlier and shouldn't be counted any more then the 40 tons feat.

@Masterofdeath It's perfectly reasonable to ask people to stay on the subject that the thread was created for.

@DBZ_universe How? How can the saiyans damage the Dragon Trio when their true forms are intangible? The Saiyans have never shown the ability to attack non-corporeal beings before.

@Masterofdeath They would still be intangible so it likely wouldn't matter to them anyway. Besides that the dragon balls take too long to use and the Pokemon are likely to freeze them in time or expode them with the energy of a big bang while they are activating it. Besides that even if the saiyans wished for immortality they could still be frozen in time and crushed using spacial manipulation which would reduce them to atoms. They would still be alive but I am assuming that would count as a victory for the Pokemon, even if not I still don't see why they are going to wish for immortality if they are bloodlusted.

@hitsusatsu11 First of all just because it was stated that Buu could destroy the universe dosen't mean he can launch a unvierse buster. Nothing greater then a planetbuster has ever been seen in the DBZ Manga. Statements are not proof unto themselves, especially if contradicted by logic. And no, as shown Palkia and Dialgia can create a universe with hundreds of galaxies and Arceus is stronger then both. Also their destructive capacity is superior then their creation feats because creating a universe inside another universe would neccesarily destroy the first one due to the energy output of a big bang. Also without CIS they would fight in their true forms which are intangible so it really dosen't matter what speed the saiyans are at.

Likely Scenario: Both sides spawn. The Saiyans go Super Saiyan and the Pokemon go into their true forms. The Saiyans use their greater speed to attack them, however their attacks go through the intangible bodies of the Pokemon. Either Dialgia or Arceus freezes the Saiyans in time (imagine Guldo's ability to freeze people in time but with an unlimited timespan.) Then any of the three of them create a new universe in the local area, generating the energy of a big bang which destroys the saiyans and the Pokemon likely survives just through the fact that they are intangible or if that would fail they enter into their individual pocket universes.

@UltimateHero0406 I thought bloodlusted just meant they were going full-out?

Anyway besides that while they fight with their physical forms in the movie that dosen't mean that if their physical forms were destroyed then they would cease to exist. Even if you destroyed their physical forms their true form would still be there and would just conjure up another one.

@UltimateHero0406 Bloodlusted.

How is the thread still going? This is three cosmic cube level beings versus three low herald level beings.

@hitsusatsu11

@UltimateHero0406

How are the Saiyans going to harm the Pokemon. Their true forms are intangible:

and have a universal level range which means they will be able to use their hax and universal-level powers to win.