GrayWolf2 (Level 7)

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Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@niBBit: You may want to watch the Baby episode with the Japanese dubs on. It clearly states he was trying to blow up the earth in that blast but failed. Then later on they think he can do it when he is right on top of a planet. Great, so Baby Oozaru can only maybe blow up a planet as long as he doesn't have to worry about his blast connecting with the atmosphere. Lame. Yi Xing Long is only at planet busting. If he could go higher than that with a blast they would've shown it or stated it at least. But planet busting was the most he was stated to be able to do. Sure his magical negative energy could kill the galaxy eventually but that doesn't really help.

I see part 3 of my second post was ignored. Only by thinking power scaling extends to a non-canon source do you get that Vegetto and SSJ4 Goku are about the same. I spent enough time watching the dragonball movies to know that is false.They follow their own thing. As such I believe GT follows its own and so the only feats I can take for granted are what it displayed. If I use power scaling for non canon parts then it must extend back to the canon and so I could use movie or anime filler feats for canon dragonball characters. You see where the problem is with this? Basically I don't have to use power scaling with GT as it relates to the canon. I only really did it to humor people who are really into it. GT is an alternate universe, as far as it says and showed it can go is as far as I believe it can go.

One more thing: Birusu was stated by his superior to be able to destroy solar systems instantaneously and there was talk of galaxy busting. His job is destroying stars and planets. That's higher than GT right there. His speed is also higher than anything I recall in GT. If I have to go further I may but I'm done for now. I hope this at least showed you where I stand with GT. If you don't like it fine, to each their own.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Raditz vs 100% Arc

Piccolo didn't start training until after Gohan went Oozaru so Raditz should be a casual moon buster. Still, given what I've heard about this other character she should still win.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@eddz99 said:

@GrayWolf2 said:

@niBBit: Power scaling is fun and all but it doesn't really help here. A lot of people agree that Super Saiyan Vegetto and SSJ 4 Goku through power scaling are roughly the same. However Fusion between Goku and Vegeta during Battle of the Gods didn't happen despite being allowed a lot of time which indicates to me that it would have been useless. This to me means SSJ God Goku >SSJ Vegetto/SSJ4 Goku. Meanwhile Birusu is still able to take down SSJG Goku comfortably with power to spare so that would put Birusu>SSJG Goku>SSJ4 Goku. Through scaling he is around Yi Xing Long's level and through feats and statements of his power(FTL speeds,casual solar system buster possibly even Galaxy level) he takes it. Simple as that.

So many wrong statements e.e

1. SSJ Vegetto is not equal to shadow dragons saga SSJ 4 Goku, but ssj2 vegetto is ( by powerscaling )

2. There are no potara earrings anymore and Vegitto >> Gogeta

3. Birisu did not beat goku comfortably, he tried to bust the planet after the fight yet he only busted a rock.

1. No potara earrings doesn't mean squat. They could still fuse to become Gogeta and go to ssj2 or ssj3 and yet didn't. Also Vegetto is only at best slightly more powerful than Gogeta. There really isn't much evidence to suggest he's a lot stronger.

2. Birusu only used 70% of his power to beat SSJG Goku. While 30% doesn't sound like much it really is. Goku when he turned Super Saiyan was only 20% stronger than Freeza. This difference however was huge as Goku held back and still thrashed him. Then later on when Freeza fought a super saiyan who didn't hold back he was killed almost instantaneously. There's a reason why Birusu called Super Saiyan God overrated and it is that he most likely would have beaten him nearly immediately if he wasn't holding back. Goku getting him to use up his power was either dumb luck or the result of Birusu waking up early. Had he gone all out Goku would not have had a chance.

3. Even using power scaling for GT is difficult since it would take Golden Oozaru Baby multiple blasts to destroy the earth and the most power Yi Xing Long was stated to have even attempted in battle was maybe planet busting. Compared to a FTL casual solar system buster these guys are cupcakes. Power scaling works well when you at least have the feeling that the later characters can match what happend before but with GT I never got that feeling because every time they tried they failed miserably.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@niBBit: Power scaling is fun and all but it doesn't really help here. A lot of people agree that Super Saiyan Vegetto and SSJ 4 Goku through power scaling are roughly the same. However Fusion between Goku and Vegeta during Battle of the Gods didn't happen despite being allowed a lot of time which indicates to me that it would have been useless. This to me means SSJ God Goku >SSJ Vegetto/SSJ4 Goku. Meanwhile Birusu is still able to take down SSJG Goku comfortably with power to spare so that would put Birusu>SSJG Goku>SSJ4 Goku. Through scaling he is around Yi Xing Long's level and through feats and statements of his power(FTL speeds,casual solar system buster possibly even Galaxy level) he takes it. Simple as that.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@niBBit said:

@GrayWolf2 said:

@niBBit: Bisuru wins by being superior in every way to this failed alternate dragonball universe character.

How is he superior than Omega Shenron?

Speed, Durability,H2H combat ability, Destructive Capacity, Likeability, Far more swag, Actually being Canon the list is numerous.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

@niBBit: Bisuru wins by being superior in every way to this failed alternate dragonball universe character.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Bills vs. Yi Xing Long

Birusu already won this when he was created. Thanks to him we no longer have to pay attention to this crap.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Android 17 vs. Metal Cooler.

@alternative_backup: I understand but if it was me the only stipulation I would do is no army of Metal Coolers. Take that away and it is still an interesting fight even with the regen and increasing durability. He did after all find a way to lose to two super saiyans even though he was dominating them. Also I don't think the Androids start off using full power so his first power-up shouldn't be a game changer.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Android 17 vs. Metal Cooler.

What's the point of even using Meta Cooler if you're gonna take away the things that make him more dangerous than he was before? Anyway, I see 17 finding a way to win even though with Cooler's mastery over instantaneous movement it'll be a real pain for him to even hit him. Honestly I think if it wasn't for a little PIS neither Goku or Vegeta should've been able to with him being a lot better than Goku at it.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Vegeta

@Son_Wukong: Your part about Buutenks deflecting Gohan's attack is a good one for DBZ striking power. The number of times powerful energy blasts have been deflected by simple punches,kicks, and in some rare cases by just someone blowing on them is numerous.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Nappa

@othus12: I don't know if I'd say it pales in comparison. If their strikes carried so little power then how do they hurt each other with them? And if they hurt then how come everybody isn't incinerated every time they take on an energy blast? To me their usual striking power reflects what their power level is. It's just more concentrated. Now, saying that I have to come up with reason for the energy blasts and that is to increase the overall power. When Goku fought Raditz his powerlevel was in the low 400's and his kamehameha was around 1,000. Raditz of course neutralized it with one hand. Later Gohan raged and hit 1,300 in power. He then did a flying headbutt with only that power and it severely injured Raditz. It wasn't a blast, just a focused strike. Had it been a blast it would have had probably over 2,000 in power and it would have been bye bye Raditz. What I'm getting at is essentially Goku would hit with a power of 400 but his blasts would have 2-3 times more power usually. He can of course concentrate all of his power in a single strike but that's not exactly the norm. So, do his strikes have the same power as his blasts, not usually, but I wouldn't say they're not really close.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Sensui VS Frieza

There are only two characters in Yu Yu Hakusho that I can think of that can even hurt Freeza. And that's only because of their dimensional cutting abilities. Even still they'd be dead before they even knew Freeza had moved.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Nappa

@othus12 said:

@GrayWolf2: dragon ball is made up of inconsistency. i like to go only with the official numbers they give us rather than making calcs myself. i think that's a way of understanding what toriyama is trying exactly to tell us. this also applies to goku's 40 ton feat. maybe he has shown more but 40 tons is what toriyama thinks gokus strenght is at. and to me that is what matters. suddenly because of making the calcs ourselves we tend to overestimate characters (suddenly guys pop up saying some naruto characters are massively hypersonic due to this errors)

Perhaps so but when it comes to Dragonball nearly everything is based off of our own calcs sadly. We say stuff like they're the speed of sound, or hypersonic, massively hypersonic, sub-light, speed of light or faster when we don't even have a confirmation of them being the speed of sound. The only number we have on Snake Way is it's a million kilometers long. Does this mean that the loops take away from that? Maybe. But I don't recall any real confirmation of that in the manga. It's just an assumption. Goku lifting 40 tons is about the only one I can think of that works. But even then assuming that Goku can only hit like a 40 tonner is wrong since he strikes with his ki. So the only stat that has a perfectly legit real number to it that can't be disputed much is essentially useless. Dragonball can be a real pain sometimes.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Sensui VS Frieza

Kinda disappointed really. With all the yyh wank that's been going on I was expecting a Yusuke or Sensui vs Broly thread.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Nappa

@othus12: Glad we could get to an understanding on that. Saying that let's move on. In all likelihood Toriko is a lot faster than Nappa. That is not really a question. What you said about Snake Way may or may not be true but here's the problem with Snake Way: It seems to nerf the usual speed of the characters. I didn't think this before honestly yesterday but when I looked up all these distances and started to calculate how fast the characters in Saiyan Saga were moving using Snake Way as a speed feat measuring device doesn't really work. Raditz traveled over 12,000 kilometers in only a few minutes like twice. Even if we say it took him 15 minutes to do so that's still a speed of over 48,000 kilometers per hour. I don't feel like calculating that in terms of Mach speed but it's a lot faster than the Mach 2-3 that I always used to think he was. Then we got Vegeta and Nappa who went from East city to where Gohan and Piccolo were in about the same time. Looking on the map that's a lot further than what Raditz did. They actually were probably quicker about it now that I think about it. When you get to Namek Vegeta, Gohan, and Krillin were flying around at Mach 100+ despite only having powerlevels of 30,000 or less. Snake Way to me now just seems to be more of a plot device than a useable unit of measure. If you're on Snake Way it's gonna be a while till you get across is what it seems to me. Just a thought.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Nappa

@othus12 said:

@One_Piece_God: no just no. read trough all the comments if you want to even realize why are we still debating.

@GrayWolf2: that feat was immediately when he got out of his ship. and saiyans dont become 30 times stronger with zenkai. they at most double their power level. btw i saw the official map and measured with pixel ruler the distance from kamehouse to the place goku and vegeta fought (10,000 km) i grabbed that and measured the entire world map. let me tell you the total size of the planet was a little below 30,000 kilometers. our earth has 40,000 kilometers. i guess that supports my theory that DB earth is smaller. here is the map in case you are wondering:

I'm pretty sure the feat people are talking about is when Goku healed from his injuries against Ginyu and traveled from one side of Namek to the other to encounter Freeza. When he did this his powerlevel went from 90,000 base, to 3,000,000. While you are right with normal Zenkai boosts in the beginning they only seemed to increase by maybe a third of what their power was Goku's Zenkai boost in this case was greatly increased over the norm. Even he was shocked by it so it wasn't your typical boost. I don't know how fast that makes Goku. I could lowball a lot and say 500 miles per second but that is just not right. Also good map but two things: 1) Using the shootout area between Goku and Vegeta is okay but let's face it not entirely accurate. We don't know whether they were closer or farther when Goku arrived and also they said over 10,000 kilometers. This can mean anywhere from 10,000-15,000 so it's tough to calculate. Though I will say you found a much better map than I did. 2) If we use this map and go by what Raditz said we get an exact 12,909 kilometers from where he fought Piccolo to either Kame house or Goku's home or in all likelihood somewhere in between since he was flying on Kinto Un. Using that as a measurement on this map you get around the 40,000 kilometers that the earth is.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Nappa

@othus12: Goku at best would only be mach 300 when he first arrived on namek. When he did the feat everyone is talking about he was 30times more powerful and thus would be a lot faster. As for a good map I'm having trouble putting it on here, but if you do a simple image search you can easily find it.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Nappa

@othus12: Goku traveled from one side of Namek to the other in a few seconds, not minutes. Freeza held back much of his power when he destroyed Namek. This is common knowledge. Goku confirms this and says if Freeza wanted to he could just blast the planet again and be done with it. Freeza did destroy planet Vegeta which is much larger than the earth. Also you wanna believe that Dragonball earth is so small then the gravity training that these characters talk about is now totally useless since 1G to them is much less than 1G to us. Either that or their is something in the manga that states that Dragonball earth is denser than our own. Also it is over 10,000kilometers from the rocky mountain area they fight a lot to the Turtle hermits house. Place that on the Dragonball Earth map and that's only a small distance compared to the whole thing. Dragonball earth is roughly around the size of ours. If it's smaller it is only slightly. Hell it may be even a little bigger you never know.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Toriko vs Nappa

Great so now dragonball earth is a lot smaller than ours huh. The amount of dragonball downplaying is growing ridiculously high these days. Listen: When Raditz arrived he mentioned something being a distance of 4,880 away. It turned out to be Piccolo. After he humbled him he found out that Goku was a distance of 12,909. If you know anything about Akira Toriyama's work these numbers mean Kilometers. Seeing as how Raditz ship landed I don't know maybe in the middle of the large landmass continent on Dragonball earth you can easily double that for total land. Then you add in the fact that Dragonball earth does in fact have oceans, quite large ones I might add and you can easily figure out that Dragonball earth has to be around the same size as our Earth. It's only structured differently. Where people get the idea that it is a lot smaller is beyond me. I guess they think the earth is 100,000 kilometers around that's the only explanation I can think of.

Post by GrayWolf2 (307 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Battles » Android 18 vs Zangya

@niBBit: I agree in the end Zangya is probably a little stronger than 18. Still a good battle idea which is rare for dragonball vs dragonball character battles.

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