Daniel_Newton (Level 20)

Hey guys, been busy lately writing for BagoGames. If you want to follow my stuff follow me on tumblr - http://goo.gl/q9bmnQ - I'd appreciate it :)
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Pages to Combine

Wiki pages I plan on combining, mostly because lots of pages would make more sense as sections on other pages. Having separate pages for things like student and school uniform is unnecessary. If a student appears in an episode wearing a school uniform, add the student concept page, if someone cosplays in a school uniform, add the cosplay concept page.

Lots of object pages in the wiki are WAY too general. Object pages should be specific to anime and manga, like Poké Ball, Dragon Balls, Senzu Bean, Zabimaru, Yui Hirasawa's Guitar, Saeko Busujima's Katana, Natsu Dragneel's Scarf and so on. Objects that are significant and are worth writing about (half of those pages don't exist, but they should). We shouldn't have pages for Glasses, Skirts and Cell Phones. These are things that will appear in countless episodes and can be read about in way better detail on wikipedia anyway. We don't need to know how many anime episodes glasses appear in, that's completely useless information.

I'm tired of seeing wiki pages that are clearly just image galleries or lists of characters. If you want to make a gallery or a list, that's exactly what the gallery and list functions on your profile page are for.

We should take a page or two from Comic Vine's book. If you look at the list of objects on that site, it's all very specific, it's clearly a wiki about comics. Anime Vice is a wiki about anime and manga, and it should look more like one.

1. Students
2. School Uniform

^ Move to the Student page. Mention on the cosplay page.

3. Gym Uniform

^ Move to the Student page. Mention on the cosplay page.

4. Nurses
5. Nurse Uniform

^ Move to the Nurse page. Mention on the cosplay page.

6. Yuri
7. Lesbian Characters

^ Combine with Yuri.

8. Yaoi
9. Gay Characters

^ Combine with Yaoi.

10. Transformation
11. Tropes And Transformations

^ Combine with Transformation.

12. Henshin

^ Combine with Transformation.

13. Ninjas
14. Female Ninjas

^ Move to the Ninja page. While female Ninjas may be considerably different in a lot of cases, there's no need for separate pages.

15. Christmas
16. Santa Costume

^ Move to the Christmas page. Mention on the cosplay page.

17. Bunny Girl
18. Bunny Suit

^ Move to the Bunny Girl page. Mention on the cosplay page.

19. Magic
20. Spellcasters

^ Move to the Magic page.

21. Japanese Festival
22. Yukata

^ Move to the Japanese Festival page.

takashichea moderator is online on May 28, 2012 at 12:35 a.m.

Daniel, I agree.

Please delete the scarf and robes object page. It's was way too general.

Edit:

A blog would help inform wiki editors to keep preventing the same mistakes.

Daniel_Newton moderator on May 28, 2012 at 12:55 a.m.

@takashichea: Thanks taka.

I'll delete them soon, I have that big list of clothing to go through.

Yeah, I'll post a blog of some sort soon too. The first step was making this list so I know which pages I'm moving and combining, I'm still figuring a lot of stuff out.

takashichea moderator is online on June 1, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.

What about Guns and Swords object pages? Are they too general?

I created the flower object page without thinking. Sorry about that.

Daniel_Newton moderator on June 1, 2012 at 5:32 p.m.

@takashichea: I'm still thinking all this stuff through. I've noticed we have pages for things like "Apple" and "Book" and so on, it's kind of silly. I definitely think our wiki would be better if it looked more like Comic Vine's.

I think Gun and Sword are really general and broad. There are countless different types of guns and swords. I say we get rid of those and combine things like Katana with Samurai and Shuriken and Kunai Knife with Ninja. We can have pages for specific weapons like "Saeko Busujima's Katana" and "Fleuve d'étoiles" and stuff. What do you think?

takashichea moderator is online on June 1, 2012 at 5:35 p.m.

@Daniel_Newton:

Yeah, we should get rid of them. I know you're busy. Do you want me to start up a blog and tell everyone not to add more general objects and have a thread similar to the New Concept Ideas page?

Proposed for Deletion

Don't Delete

  • Dowsing Pendulum - I couldn't find the name of Lyserg Diethel's weapon. We could rename it as Lyserg's Dowsing Pendulum.
  • Ikupasuy - It's a weapon used by Horohoro, and it's a real object in the Japanese Ainu culture which used to communicate with animals. We could rename it as Horohoro's Ikupasuy.
Daniel_Newton moderator on June 1, 2012 at 5:51 p.m.

@takashichea: No I'll post a blog about it soon, this kind of thing will need a lot of community input anyway. Leave comments here if you can think of more pages to combine or delete.

Waleson June 1, 2012 at 6:03 p.m.

While I agree with object specifics (like Natsu's scarf, Lucy's whip) certain general pages make sense like glasses since a lot of characters sport glasses. I understand that it really is a pointless way of going about things...I guess if its best for the site, then it's all good.

Daniel_Newton moderator on June 1, 2012 at 6:17 p.m.

@Wales said:

While I agree with object specifics (like Natsu's scarf, Lucy's whip) certain general pages make sense like glasses since a lot of characters sport glasses. I understand that it really is a pointless way of going about things...I guess if its best for the site, then it's all good.

A lot of characters do indeed wear glasses, but it's like I said, if you're interested in a huge-ass list of characters who wear glasses then just make a list. It's not very useful or interesting as an actual wiki page, you know?

It's the same reason I deleted pages like pink hair colour. Sure, lots of characters have pink hair, but we don't need a wiki page about it.

takashichea moderator is online on June 1, 2012 at 6:27 p.m.

Since we have Basketball, Volleyball, and Soccer concepts due to sport animes, the objects that come with it like Baseball Bat can be deleted because it's already included.

Edit:

Or we can combine all the different sports into one concept page, Sports.

More Deletion: Binoculars, Wheelchair (b/c we have Disability), Candle, Clock, Coffee, Meat, #

Waleson June 1, 2012 at 6:29 p.m.

Upon thinking about it, you're right. It just becomes tedious. Especially when one tries to fit ALL objects they can think of on the pages. It is annoying.

Daniel_Newton moderator on June 1, 2012 at 6:53 p.m.

@Wales: Yeah, users have started adding individual items of clothing like skirts and stuff, it won't be long before we have a socks page at this rate.

It's not just object pages either, lots of concept pages are just as silly. Did you know we had an "eating" page. Not specific in any way, just... eating. The father, mother, brothers and sisters concepts are pretty pointless too. It ends up making the episode and volume pages pretty crazy.

Waleson June 1, 2012 at 7:28 p.m.

Yeah, I knew about eating since I know obscurefan is the one who made it. Regardless, when you add things like underwear and shoes, it is getting redundant so this is the best direction we can go in.

FoxxFireArt moderator on June 1, 2012 at 8:51 p.m.

@takashichea: @Daniel_Newton:

I don't see why this discussion is even taking place here. It's not as if we have any staff to make these judgement calls on what should be removed. Why is one person making these decisions on these changes to begin with. I disagree with much of this list. This should be a discussion among the mods.

Some objects have standings in outside of their based concepts. For example. Meat is a popular icon of the Shonen series. You'll often see people eating a piece of meat off the bone. Coffee and Tea are also alright. Characters will frequently go out to drink coffee.

The School Uniform is a major icon of manga and anime. Student is a concept and the uniform is an object. They are in separate sections of the wiki and don't overlap.

Why remove Christmas. It's a holiday that's used in series as an event.

Books play a big role in series such as READ OR DIE. They are the major weapon of the main character.

Rice is fine since it's a major part of Japanese society. It also ties into specialty confection. Cake is also big. Especially Christmas Cakes. Those are especially popular in Japan.

Cameras and Video Cameras play a role in series, and Bombs are frequent story tools in drama and action.

I seen no problem with the female ninja page. They are a popular icon in manga and anime.

Yuri is a genre, like Shonen and Seinen. Lesbian Characters shouldn't be combined with that. Just because a character is a lesbian doesn't mean they are in a Yuri series. The same thing for Yaoi. These are genres.

Yukatas shouldn't be combined with festivals, because yukatas aren't only just worn at festivals. They are just traditional for festivals. They are worn at a variety of places, but are also not the same thing as Kimonos.

Daniel_Newton moderator on June 1, 2012 at 10:04 p.m.

@FoxxFireArt said:

I don't see why this discussion is even taking place here. It's not as if we have any staff to make these judgement calls on what should be removed.

Part of our job is to manage the wiki, besides, all the staff concerned with the wiki before are gone anyway.

Why is one person making these decisions on these changes to begin with. I disagree with much of this list. This should be a discussion among the mods.

Dude, I'm not. I just started a list. If you read the comments you'd realise I've been thinking about all this stuff for a long time and I'll be making blog posts and stuff before doing anything. This is something we need community awareness and feedback on.

Some objects have standings in outside of their based concepts. For example. Meat is a popular icon of the Shonen series. You'll often see people eating a piece of meat off the bone. Coffee and Tea are also alright. Characters will frequently go out to drink coffee.

Okay, so here's the problem with that. Yes, meat, tea and coffee appear a lot in anime and manga... so what? How much exactly can you write about that? Does anyone care that much? Is it actually relevant information. Not really, no. Anyone who knows the meat on a bone thing is an "icon" knows that already. We don't need a page about it. "Meat is a favorite food of the shonen manga and anime heroes." ...can you honestly not see how redundant that is?

Coffee and tea also appears in western television all the time. It's not important.

The School Uniform is a major icon of manga and anime. Student is a concept and the uniform is an object. They are in separate sections of the wiki and don't overlap.

Yes but they don't need to be separate, it serves no real purpose. There's no reason why there can't just be a School Uniform section on the Student page. Look at the object list on Comic Vine, it's all specific objects. Like Captain America's Shield and Web Shooters and Lasso of Truth and so on. You won't find Coffee and Tea in their wiki, because stuff like that isn't important.

Why remove Christmas. It's a holiday that's used in series as an event.

...I never said we should remove Christmas.

Books play a big role in series such as READ OR DIE. They are the major weapon of the main character.

Rice is fine since it's a major part of Japanese society. It also ties into specialty confection. Cake is also big. Especially Christmas Cakes. Those are especially popular in Japan.

Cameras and Video Cameras play a role in series, and Bombs are frequent story tools in drama and action.

You could say the same for comics. Does Comic Vine have generic pages for cameras and bombs and cake? Nope. Why? Because that stuff's too general.

I seen no problem with the female ninja page. They are a popular icon in manga and anime.

They are, but again, there's no need for ninja and female ninja to be separate. Any episode or chapter with the female ninja concept attached should by default have the ninja concept attached anyway, so it's pretty pointless to have them separate.

Yuri is a genre, like Shonen and Seinen. Lesbian Characters shouldn't be combined with that. Just because a character is a lesbian doesn't mean they are in a Yuri series. The same thing for Yaoi. These are genres.

Genres shouldn't even be listed as concepts! The only reason I don't make a point of that is because the genre pages themselves don't link to editable wiki pages, just lists of anime and manga in that genre, so if they weren't in the wiki as concepts there would be nowhere to write about them.

But whether you consider the yuri page a genre or a concept is pretty irrelevant anyway. Yuri is love between women, so "lesbian characters" should be the characters attached to the yuri page in the first place.

Yukatas shouldn't be combined with festivals, because yukatas aren't only just worn at festivals. They are just traditional for festivals. They are worn at a variety of places, but are also not the same thing as Kimonos.

Then add a Yukata section to any other pages about festivals or whenever else they're worn. I know Yukatas aren't exclusively worn at Japanese festivals.

The Point

The point I'm trying to make, with object pages specifically, is that they should be specific things to anime and manga. Not general things you can read about in better detail on wikipedia or something. We shouldn't have pages about apples and books and skirts and plate armor. If you want to read about plate armor and the history of plate armor and the different types of plate armor, go to wikipedia. We should have pages about Elina's armor in Queen's Blade. Goku's Nimbus cloud in Dragon Ball.

The reason users add silly pages like a page about skirts or apples is because of the example set by the pages already there. I'm tired of our wiki being so scattered and aimless and largely pointless. It should be more focused.

takashichea moderator is online on June 1, 2012 at 10:56 p.m.

@FoxxFireArt:

They don't have a specific name for the books they used as weapons in Read or Die? Maybe, we could just make a concept page for Read or Die books for that franchise.

Sorry for proposing the rice object page for deletion. I think the other food objects should go except for the culturally significant ones like Octopus Balls or Castella.

Daniel has a blog where we can all talk as a community.

Destinyheroknighton June 1, 2012 at 11:02 p.m.

Shoot, I just got done making default images for those pages. I do agree with you

takashichea moderator is online on June 1, 2012 at 11:15 p.m.

@Destinyheroknight:

Don't worry, your Katana page will stay. Sword is just too broad.

Awesome job!
Awesome job!
Daniel_Newton moderator on June 1, 2012 at 11:23 p.m.

@takashichea: @Destinyheroknight: It's still pretty broad, so I'd probably move katana to the samurai page. Likewise, I'd make shuriken and kunai knife sections on the ninja page.

Specific katanas, like the double-edged katana in High School of the Dead or the special katana Junko used in the last episode of Demon King Daimao would get their own pages.

sora_thekey moderator on June 2, 2012 at 11:12 a.m.

I agree with most of this list for the exception of no. 2, 3, 4, 24 & 26.

I don't think that School Uniform should be combined with Student. I do think that School Swimsuit and Gym Uniform should be combined with School Uniform since those two outfits are part of the school attire.

As for Spellcaster and Yukata, I don't think that combing things with events (Japanese Festival) or "people" with concepts (Magic) would be right since they deserve their own page.

On another note, there are a lot of good suggestions in the comments above on pages that should or shouldn't be on the AV wiki. I like that pages like Book, Sword, and other general pages are being discussed into more specific pages like Katana, Hinata-sou Tenant Book, Sexy Foxy (ship), etc. Even so, I do agree with on this one... this discussion would have probably been better among Mods first before asking for a general opinion.

Daniel_Newton moderator on June 2, 2012 at 12:15 p.m.

@sora_thekey said:

I don't think that School Uniform should be combined with Student. I do think that School Swimsuit and Gym Uniform should be combined with School Uniform since those two outfits are part of the school attire.

I don't really see how that's a better option. If anything that seems worse than having them separate. Why have "student" and "student attire"? Just write about them on the student page, it makes more sense.

As for Spellcaster and Yukata, I don't think that combing things with events (Japanese Festival) or "people" with concepts (Magic) would be right since they deserve their own page.

Weird, nobody else has disagreed with combining spellcaster with magic. It seems logical to put magic-using characters on the magic page, why bother splitting them off? That seemed like one of the more obvious combinations to me.

It's less about actually combining Yukata with Japanese Festival as much as just talking about what people wear at Festivals on the Festival page. That's what I'm aiming for really, uniforms and general clothing don't need to be separate from the concepts they belong to. Any clothing often seen in cosplay, like school uniforms, maid outfits and so on should also be mentioned on the cosplay page.

On another note, there are a lot of good suggestions in the comments above on pages that should or shouldn't be on the AV wiki. I like that pages like Book, Sword, and other general pages are being discussed into more specific pages like Katana, Hinata-sou Tenant Book, Sexy Foxy (ship), etc. Even so, I do agree with FoxxFireArt on this one... this discussion would have probably been better among Mods first before asking for a general opinion.

I wanted to get the entire community involved rather than just the mods, after all, lots of the big wiki editors aren't mods, so I didn't want to leave them out.

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