321zigzag1 (Level 9)

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Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Pain vs Zommari

@luthluth said:

@321zigzag1: The Nakara path was healed by the king of hell just like the Asura path

Nope if it was we would have seen it. We never saw that. What happened then after is unknown. We both not all bodies have similar durability but most of them tanked blunt sage attacks.

Asura Path is likely the most durable to an extent as raikiri failed to cut him even when he was heavily damaged.

Some have argued Deva Path though due to kn6 bijuu bomb.

@taichokage

said:

The Deva still had legs and a torso. Given that the paths are inanimate, their speed shouldn't be mitigated by reaching their "limit". They're zombies essentially.

Body damage hindering its effectiveness. Think of it as robots receiving enough damage that it affects its performance. Its a minor inconsistency in a way after dodging the FRS feat (the infamous FRS feat) although after shinra Tensei failed, Deva Path did actually collapse to his knees in that chapter before Naruto was thrown with the rasengan.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Pain vs Zommari

@luthluth said:

@phantomrant: Wow are you serious?! The Naraku Path got caught off guard and one shoted by a 12 year old. FAR Lessar bleach characters have are capable of so much more its ridiculous. Zommari was shown and stated to be the fastest in the Espada, he can make 5 solid clones of himself with speed but thats only " Bleach-exclusive".

And the next time we see Naraka Path, he was fine. The mini rasengan didn't do anything to him. He was defeated by double senjutsu rasengan. Same with Animal Path.

As for Deva Path, I call it damage cumulation. That body reached its limit. And what was the point of the Gillian feat? It has no connection here.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Pain vs Zommari

@taichokage said:

I hope you aren't indicating that Pain is near or greater than Zommari's speed. He couldn't avoid Naruto within 5 seconds.

One explanation I saw was that Deva Path by then "was exhausted and drained" from Nagato first. Plus the body was at its limit.

@luthluth said:

@hitsusatsu11: Zommari is fast enough to make solid clones of himself they even bleed after getting attacked. He has much better stats than the pain bodies who break apart from tree and wall level attacks. Zommari uses hax and gains control of the bodies

Zommari isn't an offensive destructive type.

Anyway tanking senjutsu enhanced punches and kicks are wall and tree level? Sage Rasengans are wall and tree level?

There is concentrated damage.

If Zommari wins its because of his unique hax. I say though Pain overall is quite a stronger character.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Erza Scarlet vs Rukia Kuchiki

@Haiken said:

Actually, if we put this at powerscaling with Mirajane.. Erza would be = Rukia or Erza just a bit below Rukia..

If we think about it, Mira should atleast be able to keep up with Rukia and send blasts that would probably be able to knock her off.. But Erza is shown as someone stronger or on par with Mira..

What is this all based on?

Also Erza is a close combatant. That's suicide against Rukia's shikai.

Unless someone wants to gauge Erza's strongest special armor.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Marco vs Ulquiorra

What was Marco's strongest destructive output?

Just a re@Haiken said:

@LHWKnight: I don't see LHW killing an Omni, LHW couldn't even scratch Tokimi at the time.. And the Chousins are far below EGD.. EGD seals omnipotents in a single slash with Shining trapezohedron, He actually imprisoned the creator of the Omniverse in their world.. We are far off topic now.. haha

Off topic but we also reached to the point where "omniverse" or "Omni" has relative perks behind it. All because writers don't think the same.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Snorlax vs Gray Fullbuster

@CrosswindVortex said:

@Destinyheroknight said:

@CrosswindVortex:

Heat Wave and Flame Wheel auto melt a Pokemon when frozen and PP that doesn't count for the Anime or Manga. So it wouldn't be a problem

Anime isn't even canon and Gray can easily decapitate Snorlax. Snorlax is not beating one of FT's strongest mages. This is just classic pokemon wank.

Yes and no. Anime like Manga is a separate Pokémon canon. Pokémon technically has 3 canon. Game is the more primary one but it is also swamped by game mechanics as well.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Pain vs Brain/Zero

@Beelzebub64 said:

Really? Where would you rank pain in FT?

I rank him at least Hades level.

Not all forums will agree though with my assessment. Although more do agree than not from what I have seen in my occasional extensive lurkings in the internet forums out of curiosity.

Those who don't forget that Pain's strongest jutsu are very lethal in FT and that they lack a counter to Gedo Mazo or its soul ripping dragon. Pretty much is Hades level of lethality in destructive power and hax.

As you can see here, there are those who say Pain solos Ft. I disagree but anyway.

Brain is clearly fodder. Preskip Jura beat him and Preskip Jura isn't that impressive by Akatsuki standards.

Zero on the other hand is pretty strong. However, I say top tier Akatsuki murks him.

If you allow Preta Path's absorption as nearly all forums will equalize energies, that's a very big negative to Zero. As u sual Shinra Tensei counters Zero's darkness magic as well and Zero being one person is subject to any potential blind flankings by Human or Asura Path and giant summon pressure. And of course Asura Path has missiles and giant laser cannon explosion,

Pain going all out is actually pretty scary if you think about it. We just never got to see it.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@Haiken said:

If Tobi or itachi wasn't banned.. each of them could Solo.. But with them banned, I say oracion seis wins with difficulty.. Racer can't solo, The fact that Grey and Leon was still able to keep up a bit while they are on his area of effect proves that akatsuki could move on equal speed even if they are under the spell of Racer, Remember that Ninjas have superhuman movement speeds and i say their speed is far superior than grey and leon..

Not sure on Itachi soloing since he is more suited to one vs one. Unless he does genjutsu to trick them into killing each other or overwhelming with speed.

Tobi only if he sticks to his kamui offense. Not because he is weak but his kamui offense is more suited to few at best vs. like 6 at once.

Pain should be quite too much for Brain.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Natsu Dragneel vs Alex Mercer

Didn't Mercer survive a nuke? Refresh my memory please.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@CrosswindVortex said:

@321zigzag1 said:

I'm using the most current Oracion

A long range attacker like Brain could sit on the other shoulder of Angel's summon and play sniper

Were they nerfed or something? They seemed stronger when they broke out of jail.

Aye, is that including the anime feats too?

Brain is featless in Post Skip. Other than Cobra one shotted him.

THey weren't nerfed. Its just base Jellal is handling them fine. Well minus Hoteye and Midnight.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@CrosswindVortex said:

@321zigzag1 said:

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

"Providing they aren't clones either. Providing Kisame doesn't merge with samehada. Konan can turn paper."

Assumptions, and situational. Konan can turn to paper you say, thats not an elemental dispersion technique. She has to will it for it to happen.

"Hidan, we know how that worked out with SHikamaru."

Irrelevent. What does an instance with Shikamaru has to do with the subject at hand?

The twin spirits can only stay that way for 5 minutes if I recall and have to touch Tobi."

Touch Tobi? I'm hearing that for the first time.

Not assumptions, but they are situational. Itachi and Deidara especially. WE have seen DEidara do jutsus while armless after all.

You know how naruto characters operate.

Its irrelevant because shikamaru cut his throat halfway yet did nothing? That's not how it works.

Read Fairy Tail Chapter 175 5-8.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

What different reasons?

Racer can blitz them. He slows his opponents down. No matter how fast they actually are, unless you know a way to counter the effect of the magic, you are not going faster than he is.

You operated under such belief. I desire reasons for such. PReskip Racer couldn't even properly blitz Erza then either. Unless he amps it up that is probably for her.

@321zigzag1 said:

Racer can blitz them. He slows his opponents down. No matter how fast they actually are, unless you know a way to counter the effect of the magic, you are not going faster than he is.

He only slows his opponent's perception down in a limited area. Take in mind Akatsuki members such as Itachi, Pain, Kisame, Tobi, and even Deidara reacted to high speeds or even shunshin. Deidara's case was Sasuke's shunshin.

Kisame with Bee and perceiving Gated Gai at a distance.

Pain with FRS and KN6.

Itachi kept up with Bee easily and KCM Naruto both.

Sasori's puppet reflexes was a blur to Post Skip Sakura until her medical training was suffice to counter with CHiyo's help.

KAkuzu had no problem with Kakashi.

Different levels of reaction for everyone. They operate higher than Natsu and Gray did at the time. In other words Racer needs more magic to overcome higher reaction and of course sharingan perception.

Distance also affects this as well.

In other words Racer is also situational like how you argued clones were. Except both are valid . But Racer's offense is largely poor and we know that and his knife isn't effective against most.

It will encourage Kisame to flood the area though and FT characters cannot walk on water.

Midnight can levitate

Cobra can fly via snake

Angel could fly on her angel monster summon she used against Grey and it's big enough to carry another person too

Cobra only because of the snake.

I am getting mix messages here. Is this preskip or postskip?

See that makes a difference.

Carrying another person isn't combat effective normally I believe.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

"Providing they aren't clones either. Providing Kisame doesn't merge with samehada. Konan can turn paper."

Assumptions, and situational. Konan can turn to paper you say, thats not an elemental dispersion technique. She has to will it for it to happen.

"Hidan, we know how that worked out with SHikamaru."

Irrelevent. What does an instance with Shikamaru has to do with the subject at hand?

The twin spirits can only stay that way for 5 minutes if I recall and have to touch Tobi."

Touch Tobi? I'm hearing that for the first time.

Not assumptions, but they are situational. Itachi and Deidara especially. WE have seen DEidara do jutsus while armless after all.

You know how naruto characters operate.

Its irrelevant because shikamaru cut his throat halfway yet did nothing? That's not how it works.

Read Fairy Tail Chapter 175 5-8.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1 said:

What different reasons?

Racer can blitz them. He slows his opponents down. No matter how fast they actually are, unless you know a way to counter the effect of the magic, you are not going faster than he is.

You operated under such belief. I desire reasons for such. PReskip Racer couldn't even properly blitz Erza then either. Unless he amps it up that is probably for her.

@321zigzag1 said:

Racer can blitz them. He slows his opponents down. No matter how fast they actually are, unless you know a way to counter the effect of the magic, you are not going faster than he is.

He only slows his opponent's perception down in a limited area. Take in mind Akatsuki members such as Itachi, Pain, Kisame, Tobi, and even Deidara reacted to high speeds or even shunshin. Deidara's case was Sasuke's shunshin.

Kisame with Bee and perceiving Gated Gai at a distance.

Pain with FRS and KN6.

Itachi kept up with Bee easily and KCM Naruto both.

Sasori's puppet reflexes was a blur to Post Skip Sakura until her medical training was suffice to counter with CHiyo's help.

KAkuzu had no problem with Kakashi.

Different levels of reaction for everyone. They operate higher than Natsu and Gray did at the time. In other words Racer needs more magic to overcome higher reaction and of course sharingan perception.

Distance also affects this as well.

In other words Racer is also situational like how you argued clones were. Except both are valid . But Racer's offense is largely poor and we know that and his knife isn't effective against most.

It will encourage Kisame to flood the area though and FT characters cannot walk on water.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

@Low said:

@321zigzag1:

- Post time skip oracion seis is pretty much featless, except being able to gang up on a post time skip Jellal.

There is that anime arc. Which I think is semi canon from what I hear. Well we sort of get the current power of Post Skip OS is anyway.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1:

- Racer has a knife as his standard weapon. He can dismember pretty much everyone minus Obito, Zetsu and the mask guy (masks oon his back) and they'd be dead or helpless.

Which we both know he uses it wisely.

Only Itachi, Deidara, and Kisame. Providing they aren't clones either. Providing Kisame doesn't merge with samehada. Konan can turn paper.

Hidan, we know how that worked out with SHikamaru.

It obviously fails with Pain and Sasori too for different reasons.

And of course this is under the belief that Preskip Racer can blitz them.

@Low said:

@321zigzag1:

If its pre time skip, the girl has the other celestial spirit, which can clone almost anyone. If he clones Obito, then its pretty much game over for Akatsuki.

Tobi, Itachi, Deidara, Pain are banned. And for very good reason. Not just that Kisame and Sasori got gimped.

The twin spirits can only stay that way for 5 minutes if I recall and have to touch Tobi.

Akatsuki is quite significant much stronger than Preskip Oracion Seis overall as a whole group mines few tangents like the celestial spirit strategy and Brain and etc.

They are more comparable to Grimoire Heart and yet above them as well overall too due to mainly the top tier Akatsuki members especialy Tobi.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Akatsuki Clan vs Oracion Seis (Fairy Tail)

So this is Post Skip Oracion Seis? Or Preskip Oracion Seis?

You didn't restrict Kisame's summoning a lake though and Giant Shark Missile. That and Kakuzu's hearts have great long range capabilities.

Sasori has become useless other than Iron Sand still lacking poison is a massive hindrance and that Akatsuki is quite gimped.

So this should be an interesting fight although I say Brain should be able to defeat them worst case scenario.

@Low said:

@nishi99: It took a lot of prep time for Konan to make those. Anyway, Oracion Seis wins. I dont know about everyone, but Racer guy solos. So does that guy who look like a rock.

Racer's offense is poor. Unless he gets a knife from the get go but that was back in preskip. He normally doesn't fight like that either. And most akatsuki aren't vulnerable to throat slitting.

Hoteye isn't soloing unless post skip feats have become massively more powerful.

By preskip standards he is very low tier Akatsuki at best. His offense is nifty and usefu and has good "all seeing eyes" but that's it. He lacks durability, strength, and movement speed feats. Like most mages he has high reaction and fights standing mostly still.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Fairy Tail vs Grimoire Heart (alternate)

@othus12 said:

@GIRUGAMESH: gildarts was handicapped in his fight against bluenote. that's why it seemed to be even. full powered gildarts should be able to take out hades with the help of laxus. especially since gildarts can stall hades long enough for laxus to use fairy law on him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hades was able to survive Preskip Laxus' level of Fairy Law.

Then again Laxus never bothered to use back then either.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs Barragan

@GIRUGAMESH said:

@taichokage said:

Oh hey GIRUGAMESH. I'm not sure I agree. That little black cube messes with space/time/gravity. The Hokage barrier does not. But I think your assement is reasonable.

Hey man, been gone a while due to work.

To be fair, tsukuyomi messes with them as well, doesn't mean it's going to take down god-tier opponents anytime soon. I'd always thought that was a load of hyperbole, how Aizen went on about it like it was some uber technique (I don't understand why he did, when a few chapters earlier, he pretty much dismissed kidou altogether). Urahara was not only using other lv90 hados, but was actually using them as mere decoys. The way that Ichigo just smashed it to bits makes me question if it could really pose a threat to someone on Juubito's level.

@Kobra678 said:

@GIRUGAMESH: Correct me if i'm wrong, but that barrier actually didn't hold in the Bijuu bomb. They couldn't hold it in so they released the top part of it so the blast would be directed upward.

That's true, but to be able to contain it at all (the bijuudama itself was contained, with part of the explosion being expelled) and to also remain intact is pretty impressive, especially since multiple earth barriers formed by the whole alliance did barely anything to stop a bijuudama of similar size. Point is, Juubito has more than enough physical force to compete with Bleach's best (he was also casually tossing around Sasuke's susano and BM Naruto).

Welcome back.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs Barragan

@othus12 said:

@321zigzag1: by soul society getting destroyed i think they were talking about the seiretei, rather than the outer areas. unless blut vene is now a planet level defense

This is what I believe, but strictly nothing prevents Kubo saying something and then the extremists harping on about it.

@phantomrant said:

@5th said:

Even with KS Aizen has no way of putting down Juubito, and a superficial illusion isn't going to stop five Bijuu Dama's from destroying everything in Juubito's path.

Juubito would outright destroy Aizen and Barragan together.

One Liner posters never bother to explain, after saything Aizen's KS. Not here mind you, the few forums that specialize in one liner answers that do.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs Barragan

@taichokage said:

Oh hey GIRUGAMESH. I'm not sure I agree. That little black cube messes with space/time/gravity. The Hokage barrier does not. But I think your assement is reasonable.

Well I suppose you can think of this way. I suppose its one of those cases when pure strength overrides some type of hax.

For example, Fairy Tail Bluenote's Black Hole. Magical in nature.

While it is possible it may possess actual infinite singularity, its so miniscule and tiny that a really strong attack should easily overwhelm and destroy it.

@othus12 said:

@xAvatarLegendx said:

@Scuber:Yamamoto from bleach is the strongest character in the HST. It was stated that his bankai could destroy the soul society, which is the size of a planet. He would almost instantly destroy earth. The reason soul society wouldn't be destroyed so quickly is because everything there is made up of reishi, which can withstand heat and spiritual pressure. The quincies and soul reapers weren't destroyed so quickly is because the quincies used blut vein and soul reapers are made of reishi.

i died a little after reading this.

I don't know. I just saw a thread in another forum majority saying Erza, Minerva, Kagura would defeat Itachi, Madara, and Hashirama. They weren't even one liners, they had actual standard arguments for it.

The difference is that planet sized soul society claim is actually plausible to claim no matter how nonsensical it is partly because Soul Society is unknown in size while Kubo can easily go about it and say it too.

The thread I just told you cannot be justified.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs Barragan

@xAvatarLegendx said:

@Scuber: It was stated that his bankai could destroy the soul society, which is the size of a planet. He would almost instantly destroy earth.

We don't know how big soul society is. As of this yet its not even come close to that side. Even the most extremist of Bleach fans almost never go that far.

Post by 321zigzag1 (644 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Dark Shneider vs Shuma Gorath

@Low said:

@321zigzag1:

Should I ask that question on reality back to you? Fabric of reality is not just one. Generally it is thought encompassing the universe. Sise Neg, Death, or Strange cannot break break fabric of reality now? Plus you don't need to be universal to break reality.
To be honest though, Shuma Gorath in a different dimension is really matter of speculation in terms of how powerful he may be. He can be very weak to being pretty powerful.

Dark Schneiders biggest issue would be his limited range. His actual range appears to be limited but his spells are already on a multiversal proportion, capable of BFRing opponents across dimension and spells that destroy targets on an atomic, spiritual and astral level. Heck, Dark Schneider has recreated from memory an angel that he had destroyed in his Majin form. So certainly DS does not lack when it comes to creation feats as well (something which according to the serpahs is only something God could do).

As far as going infinity is concerned, Uriel and DS were dealing infinite blows at one point at the end of which DS shattered his Dispel Bound. Basically, theres a lot of things DS can do against Shuma here. So long as Dispel Bound holds, theres no way Shumas immortality is holding up, and beating up on that level of durability (universal accoding to you), not when DS can destroy your very being.

It is true he has BFR properties. And Shuma Gorath's main source of defeat as been banishment to another dimension.

According to me Shuma is universal? No I am saying that for Sise Neg. Then again some comic fans will say he is higher than that. Everything he did was better than DS.

He was going back in time collecting all the magical energies into himself. He succeeded into becoming God and rewriting 616 reality in the end.

In fact Shuma Gorath has enslaved hundreds of realms and dimensions by statement. In the classic marvel days dimension was synonymous to universe.

There are fans who say SHuma Gorath is multiversal or even Dormammu at his height is multiversal so but that is debatable. The former isn't that as much contested.

You do realize this fight isn't just Dispel Bound vs. SHuma Gorath's immortality? A Fight involves much more than that.

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