Boxer_Joe (Level 10)

“Fighting is what I do, alright? It's all I was ever good at and I'm still good at it - I'm Boxer Joe, the guy who fights! That's what I am.”
followed by
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Luffy vs Sauske

In character? Sasuke cuts Luffy in half, or uses a genjutsu, sets him on fire or blitzs him, I mean sasuke is pretty much always bloodlusted in shipuuden lol.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Luffy vs Sauske

Luffy blows himself into the air (In which he looks at the ground) uses a gear third axe and drops his leg on Sasuke crushing him, since the raw force was able to bust an island I doubt Sasuke using the snake or susanoo will help, or Luffy can blitz him. Or simple haki.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

RPG » The Vice Awards( Official)

Good, posted.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

RPG » COV Round (1): (Newdeath Vs Boxer Joe)

Joe smiled at Newdeath's comment "Overconfident? No, just sure, you say doing the impossible is something you do? Well news for you Beating the impossible is sometihng I do. I am scared to lose, but I will remove that fear, I wont lose, I know that. But now you say I should have remained a boxer huh? Well I have no clue what yer talkin 'bout sonny, since I am a boxer, and I always will be. You are a big boy, a boy who has too many toys that are to big for his age, me however I am a man and I have weapons, my fist. They are all I need here, the only thing killing me is boredom, now are you gonna attack me or stay there sucking wind?" Joes said with a sly grin and getting into boxer stance "So we both refuse to lose, well that's gonna be a problem, for you anyway, see unlike you I never lost, 70 plus years of wins, and that ain't gonna stop now!" however before Joe could go on the sky darkened somewhat as Newdeath was silent. In an instant Newdeath used the combined capabilities of the ND-N.S. and his Anti-Energy Particles for his plan. In an instant Newdeath used the ND-N.S. to create a path into Boxer Joe's soul. Without a second to spare he sent an army of highly charged anti-energy particles. Anti-Energy particles could absorb or negate any type of energy. Ki, Cosmic Energy, anything. Newdeath aimed to negate enough of Joe's ki to leaving him in a comatose perhaps even a vegetative state. In terms of energy absorbing and negating, the anti-energy particles were absolute in power. Removing enough of Joe's life-force, especially from his soul, is bound to cause some nasty effects. But Newdeath wasn't done there. The intellectual tinkerer used a new invention of his called the ND Matrix. He didn't reveal much of it. He created a supermassive black hole's intense gravitational field around Boxer Joe. The gravitational field could easily rip Joe into subatomic particles. The gravitational field was in fact being used to pull Joe's atoms apart, causing an unimaginable amount of pain. The damage Joe's body would sustain is unbearable. If not stopped then the gravitational field could likely rip Joe's atoms apart, effectively killing him. Boxer Joe was in a rather uncomfortable situation. The gravitational field also made any means of escape or physical resistance through sheer willpower nearly impossible due to the immense raw power of the black hole. The gravity would trap Boxer Joe on the ground and physical resistance would be futile, atoms like weak-points in the body cannot be strengthened through any amount of training, even with ki. And the possibilities of using ki will verge on impossible as the anti-energy particles  would instantly negate or absorb them.      
Joe closed his eyes again and thought to himself "Okay, calm down, I don't need chi to win, I need the moment, focus. Just lead Newdeath right on in...." the moment the gravitiy field supposedly warped around joe, there was nothing inside it, where did Joe go? over Newdeath's head, a large shadow appeared, it was Joe, his back facing Newdeath and armr and legs spread like he was on a soft bed, his eyes closed and he was smiiling. "Ahh, it seems the wind grew very strong today, jsut for that instance, was god looking out for me? Mabey, or perhaps I just have the luck of a cat, or nine lives, that's it I lived the moment, it must still be my moment, he can't beat me now, he-" at that moment Joe plummeted into the ground, the force of the gravity was still much, plus falling from that height, the strong gust of wind may have helped him escape the gravity, but the fall was still pretty painful seeing as how Joe landed on his head. As Joe struggled to his feet his vision was blury, it seemed like there were three Newdeaths,Joe mumbled to himself "Right....! Knew it wouldn't be that easy! Not a Disney film...!" Joe looked over a few feet next to him at a imaginari floating circle of moments, Joe thought to himself "Crap, don't lose the moment! Capture it!" Joe dashed at the spot and tackled the imaginary sphere and cradled it in his arms and put it in his body "Ahh, close, but I got it now.... Regain focus...!" Joe Put his hands together and closed his eyes "Ahh, the pain form my limbs is ging away, need to be satified some more? Okay, I got a plan, hush now..." Joe put his arms down, he was not using a defense anymore,he stood vulnerable and strong "You can't beat me, and I can't kill you, at this moment I know a way to win though, without hurting you at all..."  with his left hand Joe once again used the mach punch from across Newdeath and the unbreakable trion ring to create a powerful vibration wave, not at Newdeath's earth again but at his feet, the vibrations would slide Newdeath out of the ring at high speeds
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

RPG » The Vice Awards( Official)

@Mesamia: Thanks! 
@Newdeath:  Working on another epic post now, gonna be another long one.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » team kyo vs the monster trio

 That had to be one of the biggest docuhbag comments here next to Jagi, come on guys now you are all just getting hostile, calm down a little, you guys are starting to get personal, prove your point that's all you need to do, don't be little kids and try to get these sneak shots in.
 I agree they are a bit harsh but maybe if you took the time to get a scan or two they wouldn't I mean not everyone has read One Piece to the last detail and honestly the way you say some feats makes it sound a bit over-dramatic, so you can't fully blame them, also keep in mind you guys have been going at it for hours, there has been nothing but One Piece battles so people are just a little tired of it.
Willy I must say I am more than a bit dissapointed, you should be setting an example and instead you are being a jerk, and this would not be the first time on here you have been more than annoying to some of the users. Regardless of how smart you think you are or how good you think you are at debating trying to be a dick does not suit you, very few people can pull that off (Vance Astro from comicvine is one of them) but not you, try finding a better way, when you make yourself sound like a douch you take away from your arguments, come on now you were just annoyed with Jagi a few hours ago now you are not being too much different in terms of what you say.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

RPG » COV Round (1): (Newdeath Vs Boxer Joe)

Joe stood in place,his hand still raised on the side of Newdeath's right ear as the blood driped down from his arm flesh, Joe smiled as he listened to Newdeath's words, "That actually hurt. You won't even begin to believe what you did to my brain with that attack. But this is no wakeup call for me Joe. No. My wakeup call already happened, long before this." Joe could not help but chuckle as he spoke "What am I thinking you guys are way out of my league, what human can resist the shockwave that would tear apart metal jets?! But hey I mangaed, I always do, like I am now, you said before that you wont kill be but you will defeat me? Funny I was thinking that I wasn't going to beat you, I was going to kill you, because defeating me without killing me is impossible to even a man such as yourself.." but soon after Newdeath  used his Brain Burrowers to send a powerful mental assault targeting Boxer Joe's mind. This attack would deliver quite the amount of concussive force to Joe's mind. It would completely knock Joe unconscious.    Newdeath did not stop there. He secretly had his Brain Burrowers undergo a procedure with True Trion. This True Trion mace was indestructible. With enough force it can literally knock Joe's head off his body. Newdeath had his Brain Burrowers hit Joe at speeds far beyond his challenger's reaction time or rate of thought. They hit had enough physical force to knock Joe unconscious just in case the mental assault somehow did not work.     
Joe closed his eye the moment the mental attack hit, everything was white again a bird that was flying high in the sky stopped a swooped down on a pole above the stadium, another flew to the stands on the stairs, then a stray dog, then some ants. they were all inside this white world Joe was in, Newdeath was in front of Joe also nothing more than a white figure Joe thought to himself "Don't lose the moment Joe,embrace the moment this is the day I lived my whole life for. All I am, all I have been, all for this moment, all for this match." Joe spread out his arms with a smile "Newdeath,a monster, a god, a tyrant? No, that is crazy sci fi stuff, he is only a man, no a boy, not even, he is a mad dog, but a powerful one. I can do this, I can take him down!" Joe felt the animals' presence "Ah, came to watch did you? The birds, the ants, the dog, all you came to see me take down my prey as you did yours? How the bird takes donw the worm, how the dog takes out anyone who threatens it, how the ants take on anything they consider food for their queen? Watch then....Whatch me take down my prey, to feed my children, my fist, watch me take down my prey because he threatens me, my title, watch me take donw my prey for my queen, my fighting spirit. I fell all of you guys, all the animals, all the worry, all the hate,the sorrow, the anticipation from the audiance, I fell it all so much it burns. But it's a good burn. Everyone, even you Newdeath, if you still think I'm the underdog here, then you haven't felt what I felt, this is MY moment, feel it!" Joe put his hands together as if in prayer as he continued to think "Look here Newdeath, only a few inches in front of me, try not to blink, can you see it?" A blue ball of energy formed "It's ki, whats inside, Susan,she taught me that kind of stuff, she really believed in it, kinda like Yu yu hakuaho or Dragonball Z right? Ki manipulation and all that junk? I thought it was just a bunch of nonesense, still do, but it is a moment. It's like an illusion , but it is just an illusion, how cool would it be if I could do stuff like that? I would be unstoppable. Martial arts, all about willpower. Ah yes now I see it, that spear, without even looking, without opening my eyes I can see it, it's like slow motion. The spear, it's faster than me, I know that but I can compensate.... There it is..."  As the spear was an inch from Joe's body, it vanished the apear went flying out of the stadium as Joe was simply a few feet to the side, still in the same position with his eyes closed and hands together. as he spoke "Not a monster, nor a god just a boy..."  Joe jumped a whole 10 feet in the air and like a smooth wave he moved his hands as if he was circling ki around his body, the moment he did that the wind blew calmly letting Joe to the ground and taking the leaves off the trees, it was like Joe shot out a powerful wind-like wave or shockwave. 
Joe opened his eyes, they were calm and kind, but strong, his mask was off, his face all of the sudden seemed like it had almost no wrinkles his face was clean, and made his bright blue eyes shine, the blood on his hands and arm and his leg, are stoppoed it was no longer bleeding and Joe could no longer feel the pain Joe smile as he spoke to Newdeath in a calm confident voice "What's inside, ki. Inner essence exsternalized...Ki...Signature. A way of focusing the moment.. What I just did with the wind, was it me firing ki? Making it do that with some sort of hidden power I had locked inside? Magic? No, it was a focus, a HARD focus. Live the moment shape it, pinpoint focus. It was just the wind, events flow. The wind would have blown regardless, just like how I dodged the attack, it was no super speed, I was simply already out of the way. So I made the moment mine. Let the moment flow over me, through me... Now I get it, now I see I was never a fast learner but every moment in life counts, the moment you get married to even the moment you order a fast food hamburger. But what you do with that moment....That's what counts most of all...I see you clearly now Newdeath, I was scared once, but no more, there is no reason, I saw you and your attacks coming, no I felt them coming, I can't lose now, before I thought it was the power difference but I was wrong, it's because this is a dance, and you were dancing a different one than me and the rest of the class all I needed to do was learn the steps, and now I mastered them, I wont lose rhythm." Joe took in a deep breath, his muscled appeard to broaden and get tighter,bigger "Newdeath, I've got your number. There's no more fear to be had here. Do the smart thing walk away or be defeated. I will keep fighting for myself, for you, for Susan for all the others, fight for the living and the dead because sometimes, sometimes, it's the right freaking thing to do...! SImply let the events unfold and flow with them. The only thing that matters now is that I got the big guns now Newdeath, how's that for a moment eh? Out goes the bad, in comes the good, ladies and gentle menboys and girls, can you all say "Dead meat?" yes you can, and you are the dead meat Newdeath, or whatever you want to be, but you are not winning this not by a long shot.You move chessmaster, but believe when I say you've been checkmate." Joe said with his arms by his sides and smiling at Newdeath, Joe had the upmost confidence in his eyes as if Newdeath's mentle attack awakwned sometihng inside of him.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

RPG » COV Round (1): (Newdeath Vs Boxer Joe)

Joe had done the move he wanted to for so long he knew it did not work the moment he punched Newdeath, no, he knew it wouldn't work even before he did it, so why would Joe injure his hand so badly on an attack that he knew wouldn't even work? Joe was a believer that even a cornered rat would bite the cat, however Joe would only be comparing his own life to that of a rat, besides no matter how hard it tries, a rat can never beat a lion and that is exactly what Newdeath was, a lion roaring over and toying with t he rat until it sinks it's giant fangs into the rat killing it instantly from the size and force alone. However to Joe none of that mattered, at the moment he had already won, for years he wanted to surpass human exspectations he wanted to prove a human who put enough work in could break science, he never really did like those with powers or super suits which is why he lost respect for Mekix when he got his powers despite not knowing the reason behind it. Joe wanted to surpass science itself and literaly do the impossible, and he succeded by miles and it only took 86 years the lifespan of a normal human, his whole boxing career, 782 stitches, 129 broken bones, 592 drops of blood, the loss of his dad, the loss of his boxing school, the loss of his best student,some sanity, 6 severe burns, 2 concussions, 1 tooth, 1 kidney, torn muscles, and now his hand. Joe looked down at his left hand which he honetsly could not feel anymore and no wounder, all of his fingers were twisted like silly straws, bone sticking out from most of them as shart at a blade, his finger nails destroyed, the tendons and bone could be seen in his palm, and his hand was drenched in blood and pouring on to the floor like a school water fountain as his boxing tape was beautifly colored red, like magical paint. Joe could not help but chuckle at this, it was ironic even though Joe was right handed, it is siad that a boxer's left hand is as important as his right, it is used for the jabs to get the opponent weak befor knocking them out with the right hand. But Joe did not see it as a loss because his hand was still there, sure it was messed up but it was there and until it was gone he would keep using because if a boxer does not use his fist then he can not be called a boxer, beesides Joe was used to fighting professional matches with a broken hand or two and coming out on top, the pain was simply his fist cheering. But there was no pain now, there was just blood, this was his fist crying, but why? He punched at the speed of sound? It was because he had not reached his peak yet, he knew he could go further much futher! He looked at Newdeath who In under 1/5 a microsecond unleashed a devastating thunderclap. The thunderclap had a ridiculous amount of physical force, enough to literally shatter every bone in Boxer Joe's body to dust. But that wasn't the deadly chessmaster's intention, by using the capabilities of the Brain Burrowers and the ND-N.S., Newdeath reduced the amount of kinetic energy in the powerful shock-wave, it was precisely the right amount required to knock Joe unconscious with the overwhelming physical force.  The.  entire attack was unleashed well under the speed of thought    
However despite this Joe stood there with a puzzled look on his face, the attack was like slow motion still Joe muttered at Newdeath "I know your fist are not cheering, they must be crying because you too have not reached your potential, your peak. Are we worthy of out fist, no at this moment we are not but I soon will be...." The shockwave was getting closer, why was he not blown away yet, was this the time where he was supposed the rember every event in his life? His first fight, his first lesson, his first beating, his first love, first kiss, losing his virginity? It was so warm, too comforting for it to be a dangerous attack, was god having mercy on him? Joe hoped not, he wanted the pain so he could walk out with a new scar to brag about, everyday Joe wanted a scar, if he did not get one that only meant he did not fight or train hard enough, it was never because of his opponent. The blast was taking foever, Joe closed his eyes, he could not moves anything but he mouth and eyes and even that seemed slow. He remebered back at his dojo, his trainer, no, his second father taught him everything there was to know abour boxing. 

70 years ago: Brooklyn NewYork

 In Brooklyn New York, Joe old home, right in the middle of it was Joe's Gym, and there ws Joe Jam as always for the past 12 years punching away at a punching bag while his trainer Joe Schnider, watched his from behind the ropes of the ring. Joe Jam was 16 now, he had beeing boxing since he was was 4 years old when his father gave him his first lesson that christmas morning, and he had a natural talent for it, there was not a day that went by that Joe did not go there and trained until his fist bled and his muscles sore. Joe's trainer got out some Root beer for them both and handed one to Joe, his trainer's face was pink from the heat, he was so old that shock or surprised no longer registered in his body, his skin was so pale that if you shined a flash light on his hand you would be able to see all the viens and whatnot inside his hand. He growled "So Joe tell me, whats wrong? You haven't been yoursefl, I mean I know you like to train hard but now it seems like you are trying to vent out more anger than anything." "Joe Jam looked up at his trainer with a sigh "Well, it's that match from last week, with Micheal Porario and David Bower, those two kids are good. But Micheal still dominated with no mercy...!" Joe's trainer raised an eyebrow "So? Micheal is on out team, and that was a good match." Joe Jam took a sip of his soda "I know but the thing is Micheal, he's different, don't ask me how he just is. I think he might even be a genius yeah." Joe's trainer smirked a bit "Well, sure, he's smart 'n' all... But he's, like, so quiet....He's always reading or daydreaming.... How's a guy like that wind up scaring a guy like you?! Shouldn't it be the other way around?" Joe blinked for a few seconds and then took another gulp of soda and looked up at the ceiling, the worn out fan that didn't help at all spinning above him " I don't think he feels. At least not the same way we do. Ever see him happy? Sad? angry, anything? Even after winning a big match? It's like he has no passion for boxing, he acts, but he does so perfectly, that is what scares me the most." Joe's trainer pated joe on the shoulder and smiled brigthly, his eyes almost closed as he spoke in an old calm voice "How would you become stronger? Try to push past your limits, you seek strength by way of forfeiture. Hmm... Is strength so important does it mean so much to you that you would betray who you are, and then what? Tell me Jow who is stronger than he who knows himself?  How can there be strength without self-awarness? There cannot. Self awarness makes us real, find out what makes you real and you will find true strength." Joe's trainer got up and went into the back closet, after a few minutes of searching he came back out with a long black whip smiling "Joe, did you know a simple whip can create a sonic boom? But here is the funny thing, the sonic boom is not created when the whip strikes but rather when the whip is pulled back." His trainer demonstrated, the whipe lashed out like a cobra attacking it's prey, his trainer then pulled back and a loud "CRACK" could be heard "That Joe, was the sonic boom, not as impressive as you might have though but a sonic boom is only as big as the person creating it. A whip has a thousand joints which is why it can move this free the sonic boom happens at the recoil, but a human arm does not, the strongest punch in the world, too strong to block and too fast for any human to dodge the mach punch, an old man can ream right? hahahaha. But remember Joe, the still waters will always triumpth over the raging currents..." Those words echoed in Joe's mind. 

Present time, Newdeath vs Boxer Joe

 Joe opened his eys again with a bright smile "Like still water, a free whip, it's strength comes from it's limits, from pullling back not moving forward, I had only beein moving forward for my whole life. For thee sake of boxing and my bride, I will do it, I will look past myself break every limit, my fist are not cheering, I can do better." The blast was now only inches from Joe's face "BOOM!!!" smoke clouded the air and slowly dissappeared, Joe was standing there with his leg out, he had kicked the blast with less power than it had by using the chockwave of his sonic kick to not over power that attack but negate it instead. "It is said that when two boxer's of equal power step into the ring, the one who wins is the one most hungry for victory, so tell me Newdeathh ow hungry are you, because I am absolutly starving...! What does you beast, your inner beast look like? I know I'm not as strong as you, no, not even close, but I want this more!" Joe's leg was messed up almost as much as his left hand, but Joe ran anyway leaving a trail of blood behind him Joe brok his limit this time with his right fist he used a simple straight  boxing jab at Newdeath as Joe thought to himself "To use this strike you move past the point of no return...You strike like your whole life depends on it! Needless to say,you must be prepared to lose everything you hold dear,this srtike is the last thing you will do with faith and conviction. If one wishes to break the sound barrier, there is a price to pay. To resist  the shockwave with his bare hands...This is what happens when humans break the sound barrier...." Joe launched a punch at  761.2 mph 
   The sonic boom was 10x bigger than Joe's whole body, the entire arean shook, the birds from outside flew away, the sound echoed, this punch was like still water, it was not so much meant to actualy hurt Newdeath as it was to send the sound of the sonic boom directly into his brain to cause deafness and paralize him. All the skin and muscle on Joes arm were gone, nothing more than cracked bone and hanging globs of flesh, several of his fingers were snapped in half his hand was destroyed the pain was out of this world, Joe appreaciated that, he had won, he had surpassed the limits, he surpassed himself.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

RPG » COV Round (1): (Newdeath Vs Boxer Joe)

As Joe landed his punch he made a sly smile as if he had done some damage, however it quickly dissappeared due to Newdeath not even flinching, at that moment Joe was about to move back but at the speed of light Newdeath used a Muay Thai style uppercut elbow, this would be more than enough to knock out Joe, however Joe had used his precognition to see what was coming however this would not be nearly enough to dodge the blow, so using his adrenaline to it's max, Joe moved his neck up and moved back upon impact, however the force still sliced his chin to the bone, Jow was only able to dodge it because he knew what was coming and knew the best way to counter, he had fought light speed beings before, and thanks to being able to see what was happening he was able to barley cut the damage in half, he still was not able to see the actual attack though, simply knew where to move. Joe smiled as he wiped the fountain of blood from his chin, the deep gash went from his chin tip to the begining of his neck, almost into his adam's apple. Joe got back into defensive position and spoke in his cocky tone: "That all you got old man? C'mon you're makingus look bad, I'm a boxer not a kitten, step it up lunch box! No need to hold back!" as he circled around Newdeath as fast as he could he then threw a straight right punch at the back of Newdeath's head, but it was a fient, Joe then rushed to Newdeath's front and threw another straight that appeared to be going right at Newdeath's nose but instead went past him to the side of his head, Joe then used The Rabbit Punch, an illegal boxing move, the Rabbit Punch is a blow to the neck or to the base of the skull. It is considered especially dangerous because it can damage the cervical vertebrae and subsequently the spinal cord, which may lead to serious spinal cord injury or even  death.    Because this is a potentially fatal blow, the rabbit punch is illegal in boxing,MMA, and many other combat sports that involve striking , except in Vale Tudo. The punch's name is derived from the use of the technique by Hunters to kill rabbits with a quick, sharp strike to the back of the head, for instance using a blunt object such as a metal pipe.     Joe was once hit by this move and never used it, even in street fights but this guy deserved it, however this attack was not a simple punch on it's own, before then punch hit, a small "BOOM" could be heard, Joe had punched at 340.29 m/s, Joe had done the forbidden move, he had punched at the speed of sound.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

RPG » An unlikely temporary alliance (Kurohige VS. Kimiko) O.O.C

Really, wow that's nice, I never knew that sorry, but good to see a friend like that on here who cares that much, thats what we need more of here on the vice.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » who can beat Kami Tenchi?

@willyvereb said:

"I ask it again. Kami Tenchi is omnipotent based on what? Being stronger than everyone doesn't automatically make you omnipotent. With that reasoning End of GT Goku is omnipotent. It just makes Kami Tenchi a powerful multiversal entity."

Umm look at the videos a few pages back, Kami Tenchi is NOT Tenchi Masaki, he is that bright gold entity in the shape of Tenchi who helped him, Kami Tenchi isthe Creator Masaki Kajishima    self inserted into the anime, in fact in later manga by a different author the cast almost killed him because he was not the original creator. The chousen are Omni everything as said in the anime yet there was a being higher than them that they did not know about that was because that higher being was Masaki Kajishima. And no the guys everyone listed can not beat him, only a few people like TOAA or zy something (Hitsu should know) can have a chance. Even then one ONmi potent can't kill another lol,  besides since he can break the 4th wall.... And As for Tenchi himself, the Light Hawk wings protect him from anything and negate anything to zero (Yes they protect him from reality warping.     
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » What is the strongest Dragon Ball character that Naruto can beat?

Iron man had more of a chance than Naruto ever will lol, but I guess Oolong or the OX King, Maybe a few Red Ribbons, possibly even a few androids (Not Arale)
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Off-Topic » The worlds, fastest and strongest punch.

    @hitsusatsu11 said:
"Hmmm  I always thought of it as MA's punched explode more on contact, for breaking boards and the like.  Where was boxing punches apply different follow through to rattle the brain in the head of opponents.    I think it comes down to individual power and speed.  "

Very true indeed, I always did think boxing had the faster punches but I did watch Bruce Lee punch and that was incredible! 
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Off-Topic » The worlds, fastest and strongest punch.

Now there has been many arguments going on about who really is the fastest/strongest puncher, Wing Chun/Bruce lee or Boxing, first off here is the arguments for both sides: 
To explore the debate more fully, the answer gives the perspective of both a Western boxer and a Wing Chun practitioner to allow the reader to exercise their own judgement form their own conclusions. It is the height of ignorance to believe anything that anyone says without applying some critical thinking.
The Boxing Perspective
A boxing jab is likely to be the fastest punch for a number of reasons:

1. It had minimal transfer of bodyweight; as the kinetic chain does not draw from the ground as much as more committed punches there is less time taken from the initiation of the movement to the punch landing.
2. It is thrown in a relaxed manner - typical of boxing punches, the jab is thrown without any muscle tension, which if present inhibits the contraction of the tricep (which straightens the arm) and internal rotation of the humerus (which rotates the arm to bring the fist into a horizontal plane) and reduces the force of the punch.
3. Boxers are very well-conditioned athletes; as boxing training develops physical attributes to a far greater extent than in many traditional martial arts in the 21st century, the boxer is likely to have far more raw power and speed at his disposal than the average person.
4. By virtue of their "alive" training methods, boxers more often than not have superior strategy in a fight than traditional martial artists who shy away from heavy sparring and attribute training, and certainly of the average man. The improved timing will therefore give the boxer an edge as it will be harder for his opponent to anticipate and defend against the punch.

Wing Chun is often suggested as a "fast" punching art as it too uses straight punches thrown without unnecessary muscle tension. However, the average practitioner is not likely to have the high levels of power and speed developed from the same sort of intense training as boxers, nor are they likely to have developed the same level of timing mentioned as they do not use very much sparring, if at all, in their training.

The Wing Chun Perspective

1. Wing Chun punching is never committed, and it doesn't generate power by muscular power... look for the one inch punch that is actually a normal Wing Chun punch punched from just one inch.

2. A boxing jab is not simple to explain.. but when compared to the Wing Chun punch the boxing punch is much simpler to explain, because in Wing Chun there are internal aspects to the punch like focusing one's thought and body mass to a point and the punch is not relaxed then tensed on impact but its relaxed even upon impact.
note: when i say body mass that doesn't mean that you have to move any part of your body but that will take a book to explain

3. Although Wing Chun is not a sport like boxing and is not safe to spar still not all lineages have no sparring like what is mentioned above.

4. A Wing Chun practitioner does not have the muscular endurance of a boxer for sure nor the muscular power of a boxer, but hey Wing Chun uses nearly no muscle even when pushing someone so to a Wing Chun practitioner the the heavy workout of a boxer doesn't really help they way you can develop strength and power, the Wing Chun way to develop speed and power can last even at old age when muscles are weak but to a boxer its not the same.

It's believed that Bruce Lee's speed was one of the fastest ever and his punch was a Wing Chun punch.
The world record for the fastest punching is held by a Wing Chun practitioner.
Boxing Counterpoint 1
In the interests of productive debate one hopes that the Wing Chun practitoner would not be averse to some criticism of his above points. Allow me to take each point in turn and offer some counter-argument.
"1. Wing Chun punching is never committed, and it doesn't generate power by muscular power... look for the one inch punch that is actually a normal Wing Chun punch punched from just one inch. "
One assumes that by "committed" the WC practitioner is implying that WC has less of a shift of centre of gravity in the sagittal plane during a punch. This is probably true; however, it is not the case that this makes the WC practioner more stable. Like the gyroscopic effect of a bicycle in motion, the stabilization requirements of the human body are far less than when stationary, regardless of that direction of motion. It has been my personal experience that when WC practitioners compare the stability of a WC punch (with its lack of "commitment") to that of a boxer's, it is done while the demonstrators are static. Such demonstrations are removed from reality for the reason mentioned above.
Let us also examine the point about WC not generating power through muscular contraction. With all due respect, I am hard pressed to find any other means that a human being can generate force without the use of muscle contraction. Even if one was to erroneously assume that the Wing Chun punch is nothing but an arm movement, one must accept that any force generated is through the simultaneous movement of the shoulder and elbow to extend the arm into the target. Its follows therefore that the fastest puncher is still going to be the person who can contract their skeletal muscle in the shortest amount of time (i.e. has the most muscular power), which almost invariably will be the boxer for reasons of training methods already discussed.
As for the one-inch punch made so famous by the late Mr Lee, it is indeed using the mechanics of a Wing Chun punch. I am not sure why it is mentioned by the WC practitioner writing, though it appears to be cited as evidence that the Wing Chun punch does not use muscular contraction to generate force, which in accordance with laws of mechanics and observation of the one-inch punch is not true. Were one to use no muscular contraction to generate force in a punch, one would not be moving at all. Brue Lee, like any other martial artist, is moving to generate force in the punch.
"2. A boxing jab is not simple to explain.. but when compared to the Wing Chun punch the boxing punch is much simpler to explain, because in Wing Chun there are internal aspects to the punch like focusing one's thought and body mass to a point and the punch is not relaxed then tensed on impact but its relaxed even upon impact.
Whether a Wing Chun punch is more difficult to explain or not should not be a justification for it to not be explained properly, though I assume this is not the other individual's intent.
I am not sure how "focusing one's thought and body mass to a point" is different from a boxer targeting a certain part of his opponent's body and generating force in a punch through the powerful transfer of bodyweight. If the WC practitioner is talking about making a point of the body such as the forearm literally heavier by thought alone, I suggest he presents some evidence that this is possible outside the realms of martial arts mythology. I also fail to see how this would make a punch faster, which is what we are debating.
The point on being relaxed even at impact would be true of a boxer also. If either the boxer or WCer did not have the structural integrity to transfer force from the ground through to the fist, then the body position would collapse on impact wih the opponent. The fact that boxers do not fold over themselves when they punch their opponents should make this self-evident.
"note: when i say body mass that doesn't mean that you have to move any part of your body but that will take a book to explain"
Again, I am not sure what the other individual is referring to, but it is not debatable that a punch involves moving your body, unless perhaps the WCer is attacking his opponent through Qi blasts? I assume this is not the case. As for taking a book to explain the concept - if you cannot actually explain it or refer to a text which has, then you are not actually structuring an argument. It is tantamout to saying "Napoleon Bonaparte was actually the first man on the moon, but it would take a book to explain." It is folly to use it in an argument because it adds nothing to the argument.
"3. Although Wing Chun is not a sport like boxing and is not safe to spar still not all lineages have no sparring like what is mentioned above."
I am unsure of the intent of the WCer with this point. Unless he assumes that only people without "real Wing Chun" engage in heavy sparring practise, the fact that there are practioners sparring and NOT dying should infer the conclusion that Wing Chun is safe to spar. This does not have any bearing on whether the Wing Chun punch is faster.
"4. A Wing Chun practitioner does not have the muscular endurance of a boxer for sure nor the muscular power of a boxer, but hey Wing Chun uses nearly no muscle even when pushing someone so to a Wing Chun practitioner the the heavy workout of a boxer doesn't really help they way you can develop strength and power, the Wing Chun way to develop speed and power can last even at old age when muscles are weak but to a boxer its not the same."
Again, this point implies that Wing Chun does not use a significant amount of muscular contraction to generate force. Again, I am hard pressed to find an alternative to moving the body to generate force in a punch, unless of course the WCer can offer an alternative to F=ma?
As for the iea that boxing mechanics cannot be used by older individuals because their muscles are inherently weak - I suggest the WCer takes a look at veteran weightlifters, who often still have tremendous amounts of strength even into their 70s and 80s, some of whom are stronger even than the average man in his 20s.
I await the counterpoint of the WCer in order to continue in a productive discussion.

Wing Chun View:

The reason the WC punch is faster is because of its circular structure. Among lots of things the circular structure of the punch allows minimum tension more than any other structure.
The boxer can ofcourse say that its like napoleon going to the moon but yet i still believe a whole art can not be explained in a forum.

Eventhough power is not the concern of this topic, Bruce Lee's One inch punch was done in the way you probably described yet i did not mention that the one inch punch with no muscular power is the one done by Bruce Lee.
I am sure you know know about the internal martial arts... Wing Chun Punch is an internal Punch.
The Physics of today is not the limit.. Rules of Physics can not explain everything(That is said by Physics Researchers not me by the way), however since force and power is not the concern of this topic please go to "What is the chinese martial art of wing chun all about?" question. There is a video about force demonstration, and two videos about structure demonstration.

After viewing the videos if you still do not believe it then please go to the International Wing Chun Academy in Australia and ask for a demonstration on you and they will gladly show you that its real in a humble and friendly way.

Boxing Counterpoint 2
On speed: I have never known Wing Chun punches, or any punches for that matter, to be circular in structure. In my experience WC punches are always delivered in straight lines from a body structure that gets is integrity from triangular structure. The Wcer needs to clarify this before I can make any comment.

On power: it appears the WCer is again implying that the Wing Chun punch is deriving force from Qi, which being something that cannot be observed or tested in any reliable way by the scientific method makes it something that cannot be "explained". This again is somewhat futile when trying to compose a rational argument, as evidence is somewhat of a prerequisite for such endeavours. Using some vague reference to "physics researchers" with no name or source is hardly an appropriate way to determine something that "is said" by such "Researchers".
I love this topic and just want to contribute
Just thought I'd contribute a bit to this debate. I must point out the boxer presented a very logical argument, and while the wing chun person may have had some good points, he/she strayed tended to stray from the topic.
But, in asking the question, "What is the fastest punch?" I thought the debate would have been about trying to determine what kind of punch is inherently the fastest. I guess to work this out you would have to get all the people in the world (or a decent sample would do) to perform a variety of punches and see which prevailed as the fastest.
But looking at the two perspectives provided, the discussion was based more on training regimes, punching power, endurance and fighting ability. I don't think you can escape this reality but it means the focus of the argument was on what activities, attributes, etc make you able to punch faster.
A skilled athlete or fighter might be able to do a hook or fully chambered karate punch faster than an average Joe's jab. But then that would mean that same person would also be able to do a jab faster than their hook/chambered punch because it is travelling a shorter distance and in a straight line.
Now, if you look at a boxer's jab and a wing chun straight punch, I think it is safe to say the movement of the arm in both punches is remarkably similar. It doesn't matter if, say, the boxer's jab starts with the hand more in line with the shoulder and the wing chun punch starts with the hand more in line with the sternum; in effect, the movement in both punches is the same: straightening of the arm in the shortest distance - a straight line. And both punches are executed loosely, i.e. not rigid or constrained by antagonist muscles like the biceps. And as pointed out already, both can be non-committal, meaning your body position remains the same.
Here is where training comes into it. The one that you practice/use in your respective sport or fighting style will most likely become the fastest for you. For example, after doing wing chun for awhile, the wing chun straight punch has become my fastest punch. I thought I'd experiment one day and found my other punches (which I used in boxing, karate, etc) didn't seem as natural or effective as they used to be. But I will note that my jab is just as fast because as I said, the movement and muscles used are very similar. This comes down to my specific training, rather than what type of punch is faster (although I'm not suggesting someone can throw a haymaker faster than they can do a jab).
I think my conclusion is that the two punches compared here are very similar in their execution and in the direction and distance they travel. Regardless of stance, power, etc, if you detach the punch from the body and examine the movement in isolation, they will look the same. Therefore, it comes down to training/practice to see which is the fastest for you. And whoever can do their punch the fastest is simply the faster of the two, just like whoever wins a sprint is the faster runner of the two.
in my experience a punch that is thrown the shortest amount of distance is the fastest and through observations a wing chun punch can generate just as much force as a boxing punch 
However despite Wing Chun's argument, the worlds fastest recorded punch was by boxer Joe Calzaghe has the fastest punch in the world, with a speed of t nine punches a second!     
So what do you guys think? Who do you agree with?
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