Echelon9 (Level 9)

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Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: The definition of "life energy" is very vague. You don't even have to corporal to be alive. Even the DBZ wiki generalizes ki energy as having great emphasis on the body. So that's where it basically comes from. Star seeds contain life energy, meta energy, spirit energy all converted into cosmic energy when the seed is manifested. In the SM verse the body, mind, and soul can all be regenerated through sheer willpower. Everything that makes up the essence of that person is held within one seed. And wow, more garbage logic - law of equivalency destroys verse debates? It's because of that law we can even have them in the first place.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: Exactly. They don't use ki or life energy. They use cosmic energy derived from a power source called a star seed, which includes the physical body from where ki is found in DBZ. So ki energy alone isn't going to affect them. Which is why we use the law of equivalence to state that both types of energy are equal to each other in a crossover battle. Saturn would be affected by ki, and Broly - having a source of power - could have it ripped away from him, destroying his mind, body, and soul in the process. Got the concept? Good.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@AnimeDefender: He gets a pass in this case since he's not the one who created Broly's story.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: Law of Equivalence. Ki is part of the body; the body is part of the star seed. Your logic fails.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: She didn't wipe the solar system? The explain how people on the Moon and as far away as Pluto saw the glaive fall and still died instantly with not a single soul left alive anywhere. The series would never had started if she hadn't of done this. Jesus fuck you're retarded. Based on your shitty argument that doesn't follow the law of equivalency, ki wouldn't affect her because it doesn't exist in her universe. Only cosmic energy has been shown affecting her. Does Broly use cosmic energy? Fuck no, thus not affecting her.

I've made my arguments and the OP can decide for himself who wins. Continue wanking here if you want.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: So because she was awakened, like Goten did Broly, that's help. Don't be retarded. Wiping the solar system and killing everyone is her power. She got no help with that. So based on your logic Saturn isn't going to be affected by ki because it doesn't exist in the SM verse, Bleach characters are automatically invisible to nearly every other verse, and illusions will only work if you have chakra. You can make whatever excuses you want to help out your gay lover, but ignoring the basic principle of a verse battle - to compare the dynamic powers of characters in crossover battles as if their verses had merged - is just blatant ignorant downplay.Especially when you've been proven wrong. In verse battles you always act under the law of equality.

Under the law, against SM characters, if you've got a power source it can be removed and manifested as a star seed instantly destroying the body, mind, and soul in the process. Broly loses. And badly. Get over it.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94 She didn't have help. Based on your logic Broly needed Goten's help to wake up from the comma Goku put him in in the previous movie after he beat his ass so badly. They summoned her there to kill everyone and she did just that. Law of equivalence. Broly has a source of power; he has a star seed. You can try and deny the context all you want, still doesn't change the fact that Broly's going to die, and the match is a stalemate.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@AnimeDefender: Really, then how was it used to put out a fire if it burns as hot as the sun? Also explain why Goku's first kamehameha that he shot at a car left it crumpled instead of outright incinerating it or making it explode. The logic doesn't make any sense.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: So we agree Janemba > Broly at least. I did prove my second point removing the star seed = instant death. If you want to treat this battle under the law of equivalency where Saturn is even affected by ki in the least, then Broly damn well would have a star seed to be manipulated. This is two way dance comparing the components of two different series. Don't be pissed that the SM series contains way more haxed fighters.

Proof? How about the fact that if she hadn't the series wouldn't have even started. But since you are clearly need to lead by the hand, here...

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/203/07-033.0/compressed/u024.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/203/07-033.0/compressed/u025.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/203/07-033.0/compressed/u026.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/203/07-033.0/compressed/u027.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/203/07-033.0/compressed/u028.jpg

So basically Saturn was summoned by the rest of the Outers who couldn't leave their planets. After the Silver Moon Kingdom was annihilated as she dropped her glaive, without even leaving her own planet, and everything in the solar system died.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: Energy doesn't have mass to generate heat. At be consistent with the laws of physics if you feel like casually breaking them. The movies do not all share the same director. Stay mad because I proved how stupid your logic is. Really, where's Broly in Movie 12 then? Was he among the fodder that got killed on Earth because he was too much of a pussy to challenge Janemba? Yeah right.

You want proof, sure. I'm happy to educate the stupid if it will finally shut them up. A brief history lesson since you know fuck all about the series. Everyone in DBZ has ki, right? Well everyone in the SM universe has something called a star seed. Its a cosmic power source from which the characters minds, bodies, and souls all originate from. Star seeds are what allow reincarnation in the SM series to work the way it does through the Galaxy Cauldron. If the soul is removed from the body then the body would simply go limp, but still exist as if it were a hollowed out shell. If the star seed is removed, then the body instantly disintegrates along with the mind and soul. Saturn dropping her glaive works the same way as removing the star seed, except it spreads out in one big wave the range of the solar system, killing everything in it's path. We know it works this way because not a trace of life in the form of physical bodies remained in the solar system from when she dropped it 1000 years prior to the start of the story, and the Outers - who were chained to their home planets - watched as Saturn unleashed the attack from the moon and they to, on the other side of the solar system died instantly too. And they were later reincarnated via the star seed.

Broly gets hit by this attack his mind, soul, and body will disintegrate. Galaxia uses a similar technique; the range is much smaller but it's spammable, and she can use it on planets and stars where as Saturn can't, just sentient beings. The technique basically works the same way as the Eternal Atoms from Bastard if you are familiar with the series.

Even if Saturn can't defeat Broly using the DRR this certainly will.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Cosmic Armor Superman, Rune King Thor, Vs This Anime/Manga Team

Some of these are hilarious. Well done. And the multiversal Thought Robot stomps. Oh well, might as well join in.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: Pure ki energy wouldn't have mass to generate heat. Cooler's movie is irreverent in this argument since it has a different director entirely. It worked just as we saw it - the kamehameha punched him into the sun, it exploded, Broly wasn't affected until the sheer heat of the sun killed him. Go back and watch it again. His dad tried to use telekinesis generated artificially and the device failed. Her attacks attack the body, mind, and soul simultaneously. That's why he's not surviving her dropping her glaive; unless he can somehow survive soul extinction. Yep... not happening.

And her attacks? Instant. Dropping the glaive has the range of the solar system. DRR has the range of a planet. BTW in the manga even Mystic Gohan claimed he could not outrun an attack with planetary range. So hows Broly going to do it? Hell, all she has to do is smack Broly upside the head with her weapon and it'll drain his energy as many times as she hits him.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: How's the kamehameha doing something to Broly when it doesn't even use heat? It wouldn't be adding anymore force to the sun that the sun couldn't generate. Watch the movie again. As soon as the kamehameha hits the sun it explodes. Then we see Broly inside struggling then a second later the heat of the sun eradicates his body.

Saturn doesn't use ki. Her attacks do conceptual damage. Do you even understand what that means? She wouldn't just be targeting his body, but his mind, soul, and very concept of self. This is a tangible attack that hurts intangible beings. Why? Because the attack is abstract in nature, representing the very element of death to anything that exists. Broly puts up his cute little ki shield and the DRR goes right through it, draining all his energy in the process. She drops her glaive and he dies instantly. This is something way beyond the power of just the sun or solar system, and would require additional hax beyond just having a strong body in order to tank. Stop treating the SM series as if it were DBZ.

As I said. Stalemate.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@ReiKai: Actually those burns were likely caused by friction, instead of heat from the blast. But are you going to ignore the part of my argument where Broly obviously can't defend himself against her attacks but she can? You've seen the movie. You think the explosion he caused that blasted Trunks and Goten out of SSJ would do anything to her when I showed evidence that she can easily resist temperatures above 25,000 k? And that's without using cosmic energy shields. I didn't say the nature of ki couldn't be changed; obviously it can. But if the concussive force is high enough, it can in fact atomize a target. Cell can be defeated by having his body atomized, but Buu can't. Which is why the kamehameha was ineffective against Buu. The attack that launched Broly into the sun didn't have any real heat behind it, as the kamehameha's never really shown to have, so it was primarily the sun that did him in.

Stalemate is probably the only consensus we'll come too.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: Wrong. Dropping her glaive means all life within the range of the solar system is immediately wiped out. Anyone with less than star level durability would die instantly. Watch the movie again. As soon as Broly's body hit the Sun it immediately began to break down and a second or two later he was vaporized. The kamehameha wave doesn't have heat behind it. It's just a concussion force. Otherwise Roshi couldn't have put out a mountain of flames with it.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@ReiKai: Resistance is a type of durability though, and his shields are ki based. If that's the route you want to go, fine. Which means that she can hold her own against his ki attacks if she can resist the heat from a large star, but what protection does he have against hers? None. Her attacks are capable of dealing conceptual damage as well as ripping a body apart. Ki is based on physical energy alone, and is ill equipped to deal with that kind of cosmic energy. If she drops her glaive he'd be obliterated. It's an attack that destroys everything, since it was stated that non even a non corporeal being could survive it.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: Anime continuum is not connected to the movie continuums Mr. Beck. I'd think you'd know at least that much. What does Fusion Reborn have to do with the Broly movies? Nothing. And reducing yourself to flaming, and attempting to rehash old issues that I've already proven wrong because you know I just trashed your arguments. You asked for durability feats and I gave you them. Show me Broly flying next to or standing on a star. We know he can't survive in them, so how could he survive standing on them? SM characters use cosmic energy and not magic. It really helps if you understand a series before wanking the other side. Great job.

Since we aren't getting anywhere, Saturn drops her glaive, they both die, it's a stalemate.

Well obviously her OBD profile will have to be changed.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@ReiKai: He didn't ask for speed; he asked for durability feats and that's what I clearly showed him - scans for them standing on and flying next to a giant star without any problems at all. If Broly had been blasted by a kamehemahe from 2 SSJ2's the sun would have exploded, but it didn't. That means either they weren't SSJ2's or they were holding back. Which means an SSJ2 would have owned Broly's ass at full power. Heat of the sun wasn't hurting Broly? Then why was he literally cooked alive and vaporized inside of it? And his barrier was busted the instant the kamehameha hit it. Seems like you need to watch the movie again.

Still not proving he'd be able to tank her attack, which he wouldn't, because they do conceptual damage. Plus he'd die anyway if she dropped her glaive. I guess we're settling on stalemate since you won't budge on anything else.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: Anime isn't canon. Invalid information. The sun + the kamehameha killed Broly? You just destroyed half your argument if you think Broly stomped an SSJ2 Gohan in the movie. That meant Gohan either wasn't using his full power against Broly, or he held back as to not to destroy the sun when he blasted Broly into it. Either way it means that Broly is less powerful than an SSJ2, if Gohan was SSJ like he was shown to be.

As for proof. Here's the big giant star in the center of that cluster that SM and Stalights [weaker fighters than Saturn] flew too...

Here they cross the distance over to it almost instantly and are now standing on it's surface. They are completely fine.

Here they are flying right above the stars surface. The heat alone should have fried them all and yet they are fine.

And another. Flying right above the massive star. Completely fine.

Here they are standing on the surface in front of Galaxia castle which acts as the gateway to the Cauldron in the center. Again totally fine.

All of those fighters barring Sailor Moon are weaker than Saturn. If they can stand on the surface, and fly within close proximity to, a massive hyper giant star for a prolonged amount of time, then Saturn surviving the heat of the sun, or Broly's meager ki blasts would be cake. Thanks for playing. Concession accepted.

Post by Echelon9 (217 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » broly vs sailor saturn

@Platinum_94: Thanks yet again for the brilliant showcase of stupidity. Nappa with planet level durability? Broly defeating a star buster when he was clearly shown being owned by the Sun in the movie? That's it, you have officially proven yourself to the be the Glenn Beck of DBZ wankers. Her attacks deal conceptual damage that Broly can't block or defend against. And his measly planet level blasts aren't doing crap to her durability, if you go by scaling - you know scaling right? The thing that puts over 90% of DBZ's credibility - Saturn can withstand the surface temperatures of hyper giants, which on average can be 5 times hotter than the heat of the Sun.

This argument is pointless since we both know that if Saturn were to drop her glaive the match would end in a stalemate. But it's not like she would even need to do this with Broly being fodder and all.

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