GrayWolf2 (Level 7)

@supernova7005: He was useless because he was drained from practicing the Ma Fu Ba technique and getting his butt kicked by Drum. When he saved Goku from the first big blast that Piccolo sent he collapsed from exhaustion. Also, yeah being drained quite a bit would reduce their power down quite a bit. One more thing: while I know you're fighting about Muten Roshi being a moon buster acting like 23rd Tenkaichi Goku isn't one is pushing too far. Piccolo was only a little stronger without the weighted clothes when he blew up the moon than he was at this time. However he only used a basic blast to do it and with his weighted clothes on. If he used a special powerful technique to do it that would be one thing but acting like Piccolo with his power suppressed has more power with a basic blast than a super kamehameha from Goku during this tournament is a shaky argument to say the least.

@supernova7005: I think you're not taking into account the fact that by that point Goku and Piccolo were drained. In Dragonball the less ki they have the less durable they are. It's as simple as that.

@DBZ_universe said:

@supernova7005: Even if he didn't he is still in moon busting level.

Unless you also wanna call SSJ Goku a non planet buster cause he never did it...

And if you use this logic SSJG Goku isn't a moon buster either. Or a city buster, afterall Goku has never really destroyed much of anything. How in the world he has survived against so many powerful opponents who range from casual moon busting all the way to now casual solar system busting becomes one of the great mysteries of fiction.

@Kuma_From_Argentina: Yeah. The guy who accidentally knocked a heroines head across smallville. The guy who ripped a guys arm off, let him live only to have the guy seek revenge on and then just rip his other arm off. The guy who beat the crap out of Sodom Ion Yat in easily the best battle I've seen in comics. The guy who green lantern rings are afraid of and who punked Black Adam. The guy who could kill Superman easily. Yeah, I find this true Superboy to be a really neat badass of a character.

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@GrayWolf2 said:

I don't understand why so many people hate Prime. He's one of my favorite comic characters.

Same here bro.

Cool. The only thing that annoyed me about Prime is how the writers butchered him at the end. He had the potential to make a great Legion villain and instead they had him get taken out by the Teen Titans? Just a bunch of crap. Way to ruin a good character DC.

I don't understand why so many people hate Prime. He's one of my favorite comic characters.

@ReiKai: You sure about that? Because anytime I looked up stuff about her online she is listed as having died at that time.

If you allowed speedblitz any Freeza level character would take Arale out pretty easily. Her blunt force durability is fine but her energy attack durability stinks. She was taken out by an energy attack that was only powerful enough to cut the earth in half (bizzarely ironic) and it seems that everyone is forgetting that Arale was killed either by Super Buu's human extermination attack or when Kid Buu blew up the earth. Take your pick.

Broly's powerlevel increases constantly even without the elderly kais help. Having him sit for a day or so and amplifying his power at a greater degree than normal is just asking to have your universe destroyed.

@ReiKai said:

Like I said, it only ever really works for the anime. And Manga > Anime in terms of power anyway. Either way the rest falls under Multiversal law, which is all but effectively made true by the DBO story that has a group messing with events across time. Which, as I have explained elsewhere, may very well be the reason why and how Bardock ended up in the past.

Hmm now there's an interesting thought.

I'll go with C.

@Gsp22 said:

@ReiKai: No my friend Dead zone is not canon, you pointed it out when you said Krillin was surprised to learn Gohan was Goku's kid when they visited Roshi's just before Raditz came and smacked them around, The reason the dead zone isn't canon cause it has no relations to the Manga and like you said again The garlic jr saga was a filler, but their are some movies that can fit in certain parts of Dbz like Movie 9 and 13 but they too are not canon.. But i can see what your point is

Pretty much agree with this. The Dead Zone has some contradictions and the Garlic Jr. Saga meets a problem when Vegeta in the manga stays on Earth the whole time whereas in the Anime he searches for Goku in space watching him create giant craters and moving a moon casually. While semi interesting it just goes against the manga too much.

@danzi97: Name one other character in dragonball who ever came close to such a thing as galaxy busting. Just one. EDIT: And I mean especially during the time period that Broly was around.

@DBZ_universe said:

@eddz99: Goku cannot galaxy bust... Broly was defeated by a plot device...must I need to explain this to every anti-Broly fan?

Broly is the only legit Galaxy buster in DBU end of story.

Amen. Broly to me is the epitome of Toei animation just going nuts. They create a character too powerful to legitimately defeat so they kill him through bs. In the first movie he gets taken out from a charged up punch that really shouldn't have worked and in the second movie he becomes the only dbz character to my knowledge to ever have his heart randomly explode during a beam struggle.

Um...didn't this end in Gotenks getting spanked in the movie? With that being said Bills lolstomps. He took down Ultimate Gohan like he was nothing and Gohan is stronger than Gotenks.

@Dream: In case you misinterpreted the reason why I stated the solar flare is either lightspeed or really hypersonic is because I'm not too sold that it is lightspeed. It's just you gotta admit a very fast attack. Also I've noticed you seem hung up on Goku only being able to move at Mach 120 with Kaio-Ken. While this would reasonably be the case for long distance travel acting like this would be the fastest he could go in a short burst is wrong. When Goku flew across Snake Way it took about a day or so. That means he was moving at that constant speed for that long. Why do I bring this up? Because the cast of Dragonball do not have infinite stamina(Except Buu and the Androids I suppose) so he would have to pick a speed that he can maintain for a while. Otherwise he would just burn out quickly before he got to the end. Remember the fight between Vegeta and Android 18? When Vegeta was fighting at a speed too fast for him to maintain he burned out and got beaten by her. When you're running a long distance you don't just sprint as hard as you can do you?

@Dream: The proof is in what they do. After Shenlong grants a wish the dragonballs fly off to the far corners of the world and then land. In any depiction this process takes only a few seconds. I'm pretty sure flying from anywhere on the earth to the far corner of the planet in a couple seconds is as fast as I described it. Tao Pai Pai I'm pretty sure never ran for long at Mach 8 and yet with his burst he could jump on a pillar that he threw at that speed. Raditz dodged Piccolo's most powerful and fastest attack. Considering that Piccolo with the same powerlevel launched a lesser attack and destroyed the moon in a few seconds it's safe to say that Raditz's reflexes are pretty high in the hypersonic category too. And yet I don't recall him being able to fly as fast as he can read and react to attacks. The evidence is honestly pretty constant throughout the series.

@Dream said:

@eddz99: Remember how long it took Goku to fly from King Kai's planet to Enma's check out station on Snake Way? It took him hours to do so and the calc for it was rounded off to be at about Mach 30 travel speed on OBD. Even accounting for boosts in stats when he uses Kaio-ken, he's only at Mach 120 at his best speed during Saiyan saga with Goku being significantly stronger than Raditz by that point.

If Raditz is supposedly close to FTL as you think because of dodging Piccolo's Beam Cannon yet it takes hours for Goku to reach the end of Snake Way when he's stronger than Raditz after King Kai's training, why else would you think I would call bullshit on the Beam Cannon's speed when it busted the moon up?

The problem with what you're doing is you're using only long distance travel speed to determine how fast Goku is not his combat reflexes which are much faster than this. Case and point Kid Goku at best could travel I'd say Mach 1 for any long length of time and yet he has the quick burst of speed that allowed him to catch the 4-star ball which is massively hypersonic planetside. He also as many people have pointed out dodged Tenshinhans Solar Flare which is either lightspeed or another uber massively hypersonic attack. Travel speed and combat speed in Dragonball are two completely different speed levels with the latter being way faster.

@supernova7005: Can you prove that Hiei is mach 16+?

Piccolo solos. The only advantage I can think of for Sensui against him would be brute strength. Sadly that is ruined by three little words: Super Gigantification Spell. Travel speed he has against them but I don't know if he can compete with their reactionary speed. Piccolo takes this for them by being a dragonball character that can do more than just power up and shoot ki blasts.

Still too early to call but from what I read in the synopsis it looks like battle power doesn't mean too much anymore. These legit dragonball gods seem to run on a different power altogether.