321zigzag1 (Level 9)

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Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Snorlax vs Gray Fullbuster

@CrosswindVortex said:

@Destinyheroknight said:

@CrosswindVortex:

Heat Wave and Flame Wheel auto melt a Pokemon when frozen and PP that doesn't count for the Anime or Manga. So it wouldn't be a problem

Anime isn't even canon and Gray can easily decapitate Snorlax. Snorlax is not beating one of FT's strongest mages. This is just classic pokemon wank.

Yes and no. Anime like Manga is a separate Pokémon canon. Pokémon technically has 3 canon. Game is the more primary one but it is also swamped by game mechanics as well.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Pain vs Brain/Zero

@Beelzebub64 said:

Really? Where would you rank pain in FT?

I rank him at least Hades level.

Not all forums will agree though with my assessment. Although more do agree than not from what I have seen in my occasional extensive lurkings in the internet forums out of curiosity.

Those who don't forget that Pain's strongest jutsu are very lethal in FT and that they lack a counter to Gedo Mazo or its soul ripping dragon. Pretty much is Hades level of lethality in destructive power and hax.

As you can see here, there are those who say Pain solos Ft. I disagree but anyway.

Brain is clearly fodder. Preskip Jura beat him and Preskip Jura isn't that impressive by Akatsuki standards.

Zero on the other hand is pretty strong. However, I say top tier Akatsuki murks him.

If you allow Preta Path's absorption as nearly all forums will equalize energies, that's a very big negative to Zero. As u sual Shinra Tensei counters Zero's darkness magic as well and Zero being one person is subject to any potential blind flankings by Human or Asura Path and giant summon pressure. And of course Asura Path has missiles and giant laser cannon explosion,

Pain going all out is actually pretty scary if you think about it. We just never got to see it.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@Haiken said:

If Tobi or itachi wasn't banned.. each of them could Solo.. But with them banned, I say oracion seis wins with difficulty.. Racer can't solo, The fact that Grey and Leon was still able to keep up a bit while they are on his area of effect proves that akatsuki could move on equal speed even if they are under the spell of Racer, Remember that Ninjas have superhuman movement speeds and i say their speed is far superior than grey and leon..

Not sure on Itachi soloing since he is more suited to one vs one. Unless he does genjutsu to trick them into killing each other or overwhelming with speed.

Tobi only if he sticks to his kamui offense. Not because he is weak but his kamui offense is more suited to few at best vs. like 6 at once.

Pain should be quite too much for Brain.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Natsu Dragneel vs Alex Mercer

Didn't Mercer survive a nuke? Refresh my memory please.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@CrosswindVortex said:

@321zigzag1 said:

I'm using the most current Oracion

A long range attacker like Brain could sit on the other shoulder of Angel's summon and play sniper

Were they nerfed or something? They seemed stronger when they broke out of jail.

Aye, is that including the anime feats too?

Brain is featless in Post Skip. Other than Cobra one shotted him.

THey weren't nerfed. Its just base Jellal is handling them fine. Well minus Hoteye and Midnight.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@CrosswindVortex said:

@321zigzag1 said:

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

"Providing they aren't clones either. Providing Kisame doesn't merge with samehada. Konan can turn paper."

Assumptions, and situational. Konan can turn to paper you say, thats not an elemental dispersion technique. She has to will it for it to happen.

"Hidan, we know how that worked out with SHikamaru."

Irrelevent. What does an instance with Shikamaru has to do with the subject at hand?

The twin spirits can only stay that way for 5 minutes if I recall and have to touch Tobi."

Touch Tobi? I'm hearing that for the first time.

Not assumptions, but they are situational. Itachi and Deidara especially. WE have seen DEidara do jutsus while armless after all.

You know how naruto characters operate.

Its irrelevant because shikamaru cut his throat halfway yet did nothing? That's not how it works.

Read Fairy Tail Chapter 175 5-8.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

What different reasons?

Racer can blitz them. He slows his opponents down. No matter how fast they actually are, unless you know a way to counter the effect of the magic, you are not going faster than he is.

You operated under such belief. I desire reasons for such. PReskip Racer couldn't even properly blitz Erza then either. Unless he amps it up that is probably for her.

@321zigzag1 said:

Racer can blitz them. He slows his opponents down. No matter how fast they actually are, unless you know a way to counter the effect of the magic, you are not going faster than he is.

He only slows his opponent's perception down in a limited area. Take in mind Akatsuki members such as Itachi, Pain, Kisame, Tobi, and even Deidara reacted to high speeds or even shunshin. Deidara's case was Sasuke's shunshin.

Kisame with Bee and perceiving Gated Gai at a distance.

Pain with FRS and KN6.

Itachi kept up with Bee easily and KCM Naruto both.

Sasori's puppet reflexes was a blur to Post Skip Sakura until her medical training was suffice to counter with CHiyo's help.

KAkuzu had no problem with Kakashi.

Different levels of reaction for everyone. They operate higher than Natsu and Gray did at the time. In other words Racer needs more magic to overcome higher reaction and of course sharingan perception.

Distance also affects this as well.

In other words Racer is also situational like how you argued clones were. Except both are valid . But Racer's offense is largely poor and we know that and his knife isn't effective against most.

It will encourage Kisame to flood the area though and FT characters cannot walk on water.

Midnight can levitate

Cobra can fly via snake

Angel could fly on her angel monster summon she used against Grey and it's big enough to carry another person too

Cobra only because of the snake.

I am getting mix messages here. Is this preskip or postskip?

See that makes a difference.

Carrying another person isn't combat effective normally I believe.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

"Providing they aren't clones either. Providing Kisame doesn't merge with samehada. Konan can turn paper."

Assumptions, and situational. Konan can turn to paper you say, thats not an elemental dispersion technique. She has to will it for it to happen.

"Hidan, we know how that worked out with SHikamaru."

Irrelevent. What does an instance with Shikamaru has to do with the subject at hand?

The twin spirits can only stay that way for 5 minutes if I recall and have to touch Tobi."

Touch Tobi? I'm hearing that for the first time.

Not assumptions, but they are situational. Itachi and Deidara especially. WE have seen DEidara do jutsus while armless after all.

You know how naruto characters operate.

Its irrelevant because shikamaru cut his throat halfway yet did nothing? That's not how it works.

Read Fairy Tail Chapter 175 5-8.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

What different reasons?

Racer can blitz them. He slows his opponents down. No matter how fast they actually are, unless you know a way to counter the effect of the magic, you are not going faster than he is.

You operated under such belief. I desire reasons for such. PReskip Racer couldn't even properly blitz Erza then either. Unless he amps it up that is probably for her.

@321zigzag1 said:

Racer can blitz them. He slows his opponents down. No matter how fast they actually are, unless you know a way to counter the effect of the magic, you are not going faster than he is.

He only slows his opponent's perception down in a limited area. Take in mind Akatsuki members such as Itachi, Pain, Kisame, Tobi, and even Deidara reacted to high speeds or even shunshin. Deidara's case was Sasuke's shunshin.

Kisame with Bee and perceiving Gated Gai at a distance.

Pain with FRS and KN6.

Itachi kept up with Bee easily and KCM Naruto both.

Sasori's puppet reflexes was a blur to Post Skip Sakura until her medical training was suffice to counter with CHiyo's help.

KAkuzu had no problem with Kakashi.

Different levels of reaction for everyone. They operate higher than Natsu and Gray did at the time. In other words Racer needs more magic to overcome higher reaction and of course sharingan perception.

Distance also affects this as well.

In other words Racer is also situational like how you argued clones were. Except both are valid . But Racer's offense is largely poor and we know that and his knife isn't effective against most.

It will encourage Kisame to flood the area though and FT characters cannot walk on water.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@Low said:

@321zigzag1:

- Post time skip oracion seis is pretty much featless, except being able to gang up on a post time skip Jellal.

There is that anime arc. Which I think is semi canon from what I hear. Well we sort of get the current power of Post Skip OS is anyway.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1:

- Racer has a knife as his standard weapon. He can dismember pretty much everyone minus Obito, Zetsu and the mask guy (masks oon his back) and they'd be dead or helpless.

Which we both know he uses it wisely.

Only Itachi, Deidara, and Kisame. Providing they aren't clones either. Providing Kisame doesn't merge with samehada. Konan can turn paper.

Hidan, we know how that worked out with SHikamaru.

It obviously fails with Pain and Sasori too for different reasons.

And of course this is under the belief that Preskip Racer can blitz them.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1:

If its pre time skip, the girl has the other celestial spirit, which can clone almost anyone. If he clones Obito, then its pretty much game over for Akatsuki.

Tobi, Itachi, Deidara, Pain are banned. And for very good reason. Not just that Kisame and Sasori got gimped.

The twin spirits can only stay that way for 5 minutes if I recall and have to touch Tobi.

Akatsuki is quite significant much stronger than Preskip Oracion Seis overall as a whole group mines few tangents like the celestial spirit strategy and Brain and etc.

They are more comparable to Grimoire Heart and yet above them as well overall too due to mainly the top tier Akatsuki members especialy Tobi.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

So this is Post Skip Oracion Seis? Or Preskip Oracion Seis?

You didn't restrict Kisame's summoning a lake though and Giant Shark Missile. That and Kakuzu's hearts have great long range capabilities.

Sasori has become useless other than Iron Sand still lacking poison is a massive hindrance and that Akatsuki is quite gimped.

So this should be an interesting fight although I say Brain should be able to defeat them worst case scenario.

@Low said:

@nishi99: It took a lot of prep time for Konan to make those. Anyway, Oracion Seis wins. I dont know about everyone, but Racer guy solos. So does that guy who look like a rock.

Racer's offense is poor. Unless he gets a knife from the get go but that was back in preskip. He normally doesn't fight like that either. And most akatsuki aren't vulnerable to throat slitting.

Hoteye isn't soloing unless post skip feats have become massively more powerful.

By preskip standards he is very low tier Akatsuki at best. His offense is nifty and usefu and has good "all seeing eyes" but that's it. He lacks durability, strength, and movement speed feats. Like most mages he has high reaction and fights standing mostly still.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Fairy Tail vs Grimoire Heart (alternate)

@othus12 said:

@GIRUGAMESH: gildarts was handicapped in his fight against bluenote. that's why it seemed to be even. full powered gildarts should be able to take out hades with the help of laxus. especially since gildarts can stall hades long enough for laxus to use fairy law on him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hades was able to survive Preskip Laxus' level of Fairy Law.

Then again Laxus never bothered to use back then either.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs Barragan

@GIRUGAMESH said:

@taichokage said:

Oh hey GIRUGAMESH. I'm not sure I agree. That little black cube messes with space/time/gravity. The Hokage barrier does not. But I think your assement is reasonable.

Hey man, been gone a while due to work.

To be fair, tsukuyomi messes with them as well, doesn't mean it's going to take down god-tier opponents anytime soon. I'd always thought that was a load of hyperbole, how Aizen went on about it like it was some uber technique (I don't understand why he did, when a few chapters earlier, he pretty much dismissed kidou altogether). Urahara was not only using other lv90 hados, but was actually using them as mere decoys. The way that Ichigo just smashed it to bits makes me question if it could really pose a threat to someone on Juubito's level.

@Kobra678 said:

@GIRUGAMESH: Correct me if i'm wrong, but that barrier actually didn't hold in the Bijuu bomb. They couldn't hold it in so they released the top part of it so the blast would be directed upward.

That's true, but to be able to contain it at all (the bijuudama itself was contained, with part of the explosion being expelled) and to also remain intact is pretty impressive, especially since multiple earth barriers formed by the whole alliance did barely anything to stop a bijuudama of similar size. Point is, Juubito has more than enough physical force to compete with Bleach's best (he was also casually tossing around Sasuke's susano and BM Naruto).

Welcome back.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs Barragan

@othus12 said:

@321zigzag1: by soul society getting destroyed i think they were talking about the seiretei, rather than the outer areas. unless blut vene is now a planet level defense

This is what I believe, but strictly nothing prevents Kubo saying something and then the extremists harping on about it.

@phantomrant said:

@5th said:

Even with KS Aizen has no way of putting down Juubito, and a superficial illusion isn't going to stop five Bijuu Dama's from destroying everything in Juubito's path.

Juubito would outright destroy Aizen and Barragan together.

One Liner posters never bother to explain, after saything Aizen's KS. Not here mind you, the few forums that specialize in one liner answers that do.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs Barragan

@taichokage said:

Oh hey GIRUGAMESH. I'm not sure I agree. That little black cube messes with space/time/gravity. The Hokage barrier does not. But I think your assement is reasonable.

Well I suppose you can think of this way. I suppose its one of those cases when pure strength overrides some type of hax.

For example, Fairy Tail Bluenote's Black Hole. Magical in nature.

While it is possible it may possess actual infinite singularity, its so miniscule and tiny that a really strong attack should easily overwhelm and destroy it.

@othus12 said:

@xAvatarLegendx said:

@Scuber:Yamamoto from bleach is the strongest character in the HST. It was stated that his bankai could destroy the soul society, which is the size of a planet. He would almost instantly destroy earth. The reason soul society wouldn't be destroyed so quickly is because everything there is made up of reishi, which can withstand heat and spiritual pressure. The quincies and soul reapers weren't destroyed so quickly is because the quincies used blut vein and soul reapers are made of reishi.

i died a little after reading this.

I don't know. I just saw a thread in another forum majority saying Erza, Minerva, Kagura would defeat Itachi, Madara, and Hashirama. They weren't even one liners, they had actual standard arguments for it.

The difference is that planet sized soul society claim is actually plausible to claim no matter how nonsensical it is partly because Soul Society is unknown in size while Kubo can easily go about it and say it too.

The thread I just told you cannot be justified.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs Barragan

@xAvatarLegendx said:

@Scuber: It was stated that his bankai could destroy the soul society, which is the size of a planet. He would almost instantly destroy earth.

We don't know how big soul society is. As of this yet its not even come close to that side. Even the most extremist of Bleach fans almost never go that far.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Dark Shneider vs Shuma Gorath

@Low said:

@321zigzag1:

Should I ask that question on reality back to you? Fabric of reality is not just one. Generally it is thought encompassing the universe. Sise Neg, Death, or Strange cannot break break fabric of reality now? Plus you don't need to be universal to break reality.
To be honest though, Shuma Gorath in a different dimension is really matter of speculation in terms of how powerful he may be. He can be very weak to being pretty powerful.

Dark Schneiders biggest issue would be his limited range. His actual range appears to be limited but his spells are already on a multiversal proportion, capable of BFRing opponents across dimension and spells that destroy targets on an atomic, spiritual and astral level. Heck, Dark Schneider has recreated from memory an angel that he had destroyed in his Majin form. So certainly DS does not lack when it comes to creation feats as well (something which according to the serpahs is only something God could do).

As far as going infinity is concerned, Uriel and DS were dealing infinite blows at one point at the end of which DS shattered his Dispel Bound. Basically, theres a lot of things DS can do against Shuma here. So long as Dispel Bound holds, theres no way Shumas immortality is holding up, and beating up on that level of durability (universal accoding to you), not when DS can destroy your very being.

It is true he has BFR properties. And Shuma Gorath's main source of defeat as been banishment to another dimension.

According to me Shuma is universal? No I am saying that for Sise Neg. Then again some comic fans will say he is higher than that. Everything he did was better than DS.

He was going back in time collecting all the magical energies into himself. He succeeded into becoming God and rewriting 616 reality in the end.

In fact Shuma Gorath has enslaved hundreds of realms and dimensions by statement. In the classic marvel days dimension was synonymous to universe.

There are fans who say SHuma Gorath is multiversal or even Dormammu at his height is multiversal so but that is debatable. The former isn't that as much contested.

You do realize this fight isn't just Dispel Bound vs. SHuma Gorath's immortality? A Fight involves much more than that.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Dark Shneider vs Shuma Gorath

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

Dispel Bound is not everything I have as an argument. You might not have been listening, but didn't I say DS broke the fabric of reality? Aka big bang level explosion required behind it. Anyway, I quit because you don't appear to want to continue debating, simply due to Shuma being the superior entity, and I have no claim against that.

Should I ask that question on reality back to you? Fabric of reality is not just one. Generally it is thought encompassing the universe. Sise Neg, Death, or Strange cannot break break fabric of reality now? Plus you don't need to be universal to break reality.

To be honest though, Shuma Gorath in a different dimension is really matter of speculation in terms of how powerful he may be. He can be very weak to being pretty powerful.

"You don't appear to want to continue debating."

Not sure where you got that from, I was not trying to imply as such. I have forgotten much on DS anyway. It's nice to refresh yourself.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

Here's Lucifer explaining how much power it would require to break the reality between dimensions, which was what they were trying to do to break DS out. However, in the fight, DS dealt and tanked such realive force, easily explaining. Like I said before, if I am to simply accept nothing can be done against Shuma, then there is little use in trying to debate. The argument that Dispel Bound is invincible, as you put it, has more to do with the fact DS can keep it going for eternity given if Shuma is not able to attack as many times. DS's speed is so great, he was able to go towards infinity to break Uriel's Dispel Bound, emerging out as superior.

Here's DS dealing and taking reality busting attacks.

This feat, according to Lucifer, requires energy relative to the creation of the universe - Big Bang. Thats all I have to say here, really. Current DS, the one fighting Porno Diano, is even stronger. Hes putting out Galaxy busting+ attacks in a restricted state. If you want to debate on, I have said DS is not a mere galaxy buster. He casually destroys Galaxies.

Then what would you argue on DS at his full power?

"The argument that Dispel Bound is invincible, as you put it, has more to do with the fact DS can keep it going for eternity given if Shuma is not able to attack as many times. DS's speed is so great, he was able to go towards infinity"

Well I hate to break it to you but that's relative too.

Your argument hinges on that Shuma Gorath's volume of attack isn't greater than DS's output or speed of his attack or both or etc.

I will say this though, this is partly up to conjecture because Shuma Gorath isn't the same in all lesser realms in power.

Because infinite is relative itself. Contradictory it sounds like but true. Math is a good example.

I will say this if Dispel Bound succeeds then that is that I suppose.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Dark Shneider vs Shuma Gorath

@taichokage said:

Good debate guys. I'm not certain myself. I wish I knew more about Shuma. Sometimes wiki checking isn't enough. It essentially comes down to one point, which is stronger the unstoppable force (Shuma's energy eating) or the immovable object (Dispel Bound)?

Both are relative. "unstoppable" "immovable" are relative terms.

Heck I will use Math as an example.

In Math there are infinites but they aren't the same size in concept.

Prime Number infinite vs. Positive Numbers infinite? THe latter is more in quantity despite being both infinite.

The point is though Shuma Gorath at his best always operated on a much higher scale. Problem is that he has few appearances.

@Low

said:

@321zigzag1: Disregarding everything else, considering that he is multiversal+, am I to simply assume DS has no dominion over Shuma? Certainly you don't believe that when a stronger than Darsh wizard (though by behavior both DS and strange dwell in the same level of magic) beats on Shuma,

All you have is Dispel Bound.

What exactly do I have a reason to believe DS can do better than what Death the concept herself did in Cancerverse?

What exactly do I have a reason to believe DS can do better than what Sise Neg can do?

@Low said:

@321zigzag1: DS would not be capable of doing the same thing? Even Strange was taking dominion over foreign powers and beings in his path to supremecy, the exact same thing DS has done.

You are arguing more on concepts than just more on feats. Be more specific in what you are saying on what DS did. You say DS did what STrange did.

Show me. Surely it wouldn't be too difficult?

Just because they both did something similar doesn't automatically translate they are on the same level.

For example Avatar State Aang and Rikudo Sennin are conceptually similar. Yet by feats they are clearly not.

You seem to be going on a tangent DS being a magic user automatically grants STrange feats to him. Except feats are the most important.

All you argued was Dispel Bound and you first initially claimed it was invincible but then you admitted they can be broken. It's all relative.

Here I will start things off then.

Classic Strange fluctuates. Normally he would be weaker than DS by a strong margin but at his best he operates universal to beyond. For example he can be an avatar for Eternity. His power fluctuation also depends on his conjuring power.

Normally Shuma Gorath's showings on earth are pitiful to his real self in his actual dimension with the exception of Sise Neg. But I am assuming Shuma Gorath is at his best the neutral dimension can allow.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1: If I'm to simply accept based on nothing, I guess I should quit? lol. iight. I see how it is.

You never bothered to even counter Death example or Sise Neg example yet you call it nothing.

For what purpose?

Who told you it was nothing?

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Dark Shneider vs Shuma Gorath

Because Shuma Gorath has barely any fights and most of them are in his depowered state, we have to recognize that his is more based on statements and indirect conclusions partly.

@Low said:

@Saladking:

Okay, heres the deal. A sorcerer like DS managed to beat Shuma, someone with magic that Shuma is eating. Dispel Bound already blocks such trival attempts as eating energy.

@321zigzag1: Oh dispel bound can be broken alright. But, DS was constantly repairing any damage done to it (as they are literally various manners of shields) in a millionth of a second. Some of the shields outright ban certain aspects like power while there are blocks and stuff like that. Shuma is breaking them, but if he is not able to overpower DS's speed of reforming, eventually, DS will just win. He's survived an FTL battle with another Dispel Bound user, countering and repairing at the same time, this was likely slower than his actual speed which would be against Shuma as in this case, he does not have to deal with another Dispel Bound.

Equating Classic Strange at his best with Dark Schneider isn't going to cut it. Dormammu himself who is generally overall above him doesn't compare to Shuma Gorath (if you dispute that make a thread)

So now you say it can be broken? Then why did you say it can't be?

When Classic Strange went to fight Gorath, he was trained under Kaluu in the art of black magic and he surpassed him. Later Classic Strange merged with one of SHuma Gorath's minions, Arioch who was a dimensional god if I recall, who had the power to make himself powerful as he can imagine. (technically no limits fallacy but it speaks of Shuma Gorath's power indirectly)

Even then it didn't do anything so Strange proceeded to absorb Chaos Energy from Shuma Gorath and defeat him but in that process he started to turn into another SHuma Gorath himself.

Even with small portions of Shuma Gorath's power Strange was unconsciously destroying galaxies casually.

Already this is above DS.

The only thing you are hanging on is the whole Dispel Bound hax spell which is relative in its power itself.

If Sise Neg who was going back in time to the original source of the universe, who could destroy Strange with a mere thought self-admittedly, yet in all his powers over reality couldn't do anything to Shuma Gorath.

What does exactly DS has over? DS isn't close to Sise Neg who made Classic Strange overpowered as he is wet his pants.

All you have is this Dispel Bound route.

If you want a situation where Shuma Gorath in his lesser realms was killed off temporarily, it was in Cancerverse by 616 Death.

Except Death is very multiversal.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Dark Shneider vs Shuma Gorath

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

Whats the point of your argument though?

Take in mind that arguments work both ways.

You claimed that dispel bound is invincible and can't be broken by anything whatsoever, even in the multiversal multiple fictional context, which is something that is impossible to prove in any means.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

Unless Shuma proves he has adequate means to go through absolute defenses of this level, if you consider the concepts of the beings in question that DS has faced, Dispel Bound is holding up. Shuma has sort of lost to magical beings before.

Are there any beings comparable to Shuma Gorath in Bastard?

@Low

said:

@321zigzag1 said:

Shuma has sort of lost to magical beings before.

The list is very short, and nearly all of them were due to plot or sealing and some of them were by Dr. Strange sorcerer supreme.

For example Conan the Barbarian situation or nearly any Shuma Gorath appearance which are very few.

The strongest example is likely when 616 version of Death killed the entire Cancerverse including the 4 angular ones, one of them was Shuma Gorath. But even if he didn't die there.

Post by 321zigzag1 (637 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Dark Shneider vs Shuma Gorath

@Low said:

@CrosswindVortex: Dash negates immortality using Dispel bound.

Dispel Bound cannot be broken by magic, reality warping or any other force.

These statements are technically relative to the power level of the user.

@Low said:

@CrosswindVortex: Only a Dispel Bound can cancel dispel bound.

Just like "Only an Uchiha can defeat an Uchiha"

It's relative within multiversal context.

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