FalconC2 (Level 9)

“ A king must live more vivid than any other and be a figure for all to admire! The king is the one who collects the envy of all his heroes and stands as their guide! Therefore, the king is not alone! ”
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Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Weakest Saint that can defeat Bills

I will put my own two cents in this and say Cancer Manigoldo can probably do it. He also has some pretty devastating skills in his arsenal. Such as Praesepe Underworld Waves that can separate a person's soul from their body, and send it into Yomotsu Hirasaka where they are effectively powerless. As well Praesepe Demonic Blue Flames that feeds off souls and can incinerate them.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Weakest Saint that can defeat Bills


Basically, what it says who are the weakest named Saints that can defeat Bills. They can come from anywhere Saint Seiya, Lost Canvas, Next Dimension, Episode G whatever you like or know best. For purposes of the match, CIS/PIS is off on both sides.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

I'll try but you know I am not the most subtle of individuals. Mother always said I was like dynamite, loud and explosive and often bearing a faint hint of cinnamon.

Never understood the last part. Kind of weird really. Anyway, I just hope ReiKai stops quoting my favorite childhood cartoons. They deserve much better. No offense.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita


@SpeedForceSpider: @taichokage: @hitsusatsu11: Don't worry citizens, I'll dice and cremate the hater arguments soon enough after I take a lil time to refresh myself over the events of the 1st TFU book, since that's all that's involved here. But I will still say a few things before I go off to read my books while butchering the Republic on SWTOR. Still a fun game and Imperial Agent Sniper and Sith Sorcerer are damned fun to play.

What sort of self-righteous god complex do you have? You couldn't try to sound more pretentious and self-absorbed even if you tried. I say this as I myself am a concerned citizen. I am concerned about your mental health. Please, Raigen. You need to learn to let this go and move on. It's the only way you will make peace with yourself.

You have to accept that sometimes you are wrong too. It's merely a human condition. We all make mistakes. It's up to you as a person to admit them. Also, it's cute how you attempt to sway the masses with baseless propaganda. So tell me, if you're so focused on waiting dice and cremating my "hater" arguments why don't you provide any actual evidence to support your points?

I am a hater. That is funny coming from you.

#1: General Kota is featless and doesn't exist prior to TFU.

I posted a video exhibiting what General Kota can do as well as the proficiency of his precognition.

#2: No one in TFU has ever fought a Magnaguard

Okay, so you are ignoring that Obiwan did in a piece of fiction belonging to Star Wars Legends. Making it canon to Star Wars Legends materials. That Anakin Skywalker could fight on even grounds with Obiwan in novelizations. That Darth Vader is even more powerful than Obiwan, and Galen Marek can overwhlem and defeat him. There is such a thing as power scaling Raigen. I am sure you are familiar with it.

#3A: No one in TFU has ever actually encountered the real Obi-Wan.

Galen Marek does not need to when he encountered and defeated Darth Vader. The man who had the complete advantage over Obiwan.

#3A: This extends to Vader who doesn't encounter Obi-Wan for another 3-4yrs and prior instances were as Anakin Skywalker

That doesn't stop Darth Vader from deflecting blaster bolts with little difficulty does it? Nor defeating Obiwan later on and that was not because of some random made up power up in-between those intermediary times.

when he wasn't 80% machine and as slow as an overstuffed goose.

It's funny that you think that actually mattered because that didn't actually make Darth Vader weaker. He only got stronger over the years, and powerful enough to face Galen Marek in heated combat. Though Vader did lose. Don't go saying Obiwan weakened either when Yoda was nearly nine-hundred years because of the force and still kicking ass.

#4: The abilities of other Jedi/Sith do not extend to Galen by virtue of drawing from the same power source. Each persons abilities develop in their own way.

It does when the basic abilities of using the force include increasing your reflexes and speed, and moving things with your mind not to mention that the people in question have encountered each other. We saw Darth Vader and Obiwan fight. It ended badly for Obiwan. That we know Darth Sidious and Darth Vader were the top dogs by the end of the prequel novelizations. That Darth Vader hunted down the reminder of the Jedi after their destruction acting as a sort of death dealer.

They extend to Galen Marek by the value of the fact he kicked some of their asses and even managed to hold Darth Sidious off long enough for the rebels to escape. Think of it this way Raigen. Zekka gets most of his speed from power scaling as well to characters portrayed as weaker than him. No, I am not saying Galen Marek is more powerful than Darth Sidious. I am saying he is more powerful than Obiwan.

And in the words of Uncle: "One More Thing!"

I am thoroughly disgusted by the fact you like Jackie Chan Adventures. It feels like part of my childhood has been violated by a drunken hobo that happens to live in a cardboard box.

Alita can regenerate and

Not if her brain chip is destroyed which would be quite easy to do with say someone with telekinesis powerful enough to slow down and alter the trajectory of a star destroyer crashing from orbit. Well, there's also moving it at all to begin with.

has an infinite power source.

Which is irrelevant unless it also happens to make her FTL.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Fury Flatliner (Embalming) vs Guts (Berserk)

No one reads Berserk or Embalming anymore?

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

I don't see too much reason to unlock this, but s'fine. Instead of beating down every minute detail of the 'arguments' thus far, I will just discredit a few things and continue on.

Yes, because you lost the debate and are just kludging your way through it now. Also, the things you are trying to discredit it with are of only secondary canon to Star Wars Legends which has its own canon policy and system now that's separate to the films and TCW.

You remember how they axed it don't you? They're completely separate now.

Statemen: "Magnaguard have lightspeed Reflexes"

Correction, Magnaguard's have relativistic reflexes. I never said light-speed. Feel free to quote me if I am wrong. I am not by the way. Oh, and for reference relativistic at bare minimum can only mean 10% of light-speed or more but never light-speed itself.

Reaction: "No."

So, you posted a scene where Anakin Skywalker defeats a bunch of them just as easily Obiwan did? You do remember that Anakin Skywalker is a powerful force user who trained directly under Obiwan?

All visual evidence shows that this is not true.

Oh, because they're not destroying everything around them? Just like Vampire Hunter D is not destroying around him when he is moving at similar speeds?

A so-far featless Ahsoka was able to eliminate three of them on her own during her first appearance in the TCW animated feature film that leads up into the series.

"Featless," so you posted a scene where Ahsoka defeats three Magnaguards even though we know they have relativistic reflexes? That is a feat for her Raigen. This is not a comic book either so you can't say it was just stupid writing either.

This is all ignoring that the TCW and the films are secondary canon to Star Wars Legends anyway now that the two have been separated.

Which is all canon and Disney is keeping it that way and building off it into their "Star Wars: Rebels" series airing in October.

Yes, canon to the films and not canon to Star Wars Legends or any of the better parts of the EU. As Galen Marek is a Star Wars Legends character and Disney has completely separated that canon from the canon of TCW and the films.

Statement: "Striking a TIE-Fighter in flight gives you subluminal reflexes."

Again you misquoted me likely on purpose or because of your simply abysmal reading comprehension. This is friendly advice. Work on that.

What I said is that they could "track Tie-Fighters moving at that speed and see them" and that was in counter to saying that Galen Marek wouldn't be able to see Alita.

Anyway, here is my reference for Luke tracking tie-fighters in space.

Luke reached out. The Force was here, as it was everywhere, and it was no harder to touch deep in space than it was in the swamps on Dagobah. He let it fill him. The TIE fighters suddenly seemed to be moving slower. Luke’s hands flew over the controls; he moved the stick with sharp and precise movements. Swung to his starboard and lit the lasers, double-tapped the fire button.
Lines of fire lanced out and shattered one, two of the four TIE fighters. The explosion spat a hard spray of wreckage at him as Luke looped away. Shards of the destroyed TIEs sleeted against the X-wing’s transparisteel canopy, a meal and plastic hail.

--Taken from Shadows of the Empire

Shadow of the Empire is set after the Empire Strikes Back but before Return of the Jedi so it should be applicable to Galen Marek as well as Luke Skywalker has yet to become powerful enough to face Darth Vader at this point.

TIE-Fighters max speed in atmosphere is 1200kph or 745mph, under Mach 1.

No, provide an actual reference for this instead of just making a claim. Also, I am calling bullshit on that. These are things that can accelerate to significant fractions of the speed of light and they decide to fly under Mach 1 in an atmosphere. They could bring it up to mach ten or thirty and they would be perfectly fine.

This is all ignoring that Luke Skywalker was in space when he did that.

Precognition follows intent while Sense can allow the user to

More claims and baseless speculation, and you claimed that I was going out of my way to assert nonsense as fact. When you have been the one doing it.

"see through the Force" and essentially 'feel' and 'see' everything around them.

More meaningless hogwash that contradicts what we actually see them do when they use the force to enhance themselves. Also, we see Luke use it to enhance his reflexes.

The TIE fighters suddenly seemed to be moving slower. Luke’s hands flew over the controls; he moved the stick with sharp and precise movements. Swung to his starboard and lit the lasers, double-tapped the fire button.

As I posted already. Not predicting where they are going to go with precognition but seeing them in slow motion.

As for precognition, we see with General Kota that it is expansive and effective regardless of intent. Kota sees that Galen Marek would become his student despite the fact that Galen is completely loyal to Darth Vader at the time and is trying to kill the general as Starkiller. Where exactly is the intent of Galen Marek's to become Kota's student in this scene?


And even General Kota was surprised by what he saw. Then later on in Force Unleash low and behold Galen Marek goes under Kota's "tutelage."

However, both such abilities have been tricked on more than one occasion. One such being the death of Andur Sunrider who, while distracted when rushing to the aid of his droid companion, was stung with a gorm-worm from a pirate behind him and was unable to deal with the poison, dying moments later.

Andur Sunrider? Are you serious he was like the weakest Jedi ever with no feats matching up to Anakin Skywalker as a padawan let alone as a Jedi Knight or as Darth Vader. Also, it's not a feat against Andur Sunrider's precognition because he literally had of a vision of his death before it happened. Andur being an idiot and unskilled as a force user let it happen just as it did in the vision. Proving it as completely accurate instead of defying it at all.

Such tactics as Distraction, Misdirection and Surprise have been the death of many Jedi and Sith and was one of the main reasons Order 66 was so efficient,

Which was a result of Darth Sidious clouding the minds of the Jedi as extrapolated on and not because of the failure of precognition. That is why it was so effective. The future was unclear to them at that point because of Darth Sidious.

because the Clones had no intention of killing any Jedi at all until that specific order was given, and since they didn't know when it would be given,

No, they did. Since the very beginning they were raised with this eventual betrayal in mind. It was all apart of Darth Sidious's plan to begin with and it was going to happen regardless. Also, "no killing intent" when we clearly see them try to kill Jedi and succeed in some cases? Yeah, right. And I am the tooth fairy.

there was no need to plan for it or think about it.

They were literally raised from birth with these directives, orders and plans indoctrinated into them. The plan was there since the very beginning but the Jedi noticed too late that Palpatine was a Sith Lord.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Fury Flatliner (Embalming) vs Guts (Berserk)

Fury Flatliner happens to meet...

...Guts from Berserk.

At a bar. After having one too many they decide to test their mettle. First one to croak loses.

This is Fury Flatliner as of current events, and Guts with his Berserk armor.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

@takashichea: I am insulting him because he is using fallacious debating tactics, and has consistently done so for years not only here but on other forums as well such as NF.

It's only obvious someone would be angry at someone who does that and doesn't even try to improve himself or his style of arguing. Refusing to learn and refusing to acknowledge anything that they have done wrong.

I am also angry that is he is mocking someone else's work by refusing to actually comprehend it.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita


That's Force Choke, not Force Crush.

You were talking about force choke the last I checked and did not specificy what FC meant. Now you're twisting around to try to dig yourself out of the hole you dug yourself into and are saying you meant force crush when you meant force choke. That's amusing.

And again, requires Seeing the target. A live connection via Holo still makes a Visual Connection.

Which shouldn't be a problem since Galen Marek and Luke Skywalker can perceive and see tie-fighters which are noted to move at sub-relativistic/relativistic speeds in the EU. That's ignoring the fact that some force users have actually done it without seeing something. As with Darth Bane who crushed someone's insides with the force.

It has nothing to do with range, only with what the Force user can See. Much of that is explained by HK-47 in how to kill them and how their abilities tend to function.

What I want you to do is actually refer to the time in that video HK-47 says that the things you are claiming. You do know he is also describing how difficult it is to kill force users as well? How it takes heavy ordnance and explosives at close range to do it and that gas is ineffective. That normal minds needed to be protected and that Revan, at Sith Lord, was the one who taught people how to do that. It wasn't something they could learn on their own.

It's funny how people post that video and ignore or twist its contents to fit their delusions.

Yes and he was Looking at him the whole time he he was doing Force Choke. Which is, again, a completely Separate ability from Force Crush. Obi-Wan demonstrates Force Crush against two Battle Droids.

It's all just different applications of telekinesis and are you seriously saying that force choke and force crush are literally so different that one can't work on sentient creatures and the other can? That's like saying a pyrokinetic who set a person's head on fire can't do the same to inanimate objects or vice-versa that one that's used their pyrokinetics on furniture can't use it on people.

Again you're completely mixing up abilities. Galen did not "disintegrate" Troopers with Force Crush.

They are the application of the same thing: the force. In which case, the force is being use in a way that is telekinetic. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that.

That's Force Wave, and that's something that he only ever did in the Trailers.

So what? Official material and trailers for a game are non-admissible now because you say so?

Galen never disintegrated people with the Force in the novelizations or in cut scenes within the games themselves.

Yes, just like he "never" killed hoards of storm troopers with the force and just like he "never" tossed people around like rag-dolls with it.

I know cause I have both novels. Read them cover to cover and they remove a lot of the fluff from the games.

That's claim that you have provided no real evidence for besides the fact you are saying A doesn't display B because "I totally know what I am talking about and have read the novels."

It doesn't help that your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired so I am suspect of how you interpreted them.

But even that's not impressive. Regular Clone Troopers can run up, tear their heads off and beat them down with bare hands if necessary.

It's funny how terrible you are at hiding your bias is. So now, apparently clone troopers are super-human and can tear people apart with their bare hands because you so. I wonder if you also think they are super fast too.

Again, two different abilities.

Again, it's the same thing being used in a different way.

And Vader used it on people not expecting it and had no ability in the Force at all. It's still not the same as Force Crush, and even that's never been done against anything larger than a Human.

Oh great, so apparently if these people knew it was going to happen they could somehow magically defend themselves against force choke. That's cute. Also again, force crush is just the force being used as telekinesis. That's all there is to it. They do not even scream out of the name of the move like some anime. They just fucking do it and things like force crush and force choke are just people applying names to various ways a force has used his telekinesis.

Also, showing us what Vader can do isn't the same a showing what Galen Marek can do. While Alita doesn't use "The Force", she has electromagnetic powers and control, as well as the ability to generate and manipulate plasma. She can also sense ki.

Oh good, plasma that will certainly help. So will the ability to sense ki against someone who can where Alita is even if he is miles away from her. Yes, great help that. Also, exactly how will electromagnetic powers help here? This is one moments you are saying something can do something because you say it can, right?

Unlike the majority of SW fans, I actually have evidence and proof and not pointless and horrible speculation.

Oh really, then what do you call assigning names to moves that all byproducts of a force user utilizing his telekinesis even though they never actually differentiate those moves they do in-story. Oh, and that assuming one move is limited to non-organics and non-sentient because "that's what I think even though we see they can use the force on people just fine."

Thank you for proving your bias. I can see why everyone universally hated you at the OBD Raigen.

Also, never said Alita was FTL. Superluminal is more like sublight and closer to lightspeed. And as I said, it required specific conditions to be met.

Yes, and those conditions exist only within your own mind.

By the way, if you meant sub-light or relativistic you would have said subluminal. Admit it Raigen you fucked up and you are trying to back-peddle away from one of your mistakes as per usual.

I should point out that he is BS'ing out his ass. That's not acceleration. That's the editing team switching from Live to Green Screened CGI footage of them using Force Speed. It's just the transition from the Live Feed to the CGI.

Oh, okay so it's one big technical fault and anything we see on screen is unadmissible because it could be a result of some "technical fault?"

Are you seriously going to dismiss what we see on screen as some made up technical fault that you pulled out of your behind? Okay then, all scenes in any movie must just be technical hang ups then. You know, except the ones you think are okay or adhere to whatever bias you have.

That's just wonderful.

Also, his math is complete BS as well. To go a distance of 1meter in 0.04sec is a speed of 25m/s. You know how fast that is? 55.9mph. That's it. This is using an actual Calculator. This is why SW fans need to go back to school. They need to stop inventing numbers and learn how to do Math properly.

Holy fuck, you really are that retarded. He is talking about acceleration not speed when he said that. Those are completely different things you complete and utter dimwit. Now try to put those numbers he did in a calculator and using the formula for acceleration.

And Star Wars writers need to do the same and learn actual Physics.

That's cute coming from a guy who couldn't be bothered to actually read and comprehend Darth Wong's calculation. Very, very cute.

Coming from the same guy who does not reference how he is getting his numbers.

Toji had done something similar before in an earlier match, but again requires very specific conditions to perform.

Impressive but do note that even Obiwan can hold his own against blaster fire coming from over ten thousand droids. Note the Magnaguards also have relativistic reflexes. As in they could react at that speed.

Revenge of the Sith noveliziation/pdf

Three MagnaGuards, each with a double-ended weapon that generated an energy field impervious to lightsabers, each with reflexes that operated near lightspeed, each with hyper-sophisticated heuristic combat algorithms that enabled it to learn from experience and adapt its tactics instantly to any situation, were certainly beyond Obi-Wan's ability to defeat, but it was not Obi-Wan who would defeat them; Obi-Wan wasn't even fighting.

He was only a vessel, emptied of self. The Force, shaped by his skill and guided by his clarity of mind, fought through him. In the Force, he felt their destruction: it was somewhere above and behind him, and only seconds away. He went to meet it with a backflipping leap that the Force used to lift him neatly to an empty droid socket in the ceiling hive. The MagnaGuards sprang after him but he was gone by the time they arrived, leaping higher into the maze of girders and cables and room-sized cargo containers that was the control center's superstructure.

Here, said the Force within him, and Obi-Wan stopped, balancing on a girder, frowning back at the oncoming killer droids that leapt from beam to beam below him like malevolent durasteel primates. Though he could feel its close approach, he had no idea from where their destruction might come...until the Force showed him a support beam within reach of his blade and whispered, now. His blade flicked out and the durasteel beam parted, fresh-cut edges glowing white hot, and a great hulk of ship-sized cargo container that the beam had been supporting tore free of its other supports with shrieks of anguished metal and crashed down upon all three MagnaGuards with the finality of a meteor strike.

Two, three, and four. Oh, thought Obi-Wan with detached approval. That worked out rather well. Only ten thousand to go. Give or take. An instant later the Force had him hurtling through a storm of blasterfire as every combat droid in the control center opened up on him at once. Letting go of intention, letting go of desire, letting go of life, Obi-Wan fixed his entire attention on a thread of the Force that pulled him toward Grievous: not where Grievous was, but where Grievous would be when Obi-Wan got there...

Leaping girder to girder, slashing cables on which to swing through swarms of ricocheting particle beams, blade flickering so fast it became a deflector shield that splattered blaster bolts in all directions, his presence alone became a weapon: as he spun and whirled through the control center's superstructure, the blasts of particle cannons from power droids destroyed equipment and shattered girders and unleashed a torrent of red-hot debris that crashed to the deck, crushing droids on all sides. By the time he flipped down through the air to land cat-footed on the deck once more, nearly half the droids between him and Grievous had been destroyed by their own not-so-friendly fire. He cut his way into the mob of remaining troops as smoothly as if it were no more than a canebrake near some sunlit beach; his steady pace left behind a trail of smoking slices of droid.

"Keep firing!" Grievous roared to the spider droids that flanked him. "Blast him!"

Obi-Wan felt the massive shoulder cannon of a spider droid track him, and he felt it fire a bolt as powerful as a proton grenade, and he let the Force nudge him into a leap that carried him just far enough toward the fringe of the bolt's blast radius so that instead of shattering his bones it merely gave him a very strong, very hot push-that sent him whirling over the rest of the droids to land directly in front of Grievous.

This is most definitely applicable to Galen Marek as he is above Darth Vader and Obiwan. And since Galen Marek is strictly EU this applies to him. Don't go saying that it requires time or some nonsense. Powerful force users delve into the force into the force at will and easily might I add as we see Obiwan do here.

It only worked against Caerula all of once because the first time it was unexpected. Also, you're wrong about how Force Precog works. It is almost entirely about Intent. And it can be tricked rather easily, as explained in the HK-47 video. Peter's Spider-Sense is completely different, and even that can be tricked.

No, it's not it lets Luke Skywalker fight whilst blind against a droid that cannot possibly have any "intent" in his lightsaber training with Obiwan. That's one mark against what you said.

As for HK-47 point the exact time in the video, and the exact quote, because he is also saying things in support how hard it to kill Jedi. Gas weapons being ineffective, Revan having to teach people to defend their minds and other things like it requires explosives and heavy ordnance at close range.

As shown, Alita in a damaged Tuned body was hypersonic. In Imaginos1.0 against Caerula she's even faster.

That's cool even padawans can defend against slug-throwers, which fire hypersonic projectiles as noted in the novel Shatterpoint, and blasters which are more advanced than them. Obiwan can fight droids with relativistic reflexes and deflect blaster bolts coming from ten thousand droids. Galen Marek is above him and Darth Vader.

And in Imaginos 2.0 she exceeds all limits. She literally performs brain surgery to counteract tens of thousands of waves rebounding within Zazie's skull at Mach5+speeds, and had to create a counter-wave for each and every one of them within nary an instant to save her.

At minimum she counters 20thousand invisible, microscopic particles in Zazie's head that move in excess of Mach5 (Hypersonic Speed) and does so within a second or two

No, it's not a second or two it's you are literally making up a time-frame.

The soliton waves were moving in excess of Mach 5. So in less than 1/500th of a second, each of them was bounding randomly around inside Zazie's head. And in faster than 1/10000th of a second, Alita was countering them. That's 20x Faster. That would actually place her reaction and striking speed at Mach 100. And that's at the very least.

Good to know and I have no problem with Alita being that fast but do note that Galen Marek having relativistic reflexes and attack speed means he is in the mach 88,000 range. Which means through some division...

100/88100 = 0.00113507377

That Alita has about only around 0.00113507377 percent of the reflexes and attack speed a Magnaguard would have.

Though your math is extremely suspect and you are once again making things up in regard to it like the "1/500" and "1/10000" remarks you made without providing a reference for where you came to those numbers or what formula you used to get them.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita


Actually, the Clone has feats like steering a falling ship with TK as it was breaking up in the atmosphere.

You are forgetting that the original Galen Marek also slowed down and altered the course of the star destroyer that fell from orbit on foot in both the novel and comic.

That is better than anything the Galen has done. Also, in the dark side ending of FU 1, Sidious fodderized Galen with a simple gesture.

The dark side was non-canon and the Force Unleashed II follows up on the light side ending. During the light siding ending Galen Marek is able to hold off Darth Sidious long enough for the rebels to escape and dies for it. You remember? Do also remember that the dark side ending leaded to Luke Skywalker joining Galen Marek as his apprentice. That's a complete contradiction of canon.

The original did no such thing as "hold his own" against him.

You are forgetting the part where Galen Marek is able to hold off Darth Sidious enough for the rebels to escape. Also, I did not say hold his own I said hold off there's a difference.

In the FU novelization Galen says something like "it's a trick! he is stronger than you know!" so it's obvious he wasn't holding his own.

Yes, but that was when Darth Sidious was trying to turn him to the dark side. When that failed he tried to kill Galen Marek and the rebels but Galen Marek managed to save them with his sacrifice.

Also, it wasn't "it's a trick! he is stronger than you know!" it was more along the lines of some inner monologue on how powerful Darth Sidious was.

Vader was also weaker and slower in the first game. He had several modifications for his suit including the ability withstand force lightning

No, Darth Vader had no such mentioned modifications and he was not weaker and slower. He was just the same. I do not recall these modifications that you are talking about.

and the original Starkiller's was pretty weak.

We are talking about the same force lightning that could match Darth Sidious's long enough to save the rebels from his wrath? No, it wasn't weak at all.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

@ReiKai: Force Crush requires Focus and, more importantly, to see the target.

No, not really it's something that can be done easily and at the drop of the hat. As take for example this instance.

Or, with Darth Vader here where it also required almost no focus.

At approximately 1:38+ we see him do it with ease.

FC against a Sentient being has never been performed because they naturally resist influence over their bodies.

What I just showed you several instances where force choke was done to sentient beings and that it actually worked. Are you messing with me or something. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Star Wars knows that force choke can be used on people.

Hence the most any Force user has ever done is a Force Choke. Which is completely ineffective against Alita. Alita has full control over her body, which is a living machine with Imaginos 2.1+ and she's impervious to mental effects and attacks.

What are these generalizations you are coming to coming from? Also, you should try telling that to all those storm troopers who got viciously murder by it. You do remember that even Galen Marek's clone could disintegrate hoards of them with it? Yeah, that is some resistance they got. I am pretty resistant to fire too just ignore the fact that it can horribly kill me.

In terms of speed, she was low hypersonic in her Tuned body. Imaginos 1.0 she was high hyper-sonic, and 2.0 she's over Mach50 and, under specific conditions, can even achieve superluminal speeds.

Do you have calculations to actually prove all of that or are just pulling random numbers out of nowhere? You are going to need heavy proof to prove that Alita is actually FTL and I do mean that with an emphasis on heavy because I don't what you are talking about you say that.

Amway, I am going to quote Darth Wong from SD.net about force speed. This is the relevant link.


All right, I'll call your little bluff, asshole. The one thing I hate worse than someone who plays games in a debate is someone who outright lies about the facts, and by claiming that you've inspected this scene and seen no Force-speed, you're lying. I digitized the sequence, did an inverse-telecine with VirtualDub to convert back to the original theatrical frame rate, and dumped to image sequence. Read 'em and weep, bullshitter:

Time: 0 seconds. This is before they start.

Time: 0.04 seconds. They initiate Force-speed. Notice how they've become transclucent. You can actually see the door right through Qui-Gon.

Time: 0.08 seconds. It's hard to see because they're translucent in Force-speed, but judging by Obi-Wan's saber, he's covered roughly 1 metre. To accelerate from standing start to cover 1 metre in 0.04 seconds requires acceleration of 1250 m/s^2, or more than one hundred fucking G's at a minimum. Even if the location of his sabre is misleading and he only covered 1/2 metre in that time, he would still need to accelerate at more than 60 G's.

Time: 0.12 seconds. Obi-Wan has covered another metre, which indicates that he's topped out at around 20-30 m/s (45-68 mph). That's fucking automobile highway speed, pal. And we're not just talking about moving his arm or bending his hips; we're talking about accelerating his entire body.

Time: 0.21 seconds. Notice how Qui-Gon is quite obviously transclucent in this scene; he is only visible as a shadow. Obi-Wan is almost completely invisible; if it weren't for his sabre, you wouldn't even know he's there. Now we know the ANH novelization wasn't exaggerating when it said he could become wraith-like.

The bold is what is important as they have an acceleration of 1250 m/s^2 meaning that both Obiwan and Qui Gon Jinn could reach high supersonic speeds if only given a whole second. That's how ridiculous their acceleration is.

Galen Marek is obviously above the both of them in terms of power and skill.

Alita also has mind tricks of her own and can manipulate her opponents mind with Mental Emptiness, and she can project her Intent as illusions to create Astral Doppelgangers.

The latter worked against Caerula Sanguis whose power was not precognition it was a form of prediction of an opponent's moves kind of like what the Midnighter does. They assess all possible moves an opponent could make and counter the most likely action. Which is why Alita's split intent worked. Force precognition on the other is not about reading an opponents future moves by analyzing their behavior and intent. It's about literally sensing the future like with Spiderman's spider sense.

Ultimately Alita is already so fast that she can separate Galen's head and limbs from his body before the Force can tell him how boned he is.

Which you have neglected to provide any actual evidence for other than "this person is that impressive because I say so." I wanted answers not seeped in bias and the only thing you brought up was this:

Which you have neglected to actually apply any context for as from my position it just looks faster than eye and some after-images unless you want to apply some calculation to it. It better make sense though.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

Also, I would argue that is original is stronger based on the fact he could hold off Darth Sidious for a while. As well as having less trouble with Darth Vader in his final confrontation with his former master than his clone did.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

@SpeedForceSpider: The original, though there shouldn't be much of a difference as the only reason the clone is so powerful is because he has some of the original's memory and aptitude towards the force.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

It was in the Last Order manga IIRC. That's where more of her impressive feats are and where she gets a few new bodies. Zekka was pretty badass in it.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

I think she has a laser or something but how powerful is that?

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

I remember Alita being pretty fast. Much, much weaker characters than her are supersonic.

Also, has some good regeneration and unless her brain chip is destroyed she will just heal the damage. A few ranged attacks could help her here but Alita is heavy on the melee.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

@EVA_01: Oh, I don't have a winner in mind I am just bring up some of Galen's feats and what he can do. I want to see if someone can actually back up their claims with something tangible that isn't seeped is anything approaching a bias.

That's why I asked "how exactly" and didn't say "Galen would win this regardless."

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

How exactly? Galen Marek could just crush her before she could any of that and if he get her brain chip it's all over for her. Not to mention his force lightning should be powerful enough to power this.


You know on top of being capable of disintegrating things with the force, and altering the trajectory of star destroyers falling from orbit. You know, I like that HK-47 talks about how extremely difficult it is to kill force users, that gas is generally ineffective against them, that only heavy ordnance and explosives at close range could do the trick, and that people had to be taught how to defend against their mind tricks by Revan a Sith Lord because they were helpless without him. Oh, and that any planning is useless as well because of their precognition.

By the way, before you say they don't have superspeed because I know you will do remember that force speed is a thing. That slug-throwers are hypersonic and they are woefully inadequate compared to blasters which are more advanced in every way. Same blasters powerful forcers like making a mockery of.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Galen Marek vs Battle Angel Alita

Galen Marek and...

...Alita face off.

So yeah, they are both in their prime. No real restrictions. They are both here to kill each other and have nothing holding them back on that.

Post by FalconC2 (379 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Who in anime/manga can defeat Mxy (DC) and Q (ST)?


So basically you're going to ignore everything shown and all translations and Insult everyone who enjoys the series because you dislike it? And this is where no one will listen to anything you have to say now.

I am not ignoring everything regarding it. I actually noted the Shining Trapezohedron was powerful just that everything outside that the most impressive destructive feat for Demonbane is destroying an island in the fight with Dagon. I was demanding references and actual citations proving your gross exaggerations and other nonsense.

As for why I dislike it? It butchers Lovecraft, makes a mockery of everything he stood for, and turned it into pornography that panders to lolicons. The aforementioned lowest common demographic. At least I am honest about my feelings on it Mr. I-hate-star-wars-so-I-dedicate-my-whole-life-to-it-by-dishonestly-debating-against-it.

This story is only a fairy tale.

But even the god who dreams at the center of the World, the god who created all things in Existence, can never, ever destroy it.

For it is a story of momentary love, forever carved into infinite time----

It is the Song of Life.

Let us considered a hypothetical.

A universe inside a reactor.

A universe inside a test tube.

A universe inside a chewing gum wrapper.

This is the story of a universe outside another universe.

This is the story of a universe inside another universe.

This is the story of an eternity contained in a single moment.

This is the story of infinity contained in the tiniest speck of dust.

This is the story of a universe outside another universe outside another universe outside another universe outside another universe outside another universe....... This is the story of endless, infinite universes.

Everything is limitless and momentary.

The infinite and finite will melt together, the circular snake will fall to pieces, and all things will return to the boiling Soup of Chaos.

Everything is as foam on the waves.

Creation is but a fleeting dream, dreamt by the blind idiot-god who is King-of-All as he dozes on the edge of waking.

When he wakes, it will end.

It will simply vanish, and there will be no one to know or remember.

Or perhaps it will simply never have existed at all.

So is the World really nothing more than a fantasy?

This is a hypothetical, but----

There are those who do not think so.

This for instance is just taken from one of the endings in Demonbane. Specifically, one the endings with Al Azif. It's not referring to Demonbane but the Song of Life. As humankind and those associated to it, and even the freaking power of love bullshit can't be stopped (ugh, Lovecraft must be rolling in his grave). Also it's also calling the entire thing a fairy tale that does not exist and that's why the story itself, not Demonbane, can't be destroyed. As I said before it's full of flowery prose and other vague stuff that is largely open to interpretation.

The only clear thing from this is that we know it's a multiverse which I already clarified earlier when I said Azathoth's destructive capacity was multiversal. Don't go saying it's more than just a multiverse either. There are such things as multiverses consisting of infinite universes. DC and Marvel for instance. They even have more than one, and even megaverses consisting of multiverses.

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