Boxer_Joe (Level 10)

“Fighting is what I do, alright? It's all I was ever good at and I'm still good at it - I'm Boxer Joe, the guy who fights! That's what I am.”
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Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

RPG » Universal Armageddon: OOC

@Sonata: Same here there are like 5 different fights taking place all over some in different planes of existence, is anyone free? Maybe I can make a post with you or something.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » The 11 Spuernovas vs Goku

@hitsusatsu11:
A ki sheild will protect him from age? The DBZ wank is out of hand, you have absolutly no proof that Goku can block being aged lol nor being "Shambled", some OP are more hax than others, WB is more powerful destructive wise compared to the Novas, we don't know what Blackbeard did or how he won. It does not matter how fast her attack is, Goku is surrounded, all the enemies are scattered,  in order to use a wavw as you are describing yes he needs to charge, unless you mean th eone he used to bury vegeta.  You really dislike the idea of OP winning, huh? Goku has no defense for being aged period, that ki shield does not protect you from things like that, you don't need a planet buster to take out Goku. Nappa would lose this if the scenario is the same, I am n ot debating them being able to survive an attack or not I am debating them winning due to abilities. Goku solos OP of course, however the series is not even over and you all calling out Goku winning? You are one of the biggest DBZ wankers out there yet you say I wank OP a show I don't even like? This coming from the guy who thinks Goku can beat anyone short of god hmself or The One Above All, I don't think I have once seen you say Goku loses a battle. Given this scenario there is no way Goku can block age plain and simple, IF he gets a blst off he kills them yes, but  Law and Bonney have abilities to win.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » The 11 Spuernovas vs Goku

@hitsusatsu11:
And there is nothing goku can do to keep from being turned into a baby or getting his body mixed up, OP team can win here, not to mention Hawkins who can transfer the damage to anyone. Face it OP CNA beat Goku with their abilites, he can't really blitz with the speed equal and Bonney's abilities wrok faster than Goku's charge up.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » The 11 Spuernovas vs Goku

@Hirako_Fan:
True but it also takes one move from Bonney or Law to end this as well.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Dragon Ball » How fast are DBZ characters?

@hitsusatsu11:
The first part was to show how inconsistant it is hence the ":)"  
 
No he still did not move at light speed, he simply went really fast. And with Goku and frieza's ball of light, okay then why did he not simply dodge the attack? in the first place? Not to mention 

because gotenks’s feat puts him at mach 1000.
because buuhan moving as fast as he can took a good while to reach goku and vegeta after goku used IT. if he was lightspeed or faster he would have reached their location in less than one second. And then we have buu destroying earth, why not just use IT and get everyone? 
 
 
You keep bringing up the anime but okay, since it should be allowed as a good feat. The ship was moving thousands times faster than light, okay then why did he not simply use this kind of speed against frieza, that all dissappeares I guess, since goku should be a couple thousands times the speed of light. Inconsistancies all over. 
 
I didn't know I had that power lol, they don't move at light speed because it is never proven, when gohan blasted cell into space that did not seem light speed nor any other feat past that or before.  
 
You don't find it relivent eh? Well you should reread it, I even gave goku the benefit of the doubt.  but wait he is thousands times the speed of light right? no. WHen was this shown in fighting, and please show me goku instantly taking out peopel like you say. I will go ahead and say goku is near light speed or possibly right at light speed but you still have not shown me FTL Then you bring up PL when we know how wacky they are Raditz moved after the beam fired sure, the blast hit the moon okay but why is the move he used on raditz just fast? Because it's stronger? and when did PL mean speed as well Yajirobe never seemed even mach speed yet the PL should prove otherwise. 
 
Anyway all I'm saying is I can beleive goku to be light speed or even FTL, but just show me, because they way you talk about goku he is some omipresent god. I also brought up Toriyama not wanting to do DBZ because you see it? Cell is solar system busting yet he and gohan clash and nothing happens? Not only that but the blast was not FTL despite the fact that both should be stronger than Namek saga goku? Just explain this to me and I will concede.

Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Dragon Ball » How fast are DBZ characters?

@Mortein said:
"@Boxer_Joe said:

"  I did not, He did not take a nap right off the bat, even if he did he would have had to travel around the world 7.5 times a second and he did not. Piccolo still should not have been able to catch up to him.
"

I'm lazy today, so I'll replay only to this
Light circles the earths equator 7.5 x in second, however a circles Gotenks did were much bigger then equator. 
So if he did all that in one second, he actually did go ftl.
and also he did took a nap.

 
 
"
For starters, in the anime, we can see the Earth turning while he circles it. So there goes any reliable sense of time. If it weren't for that, he would have actually been clocked faster than light; but as is, it took him like 6 days to get around the planet :)  
@hitsusatsu11 said:  You talk like he attacks instantly too lol, he just moves to the location, he moves, then attacks.  Gotenkts even while animated did not move that fast, he was massivly hypersonic but that's it. Escaping frieza's ball of light. Okay so you are saying it exploded at light speed or somthing? Comparing ki energy attacks to a bomb is kinda silly. That doesn't make him faster than light. Try this calculation on for size: someone moving at the speed of light would circle earth completely roughly 8 times, IIRC, in one second. Outrunning the explosion is, all things considered, something that I would have expected of Goku at that point, considering that back during the Tenkaichi Budokai 21 him and Krillin were fast enough to have fights that took five minutes from their point of view, but only 1 second from a normal humans point of view.

But again, don't assume that means light speed. You have no idea how fast light speed would really make a character. If you want to provide an example proving that they don't, look no further than the anime Cyborg 009. 009, moving just under the Speed of Light with his enhanced speed mode, lived 2 weeks inside of the time it took a person to blink. Later on, when 009 was fighting someone who had the power to automatically match his opponents speed, they had this drawn out fight across an entire city. From their point of view, everyone in the city was frozen during the entire ordeal. From the humans point of view, all of the explosions from the entire fight all over the city happened at once, inexplicably.

If there isn't a feat duplicating that stuff in DBZ, then they aren't moving at the speed of light.

The closest feat is Gotenks at SS1 flying around the world something like 6 times in a few seconds. But they implied that he basically burned the better half of his ki doing that, and Piccolo was out of breath following him. This would mean that the highest level DB characters, like Kid Buu and SSJ3 Goku, can probably *approach* the speed of light, but it requires such a huge burnout of ki that it isn't feasible for use in combat.     if we want to get into the whol piccolo and raditz thing Well... quite apart from the fact that ki does not move at the speed of light, Raditz would not have had to have moved at the speed of light to dodge it even if it had been moving that fast.

If we look the scene in question Piccolo was around 15 metres from Raditz when he fired the Special Beam Cannon. Raditz did indeed dodge it but he only moved like a foot since it blasted off his shoulder pad.

This means that in the time it took something travelling at lightspeed to travel 15 metres, Raditz moved a foot. Lightspeed is 299,792,458 m/s and it takes light approximately 0.00000005 of a second to travel 15 metres. In this time Raditz moved a foot which is 0.3 of a metre. This means he would have been moving at 6,000,000 m/s which is considerably less than lightspeed, heck it isn't even 1/10th, it's almost 1/50th of lightspeed.

But since ki blasts don't travel at lightspeed anyway this argument is entirely irrelevant but I just thought I should point out that even if they did Raditz was not moving anywhere near lightspeed.

Isn't maths fun! 
 
There are exceptions to my light speed argument (Kizaru from one piece) but non in DBZ, it's just too inconsistant I mean he didn't have control over alot of DBZ towards the end either, but that doesn't stop people from saying that's canon. he wanted to end it at Frieza.

Then, he wanted to end it at Cell.

Then, he wanted Gohan to be the hero after the Cell saga.

Each time, the fans and the editors wouldn't let him.

Essentially, yes he wrote it, but he didn't particularly want to. Considering that he stated in several interviews that he was upset when the fans demanded more, and enough that he vindicatively created the Vegeta/Bulma pairing as retaliation (he admitted to this himself), I don't think he was particularly happy about continuing a project he was losing interest in. Not to mention, you see the noticable decline in quality of his manga began after the Cell saga. however giving goku the benefit of the doubt 
fpssj goku moved his hand faster than cell's kameha could hit him,and cell's kameha traveled the whole length of earth in less than a second.So ssj3 goku should have light speed or a few times above light speed reflexes but no movement.

Also with the new dbz movie,goku is more powerful than gotenks.When ssj gotenks punched aka(the villain which does other two villains formed by fusing) he was sent flying but not koed,when ssj1 goku did it he was sent flying and koed.

Edit:Also I'm guessing that goten and trunks trained so they probably got stronger meaning that ssj3 goku should be above the mystic gohan that fought super buu.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Dragon Ball » How fast are DBZ characters?

@Boxer_Joe

said: 
 

"Nice nice nice. 
Way to completely ignore that Gotenks took a nap for an undisclosed period of time.  
Then, Piccolos says he has one minute, gotenks gets to Buu. says something, then defuses.  
We don't have exact times for the feat. so its vague. 

  I did not, He did not take a nap right off the bat, even if he did he would have had to travel around the world 7.5 times a second and he did not. Piccolo still should not have been able to catch up to him.
 

Shunkan Ido is used in combat, the scans prove this.  

 Sure like warp kamehameha right? I have never seen goku do something like teleport/high speed fight, so far I have only seen him to it for warp kamehameha or to dodge, he still needs a bit of time for it.
 

Bringing up the movies? 
In 10,000 Power Soldiers goku is able to fight a whole battle instantly with shunkan ido. 
Anyway saying IT is not instant is nonsense.  

  I bring up the movies as a reference for the battles I have seen, and to give goku an edge.  Sure IT is instant however feats prove otherwise, Cell is able to react to it, even so he teleports, stops, then attacks.
 

The theory of relativity does not apply to DB, as space ships have moved thousands of times FTL 
From the manga, gotenks flew around the world (in larger arcs then the worlds circumference) in one panel and over all he flew and napped for an unknown period of 30 seconds.  

  Still not 7.5 times in one second, you can count the rings, it was not 7 times at all.
 

Goku did not name the technique, the people of Yardrat did. 
The daizenshuu and iirc even an interview with Toriyama confirm it as instant.  

 
 Okay it's instant, just really inconsistant when used.
 

Again, Gotenks flew for x amount of time, napped for y amount.  

 
 
  Yet no 7.5 times. I'm not saying he is not fast but he is not close to light speed.

This isn't relevant.  How about Goku as a child reacting to beams of light? How about Goku being faster than lightning? How about the speed of beams? How about Goku escaping the light of freeza?  "


Beams of light? Impressive, but see that all goes away in other battles and DBZ somehow. Goku was told that he had to be faster than lightning to face piccolo and train with Kami but Kami train him anyway, I never saw him accomplish this lightning feat. Beams of light should be the only lightspeed kind of beams, I mean lasers/beams are faster than bullets but I have not seen anything to suggest they were light speed. Escaping frieza at the last minute? I must be thinking of something else, scan please.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

General Discussion » What is Your dream Match/fight?

@TheLegendaryOne said:
"1. Goku vs. Superman2. Goku vs. Sailor Moon  3. Unit 01 vs. Wing Zero 4. Naruto vs. Luffy 5. Afro Samurai vs. Kenshin Himura 6. Rushuna Tendo vs. Vash the Stampede 7. Janemba vs. Kid Buu 8. Broly vs. Gogeta 9. Broly vs. Vegito  10. SSJ3 Goku vs. SSJ3 Vegeta // SSJ4 Goku vs. SSJ4 Vegeta (both fights would be mad epic)11. Aleksandr Her vs. Edward Elric 12. Kenshiro vs. Goku 13. Broly vs. Hatchyack If there are any more that come to mind, I will probably edit this. "

A few of those are stomps, Sailor moon would stomp goku, Luffy would stomp naruto, afro would stomp Kenshin Jenemba would ultra stomp kid buu,vegito would beat Broly, same with gogeta. However Kenshiro vs goku and the others are fair match ups.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

General Discussion » What is Your dream Match/fight?

@SilverGalford said:

"the presence + the one above all + divine spawn + man of miracles vs anime universe "


Tie, coming from a comic fan, I know anime has people who are omnipotent even some who affect the 4th wall. I know you are not too fond of anime but they would end up in a draw, hell even add beyonder and that midget from superman and it would be the same, I men two omnipotents can't take out one, it would always be a draw you know?
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Dragon Ball » How fast are DBZ characters?


"First off, Goku's Instant Transmission is never actually used in combat. Yes he uses it to throw people off guard in combat but Goku never uses IT in the manner we see Night Crawler use his teleporting in X-Men 2.

He can run away with it and use it to shift a major attack but other than that its not like the ability makes him able to fight at light-speed.

Which brings us to Gotenks(A faster character);
Gotenks travels the distance around the world (24,859.82 miles) half a dozen times in an undetermined amount of time... while light would circle the planet 9 times per second.

Which tells us he is not as fast as light. This is confirmed when Piccolo arrives and talks to Gotenks.

We are told that he has used up most of his time. Infact when Gotenks takes off to find Buu he has just under a minute and when he gets to Buu's house he doesn't even finish calling Buu out when his fusion wears off.

If it took approx 54 secs for him to travels a distance less than 20,000km. that would be ~0.12% light speed. Even if it only took him a second to get to Buu's house he is still a 1/15th the speed of light.

Nothing in the anime is good enough evidence to deduce a reasonable conclusion without any plotholes. I would say times faster than sound but way under the speed of light.

Obviously not near light speed because of the Theory of relativity, but excluding that, he doesn't show anything close to light speed. Jutst because he turns up a level in SS doesn't mean he's faster. Go by what he has shown in the manga or show not math that has nothing to back it up.

__________

Nothing excluding...

By physics he cannot although this is discredited by the feats of speed his able to perform. Exhibited in "Broly The Legendary" Instant transmission does not work as the move implies, it in-fact is literal movement over a period of time. In this movie Goku used this moves to another region of the galaxy and there is a travel section. Also in the series, Gotanks a character of who is much slower then Goku travels the distance around the world (24,859.82 miles) many times within 4 sec and light is able to travel around the planet about 9 times per second. If Gotanks a much lesser character is able to travel the planet 1/9 light speed, before the discovery of SS4 in DBGT Goku is highly likely to be able to travel faster than the illogical speed of light

Ftw

________________

Goku lacks the any feats to support the fact that he can move Faster than light. Instant Transmission is exactly waht it sounds like. Instant movement. The manga is the original source, so it defines what Goku does and what feats he has exhibited. The movies are not canon to the story, and therefore do not effect the real DBZ storyline. no Gotenks actually did not travel around the world in 4 seconds. The feat is illogical. In the anime the Earth can be seen rotating at a faster than normal rate, which would imply time is passing by faster. If time is relative to each person, as suggested by physics, then that would mean the Earth shouldn't have rotating at all. IT could also mean a large amount of time passed while Gotenks travelled around the world, but this isn't true, since the fusion only lasts 30 minutes. Goku lacks feats to suggests he is FTL. Instant transmission is what it sound like, Instant movement.

FTW

__________

(warning comment may not be as small as implied)

Ah, just a small comment , fusion times is entirely based on amount of power in use by said fused indivual. Time is relative yes and yes planet rotation may be taken into consideration but at the time the anime was written I don't honestly physics were applied to the logics. "Instant Transmission" a moved named by a dull, righteous, member of a warrior race of whom took more than his fair share of cracks to his head. Goku describes the move as instantaneous but it may not be completely accurate. Remember to keep an open mind and try to understand other points. Real physics do say this speed is completely imposable but is also says a normal man is not able to shoot energy beams, move at sonic speeds or lift large cars with ease (Krilin).

FTReply! =)


________

"Ah, just a small comment , fusion times is entirely based on amount of power in use by said fused indivual."


Even though Piccolo clearly states it only lasts 30 minutes. Even if you throw out physics from the equation, you are left with a clear statement made in the manga which states the fusion only lasts for 30 minutes. I agree, using physics in anime is like trying to fit a whale in a bathtub. It just wont work. But, you cannot use physics selectively. Either you use physics to decribe feats all the time, or do not use it at all and use evidence from the manga to support it.

__________

I say do not apply physics in this. And Yes piccolo did state it lasts 30 min but also Goku was given exactly 1 day as a visit on earth. This was cut down by the over use of power. Later in the Fusion Reborn limited fusion time is expressed that Gogeta only was able to keep sustained for minutes. Again in GT part of the real series 334 Goku only lasted a rough couple minutes. But this has nothing to do with how fast Goku is."



Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

General Discussion » Deadliest Fictional Warrior: Sailor Moon vs. Goku

@Nevermind:
Yup him too, not saying taichokage,Hitsusatsu and thelegendary one did not give good arguments but it seems all vain now, I have no idea why a mod wont lock this thread. The very few Goku debaters are beating a dead horse, it's like an episode of judge judy where the defendant is already going to lose but keeps trying to debate lol. (Sorry just reminded me of the clip I watched on youtube.)
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Goku » Can Goku Destroy A Galaxy?

@taichokage:
Maybe he could by destroying all the planets in the galaxy or something but no he is not a true one shot galaxy buster. I still think that cell being solar system busting was crap despite hitsuatsu's arguments but that's my opinion, the same way I think sailor moon stomps goku and Dark stomp shenron. I think you make very good case though. Kurohige would do a better job explaining than me lol
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

General Discussion » Deadliest Fictional Warrior: Sailor Moon vs. Goku

@Nevermind said:
" @TheLegendaryOne:  I know you aren't. I'm just saying.  I never once said Goku was slow. By the end of the series he is easily in the quadruple digits hypersonic. That is extremely fast.  They can't say she's not FTL because the scans are right there. Even if Goku was FTL (and he isn't, he has no clear FTL speed feats), he's displayed nothing close to being able to zip to the center of the galaxy 26,000 lightyears away in a second or two under his own momentum.  Sailor Moon stops time and drops a Galaxy Cauldron busting attack on his ass.   Though Goku won under the conditions we set up in the movie (where speed wasn't very heavily considered), which I don't mind. :P "

Agreed, you and Kurohige killed this thread. 
 
Sailor moon stomps hard, like shitsumon and Rappu said, i ahve no idea why people think goku has a chance here.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

RPG » [OOC] Sails to the New World - One Piece RPG



 
 
 
Name: Jarves Irving 
Age: 45 
Gender: Male 
Devil fruit: Force Force fruit 
Occupation: Pirate captain (First Class Pirates) 
Bounty:     24,000,000 berri 
 
Special skills: Expert kick-boxer, tea expert. Due to the powers of the force fruit it allows Jarves to use invisible force to push, crush, and evens trangle enemies however he can only push so far. 
 
Crew: 
 
 
 

Name:Fredrict Stoltz 
Age: 53 
Gender: Male 
Bounty: 200 berry 
Occupation: First mate 
Devil fruit: None 
 
Special skills: Expert martial artist. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Name: Sesile Jayne 
Age: 30 
Gender: Male 
Bounty: 2,000 berri 
Occupation: Gunner 
Devil fruit: None 
 
Special skills: Weapon specialist. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Name: Julia Harr 
Age: 16 
Gender: Female 
Bounty: 30,000,000 
Occupation: Navigator 
Devil fruit: Plant plant fruit (Paremecia)
 
Special skills: Julia can summon plants from her body or out of the ground or any kind to attack the enemy. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Name: Hooper Styles 
Age: 57 
Gender: Male 
Bounty: None 
Occupation: Chef 
Devil fruit: None 
Special skills: Hooper is a colonary chef. 
 
 
 
 
 
Name: Fuujin Yamasaki 
Age: 21 
Gender: Male 
Bounty: 4,000 berri 
Occupation: FIghter 
Devil fruit: None 
Special skills: Fuujin is an expert swordsman, he masters the two sword style and uses twin katana.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Bartholomew Kuma and 20 Pacifista vs. Android 16

@CodeSaint said:
"Well possibily even the top 3 characters from Straw Hat Crew would do it alone,#16 is a stomp. "


Who and how?
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Sajin Komamura vs Kenpachi Zaraki

@Hirako_Fan:
Well Kenpachi even admitted Nnoroira almost killed him.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » Sajin Komamura vs Kenpachi Zaraki

@taichokage said:
" @Boxer_Joe: Actually Koma has been beaten by Tosen too. And that part where he fought Ichigo, he was not serious, he did not use his best techniques, he did not even release his reiatsu until after he had already let ichigo wound him time after time, Ichigo is a massive evolving machine who went from not being able to beat Grimmjow, to dominating Ulquiorra in a matter of hours, this instance was the same, and on top of all that, they actually had a draw, not Kenny's loss. If anything, Kenny won that fight because even though it was a double ko, Kenny was the last one standing."
Komamura was not trying to kill Tousen as shown when he backhanded him, Tousen only won from the power up (Mainly his enhanced regeneration) plus another form. I don't hink Knepachi would have done much better. Still no one has shown a feat for Kenpachi winning.
@Hirako_Fan said:
" @Boxer_Joe: that battle was PIS  EX ok Shikai ichigo beated Kempachi but how can you explain that Ichigo with his Bankai and his mask could barely beat the 6th espada them Kempachi comes and defeats the 5th but later Ichigos Vizored Kuroi Getsuga barely made a Cutted yamis neck but Seconds later a pached Kempachi cuts yamis legs like a hot Knife trought Butter "

Simple, yammy sucked and pretty much everyone got stronger, did you think they stayed the same level or something? Kenpachi most likely trained harder, you of all people should know Bleach characters get crazy power-ups.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » crimson king & ban vs aokiji, akanui, kizaru, luffy, zoro, marco

@willyvereb:
No Flash would rape the whole One Piece world before their nerves even sgnal their brains lol, but it is a manner of speech, I am currently exeeding my science classes and am planning to major in it, that or a few other things next year. Your additude of thinking you are above everyone led you to suggest something so crazy, I have prefect knowledge of speed, both real life and fictional. Just let Hitsusatsu handle this, it's beyond you.
Post by Boxer_Joe (307 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Battles » crimson king & ban vs aokiji, akanui, kizaru, luffy, zoro, marco


Anyway back to the debate no one has shown me a argument why Getbackers win, only a power set lol, I say team One Piece wins due to numbers and area of affect (Luffy,Aokiji,Akainu) and team getbackers will be busy taking out the two fighters while everyone else attacks, really I'm starting to think Aokiji can even win this, seeing as how if the get close it's over, Aokiji freezes them in an instant, his ice time would freeze the whole feild.
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