AURON570 (Level 15)

My heart was breaking while watching episode 10. Someone on Crunchyroll's discussion thread commented that it's almost like Saeki and Nakamura are the stereotypical angel and devil on Kasuga's shoulders. Pushing and pulling him in either direction. But the difference is that Saeki and Nakamura are complex, living, breathing human beings.

I feel like this episode might have been titled "Confessions", since we get some insight into what the three characters are thinking. Kasuga doesn't really understand the literature he reads and he doesn't know what kind of person he should be. Saeki wants to be worthy of being Kasuga's girlfriend. And Nakamura... well she just wants another sicko to keep her company. But even with these confessions, it is still a long way before any of these characters really sort out their problems (if ever).

I liked how at the end of this episode the roles were reversed and it's Nakamura who is running away this time. I could see how some people might dismiss this as "oh a typical love triangle". And I agree, it is for the most part. But I think it's each characters' psychological nuance (their thought process, their attitude toward others, about the town, how they live etc.) that really makes this love triangle an emotional ride. Not to mention that two of them are effectively criminals.

I look forward to a possible interrogation scene and how the adult characters react to the truth. They could be caring and comforting.. or they could be harsh and angry. What adults say and do to children has a big effect on them, so that will be interesting to see.

@rubberluffy: So you didn't read the manga first and you started by watching the live-action movies? Well maybe that was the problem, the live action movies were shit. I can't imagine how badly that must've soiled your experience of the story.

And yeah I did read your post -.-, I agree ep 10 was pretty drawn out. I'm still excited to watch the story unfold. The animation and sound continues to be strong and the story has enough threads being weaved around to keep it interesting.

@rubberluffy: I'm hoping that's because you already read the manga for Death Note, otherwise you would be missing out by not watching Death Note in its entirety.

Episode 9 and 10 was nice. I'm glad they're introducing some new characters from the Survey Corps, good contrast with the trainees we've gotten used to seeing so far. Hmm yeah that whole negotiation scene in 10 did feel really long. It felt kind of arbitrary when Eren was like "Armin.. I'll let you decide", but I think it paid off with Armin's speech... It almost made me cry, good job on the voice actress for that part. I'm glad they included the bit with Eren, his father and the key, gives us something to wonder about. What secrets could his father possibly have hidden?

I had a flashback of Deadman Wonderland when Eren bit his finger and used his blood to create that skeleton/Titan. Both anime deal with similar themes I suppose.

@sickVisionz: "Not how teens actually work." I think you're generalizing unfairly here or maybe imposing a sort of "American teenager" stereotype. At this point it sounds like you're upset by Kasuga's actions because they don't fit with your idea of reality and the anime otherwise you think is very realistic. Just because some kids behave in certain ways doesn't mean every other teen would behave or think in the same way.

It's okay to be upset with how Kasuga is acting. You think I condone everything Kasuga did? No. Do I think that Kasuga could have acted differently and set himself on a healthier path? Yes. But as I have already tried to explain, there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for Kasuga's behaviour AND his thought process. Kasuga is conflicted between trying to take the moral high road, settling his emotions. Whether or not those emotions are sexual or platonic. And also if there is anyone he can trust and talk to.

I don't think either of us can claim to be experts on child psychology, and even experts have different opinions on matters. So unless you want to provide a better explanation for Kasuga's behavior, OR criticize my explanation, OR give a suggestion on how you think Kasuga should act (because you think that Kasuga is not acting realistically) without pointing to examples from your childhood and generalizing them to Kasuga, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree at this point. In the end I'm just happy there are other people who love this anime enough to post their thoughts about it openly.

@sickVisionz: So did you read the rest of my post? Do you at least partly see where Kasuga might be coming from and why he might be feeling guilty and conflicted about what he has done? I can see how those points you made might be considered positives to someone else, but to Kasuga they are extremely ambiguous for the reasons I tried to explain. I know it was a mouthful, but I think that says more about how complex Kasuga's character can be. On the surface we can dismiss his behavior as "oh he's whining over nothing and being immature", OR we can take some time to actually TRY and understand his character and ask "well, what is making him behave this way? how is he thinking about things? What traps in his thought is he setting for himself?"

Also, I'm curious, was there anything in particular in episode 9 that triggered this reaction? Did Kasuga do something extremely unreasonable? Sounds pretty serious if you were watching mid way, had to pause and post something in this thread.

@sickVisionz: NOTE: I have not watched episode 9 yet, but this is my best interpretation of Kasuga's situation.

I don't see how getting away with vandalism and stealing is something to be proud or relieved of. This isn't some American high school movie. Maybe keep in mind that in the manga, the characters are supposed to be in primary school. I don't remember the exact age, but 8-12 maybe.

Kasuga is just trying to come to terms with his identity. On the one hand he wants to be "normal" and fit in with others, but on the other hand he thinks he is both better and worse than the rest of the people in this small town. He thinks he's better because he can read literature and everyone else is fake, but he's worse than everyone because he is basically a criminal who hasn't atoned for his sins. It's the struggle between trying to live up to an idealized image of himself and coming to terms with the sins he has committed.

The problem is that because Kasuga thinks he can't trust anyone with the truth, he continues to internalize his sins and feel bad about it all. The only person Kasuga can effectively trust at this point is Nakamura. Due to Kasuga's isolation he can't succeed to be "normal" with others because he feels that no one will understand him. No one will understand him because, Kasuga thinks, "if no one can understand and read literature like Baudelaire, how can I expect them to understand the truth about who I really am and the sins I committed?"

Okay, now you might be asking, "wait, why doesn't Kasuga just keep it a secret? surely people in real life have done crazy shit and not told anyone, why can't Kasuga do this?" And that's the million dollar question. Kasuga doesn't seem to understand what it means to have "normal" relationships with others. Namely that in order to have a meaningful relationship with another person you don't need to tell them everything and they don't have to understand you completely. Unless Kasuga realizes this, it's all downhill from this point as he continues to dig himself into a hole.

____________________

Okay about Saeki supposedly wanting to have sex with him and Nakamura's twisted advances. Again, I think Kasuga is struggling between trying to take the high road and facing his sins and his sexual emotions. For example in an earlier episode Kasuga clearly fantasized about Saeki-san but quickly chastised himself for thinking dirty thoughts saying, "no, Saeki is an angel, Saeki deserves a purer person than I." Clearly Kasuga is imposing some sort of "moral ideal" and he wants to become a better person. BUT since this moral ideal is probably informed by the literature that he reads, Kasuga can't count on anyone understanding it or the struggle that he is going through. Which again results in his further isolation from others, and Kasuga not bothering to build relationships with others. (Except Nakamura, who seems intent on exploiting Kasuga's situation)

_____________________

About Nakamura, I have never considered her a romantic interest. I have been under the impression that she is only interested in exploiting and manipulating Kasuga. Even if an actual romantic interest has developed between them, it is only because of the sins that Kasuga has committed. Which again, Kasuga would have trouble accepting because of his desire to be a normal person.

The funeral marches from and to school were crazy. Imagine how long it actually took them to walk that distance (if it were in real life), and the thoughts running through Kasuga's head. The holding hands was like... it was like Nakamura was the only thing holding him together, as they shuffle slowly along home. The music on their way FROM school at night suggested a feeling of elation, maybe even calm. Like Kasuga was happy/relieved that he got those feelings out of his system, and that his classmates would FINALLY know the truth. However, god damn, he just had to paint over his name, his classmates are still in the dark, and thus perpetuating Kasuga's role as a "closet-pervert" for Nakamura to exploit. It's a vicious cycle where a person gets stuck in a particular way of living, a particular mindset or personality.

I don't know whether to classify this story as a tragedy yet, or what Kasuga's tragic flaw would be. Maybe it's Kasuga's attitude toward others.. he did refer to his classmates as "dumb slovenly seals" at one point. I guess if his attitude doesn't change by the end of the series, this story might end up a tragedy as Nakamura continues to exploit Kasuga's role as a "pervert" and Kasuga increasingly feels like he has no one to turn to except Nakamura.

Episode 8: LMAO it's like Evangelion all over again. Armin's plans, that was all well done. Finally less "omg Titans wtf do we do" and more actual strategy and execution. Hmm yeah so it looks like maybe my theory about human civilization splitting up a looooonnnngg time ago might be plausible. Whatever the story behind the Titans I hope it handles it well. Attack On Titan continues to appeal to just about any anime fan with it's bloody action and animation. Can't complain really, it just doesn't look like this anime is bothering to develop the characters, instead its focusing more on the Titans and world-building for now. All the soldiers at this point might as well be the same, with maybe 1 unique characteristic, or their parents died in a slightly different way or something.

These spam bots are getting craftier. o3o"

Anyways I'm pretty hype for Tekken Tag Tournament 2. Did you know ALL the DLC is FREEE? I only found this out yesterday. Yes free! Haha! Take that Capcom! And it's only $20 now. =O

@Destinyheroknight said:

I didn't saw that coming

Me neither. I would write a longer comment about episode 7 but I'm afraid I'd just end up repeating my previous comments on episode 6. So for now all I have to say is: FUUCK. That was one of the most beautiful and cathartic scenes I have watched in a long time. The animation was absolutely amazing. Like holy crap, the sound of the chalk, the frantic camera cuts, the blue tone, Nakamura soaking in everything with a frantic dance, Kasuga finally letting go and facing himself. DAMN. JUST... DAMN.

@takashichea: You're not using "altercation" right on that wiki page. The words you're looking for are alteration, changes or differences, but that's kind of redundant because you already have the heading saying "Manga and Anime Differences".

Episode 6 was pretty easy to watch. LOL so the REAL protagonist finally reveals himself... herself. Heck this could even turn into a trope if it's handled correctly. Making a character seem like the protagonist for the first few episodes, then killing him/her and shifting the focus to another character. Interesting how the only person they have shown in the series so far actually taking down Titans is Mikasa, so much for Eren's big talk. It was also interesting that during the flashback with Mikasa's family, Mikasa asked about how humans reproduce, since we don't know how the Titans reproduce... yet ;) The parallels between Mikasa's family dying and Eren's family dying were nice. Now all we need is to learn about Armin's family. :P

EDIT:

Well someone just gave me a guest pass so I went ahead and watched Episode 7 of Attack on Titan, and here are my thoughts:

Oh man that Titan at the end was ridiculous. So it looks like MAYBE the Titans are sapient enough that there are disagreements between the Titans about their relations with humans? The animation in the series continues to be really great (snow, blood, gore, mechanical web-swinging). All that talk about being a good leader, so far there haven’t really been any great examples of good leaders. I think this is partly because it can be reduced to the decision to fight or flee. On the one hand you have people going “oh it’s no use, let’s retreat so we can survive a little longer. On the other hand you have people like Eren who want to make a stand no matter what. And then there are fence-sitters or bystanders. However Mikasa’s urge to retake the tower was a good start, I’m interested to see how that plan goes. We need people who can think on their feet and be ready for worst case scenarios! Following orders is only one part of being a good soldier and sometimes the mission changes and old orders no longer matter! xD

Whenever I hear this version of the opening theme I feel like doing the Thriller dance. Also wow, Nakamura's face when she kicked Kasuga's chair was priceless.

It's like she's staring into my SOUL!

Well I can’t say that Kasuga is dealing with his thoughts and feelings in a psychologically healthy way. Kasuga clearly fantasized about Saeki-san, but he continues to deny and repress his sexual emotions by repeating lines like “I’m going to become a man worthy of Saeki,” “Saeki is an angel” etc.

It’s like Flowers of Evil is commenting both on moeblob anime and ecchi anime. The major plot point in Episode 6 was Nakamura telling Kasuga that Saeki-san wants to have sex. On the one hand if the viewer’s reaction is to side with Kasuga and does not want them to have sex because Saeki-san is innocent and all that. Then the viewer is in the same camp as practically every moeblob fan who can’t deal with the fact that their favourite female character gets a boyfriend. The same mode of thinking applies to fans of Japanese idol groups who throw hissy fits whenever their favorite idol gets a boyfriend. Kasuga is kind of like the moeblob fan who won't hear anything against his beloved Saeki-san. I wouldn't be surprised if Saeki-san actually does want to have sex, after all she is only human (just like Kasuga). But I seriously doubt that Saeki-san told Nakamura anything.

On the other hand if the viewer hopes that Kasuga and Saeki DO end up having sex, and the viewer is rooting for them to get it over with and do it already… Then the viewer is just like every other ecchi fan who only cares about boobs, shower scenes, sex scenes etc. and who looks forward to uncensored blu-ray releases of their favorite ecchi anime.

In this way, Flowers of Evil shows that both genres are inadequate and sometimes even unhealthy in how they deal with sexual themes. I feel like Kasuga is going to have to confront his sexual emotions at some point. Whether he confronts them because Nakamura keeps pushing him to do so, the process is not going to be easy. I previously raised the idea that Nakamura is just in it for the lols or she just wants to mess stuff up. But maybe her confrontational nature is a part of this anime’s critical attitude. Without Nakamura being so pushy, I don’t think this anime would be as effective at pushing its viewer to think about sexual themes differently.

Hmmm, this is turning out to a be a really interesting case study of adolescent curiosity of sex and love. For example if Saeki is telling the truth about never having a boyfriend before, then it seems like Saeki has spent so much time in the past focusing on studying that she didn't really have experience with boys. So MAYBE Saeki is only going out with Kasuga because she's curious about sex and love, and thinks that Kasuga would be easy to woo. But then the question is, would that make Saeki a pervert? I don't really think so, I mean.. they're just teenagers, so it's natural for them to be curious about sex and love.

HOWEVER, Nakamura's curiosity I think is taking it too far. It would be nice to see whether Nakamura's parents had bad relations, or find out if she was abused, to see what made her this way. But regardless, it's like Nakamura is curious about sex and love, but just doesn't want to personally involve herself in that stuff. Maybe she is afraid, which leads her to become a sort of voyeur or observer. With Kasuga, he's also an adolescent trying to come to terms with his emotions. Sure he talks about platonic love, but Nakamura raises a good point, is this how he really feels?

The fact that Kasuga is really into books and European literature is interesting too. The fact that Kasuga is so interested in literature and how he said "they made me realize how little I know about the world", really reminded me of myself as a teenager. Saeki's reaction to Kasuga talking about books was really mysterious. It's almost like Saeki is just playing along so that she can get closer to Kasuga. Come to think of it, the whole date did seem kind of "forced". Hmmm what is Saeki really thinking?! Is she just nervous or does she want something more?!

I knew it! The Titans swatted them down like flies like it was nothing! The most interesting bits in episode 5 were when the teacher talked about the Titans, and when Armin was talking about exploring the world outside the walls. They didn't really explain much that I hadn't already guessed, but I'm glad that they are taking the time to lay this stuff out explicitly.

Seeing the Titans eating humans never seems to get old. And neither does the bloody mechanical web-swinging action.

Is it bad that I don't care if Eren actually dies? All of the characters so far have been pretty flat. Perhaps this is some sort of meta-commentary on how viewers typically search for a "heroic protagonist" in fictional worlds and stories. And by killing off Eren, the creators are actually trying to show that flat, archetypal characters only exist within the confines of some story. That when the walls of the world to which these characters belong are broken down, and when they enter the real world (with the Titans), they don't stand a chance.

If that is the case, then wow this anime could be going some DARK places. There have been hints of fatalism, talk about how useless it is to try and fight against the Titans. Are they just prolonging their inevitable defeat? Well then you have to wonder, how exactly is it fun to watch something inevitable unfold? Definitely much to consider, I guess part of the reason I enjoy seeing the Titans eat humans is precisely because the Titans are eating these flat, archetypal, almost stand-in human characters.

Edit: Also I guess it doesn't hurt that the animation is really great.

Rainbow

Episode 4: "a big herd of dumb, slovenly seals." That was GREAT, I'll keep that in my vocabulary! I wonder if that was the exact wording in Japanese. The opening continues to captivate me. It's like adolescence screaming out triumphantly with pangs self-conscious remorse. It looks like each of the 3 main characters is going to get their chance at singing the opening (Kasuga, Nakamura and Saeki), maybe they will all sing together for the last 3 episode openings?

DAMN ,I felt myself wishing Kasuga would shout at Nakamura "GO AHEAD. TELL THE TRUTH, SEE IF I CARE." Like... at this point even if Nakamura let out the secret, Saeki might be able to forgive Kasuga anyway....Or not... Also I was tempted to say that a love triangle was forming. BUT it really doesn't look like Nakamura cares about anyone. For now I'll just stick with the idea that Nakamura just wants a plaything. Still it would be interesting to learn about Nakamura's family and past.

Well episode 4 was nice. Some pretty simple meaning-of-life topics to think about as Ledo talks to the Doctor and Babel. How Ledo, up until this point has been pretty much a narrow-minded automaton following the goal of defeating the Hideauze without really questioning it. But it looks like with that ocarina scene at the end, we get a glimpse of Ledo's younger brother?? (my guess) And a glimpse at why Ledo might have wanted to block out those memories and focus on a single goal, the goal of defeating the Hideauze.

The anime is pretty biased toward portraying Gargantia as a free, liberal state. Where people can follow their own goals, be happy and lead their own lives, get along etc. On the other hand the Galactic Alliance is portrayed as militaristic and totalitarian. Given the length of this anime, I don't think the anime is going to delve too much into those topics though.

Episode 4: Well things are starting to pick up pace. The rate at which almost everyone in the top 10 decided to follow Eren was kind of hilarious, but I didn't really expect much else. Just imagine the plot possibilities if Armin or some of the other guys decided to go to the Military Core instead of sticking with Eren and Mikasa. Then somehow later they reunite and share their stories about what happened, how life is like at the center as opposed to near the outside walls etc. Oh well, doesn't look like the series is really bothering too much about fleshing out life at the center of the walls.

Looks like it's focusing more on the ACKSHUN! Haha the peakaboo and wall-scaling at the end was pretty well-animated. And the forest training scene at the beginning was a nice contrast to the scene in the first episode where the Survey Group is facing an actual Titan. In this case Eren and the others are just facing dummies. Looking forward to see how they tackle the giant, red Titan next episode.

@rubberluffy: LOL took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about. Then I realized that the only relevant part of what you were quoting had nothing to do with my original post. It would have made more sense just to quote the part that you bolded. So basically your saying that the anime has already shifted from the pace of the manga, I think that's pretty obvious...

So it looks like Ledo is all business. Can't really say that episode 3 has surprised me with anything. Some of the animation for the battles and the water effects were pretty well done though.