GrayWolf2 (Level 7)

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Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Mystic Gohan Vs Ichiryuu, Jirou, Midora, Joa, Starjun

Wasn't there a new handbook that came out not too long ago that states Cell's statement wasn't a bluff? If so there isn't much point in arguing about it anymore. @DBZ_universe: While you are right about two energy beams of solar level power colliding and wrecking the earth you may be missing an important fact: it's a comic. More importantly it's an Akira Toriyama manga. The guy is well know for taking a playful lighthearted approach to what he does. Using scientific facts to debunk certain things in a universe where the moon can be taken away from the planet for years and there not be global catastrophe isn't the best approach. Let's face it the guy thought about making Bills the dark god responsible for turning the saiyans evil but thought that was too dark for Dragonball. That shows you how he wants this manga to be. Really macho, but still lighthearted and fun. It leads to some inconsistencies but it works.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Hiei vs Ulquiorra

Hmm, how many times is Hiei gonna cut off Ulquiorra's limbs before he finally Dragon of the Darkness Flame's his ass to the next world?

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

General Discussion » Your top 10 fictional characters

Alright, didn't see that comic characters are allowed too. New list.

  1. Batman
  2. Kenshin Himura
  3. Son Goku
  4. Solid Snake
  5. Superman
  6. The Joker
  7. Freeza
  8. Hajime Saito
  9. Superboy Prime
  10. Younger Toguro
Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

General Discussion » Your top 10 fictional characters

  1. Kenshin Himura
  2. Son Goku
  3. Solid Snake
  4. Freeza
  5. Hajime Saito
  6. Younger Toguro
  7. Kenpachi Zaraki(could move up)
  8. Kratos
  9. Kyuzo
  10. Dart(Legend of Dragoon)
Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Who could beat Hulk?

Sigh, I've been watching this cute little debate go on for a while and the hulk is the hulk I really don't care to get into that much but as for the Freeza thing: @Whats_out_the_bag: When you are challenging the popular consensus on a fact just throwing out a random what if with no evidence to back it up doesn't give you anything to argue with. You're telling people that King Cold rescued Freeza before Namek exploded my question is this: Where is your evidence? To think this you have to believe King Cold got to Freeza immediately after the battle, put him in the ship, and got away in time without either Goku or King Kai sensing he was there. Which of course contradicts how powerful King Cold was shown to be later when his and Freeza's power could be sensed well before they even got to earth. Putting out a possibility that raises a lot of questions and contradicts certain things in the material cannot be done unless you have evidence to back this up. It is not really up to anyone else to provide you a scan of Freeza tanking Namek's explosion it is up to you to show he didn't. Since King Kai didn't sense Freeza anymore it shows he was unconscious so he wasn't flying off Namek himself. The anime showed him in the planet when it blew up and this doesn't contradict the manga either. I don't know what you are trying to do here. Throwing out a questionable statement without evidence is not how anyone should debate.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » LSSJ Broly Vs World Breaker Red-She Hulk Dark Dimension

@DBZ_universe said:

@GrayWolf2 said:

And another hulk vs Broly battle ends the same way it always does.

By BROLY SMASH! lol

Pretty much, yeah.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » LSSJ Broly Vs World Breaker Red-She Hulk Dark Dimension

And another hulk vs Broly battle ends the same way it always does.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@niBBit: You may want to watch the Baby episode with the Japanese dubs on. It clearly states he was trying to blow up the earth in that blast but failed. Then later on they think he can do it when he is right on top of a planet. Great, so Baby Oozaru can only maybe blow up a planet as long as he doesn't have to worry about his blast connecting with the atmosphere. Lame. Yi Xing Long is only at planet busting. If he could go higher than that with a blast they would've shown it or stated it at least. But planet busting was the most he was stated to be able to do. Sure his magical negative energy could kill the galaxy eventually but that doesn't really help.

I see part 3 of my second post was ignored. Only by thinking power scaling extends to a non-canon source do you get that Vegetto and SSJ4 Goku are about the same. I spent enough time watching the dragonball movies to know that is false.They follow their own thing. As such I believe GT follows its own and so the only feats I can take for granted are what it displayed. If I use power scaling for non canon parts then it must extend back to the canon and so I could use movie or anime filler feats for canon dragonball characters. You see where the problem is with this? Basically I don't have to use power scaling with GT as it relates to the canon. I only really did it to humor people who are really into it. GT is an alternate universe, as far as it says and showed it can go is as far as I believe it can go.

One more thing: Birusu was stated by his superior to be able to destroy solar systems instantaneously and there was talk of galaxy busting. His job is destroying stars and planets. That's higher than GT right there. His speed is also higher than anything I recall in GT. If I have to go further I may but I'm done for now. I hope this at least showed you where I stand with GT. If you don't like it fine, to each their own.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Raditz vs 100% Arc

Piccolo didn't start training until after Gohan went Oozaru so Raditz should be a casual moon buster. Still, given what I've heard about this other character she should still win.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@eddz99 said:

@GrayWolf2 said:

@niBBit: Power scaling is fun and all but it doesn't really help here. A lot of people agree that Super Saiyan Vegetto and SSJ 4 Goku through power scaling are roughly the same. However Fusion between Goku and Vegeta during Battle of the Gods didn't happen despite being allowed a lot of time which indicates to me that it would have been useless. This to me means SSJ God Goku >SSJ Vegetto/SSJ4 Goku. Meanwhile Birusu is still able to take down SSJG Goku comfortably with power to spare so that would put Birusu>SSJG Goku>SSJ4 Goku. Through scaling he is around Yi Xing Long's level and through feats and statements of his power(FTL speeds,casual solar system buster possibly even Galaxy level) he takes it. Simple as that.

So many wrong statements e.e

1. SSJ Vegetto is not equal to shadow dragons saga SSJ 4 Goku, but ssj2 vegetto is ( by powerscaling )

2. There are no potara earrings anymore and Vegitto >> Gogeta

3. Birisu did not beat goku comfortably, he tried to bust the planet after the fight yet he only busted a rock.

1. No potara earrings doesn't mean squat. They could still fuse to become Gogeta and go to ssj2 or ssj3 and yet didn't. Also Vegetto is only at best slightly more powerful than Gogeta. There really isn't much evidence to suggest he's a lot stronger.

2. Birusu only used 70% of his power to beat SSJG Goku. While 30% doesn't sound like much it really is. Goku when he turned Super Saiyan was only 20% stronger than Freeza. This difference however was huge as Goku held back and still thrashed him. Then later on when Freeza fought a super saiyan who didn't hold back he was killed almost instantaneously. There's a reason why Birusu called Super Saiyan God overrated and it is that he most likely would have beaten him nearly immediately if he wasn't holding back. Goku getting him to use up his power was either dumb luck or the result of Birusu waking up early. Had he gone all out Goku would not have had a chance.

3. Even using power scaling for GT is difficult since it would take Golden Oozaru Baby multiple blasts to destroy the earth and the most power Yi Xing Long was stated to have even attempted in battle was maybe planet busting. Compared to a FTL casual solar system buster these guys are cupcakes. Power scaling works well when you at least have the feeling that the later characters can match what happend before but with GT I never got that feeling because every time they tried they failed miserably.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@niBBit: Power scaling is fun and all but it doesn't really help here. A lot of people agree that Super Saiyan Vegetto and SSJ 4 Goku through power scaling are roughly the same. However Fusion between Goku and Vegeta during Battle of the Gods didn't happen despite being allowed a lot of time which indicates to me that it would have been useless. This to me means SSJ God Goku >SSJ Vegetto/SSJ4 Goku. Meanwhile Birusu is still able to take down SSJG Goku comfortably with power to spare so that would put Birusu>SSJG Goku>SSJ4 Goku. Through scaling he is around Yi Xing Long's level and through feats and statements of his power(FTL speeds,casual solar system buster possibly even Galaxy level) he takes it. Simple as that.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@niBBit said:

@GrayWolf2 said:

@niBBit: Bisuru wins by being superior in every way to this failed alternate dragonball universe character.

How is he superior than Omega Shenron?

Speed, Durability,H2H combat ability, Destructive Capacity, Likeability, Far more swag, Actually being Canon the list is numerous.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@niBBit: Bisuru wins by being superior in every way to this failed alternate dragonball universe character.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

Birusu already won this when he was created. Thanks to him we no longer have to pay attention to this crap.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Android 17 vs. Metal Cooler.

@alternative_backup: I understand but if it was me the only stipulation I would do is no army of Metal Coolers. Take that away and it is still an interesting fight even with the regen and increasing durability. He did after all find a way to lose to two super saiyans even though he was dominating them. Also I don't think the Androids start off using full power so his first power-up shouldn't be a game changer.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Android 17 vs. Metal Cooler.

What's the point of even using Meta Cooler if you're gonna take away the things that make him more dangerous than he was before? Anyway, I see 17 finding a way to win even though with Cooler's mastery over instantaneous movement it'll be a real pain for him to even hit him. Honestly I think if it wasn't for a little PIS neither Goku or Vegeta should've been able to with him being a lot better than Goku at it.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Vegeta

@Son_Wukong: Your part about Buutenks deflecting Gohan's attack is a good one for DBZ striking power. The number of times powerful energy blasts have been deflected by simple punches,kicks, and in some rare cases by just someone blowing on them is numerous.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Nappa

@othus12: I don't know if I'd say it pales in comparison. If their strikes carried so little power then how do they hurt each other with them? And if they hurt then how come everybody isn't incinerated every time they take on an energy blast? To me their usual striking power reflects what their power level is. It's just more concentrated. Now, saying that I have to come up with reason for the energy blasts and that is to increase the overall power. When Goku fought Raditz his powerlevel was in the low 400's and his kamehameha was around 1,000. Raditz of course neutralized it with one hand. Later Gohan raged and hit 1,300 in power. He then did a flying headbutt with only that power and it severely injured Raditz. It wasn't a blast, just a focused strike. Had it been a blast it would have had probably over 2,000 in power and it would have been bye bye Raditz. What I'm getting at is essentially Goku would hit with a power of 400 but his blasts would have 2-3 times more power usually. He can of course concentrate all of his power in a single strike but that's not exactly the norm. So, do his strikes have the same power as his blasts, not usually, but I wouldn't say they're not really close.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Sensui VS Frieza

There are only two characters in Yu Yu Hakusho that I can think of that can even hurt Freeza. And that's only because of their dimensional cutting abilities. Even still they'd be dead before they even knew Freeza had moved.

Post by GrayWolf2 (354 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Nappa

@othus12 said:

@GrayWolf2: dragon ball is made up of inconsistency. i like to go only with the official numbers they give us rather than making calcs myself. i think that's a way of understanding what toriyama is trying exactly to tell us. this also applies to goku's 40 ton feat. maybe he has shown more but 40 tons is what toriyama thinks gokus strenght is at. and to me that is what matters. suddenly because of making the calcs ourselves we tend to overestimate characters (suddenly guys pop up saying some naruto characters are massively hypersonic due to this errors)

Perhaps so but when it comes to Dragonball nearly everything is based off of our own calcs sadly. We say stuff like they're the speed of sound, or hypersonic, massively hypersonic, sub-light, speed of light or faster when we don't even have a confirmation of them being the speed of sound. The only number we have on Snake Way is it's a million kilometers long. Does this mean that the loops take away from that? Maybe. But I don't recall any real confirmation of that in the manga. It's just an assumption. Goku lifting 40 tons is about the only one I can think of that works. But even then assuming that Goku can only hit like a 40 tonner is wrong since he strikes with his ki. So the only stat that has a perfectly legit real number to it that can't be disputed much is essentially useless. Dragonball can be a real pain sometimes.

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