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Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Coyote Stark vs Ulquiorra Cifer (rematch)

@waybig1010101 said:

@nishi99: by statements he made the three above him sound even stronger than himself just saying
@CerusSerenade said:


"Even if you were lucky enough to succeed, there are 3 Espada ranked above me who are much stronger than I."

Stark wins.

Fantastic example of feats>>>character statements. It could be argued that he was hiding his full strength, so that was part of the act. Either way, anyone who thinks that Hallibel>Ulquiorra doesn't know what they're talking about.


R1: Really hard to call, but probably Stark, in my mind. He was fast enough to blitz Kenpachi and Ichigo (when he had beaten Grimmjow), plus he was keeping up with Kyoraku. Though Ulquiorra has shown more feats...not decided on that one.

R2: Ulquiorra. In his R1 state he was able to blitz Vizard Ichigo and totally outclass him. He should be able to take down a base Stark.

R3: Ulquiorra. My opinion on this hasn't changed, Stark never showed anything that I was that impressed with. Moreover, his reiatsu was described by Uryuu as an 'ocean' above them- I don't remember Stark showing anything like that. Barragan aside, full power Ulquiorra always seemed the strongest to me.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Hashirama, Madara, Guy, Sasuke, Naruto, Obito Vs Nappa

@taichokage said:

True but team Naruto has considerably more hax than team Z did. In character Nappa would lose for sure given his cockiness in tanking attacks. Bloodlusted, eh.......

I'd pretty much agree with this, tbh, especially if the Naruto team have knowledge of Nappa's abilities.

@Low said:

@comicfanforever said:

Not overkill for sure...

An overgrown stupid ape vs 3 Sharingan users who can predict movement Naruto who can percieve movement? Its nothing but overkill. Can Nappa defend againat Gudou Dama? I don't think so. Can Nappa save himself from Mugen Tsukiyomi? I don't think so. This is a mismatch as it is.

Can Nappa defend against gudou dama? Let's say he can't. Are you saying that he's going to get tagged by it? Maybe, but I doubt it (given that his speed outclasses any of the gudou dama users), and definitely not if he's bloodlusted and just relies purely on energy attacks.

Can he save himself from mugen tsukuyomi? The answer to that question is right there in the scan.

@LHWKnight said:

@nishi99: I said absorb and I also said all three of them at the same time. did you forget Rinnegan chakra absorption.

You automatically assume that chakra absorption = ki absorption. Also, what was the strongest attack that was absorbed by the preta path ability? Last time I checked, it was rasenshuriken. Try again.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Scar(FMA)vs Alexander Anderson(Hellsing) vs Lord Mozgus(Berserk)

I don't know what Mozgus is capable of, but as most people seem to think it's between Scar and Anderson, I'll have to side with the latter.

Even with speed equalised, Anderson still outclasses Scar in durability, strength and skill. He can regenerate, he's strong enough to match Alucard physically (who can tear through vampires like paper) and, as Dream said, has deadly skill with his bayonets, which he has a seemingly endless supply of (explosive and regular).

Scar is more versatile thanks to alchemy, but I don't see that being enough to close the gap between them. Anderson should win at least 8/10.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Hashirama, Madara, Guy, Sasuke, Naruto, Obito Vs Nappa

If Nappa is bloodlusted/goes straight for the Scout Salute of Death, then everyone but Madara and maybe Obito is pretty much dead from the word go (the other 2 would follow after).

But if he just goes in mindlessly (certainly possible), then the Naruto team have a decent shot of actually winning the thing.

Can't say for sure atm, need to think about this one.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » tien vs krillen

Round 1: weren't Tien/Yamcha able to solo the likes of Recoome and Jeice after King Kai's training? (That might have been filler though, can't remember)

If this is Krillin immediately after the Guru power-up, I don't see how he can win. If it had been just before the Freiza fight, I'd give him the edge (I remember reading that his PL had risen beyond 50,000 by that point).

Round 2: I know it's been said in multiple cases that Krillin is the strongest human in the verse, but I don't see what's to stop Tien from erasing him with a neo tri-beam barrage. Sure it will leave him exhausted, but he'd still win. An attack that could keep 2nd form Cell at bay would be more than enough, if it came to it.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Pain vs. Ghost Nappa

Anime Pain has the power to defy the animators (see above), I just don't think Ghost Nappa can win this.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Strongest DBZ character current Naruto could defeat?

@Low said:

@othus12 said:

@Low said:

@flashback180 said:


are you saying madara and bust a planet -_-....

No. I'm saying he is planet level with the Mugen Tsukiyomi and that Human Cocoon Zetsu creating thing. Both Kaguya and Madara are.

that's not planet level. that's planet AoE. im still not buying to have kaguya on the level of ichiryuu. that's just crazy.

Planet level attack, AOE, whatever you wanna call it, the said techniques were planatary. So where did Ichiryuu argument come in this? I did not imply nor mention anyone in Toriko.

Yeah, you need to be careful saying that something is 'planet level'. People will instantly assume you mean planet buster, rather than employing an ability across the range of a planet.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Strongest DBZ character current Naruto could defeat?

@Dream said:


And no, feats>statements. Take Itachi's statement early in the series, for instance. Last time I checked, he stated that both of them would die if they were to face each other (note that he didn't know about his sage mode).

I meant author statements/ comments, not those from the characters. Comments from the author can hold just as much water as onscreen/ on-panel feats, sometimes even more so than onscreen feats, because you actually have input from the title's creator(s) revealing details to a series that wouldn't normally be covered within the title and said input would hold more water in credibility than fan assessments of judging the capabilities of a character. Character statements are more of a case-by-case basis because there are cases where said character is serious when judging actions and abilities of themselves or others and there are other cases where the statements are greatly exaggerated because a character is hyping themselves up. Unless there are contradictions, I'd consider author statements to be higher up in legitimatizing character capabilities, especially in the case of manga, because there are many cases in animated works, comics and other non live-action works where settings are not believably made to scale because realism is the last thing creators have in mind when trying to create anything for the sake of entertainment and very likely didn't think their characters would be used in battle debates such as this.

If it's not too much trouble, could you post the scan/extract for the city statement?

The scan above comes from the seventh Daizenshuu of Dragon Ball that covers geographical information on Earth in the world of the series. Here is a translation for what it covers with East City:

East City

Area: A-4

Special Characteristics: A city located in the eastern part of the world.

Events: Vegeta and Nappa’s spaceships touched down here. Nappa wiped it out. (Daizenshuu 4, p.79)

Fair enough then, I agree with that first part.

However, the scan you've provided isn't enough to dissuade me. Yes, it says that Nappa wiped it out- it doesn't say that the destruction was limited only to East City (which would be a very large city, given that it's one of only five in the world, but nevermind that).

When Kid Buu destroyed the Earth, it could also have been said that his blast wiped out kame house- doesn't mean the destruction was limited to that. As we saw, the explosion, according to the scan, was easily country level. Sorry, but saying that Nappa is limited to city busting remains as absurd as ever.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Yhwach Vs Current Naruto

Prime Yhwach/EoS Yhwach will almost definitely be stronger. Until then, as taichokage says, it's way too early.

For now, we can only say that he's at least slightly stronger than Yammamoto (he has control over his bankai and was able to stomp a shikai Yamma).

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Strongest DBZ character current Naruto could defeat?

@DBZ_universe: I leave for 6 days, I come back and previously respectable members have lost their minds.

@Dream: I know right, or using Gremmy's meteor feat and scaling it to country level...oh wait, except that's accepted by almost everyone. I am not pulling calculations out of my ass or anything, but the blast on the scan is clearly at least country level.

And no, feats>statements. Take Itachi's statement early in the series, for instance. Last time I checked, he stated that both of them would die if they were to face each other (note that he didn't know about his sage mode). Yet he displayed multiple feats that would give him the edge over base Jiraiya throughout the manga- guess which one I'm going with? I have no doubt a city was destroyed, but the fact is they showed the blast and it covered a far greater area than an average city.

If it's not too much trouble, could you post the scan/extract for the city statement?

@Low said:

@619locust said:


On topic:

Given current feats, anyone up to (not) Majin Buu Saga is fair game for the top tairs of Naruto.

@Low: what? Are you saying Naruto can match Frieza and Cell? he can' if I get a medical condition from trying to process how ridiculous that statement is I'm gonna have to sue you

sue me then. lol This is my opinion on it. I'm in no way saying anyone in Naruto can survive a Kamehameha level planet buster. I'm just saying the speed/physical strength/durability hype is just too much to accept. Naruto, Madara, Obito and Hogoromo, these four atomizes anyone from the series up to Majin Buu saga otherwise.

Was about to offer you a proper response, but it's taken me this long to realise that you're either trolling or have no clue what you're talking about (shame on me, I'm getting slower). I can't take anyone seriously who would suggest that the likes of Naruto or Obito could compete with Freiza (let alone Cell). You realise that the Ginyu Force could beat the 4 you just mentioned, right?

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Bills and Whis vs Omega Shenron and Super 17

Super 17 was killed by base Goku, Omega Shenron blew up a city. Hooray for feats :D

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Which Naruto characters can defeat Raditz?

@Low: There you go again, 'Nappa is city level'. Whatever you say dude.

Given that all characters involved in this are bloodlusted, the only people who I think could beat Raditz 1v1 are Kaguya and the Rikudo Sennin (based on hype), and maybe Madara at his best. Raditz can fly, has at least as much DC as about 99% of the Naruto cast and, in my mind, is still faster than any of them.

As for people bringing up Nappa, don't kid yourselves: he'd still solo anyone in Naruto (unless Kaguya starts flipping casual continent level attacks next chapter).

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Itachi Uchiha vs Byakuya Kuchiki (With Specifications)

@Redmonkeyssj4: My bad, I keep forgetting that Kenpachi still counts as a captain (he's more like a force of nature at this point).

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Strongest DBZ character current Naruto could defeat?

@DBZ_universe said:


That was my reaction, what the hell are people smoking suggesting his DC is below country-level?

@Dream said:

@nishi99: Again, an official source for DBZ, the Daizenshuu, confirmed that the feat in question destroyed a city, not a country. Just because there's a big burst of light from the Earth seen from space doesn't necessarily make it bigger in destructive scope.

And to anyone planning to make assumptions: no, I don't think city-busting is Nappa's best destructive capability.

Scans>>>>statements. And ok, let's say it was a city. I guess there are some cities in the DBZ verse bigger than most countries, then.

@Low said:

@nishi99: Uhhhh...I'm done here. In manga states city, hyped to country+...

Manga shows country+, morons attempt to deny it.

Seems the Naruto hype has begun to overboil, which is a shame. Fun fact, Nappa could still solo both Naruto and Sasuke with ease.

Current Naruto? I'm sure he could beat the farmer. He could beat the BoS versions of any of the Z fighters bar Goku. I'd put him a bit under BoS Piccolo/Goku.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Lucy vs Sakura

@Gabriel_Logan said:

Lucy wins and with few difficulty Sakura it is strong but she if it is a real Glass Cannon, Lucy has demonstrated that it can support a great Dammage, so it is not a glass cannon for anything.

Ah and before they accuse Lucy of Plot, Sakura has had mas help of the Plot that Lucy, Sakura has a great force, but it has not defeated anybody with her, Lucy can put an Uranometry squarely, without counting of that his spirits can defeat Sakura

So already you don be Hypocrites, Sakura is the queen of the Plot, do not try to justify it only for that one sees mas spectacularly to throb, though ultimately they save it to every moment,

Lucy whit Her Spirits cant be defeated, and Whit her Spirit King Sakura nop can do anything

Oh, Speed, And, What is te official Speed of Sakura? She has not demonstrated to be able to overcome the speed, Lucy could have overcome very fast assaults

I don't even...

@takashichea: Ok, didn't realise you weren't allowed to do that. Just a shame that posting actual scans is so difficult nowadays.

@taichokage: Agreed.

@Saladking: Disagree all you want, but did you not see the link I posted, or read the manga? Sakura's punch ruined everything around her, the Juubi clones were specks on it in terms of scale. Lucy's defending against multiple hits like that is laughable.

@Jgames: As far as I'm aware, the byakugo is the healing technique- the chakra focus thing gives her uber strength, not byakugo. I had assumed that this is current Sakura, so she has it active, which means we should see her pull off a mega punch or two.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Lucy vs Sakura

@Saladking said:

@Jinbeifan1: @Jinbeifan1 said:

@DBZ_universe: I'm not surprised by his inconsistent writing, I'll tell you that much lol

@Saladking: Pfft those explosions are as inconsistent as Trollshima's writing. A suicide bomb couldn't even kill Happy. HAPPY FOR PETE'S SAKE... I'm just disappointed by FT is all. It started out pretty good, but it's been very lack luster

That was a serious case of PIS because we saw that Jackal's explosion wiped out the entire magic council along with their headquarters and his bomb was able to knock Natsu out for a couple of chapters

Happy surviving was just PIS unless Hiro is being serious about Happy having city level durability

Nah, Happy's planet level easily, guy's gonna solo Acnologia.

@Jgames said:

Round 1:Lucy win with difficulty, her water shield did tank multi building busting explosion and is a auto shield, and has a attack that can one shot her since she doesn't have any durability feat aside from her healing and that attacked knocked out a guy that tanked several of natsu attacks, and add in more celestial spirit who can at least give her a challenge, Lucy takes it

Round 2: Lucy mega ultrastomp, auto shield and reflex to dodge sniper rifle, Lucy can easily summon the celestial king who one shot her.

Round 1: the explosion Jackal used to wipe out the council looked far stronger than the casual ones he was using against Lucy. If Sakura uses one of her mega punches, I don't see one of Lucy's shields surviving (Sakura's punch was probably at least city block level).

Mega punch > Mega bubble. Sakura's speed would also give her the advantage.

Round 2: Spirit King stomps.

@othus12 said:

@taichokage said:

Still Aqarius isn't insanely strong either unless I missed a power up for Aquarius too. This sounds interesting. May e I should continue reading.

aquarius barrier tanked a blast that knocked natsu out cold.

@SekiryuuteiDxD said:

Sakura has byakugan ok i need to read the manga

If I watched up to episode 243 in the anime what chapter do i start at

its byakugo, the technique tsunade used back at pein arc.

A blast that knocked natsu out cold...I wonder what this would do to Natsu if it hit him full on?

I agree that Lucy's gotten a lot better, but I don't see her water shield taking multiple hits like that. Sakura for round 1, Lucy for round 2.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » kenpachi vs Sasuke

@taichokage said:

Really? Look at how beat down he was by Nnoitra before using Kendo which he also has yet to use. It was to the point where he was using cheap tactics like pretending to be dead which is very out of character for him. Granted it might be even worse now but we know he goes to extreme measures before going all out. In fact he did not resort to kendo against Ichigo and it resulted in a double KO.

I remember that he was hurt pretty badly by Noitra. I also remember that he had removed his eyepatch a fair way before he even got to that stage (the eyepatch was like him going serious, kendo was more of a last resort).

As damaged as he was in that fight, however, it still pails in comparison to his current state. Not only has be been beaten, had his guts crushed by the space vacuum thing, but it looks as though he can barely move in his current state. As far as I remember, this is the worst condition we've ever seen Kenpachi in. He's a guy who enjoys the fight, and will balance himself so that he's in state where he can enjoy the fight. The fact that he's been reduced to being sprawled on the ground suggests there's no more he can do, then. I find it very, very hard to believe that even now, he isn't being serious. If he does just hop back up, or worse yet, do that and then pull a bankai out of his ass, then I'll admit that I'm wrong, but that would be terrible writing on Kubo's part.

Also, having awakened his zanpakto, I'm not sure the whole 'Kendo is my uber move' thing applies anymore. It looks like Kenny's going to need saving on this one (good thing Ichigo turned up).

@Ikki_Minami_ said:

@Zerogodlike: Yeah I get what you're saying, Kenpachi lose due to speed disadvantage, but Kenpachi has yet to take off his eye patch and show his Bankai. And as we know with Kubo and Kenpachi once he does that his power then should dwarf his power now imo, but it'll still take Sasuke a few good hits to take down Kenpachi due to his incredible durability.

@DevilMayhem666: Aye, I understand Yama is quite the badass XD but you do have to admit that Sasuke does not have or has not shown the sheer durability and endurance of Kenpachi, whose been stabbed in vital organs which if Naruto or Sasuke was stabbed their they'd die, also Kenpachi has greater strength then Sasuke. But I'll give this to Sasuke but it's still to early for both considering both have yet to show 100% of their true power if you get what I'm instigating in my argument.

Not only speed, go back and read the previous points. He loses due to a combination of Sasuke's speed, intelligence, hax and being a far more versatile fighter.

Also, see above, everything shown so far would indicate that Kenpachi is at his limit. Bankai? There's absolutely no proof he's awakened one, that's pure speculation, and even if he had, in his current state he can barely move, nevermind use a bankai. Sorry Kenpachi fans, was breaking through an enormous meteor and beating the strongest sternritter not good enough for you? Because that's as far as he's come at the moment, you'll have to wait a little longer if you want him to be EoS Juha Bach level or something.

Sasuke is not the one lying half-dead on the ground, barely able to move: he may have more to show. Kenpachi, apparently, does not.

I agree with you that Kenpachi has much greater endurance and strength than Sasuke, but against the things I mentioned earlier, it won't save him from losing. It will take a while, but Kenny's going down on this one.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Current Sasuke, Naruto, Madara Vs BOZ Piccolo and Goku

@Jgames said:

@GIRUGAMESH: at this point I would agree goku and piccolo can't one shot with physical attacks, but their speed is still outmatched everybody in naruto team and I highly doubt they won't use their energy attack if they in trouble. And one of them should be enough if not their after image and goku could also split himself to buy piccolo time. So while it would be difficult mainly because of those invisible madara which seem really random goku and piccolo will win

But as I say, team Naruto also have the element of surprise, have hax and are more versatile, plus they outnumber them.

They will probably let off a few energy attacks, but between susano and the team's firepower/durability they should be ok. I'm still willing to say that those energy attacks could give them a hard time, which is why I said the team wins 8/10. All the same, I just don't see team Z winning. Goku/Piccolo won't have that much time anyway, they're durable but after repeated susano slashes/bijuudamas/Madara powers they won't last long.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Current Sasuke, Naruto, Madara Vs BOZ Piccolo and Goku


@GIRUGAMESH: Goku team has enough speed advantage to blitz, but their dc at this point are not island, but a full energy attack from either person would obliterate them. Their stat are good enough where if the match get too intense he will just bust up a superkamekameha or a moon bustong energy blast from piccolo

I'm not entirely sure if the speed is that much greater, and even if it was, it's not as if Goku/Piccolo are going to one-shot them with a single punch. The team's sharingans/rinnegans, plus Sasuke's teleportation, plus the invisible rinbo shadows should help make up for a speed difference anyway.

I agree that a full powered blast from Piccolo or Goku would probably wreck team 1, but unless they're bloodlusted, I don't see them getting the chance in most cases. Team 1 just have a much wider moveset, which will keep team 2 guessing. Unless they fly up and do it right from the start, Goku/Piccolo probably won't get the chance to charge energy- they'll be too busy trying to survive the onslaught of invisible fighters, rasen-bijuudamas, PS slashes, a teleporting Sasuke and mountain-sized rocks falling from the sky.

Post by GIRUGAMESH (2,168 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Asura Kishin vs KIng Piccolo

@DBZ_universe: nice of you to say, and glad you agree.

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