Persona 4: The Animation Forum

I'm still beyond disappointed there won't be a "secret" 26th episode next week with the "true ending." As least with it going to video, maybe we'll get multiple versions of the Xmas event so no one will be disappointed about who he ends up in a relationship with.

Also, I'm disappointed at the lack of the infamous Adachi meme:

Just having seen the ending to 25th episode, not only are they doing the True Ending, they seemed to tease the NG+ fight with Margaret as well (just like I hoped!).

Can't wait!

Based on some Crunchyroll forums, episode 26 is going to be an OVA and will air August 22, 2012.

@AlKusanagi: I'd also enjoy scenes involving the Christmas date and I share your disappointment at the lack of Adachi's most famous line. Although, going from just the episodes, I think that Yu (and subsequently, the writers and producers) had the most feelings for Chie, which I'm fine with because she's my favorite character. I say this because out of all the girls, she's the one he got the closest to, romantically. In episode 15 (school trip), they would have kissed if they hadn't been interrupted in traditional harem anime style. He didn't get that close with any of the other girls.

@Emeryl: Personally, I've felt he's shared the most meaningful moments with Yukiko. That's why I hope they do multiple ones, since everyone probably has their own opinions on the matter. Otherwise I imagine the show will probably go with its Naoto bias, or some kind of troll version with Yusuke.

I messed up on one point in the article. I meant when Near showed that Light's name wasn't in the fake Death Note. I think it's pretty funny when Nick spoiler tags events from anime and manga that happened almost ten years ago.

@Emeryl:

Well, for one thing. OVAs aren't really ever aired. OVAs are direct to market sales. Also, even if it was made into an OVA. That's kind of a possible bad news thing. OVAs are not known for being released in the US very often. FUNimation did release a lot of the FMA OVAs as a collection, but that was years after they aired. The P4 DVDs have been coming out pretty quickly in Japan. One a month and they are already up to seven volumes. We'll be able to tell pretty soon if the last one has any extra content. Nick and I can also try and contact either The Anime Network or Sentai Filmworks if they know anything,

Chie was one of my favorite girls from the series. I loved watching her use God Hand in the finale. As Yu was the leader of the team and the guys, Chie was the de facto leader of the girls.

@AlKusanagi:

I never even knew that was a meme. I never saw that Japanese version of the game to know, but I kind of doubt that line was even in that version. It could have just been an English dub creation.

@zaldar:

The punching scene was more about Yosuke feeling bad about being jealous of Yu. Hitting each other was Yu's way of expressing that they're equals. One isn't better than the other, because you'd never take a swing at someone you felt was your better.

@Dunchad:

I don't know if that's Margaret. That image could just be Izanami.

@FoxxFireArt said:

@Dunchad:

I don't know if that's Margaret. That image could just be Izanami.

I'm pretty sure it's Margaret. Izanami has a pretty different look after all and wears all white, after changing outfits. And what's more, if you go back in the anime, we get to see "it" during a previous episode - it has a line of dialogue and the voice is that of a male. Where as here, it sounds like Margaret - though I didn't recognize the dialogue from the game. It had a different spin to it ("It's unfortunate it had to come to this. Farewell."). In the game, she's much more eager and positive about the fight.

@Dunchad:

Oh, I thought you were talking about a different image. I hadn't seen that one.

@FoxxFireArt: I was just quoting what I read in a Crunchroll forum, so I can't guarantee the authenticity of the "true" ending episode and should not be taken as a subject expert. If it turns out to be true, then I hope that it will be brought over with the rest of the series (which I'm also hoping will happen).

As for Chie, I was fist-pumping when she did that move. I usually like the action-girls and tomboys more than the dainty princesses and ditzs in any medium and feel bad when they are pushed to the background, romantically or in terms of the plot (like Tatsuki, she still doesn't have any sort of powers but her getting any is a pipe dream now. Wasted potiential Kubo, wasted potential).

Edit: I'm glad that we all got to see everyone's "true" personas. I wasn't necessarily worried that we wouldn't, but I wondered how they would work them in.

…I’m sorry. Just apologizing for the length of this in advance. I’d make this concise, but unfortunately I don’t have the time to polish it the way I’d wish to do. Mea maxima culpa…

When in the TV World, the first rule is to never judge a person’s character solely on the word of their Shadow. 1. Now if you failed to realize that Adachi has a Shadow, your conclusions are more understandable. 2. However similar they are, Adachi’s Shadow is only that darkest and most hidden part of his personality, and it is as absurd to conclude from it that Adachi is a sociopath as it is to conclude that Chie thinks of Yukiko as nothing but her footstool.

1. I’m not actually sure how you managed to miss the distinction between the two, especially because I know that you’re familiar with the game. The cues are easier to pick up on—Shadow Adachi had stronger facial contrast and deformed features as do all the human Shadows, whereas Adachi’s portraits look the same as they always have, even in the TV world. The two major differences between other Shadows that Adachi’s does not initially exhibit are yellow eyes and a layered voice—both which we see once Adachi has become Shadow-possessed, along with the customary Shadow auras (the blue glow, the explosion of darkness before a battle…). And these are only the visual clues. Rise remarks that the ‘Adachi’ they meet in the noose room isn’t the real one, he’s a Shadow Projection—Teddie confirms this, and so does the Shadow itself, who differentiates between ‘this me’ and ‘the real me’. Of course most of that is only in the game, but the anime gives enough of the same clues that you still ought to have figured it out.

Adachi’s power in the TV World derives from his Shadow-possession: because he has been overcome by that side of himself rather than integrating it in a healthy way, the Shadows don’t recognize him as an enemy (Shadow Adachi says that they have the same goals), and in fact treat him as an extremely powerful Shadow. Shadows can summon and control other Shadows, as in the anime version of Rise’s dungeon, or the two manly men who accompanied Shadow Kanji. This is why Adachi can command the Reapers. I also wonder if it’s that same power which allowed him to bring up the images of Kubo, Namatame, Konishi, and Yamano, if some remnant of their Shadows remained in that world?

As an aside, if you’re in the TV World, you should never tell a villain character that they only amount to their worst aspects, because they will become Shadow-possessed, and that doesn’t help anyone—and to say so is ultimately a disservice to humanity. In Adachi’s case, you could have only gotten through to him with a figure he respects. Since none of the Investigation Team are close friends with him, the only real option here is to shame him out of the TV by having Dojima talk with him. And I sincerely think that if Dojima had gone into the TV, Adachi would not have set the Shadows on him, and he might have been coaxed out because—

2. Adachi is not a sociopath, he’s just regular depressed and full of self-hatred. Only it manifests as hatred towards everything else, which again, is a classic example of Shadow Projection. The man is sabotaging himself, take a look at how he acts at work, and is trying his best to die—when the Investigation Team took away the one thing he had left, the confidence of Dojima, that’s when he jumped into the TV knowing that he’d never get out, and he’s been courting suicide ever since. I assume you know that he doesn’t qualify as a sociopath just for being an unrepentant murderer, or even not having any particular reason for killing people besides his own satisfaction. Insane, yes, but sociopathy is an accusation that excludes guilt and most emotions. As you noted, sociopaths don’t understand emotions the way other people do. But Adachi not only consistently displays emotion, he also shows care and remorse (if only to the Dojima family—I suspect that’s a side effect of giri in response to Dojima’s repeated kindnesses), as well as a genuine grasp of the emotions of others.

Quickly put, he is genuinely worried about Dojima after the car crash, and if you noticed, pulled him out of the car. He lets Yu out of the interrogation room when there is no benefit for him (he didn’t need to tell them about Namatame specifically, either). He leaves the door open for the team to murder Namatame in revenge for Nanako’s death, when Namatame’s ‘suicide’ would be blamed on Adachi’s negligence and would have left him jobless in a difficult economy. He’s emotionally shattered when confronted with the reality of his crimes, and he feels genuine fear all the time. Not in the anime, but in the game, he apologizes for Dojima’s injuries—it’s just that no one recognizes it as such at the time. He confesses to the murders even when it would be extremely easy to deny everything, not for his own sake.

There’s more, I won’t bring it all up, though. How, then, do we explain the fun he has watching others suffer, or the lack of guilt towards the murders? First remember that much of that is just his Shadow talking, and second that the Shadow is indeed a part of himself, and third that Adachi murdered those women because he became Shadow-possessed in the real world—this time using the standard psychological definition. There is a part of him that is murderous, there is a part of him that believes they deserved it. There’s a part of Yukiko that hated her Inn and there’s a part of Yosuke that used Saki as an excuse to be a hero. Adachi isn’t actually comfortable with being a murderer, he just can’t escape the fact that he is, so he forced himself to get over it. There are some destinies that can’t be changed—un-murdering people, or undoing a life-changing mistake—neither of those can be reversed by introspection. Adachi’s answer is to distract himself from how much his own life sucks by humiliating other people—and if they die, he’s still a murderer, so…

TL;DR Adachi has a Shadow and isn’t a sociopath.

Also, Chie knew it was Inaba because Moel Gas.

Also also, Team could have saved Saki in Episode 2, didn’t.

@zaldar:

He needed to die? You're okay with telling a suicidal person that they're horrible and need to go die?

I'm not really onboard with the 'Teddie is Adachi's Golden Shadow' theory. In what way do you see Teddie in Adachi?

As for having a Shadow, if he doesn't have one, then how can you say that he becomes possessed? Adachi's Shadow is tame from the beginning because he's already convinced of the worst of himself but has yet to fully succumb to it, just as everyone on the team rejected their Shadows from the start but had yet to shout "You're not me!"

Oh, Mayumi's was definitely a crime of passion. Saki's less so, he hadn't actually been planning to kill her, but by that point he'd defined himself as a murderer and didn't feel anything when it was done. However, you only know that a part of him doesn't regret those murders. It's not to say he does, he may not and we'll never really know, it's just to say that your're judging him on a Shadow's word. What we do know is that he doesn't like being called a criminal, and that he also doesn't allow himself to deny it. But the easiest way to disprove sociopathy in the anime is the look on his face after Dojima crashes--after he's pulled a bleeding Dojima from his car--or the look on his face when Dojima is trying to kill Namatame and he intervenes, and then is willing to sacrifice his career if it means that Namatame will pay. That sort of thing doesn't speak to a person who's only concerned with their own interest. I think we have to agree, that a sociopath can't care for others.

Not saving Saki is just one of those ironic things--they were in the TV at the same time as her, and it's genuinely sad that they didn't meet up, or that Igor doesn't turn back time for her TV dungeon because she's not plot essencial.

Edit: Here's an actual sociopath's TV dungeon.

I did like how they had the team visit the murder scenes and I loved how they used the Reaper (optional boss in second playthrough of the game) as the enemies that Adachi attacked the group with. I'm sadly still trying to get over the 'true ending is a DVD exclusive episode' thing though. It'll be redundant when it does come out, because the last episode will have shown Yu leaving Inaba already.

@zaldar: @NIveous:

I'm still leaning toward sociopath. Remember that Adachi only didn't originally enter the TV world because he didn't know there was a way out alive. That was before he knew that Yu and his friends were able to come and go. He just didn't know how. they did it. I don't think he was attempting suicide.

As a sociopath can mimic emotions. The same was with how Adachi had a copy of Yu's Izanagi. Sociopaths can still have fits of rage. It's because they are psychologically all Id. They are about their desires and wants.

@Emeryl:

Agreed. I love Tatsuki in BLEACH. I really wish she had been more involved. It really seemed as if Kubo was gong to do something with her, but never did.

@FoxxFireArt said:

@zaldar: @NIveous:

The same was with how Adachi had a copy of Yu's Izanagi.

Magatsu Izanagi isn't a copy of Izanagi. Yes it's similar, but Adachi didn't get to pick what his persona looked like.

Adachi represents reversed Fool, so Magatsu Izanagi is literally Adachi's Persona. He didn't pick Izanagi to fuck with Yu.

Hey Nick and Kristoffer. I don't spend a lot of time here on Anime Vice, but I wanted to talk about Adachi a bit, since that was the part of the game I really loved. There's SPOILERS for the hypothetical episode 26 given what should be explained there if it continues to follow the game, but I've tried not to spoil the events of episode 25.

Adachi being a sociopath is a little easy. I get where you're coming from, but I felt there was a little more to it than that. Adachi's main tenet, as it were, is nihilism. He legitimately does not care about whether he lives or dies, the people around him or what others consider about him. That he only follows his Id and pursues his own desires is an aspect of that, as is the rampant misogynism, his suicidal tendencies when things look bleak and the ressentiment (e.g. his talk about being the best but getting stuck in the boonies instead) he uses to justify his actions. The reason this makes him an effective villain is because it's an utterly undetectable trait, and the day-to-day Adachi seems perfectly able to live a lie of general contentment and occasional goofiness. This point is emphasized in the game when Izanami describes her three "champions" as one of despair (Namatame, who is rarely not panicked or distraught), one of friendship/compassion (Yu) and one of "nothingness" (Adachi). The Kubo character, though, seems like the casebook sociopath, right down to the tantrums and an apparent lack of empathy with anyone's feelings.

I'm with Nlveous somewhat about his shadows: Adachi's shadows are completely under his control, hence why he's able to get them to distract the others, but the reasons for that should be elaborated on in the next episode when a certain psychedelic eyeball makes his appearance. Suffice it to say, he doesn't actually have a Shadow: Like Yu, he didn't need one.

Adachi has a darker version of Yu's persona because they're both Fool Arcana and were both "blessed" by Izanami (yet again, this is probably something that'll come up in this BS bonus episode of theirs when she sums up practically every loose thread), Izanagi's opposite and partner. If you hadn't played the game, though, there's no way you'd know that. I'm only spoiling it here because it doesn't appear to be included in the series proper.

I did like how the show handled Adachi's long "I did it" monologue into the show, layering it in with the dungeon crawl. I guess they used Reapers because they've been escalating the difficulty of the regular enemies each time they've used some and we're only left with those bad boys, who are the game's version of superbosses. Well, besides Margaret. I also got the impression that Yu figured the killer out first (right at the end of the previous episode in fact) and took a roundabout route to meet Adachi in the hospital, while Naoto probably made sure she was absolutely correct with her deduction before heading there herself with the gang in tow. It's neat, because it allows both Yu (canonical with the game) and Naoto (who should've really deduced it first, given her background) to independently solve the case.

@zaldar: He is a reverse shadow. The game and anime say so.