321zigzag1 (Level 9)

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Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@supernova7005 said:

@OfficialRikudouSennin said:

and again juubito is more powerful then zaraki

Juubito is only small country level at best. Zaraki is beyond omnipotence ;)

@othus12 said:

OBD's Nardo wank destroyed! ;D

This means even casual city busting is a an impressive featl for Naruto top tiers

Well of course since, there are few destructive characters in Narutoverse relative to the whole. Juubito though is an anomaly of the anomalies for them.

Also its the perspective of Hiashi Hyuuga, take in mind too.

@eddz99 said:

@321zigzag1: Lolno, i said something, you said something about something that didn't even exist. And yes even if you don't admit it, it's an obvious error :P.

Yes and No.

Even in the end you could be right. You are the one who focused on IC Juubito first. Let's not take that away either. But anyway let us begones begones, then again since we were really discussing over nothing.

@taichokage

said:

Great points. But while I heavily question the country let alone continent level power, the blast to me looked city level not town level. And if the Jubi can set off 4 of those at once then it would probably be multi city/island level. However the Jubi's biju dama power seems a bit inconsistent to me. Some seemed stronger than others.

So how do you differentiate between city, mountain and etc etc.

Of course some seem stronger than others then again if we apply artistic drawing inconsistency, we have to do that for others. Hence why I said small country at best is possible. He isn't continent level unless he does something even more drastic and he needs a lvery long away to go there when casual country level isn't shown yet either. Which he should be able to in theory despite the massive power loss of 8 tails and of course Kyuubi but of course its kishimoto.

Its also the question of potency and also range.

@taichokage said:

I've said it before and I'll say it now. Naruto was, will be and probably is right now, the weakest of the HST. They seem stronger at the moment because Kishimoto pulled out all his top tiers whereas Bleach and One Piece have only slightly touched on their top tiers as of now.

Bleach is likely going to be the next one since its Kubo's last arc. With Soul Society King and all.

OP last with top tiers. Problem with OP is, they are less hax oriented at times but I could be wrong. (Law's fruit comes to mind)

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@othus12 said:

@321zigzag1: konoha its a village. a little one btw. everybody knows each other by name.

that city was supposed to be one of the biggies on the naruto world.

the blast might have looked smaller due to the distance but the power is still measured. its city level.

i dont even think the blast was city sized considering its a naruto city. if it were a toriko city where the population exceeds the 25 million people then we could talk about how it is above city level.

Take in mind city is a relative term too. Konoha should be assuming Kishimoto bothers to remember. 20 km or more. Because Forest of death radius is 10 km and the village is supposed to be bigger than that and of course we know authors don't scale.

No, it's better to measure by its first blast because kishimoto bothered to show its destructive range and height, and I cite that image I posted. 1st form Juubi destroyed casually a large mountain range and we are still talking city level? Unless of course depending on the size of the city too.

Toriko is like an exponent. Its planet is bigger than earth from what I hear. Won't be surprised if it works for city too.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@taichokage said:

Hundreds of mountains? I think that's a slight exaggeration. It looked like several dozen though. Maybe 30-40. I did underrate it though. I'd still sooner say large island or multi island level. I think country level is pushing it unless we're talking about micro nations. It was stated to be much lower than this as othus pointed out. Only called city level, although admittedly it appeared larger than that to me.

I like to further add that "City busting statement" was the third blast launched.. In other words Juubi launched first as shown in the image so it doesn't take away that feat in terms of ridiculous height and range.

Unless of course there was a town there too, and it was wide and long as the range suggests in the backgrounds. Then he launched a 2nd one but it landed in the water.

The third landed somewhere where a town happened to be within its range.

@othus12 said:

@321zigzag1:

episode 613

That's Juubi's third projectile blast launched in its 2nd form.

I am talking about its 1st attack, the massive one shown in the image I posted.

Regardless, because of the ridiculous height and range, being a mere city buster is too weak unless we should discuss a town that is that long. As you look at the image I posted earlier, its ridiculous. Also, we passed city busting at best long ago from Pain.

Sure the 3rd blast may have destroyed a city, but that doesn't denote it city buster only due to its range.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@othus12 said:

@supernova7005: that blast was city level. it was stated by a character.

Page number and chapter just in case?

@taichokage said:

Hundreds of mountains? I think that's a slight exaggeration. It looked like several dozen though. Maybe 30-40. I did underrate it though. I'd still sooner say large island or multi island level. I think country level is pushing it unless we're talking about micro nations. It was stated to be much lower than this as othus pointed out. Only called city level, although admittedly it appeared larger than that to me.

Hundreds of mountains is a bit of an exaggeration but I don't know of any better comparative term as of this moment.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2vrsv83.jpg

A nice image someone made, for interesting reference.

The thing, the gigantic bijuu bomb is supposed to be quite stronger than the one the back ground. Combine 4 of them hence the idea of small country.

But small country also varies too in size. That's why I said small country. Small, mid, or large all have broad categories.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@taichokage said:

I thought was only the dome also. Could be wrong but either way it's very big. But I can't see how a Lanza can be considered city level, yet they put Naruto at small country and Juubi and multi continent levels. The Juubi is one thing since its legend states it could lift continents (although it falls far short of that so far) but since when was Naruto anywhere near country level? The obd justification was that his biju dama was equal to 6 others combined which is true, but we know the destructive scope of a non Juubi/Kyubi biju dama is 1 mountain. While impressive, when did six mountains become country level I wonder.

Not just OBD, but some other places like MVC look at Juubito's 4 gigantic bijuu bombs produced from the tree in side Juubito's barrier. A single one which is supposed to be much greater than the 2nd form juubi which destroyed hundreds of mountains in the background. Put those 4 together, you can hypothetically argue for small country.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@taichokage said:

I'd say it's more just a giant city. Like sveral mid-large cities combined. Small country level is possible but I don't like to high ball feats. But yeah, even a normal human could walk at least a couple hundred kilometers in 3 days. I knew a former soldier who said he walked roughly 70 km a day for a period. Even Ive walked 20 km in a broken up period of about 4 hours.

Yeah I rather go with Juubito being more likely small country+ and up than Lanza. Country is also becomes a relative term definition especially these days.

@supernova7005

said:

@321zigzag1: Actually it is possible, considering Las Noches is large enough to have a climate of its own- including clouds and stuff. Also, it is stated that it takes 3 days to walk from one gate of LN to another, and in 3 days you can cross hundreds of kilometers if you walk even at peak human speed.

Though I myself don't consider it to be that large, I still think its a possiblity.

You sure that wasn't the dome?

I say Konoha is smaller though than Los Noches although Konoha should be longer than 20 km in comparison to forest of death radius of 10 km.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@supernova7005 said:

@othus12: Juubi is a small country buster - http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105334/3127410-011.png

Juubito > Juubi.

Btw some people argue that even Ulquiorra is a country buster, and Current Zaraki >>> Ulquiorra

The Ulquiorra one doesn't make any sense though. Unless Los Noches is a small country.

@othus12

said:

@OfficialRikudouSennin said:

Juubito is a country buster right now so this aint A MATCH ITS A SLAUGHTER!

show me juubito country busting?

It is possible to argue at least small country if you combined 4 gigantic bijuu damas launched from Juubito. Less powerful one in a 2nd form state before he changed into a venasaur like creatures dwarfed hundreds of mountains into the sky in the background.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@eddz99 said:

@321zigzag1

Then this debate "You" made shouldn't exist because it was you who looked at it wrongly, nobody else seemed to have the same perspective as you C:.

Did I not just tell you, I was ready to admit to any possible error?

Although I will say this, you have to understand this first. You said, something, I said something. Nothing else.

So I also sense a set of misunderstandings between us.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@eddz99 said:

@321zigzag1: You implied

""You just pretty much indirectly implied that Juubito is above overall because Juubito goes IC vs. Yamamoto goes bloodlust mode""

That i implied it, but i really didn't so in the end it was you who implied it. :3

Let's see.

I can see where you come from, but you said it or seemed to do so.

Take in mind I never truly stated my opinion on such matter.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@eddz99 said:

@321zigzag1 said:

Nope, i'm focused on them being the same on both scenarios.

Bloodlust = Bloodlust

IC = IC , get it?

Well it didn't look like you did based on that statement.

@eddz99

said:

@321zigzag1 said:

And what i meant by double standard is If juubito is bloodlust and yamamoto is IC, yamamoto would lose.

And where did I exactly mention this or imply this?

Hey if I did, I did, but I want to be sure or otherwise I did not.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@eddz99 said:

@321zigzag1 said:

@eddz99 said:

@321zigzag1: You're also basing it off IC and BL so double standard

And may I repeat I have yet to say on my thoughts on the matter of such match.

I was just going off on you said, or at least what I thought you said. You be correct, if I said anything on it but I didn't. I was only responding off of yours. Although I do not think I was, in a way I can see why you may think so.

Therefore.

Any plausible misunderstanding here especially from my part and possible double standards I readily admit to error. Good?

"You just pretty much indirectly implied that Juubito is above overall because Juubito goes IC vs. Yamamoto goes bloodlust mode" Where did i imply this? C:

If you insist.

Lolno. Even if juubito was faster, yama would still be the strongest since juubito would play with him in character ( juubito would have wiped out the whole shinobi alliance if he wanted to ), and in bloodlusted, yama activates his bankai directly.

You appeared to seem to quite focus on bloodlust Yamamoto and IC Juubito, hence my original response.

That is why.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Killer B VS all Fairy Tail Guilds

@ninja2170 said:

@321zigzag1: I was thinking with his ability lowering killer bee states to a child's would make the battle more like happy versus killer bee

and im pretty sure it affects everyone so it should work I think that's all it takes.

I am not doubting it will, my concern is the bijuu form. How is child's state would affect his manefistng bijuu form is the question.

@DBZ_universe

said:

@321zigzag1: true, also is not fast enough.

Jellal's guild (with Ul) could take it since of his kill spells, and Meredy's magic. Killer kills her he dies.

You mean Crime Sorciere as a whole?

Although we haven't seen his strongest spell Star Destruction its capability.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Killer B VS all Fairy Tail Guilds

@ninja2170 said:

@321zigzag1: and what about doriate? I was wondering your opinion .

I believe Killer Bee will have his hands facing Makarov titan form or Gildarts either alone although Bijuu form's spamming bijuu bombs could make a difference but we will see. Although I believe Bee should defeat both one on one, as of this time being. Although fairy law by hype can change things.

Doriate? He isn't much of a threat really in my opinion to bijuu form although laws of natural regression affecting that is another topic.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Killer B VS all Fairy Tail Guilds

@ninja2170 said:

@321zigzag1: body restriction was used on Lucy (I think in the movie) but that being used plus fairy law and glitter and rustyrose could have just have underestimated his opponents and makroval has a lot of powerful spells and Minerva is very powerful and if that dosent work then just bring in doriate.

Rustyrose never was in the movie so. Makarov's best spell is fairy law, its just we never saw its max capacity. Its limited to the user's skill. In fact Hades implies it has limits when he stated clashing of both laws would end up worst conclusion.

Underestimation or not, his best spell was Tower of Dingir and also he went all out against Bixlow and Freed so he doesn't have much of an excuse.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Killer B VS all Fairy Tail Guilds

Way too much for Hachibi.

@ninja2170 said:

@bigz007: or lucy could create gemini and duplicate killer bee while kurohebi copies Gemini and creates killer bee also while rustyrose creates another killer bee or use body restriction magic.

Gemini has to touch Killer Bee and has time limit.

Kurohebi copies magic but Killer Bee focuses on taijutsu and kenjutsu with ration channeling, useless ofr him.

If Rustyrose could have imagined a copy he would have done it by now, but he never did. What body restriction?

@UltimateHero0406 said:

Pretty sure Erza can take him by herself.

Worst comes to worst. BIjuu form.

@DBZ_universe said:

Fairy Law

Maybe by hype but featwise I don't see it bringing it down a Tailed Beast.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@eddz99 said:

@321zigzag1: You're also basing it off IC and BL so double standard

And may I repeat I have yet to say on my thoughts on the matter of such match.

I was just going off on you said, or at least what I thought you said. You be correct, if I said anything on it but I didn't. I was only responding off of yours. Although I do not think I was, in a way I can see why you may think so.

Therefore.

Any plausible misunderstanding here especially from my part and possible double standards I readily admit to error. Good?

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@eddz99 said:

@321zigzag1 said:

By the way in all seriousness was this debatable?

@eddz99 said:

@flamesaber said:

@supernova7005:I suggested 3 of them to make an account

juubito has long range attacks,he is also faster than yama,he could kill him before using bankai.

Lolno. Even if juubito was faster, yama would still be the strongest since juubito would play with him in character ( juubito would have wiped out the whole shinobi alliance if he wanted to ), and in bloodlusted, yama activates his bankai directly.

You just pretty much indirectly implied that Juubito is above overall because Juubito goes IC vs. Yamamoto goes bloodlust mode.

You are basing it off IC and BL and character matchups as a more representative effect.

Lolno, try to understand more, i'm saying that yama wins both in IC and BL what i meant was if yama was IC and juubito was IC yama would win, on the other hand if yama was BL and juubito was BL yama still wins, you are also basing it off IC and BL because juubito wins if he is BL and yama was IC.

Double standarad.

The way you worded it made it seem like it so. Or I just poorly read it. Much of it is likely the latter from my part so that is my error.

Although take in mind you should know. I did not make a real statement on Yamamoto vs Juubito. You did. I didn't or I made it seem I implied something. I was just replying to your statement that was all. So not a double standard as much when I had yet to say anything on my part minus likely miscomprehension of yours.

Unless of course you want me to state on what I think on the match.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Hashirama vs Garp

@TheNeutralOne said:

There's some real speed. Moves so fast the ground breaks just from speed alone. No other naruto character can replicate those kinds of speeds and that isn't even close to the level of speeds you are putting them on.

While I get your point, you are also attributing to artistic effect in a way. And also key point, Part 1 Rock Lee isn't a top tier speedster. BM Naruto and Juubito never made those yet Kishimoto shows them way light years ahead of Part 1 Rock Lee.

That supersonic attack has been heavily debated and its up to you, its split.

@taichokage said:

That's true. Let us not forget that Gai himself stated that his 7th gate form was only supersonic and that was his punch. Given that a punch is faster than typical movement speed, it's a stretch to even say 7th gate is supersonic as a whole. Anyway Supersonic is anything between Mach 1 - 5. Gai is maximum Mach 5 and that's in 7th gate. Lee who could not use 7th gate, at least not at the time would be slower than that. Let us also not forget that Kishimoto himself said that if guns were in the Naruto world, they would dominate over the shinobi. Now of course I wont assume that's true for any top tiers revealed after he said this including Hashirama, but that gives you a good idea of the speed and level that the overwhelming majority of Naruto characters fall under. These speed calcs of Mach hundreds and thousands are completely ridiculous and contradict both character statements and author statements as well.

First of all there are two translations on that.

One says supersonic. Other says, friction made from fire. I like the 2nd one better because it seems to be more accurate in the feat showings and plus supersonic kind of contradicts.

Raikage and KCM Naruto are supposed to be faster than 6 Gated Gai yet they don't make flames.

And also key point, fire from friction is very likely a hypersonic attack or low hypersonic or higher at least usually.

Also your guns statement is a misunderstanding. Kishimoto said kunai and shurikens couldn't compete but more importantly ruin the ninja likeness of it. Instead you just get a regular modern shooter manga shonen like any other. Not as unique. Even if he indirectly stated it as I show here.

Firstly, projectile weapons such as guns aren’t allowed. (The one exceptionis Inari’s bowgun.) Guns aren’t suited to ninja. Gunpowder is used in the anime,though I don’t think it should be there. And, vehicles such as aeroplanes arenot allowed. I try to restrain technology that can be used for war... Forexample, if missiles were in it, it’d be the end. (laughs)

Firstly, that interview is very old. In fact I recall it being a decade old at least. 2nd, he seems to implu more on ninja likeness and finally being a very old interview, its not a fair accurate representation of now. Kishimoto is a human and people change minds. If he intended guns to be superior which is only implied a little at best here even then that's debatable, things are way different now. You see Asura Path's missiles and other hax jutsus that are worse than missiles (well depending on the missile).

Finally Pain's rasenshuriken feat makes me think that supersonic+ was a legit established feat in that series if supersonic airwaves wasn't convincing.

then again it doesn't change that majority of naruto characters including fodder are not supersonic but likely subsonic at best. But it doesn't detract the plausible handful ones.

@5th said:

@TheNeutralOne said:

And yes, generally no one in Naruto isn't even supersonic, but Hashirama and Madara have proven otherwise because they're TOP TIERS.

Yes most aren't or at least subsonic range. But I dare say high tier speedsters can plausibly break that mark.

Anyway reaction feat wise it should be known strong hypersonic reactions in the top tier at least exist.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

@taichokage said:

Help! Just kidding. Coming right up.

I like this link as well.

If you do not mind good sir.

Post by 321zigzag1 (650 posts) See mini bio Level 9

Battles » Juubito vs. Zaraki

By the way in all seriousness was this debatable?

@eddz99 said:

@flamesaber said:

@supernova7005:I suggested 3 of them to make an account

juubito has long range attacks,he is also faster than yama,he could kill him before using bankai.

Lolno. Even if juubito was faster, yama would still be the strongest since juubito would play with him in character ( juubito would have wiped out the whole shinobi alliance if he wanted to ), and in bloodlusted, yama activates his bankai directly.

You just pretty much indirectly implied that Juubito is above overall because Juubito goes IC vs. Yamamoto goes bloodlust mode.

You are basing it off IC and BL and character matchups as a more representative effect.

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