Amateur vs. Expert: PERSONA 4 #8

Topic started by Guest_Author on Nov. 28, 2011. Last post by LifeByDegrees 2 years, 11 months ago.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,648 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@advkow:

I don't think my partner Nick's taking it too far. He's expressing his view on things. You can't argue with a person's experiences. They are just telling you how they feel about the matter from their perspective. I may not completely agree on the level of it, but he has valid points. I respect his passion for it.

@Babylonian:

I could actually buy Yu being teasing with Kanji more that Yosuke. One of the ways you tell someone is teasing is from their expression. We've already established that isn't Yu's strong suit. He tends to play along with whatever the current mood is. Even encouraging Kanji to run into the girl's tent.

We saw this in last weeks episode. Though he would say he was willing to just let it be, as soon as one of the girls told him they should move forward. He was just as passionate about following their lead.

@zaldar:

Kanji is one of the more positive interpretations of a sexually ambiguous character. He may be into guys to some degree, but he's also a tough dude who takes care of his mother and helps out little kids in need. What's not to respect about that? No matter which way he swings, Kanji's an upright dude in my book.

Post by Hailinel (76 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@mutha3 There's already a Blu-ray?
Post by mutha3 (17 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Hailinel said:

@mutha3 There's already a Blu-ray?

Yep. Came out on 11/23. Also includes the full versions of Beauty of Destiny and Sky's the Limit(both have hilarious lyrics, so they're well worth youtubing).

It only had Episode 1 on it though. It was a director's cut type of deal, 3 extra minutes of animation. Sadly, the animation doesn't look much better at all like FoxxFireArt had hoped.

Post by CH3BURASHKA (5 posts) See mini bio Level 4

@NickRobinson: I'm totally with you on the Kanji homophobic scene. In the game, you were given a choice, and seeing as how Yosuke was very vocal about not being gay-raped, the only real option was to bring some balance to the situation and say you feel safe with Kanji. Kanji is insecure enough that a single voice calling out his sexuality would have been more than enough to set him off - he didn't need two people ganging up on him, calling him a rapist. And I don't buy the "they were making fun of Kanji" argument - there was no indication it was so. I, too, may have yelled something at my monitor. Yosuke was already homophobic, but they could have made Yu much more accepting.

Post by AURON570 (572 posts) See mini bio Level 15

screw sitcoms. It's funny that this could be considered filler and a break from the main action of the mystery, but it was also so fast-paced with how much they crammed into it.

Post by rolvtd (4 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@CH3BURASHKA said:

@NickRobinson: I'm totally with you on the Kanji homophobic scene. In the game, you were given a choice, and seeing as how Yosuke was very vocal about not being gay-raped, the only real option was to bring some balance to the situation and say you feel safe with Kanji. Kanji is insecure enough that a single voice calling out his sexuality would have been more than enough to set him off - he didn't need two people ganging up on him, calling him a rapist. And I don't buy the "they were making fun of Kanji" argument - there was no indication it was so. I, too, may have yelled something at my monitor. Yosuke was already homophobic, but they could have made Yu much more accepting.

There was no indication he was joking OR being malicious as Yu = best poker player ever. It's not arguable that Yusuke was serious considering his mannerisms and way of speech. Nick himself put it best:

Yu is entirely unable to emote unless being prompted. It adds this incredibly strange meta bent to the show where the protagonist pretty much only reacts to things at times when the game would've prompted you to make a dialogue choice. As a reult, Yu almost never talks, but when he does, he's often picking the least "safe" conversational decision possible. It's crazy, but it's also an incredibly unique and interesting way to characterize what could've been a total blank slate of a character. Kudos to them on that.

Personally, I think that Yu is the personification of Player Character. Since he has almost no expression, it's up to the viewer themselves to fill in the blank on his intentions. In this case, if what he said is slightly(or more) offensive, then you may be offended by that kind of thing no matter what the circumstances and vice versa.

Post by FoxxFireArt (2,648 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@mutha3:

I don't see how I could check out the quality of a product that has only been out in Japan for less than a week. I try to avoid pirates sources, unless it's for VIZ Media based series.

Post by Little_Socrates (45 posts) See mini bio Level 10

I think setting up Yu as homophobic at this point will lead to a better transformation of the character later. Being exposed to Naoto will probably help him grow. I think they actually want the main character to have an arc. It's the one negative trait of Yu at this point other than his womanizing, but I'm happy to roll on that train so long as Naoto's appearance cools him off.

I'm shocked, really, that my complaints were previously downplayed and as soon as I'm thrilled about an episode you guys complain about the same things I do! I thought this was the best episode yet; the Teddie transitions are out of place, but that episode actually felt like an event would really play out. It has its highs and its lows, just like any real school trip. That is about as far as anybody seems to have gotten in Naoki's social link, and this felt like a great way to accomplish it. Meanwhile, putting an investigation sequence we'd have to have AFTER this point into the camping trip also helped the episode feel less filler-y and saves us time when Rise's investigation does happen next episode.

I think we may be coming to this series for different things at this point. I wish I could define what it is I'm looking for in the series, but this episode seemed to absolutely nail the balance I've been wanting. Persona 4 IS a series of mini-events more than it is one continuous storyline, and I liked that being added to the pacing.

Post by Hailinel (76 posts) See mini bio Level 11

Things I've learned from this conversation so far:

  1. There's apparently already a Blu-ray of the first episode out with additional footage, which is cool, but I'll wait for the western release.
  2. Some people are taking the treatment of Kanji's character far too seriously. You'd honestly think that the staff was perpetuating a hate crime judging by some of the reactions in here.
Post by Daroki (86 posts) See mini bio Level 9

I think the biggest problem is that Yu is set with a pretty dry sense of humor, and it's like sarcasm over the internet in that sometimes it doesn't translate well. I'll be really impressed if at some point they start evolving the Personas of the characters and a clarification of, "Dude, I'm just messing with you, we're cool" becomes the Rank 10 plot point between Kanji and Yu.

Post by MohsinMan99 (1,777 posts) See mini bio Level 21

Seems like people are getting a bit too worked up over Yu's personality. In my honest opinion, it looked like the staff was just trying for a few laughs with that line.

Post by mutha3 (17 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Hailinel said:

  1. Some people are taking the treatment of Kanji's character far too seriously. You'd honestly think that the staff was perpetuating a hate crime judging by some of the reactions in here.

Literally no one has been saying that. I'll quote Nick for a second:

And yeah, a final note on Kanji's treatment this week: I don't think I'd call it "malicious," just "irresponsible." Having the characters tease Kanji for being gay is just the absolute laziest. I get that they'd write Yosuke this way, because let's be honest: Yosuke is the worst! But having Yu ask Kanji whether or not he can safely share a tent with him without risking being sexually assaulted just seems totally at odds with his character. Maybe I'm projecting, but I prefer to think of the Investigation Team as a relatively progressive group of kind young kids who accept each other's insecurities, not as as a relatively progressive group of kind young kids who accept each other's insecurities unless they're about homosexuality. If this is what P4A's producers think of as an acceptable treatment for Kanji, I shudder to wonder how they're going to handle some of the later Naoto stuff.

His treatment is dissapointing compared to the game, that's pretty much what people have been saying.

Post by PewPewLazers (15 posts) See mini bio Level 6

Pretty much everything about how I feel about the Kanji situation has been discussed already in some form so I'll leave it at that.

@MohsinMan99 said:

Seems like people are getting a bit too worked up over Yu's personality. In my honest opinion, it looked like the staff was just trying for a few laughs with that line.

Well he actually has one now so there was always bound to be a few ruffled feathers in that regard.

But he's very much like Yosuke at the moment, which makes sense they are bro's after all. But eventually his development will actually lend credence to Yosuke's feelings of inferiority towards Yu as the story progresses, well depending on how much time they decide to dedicate to it.

Post by Gerhabio (38 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Kanji was supposed to nosebleed as he saw Charlie and Yosuke in their trunks, not after!

It annoys me that the anime version makes out Kanji's sexuality less ambiguous than the game and leans on bicuriousity by a heterosexual kid more heavily. For me, Kanji will always be gay/bisexual and awesome.

Post by zaldar (1,295 posts) See mini bio Level 15

@mutha3 said:

@Hailinel said:

@mutha3 There's already a Blu-ray?

Yep. Came out on 11/23. Also includes the full versions of Beauty of Destiny and Sky's the Limit(both have hilarious lyrics, so they're well worth youtubing).

It only had Episode 1 on it though. It was a director's cut type of deal, 3 extra minutes of animation. Sadly, the animation doesn't look much better at all like FoxxFireArt had hoped.

Sigh so three days after out they are all ready on you tube...that is just sad. Does no one actually support the industry by you know BUYING stuff anymore. Sigh

I agree Kanji is overall a positive interpretation of a sexually ambiguous character as I would say Naoto is also though both you can say don't go far enough in some ways (the way to get Naoto from not falling in love with you in game for example)

Still loving the show @Gerhabio remember he says himself in the game when he is confronting his shadow that it wasn't about boy or girl but fear of rejection. I rewatched that scene in the endruance run and I really don't think they toned it down that much...in both the girls think the nosebleed is from them and so kick him into the water....and they both saw his shadow and what was on the midnight channel.

Post by FoxxFireArt (2,648 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@Gerhabio:

I just watched that on Giant Bomb, and the nosebleed didn't appear until after the guys were kicked into the water.

@zaldar:

I do buy the media. Just as long as it's not been censored.

Post by Hailinel (76 posts) See mini bio Level 11

@mutha3 said:

@Hailinel said:

  1. Some people are taking the treatment of Kanji's character far too seriously. You'd honestly think that the staff was perpetuating a hate crime judging by some of the reactions in here.

Literally no one has been saying that. I'll quote Nick for a second:

And yeah, a final note on Kanji's treatment this week: I don't think I'd call it "malicious," just "irresponsible." Having the characters tease Kanji for being gay is just the absolute laziest. I get that they'd write Yosuke this way, because let's be honest: Yosuke is the worst! But having Yu ask Kanji whether or not he can safely share a tent with him without risking being sexually assaulted just seems totally at odds with his character. Maybe I'm projecting, but I prefer to think of the Investigation Team as a relatively progressive group of kind young kids who accept each other's insecurities, not as as a relatively progressive group of kind young kids who accept each other's insecurities unless they're about homosexuality. If this is what P4A's producers think of as an acceptable treatment for Kanji, I shudder to wonder how they're going to handle some of the later Naoto stuff.

His treatment is dissapointing compared to the game, that's pretty much what people have been saying.

But Nick also admits that he was likely projecting, and different people have different views of who these characters are. I mean, I don't see Yukiko as being particularly progressive; I see her as being more traditional in terms of older customs due to her upbringing, just like I don't see Kanji as necessarily being gay.

Post by fluxwavez (4 posts) See mini bio Level 6

This was the episode I enjoyed the least and a part of that was the Kanji tent scene. In retrospect, it actually does seem that Yu might just be joking around, but I would still have preferred it if it was only Yosuke who was averse to Kanji's perceived sexual orientation, just like in the game. Kanji's Shadow episode plus this one just made it seem like the writers are just using Kanji's repressed feelings as a joke, which I don't like too much. Just like Nick, I'm curious to see how they handle Naoto, because that character's the other one with gender issues in Persona 4.

Post by chickdigger802 (39 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@FoxxFireArt: out of curiosity, which ER eps was this eps?

Post by fluxwavez (4 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@chickdigger802 said:

@FoxxFireArt: out of curiosity, which ER eps was this eps?

Episode 50.

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