Amateur vs. Expert: PERSONA 4 #10

Topic started by Guest_Author on Dec. 12, 2011. Last post by Hailinel 3 years ago.
Post by Guest_Author (0 posts) See mini bio Level 7
Staff

Welcome to Amateur vs. Expert, a new column wherein noted anime layperson Nick Robinson (Babylonian) squares off against anime savant Kristoffer Remmell (FoxxFireArt). The goal? To take our two columns, Anime Amateur and Anime Examiner, and combine them for your reading pleasure. Let's get started!

Kristoffer Remmell:

Happy days, Persona 4 The Animation is back on the tracks after the derailment of it's animation in the previous episode! This looked far better and didn't have long pauses of no motion and flapping lips. Let's try and put that behind us and hope the issue never comes up again. This episode about gave me a fan-gasm. (Pun intended, given the setting.) So many cool moments were realized from the game in this anime. Even down to Shadow Rise scanning the Persona to avoid attacks, the stat screen it showed for weakness and strengths, the lesser Shadows reflecting, and Teddie went Over 9000. Don't even get me going on how cool Kanji was here. The music is seriously making me consider ordering the soundtrack.

I've been holding off on a theory until I was sure. I have some thoughts on the Shadows and the Personas. There could be a deeper meaning behind their design. I notice how all the Shadows say the same thing upon their release, "I am the Shadow, the true self.". Are these really the embodiment of our dark side, or what we fear people will see us as if they ever see us stumble? I see that people often try and find the negative side in others. When we see a darker side of someone, don't we often assume that this is who they really must be? Why do we jump to the conclusion that this one bad moment sums up who they really are rather than our overwhelmingly positive experiences? It's the embodiment of tabloids. Is that's why this is all taking place in a TV world? Yukiko thought people would see her as an ugly bird trapped in a cage, Yosuke's fear was being an obnoxious monster, Chie thought people would see her as a sadist for her joy of being needed, Kanji thought people would see him as effeminate for his hobbies, and Rise worried people would see her as an attention.... grabber (nice version). It's then the Persona that embodies what they want to become. Yukiko's a free and beautiful bird, Yosuke's a flashy hero, Chie's a knight, Kanji's a manly warrior with a cute skull mark, and Rise's an elegant performer.

Last episode you talked about Rise using "-kun", and "-sempai" for Narukami. Those were really no big deal. Chie was calling him "-kun" from episode one. What is a big deal that I noticed. Yu was calling Rise just by her given name, and at the end she called him "Yu-kun". Now, it's not too odd that Yu would say her given name since she's younger. He does the same thing for Kanji. I also don't recall Yu using honorifics much at all for anyone. It is very interesting that it's Rise who starts using his given name. I guess we see which point of the romantic side this series may be taking. She's far from my personal choice. I'd prefer Chie. I just find the super popular girl falling for the average protagonist terribly cliche.

Nick Robinson:

Yeah, this week's episode was fantastic. All my past quibbles aside, one thing they've done a really good job with is characterizing the Investigation Team. Rise's more appealing than she was in the game, Yu is hilarious, and I'm starting to agree with you that Kanji stands out more in this show than he ever did in the game. I think it's one of the strongest aspects of P4A, actually - despite it's huge and ever-growing main cast, everyone seems to stand out pretty nicely.

Weirdly, I had the same observation as you about the Personas this week, albeit only about Rise - it struck me that it must've been deliberate how Rise's Shadow is symbolic of promiscuity and trashiness while her Persona is so elegant and sophisticated-looking. I didn't think to extrapolate that juxtaposition to everyone else's Personas, but I totally agre your conclusions. Each cast member's Persona seems to be the opposite of their Shadow in a lot of ways. Maybe this is something we should have picked up on in 2008 when the game came out, but better late than never, I guess!

Like you point out, there was a ton of really potent fanservice in there, and I don't mean all the Shadow Rise stripping stuff (which: really, Japan? She's a high schooler, for Christ's sake!). We got to see Rise's fantastic-looking rainbow Shadow boss monster thing, flat Teddie, Shadow Teddie, and all the other stuff you mentioned that's lifted right out of Persona 4. It was, as always, strangely rewarding just to see recognizable little things from the game reappear in animated form, and I really enjoyed it.

Which brings me to another observation: there were a couple times in this week's episode where I took a step back and thought, "Man, if I had no idea what Persona 4 was, I'd be so confused right now!" But taken solely as a piece of entertainment for intended preexisting P4 fans (which, really, is the only vantage point we've got), I think this show is solid. P4A is a blisteringly paced adaptation, but it's one I mostly enjoy, and this episode was it at its best.

Kristoffer Remmell:

I've been forming that theory ever since Chie and Yukiko's Shadows appeared in the series. The cast don't obtain their Persona from overcoming their Shadow, but by accepting them. One of the many things that I admire about manga and anime series of this scale is that you can really dig into the symbolism. You can look deeper and find much more was put behind design rather than "it looks cool". These writers invest real thought in telling a larger narrative, and don't try to answer all questions in a single episode. There's more happening behind why this mystery is taking place, and I think Yu is starting to pick up on this. You can't get that out of a lot of Western series of comics or cartoons.

A great starting moments for this episode was Yu mashing on the record button of his remote. It figures that the signal didn't record. He should've gotten that HDMI cable. I love how they've been using that recording the show gag since Yukiko's appearance on the Midnight Channel. The whole stripper thing was a bit out there given her age, but it's not as if they ever actually showed anything. It was symbolic of her entire celebrity, idol identity. In the end, they saved Rise but another dead body is still found.

Sure, if you were to jump into Episode 10 it could seem really confusing. But if you were starting at episode one, I'd think a person would grasp what was going on. Much in the same way people who played the game don't know the whole story right away. A murder-mystery should be obscure. You aren't suppose to understand everything that's going on. The cast sure doesn't. How is this really stretching the bounds of disbelief more than anything out of Star Wars or Lord of the Rings? All the game details just add an extra layer of appreciation for the fans of the game, and the people who are inspired by the anime to get the new PS Vita version will get a kick out of the things they remember from the anime. Do we have any readers that never played the game or watched the Endurance Run having a hard time following? That's the real test.

Nick Robinson:

Dude, the opening bit with Yu, mouth agape, jamming on the record button: top 3 funniest moments of this show so far, no doubt. For whatever reason, I thought that was the funniest thing in the world at the time. And while we're on the subject of recurring gags: man, they sure are getting every ounce of mileage possible out of the Groucho glasses, aren't they? And to clarify about the stripper stuff: my distaste is less towards the show's producers and more directed at everything about the vaguely pedophilic cultural juggernaut that is Japanese pop idol culture. There's this unignorable undercurrent of creepiness to all that stuff, and it's a vibe I can't shake whenever I happen upon a Morning Musume video or whatever. That's a topic for another time, though!

I love the way that P4's design aesthetic dictates that while everything should (and does) look cool, it shouldn't just look cool. From the limo to the enemy designs, pretty much every aspect of Persona 4 is not only stylish as hell, but also stands up to psychological scrutiny. Don't ask me what, but someone somewhere was probably trying to say something when they sketched out a giant pig in cop's clothing with a rotating key in its chest cavity.

Speaking of the visual style, it's probably worth mentioning that this episode looked excellent, especially in light of last week's occasional visual hiccups. Considering the high density of action in this episode, you might expect this to be the kind of episode where they'd finally have to cut some budgetary corners on those high-intensity action scenes, but nope! They looked as good as ever. Also, I have to say that ten episodes later, I'm still in love with that crazy video artifacting effect that they use on "dying" Shadows.

It seems pretty likely that this episode will be remembered as one of the best of the series. The pacing seemed crazy at first, until I remembered that this was that dungeon, and the quickness at which stuff moved suddenly made sense: they had two whole Shadows to fit in! Which is great, because I find the show's depiction of Shadow battles vastly preferable to the drawn out, repetitive, boring combat sequences they were in the game. I think it's great that the Personas in P4A stick around for the battles instead of just appearing long enough to cast a spell like they do in the game. Also, a quick aside about the relationship stuff: I am admittedly totally one of those CHARLIE AND CHIE 4 LYFE weirdos, but in just a couple of short episodes, P4A's producers have successfully sold me on the Yu/Rise pair. That's quite a feat!

You're probably right that a non-P4 fan who's been watching the show since the beginning would probably have their bearings by this point in the show. I think anime fans are more acclimated to inscrutable weirdness than the average person, so all this TV nonsense would probably be a lot easier for them to swallow. I do think it's a bit weirder than Star Wars or LOTR, if only because P4 purports to take place in our world; solving a murder mystery in modern day Japan suddenly becomes a much tougher prospect when the fundamental laws governing whether or not people can climb into TVs are no longer in place. Still, like I said, I think it's something anime fans can capably handle. Actually, If I remember right, a couple of AV users who have commented on our past articles mentioned that they're coming into this show blind, and they're keeping up just fine. On to the next one!

Kristoffer Remmell (FoxxFireArt) is a freelance graphic artist, writer, and over all mystery geek.- Follow for news updates: @ animevice / @ FoxxFireArt

Nick Robinson (Babylonian) is a Whiskey Media intern and a journalism student. Won't you follow him on Twitter at @Babylonian? He'd be ever so appreciative!

Post by Hailinel (76 posts) See mini bio Level 11

"Like you point out, there was a ton of really potent fanservice in there, and I don't mean all the Shadow Rise stripping stuff (which: really, Japan? She's a high schooler, for Christ's sake!)."

Really? You're going the "Oh, Japan!" route for the depiction of a fragment of Rise's personality based on a twisted aspect of her psyche?

Talk about taking the lazy way out.

Post by fluxwavez (4 posts) See mini bio Level 6

Wait a minute... I haven't finished reading, but have any of these two writers played the game (I'm basing that off of Remmell's Shadow speculating)? I can't imagine how it would feel watching this without having played Persona 4 beforehand.

And I agree with Hailinel. I did have a problem with Kanji's Shadow sequence, but not because of the Shadow itself. Rise's Shadow suits her just fine as do all of the others (except for Yosuke's which I still have difficulty figuring out).

Post by YotaruVegeta (612 posts) See mini bio Level 12

I think this episode, for me, has proven that this is not really a show for a Persona 4 noob? Why do I say that? Teddy. Teddy has not been around not nearly enough for us to feel the impact of his semi "heel turn" When I got to this moment in the game, I was like "oh no, Teddie!"` How much have we seen Teddied in this anime? Maybe 4 times? They don't just hang out in the TV world and talk to Teddie like in the games.

It was still cool, don't misunderstand me. Oh, and speaking of Teddie

Was the final boss actually a part of Teddie's shadow self in the game? I'm pretty sure he wasn't but that is a cool inclusion.

I loved the Yu gag at the beginning of the episode, too. You realize it's going to be a gag, but for a millisecond, I wondered.

Back to not selling your characters, I don't think we've gotten enough of our victim, King Moron.

Post by mutha3 (17 posts) See mini bio Level 6

my distaste is less towards the show's producers and more directed at everything about the vaguely pedophilic cultural juggernaut that is Japanese pop idol culture. There's this unignorable undercurrent of creepiness to all that stuff, and it's a vibe I can't shake whenever I happen upon a Morning Musume video or whatever. That's a topic for another time, though!

I share that distaste, honestly, but Shadow Rise is supposed to directly address that aspect of Japanese culture, y'know? It sure doesn't glorify it, because Shadow Rise is pretty much spawned from her line of work.

I love the way that P4's design aesthetic dictates that while everything should (and does) look cool, it shouldn't just look cool. From the limo to the enemy designs, pretty much every aspect of Persona 4 is not only stylish as hell, but also stands up to psychological scrutiny. Don't ask me what, but someone somewhere was probably trying to say something when they sketched out a giant pig in cop's clothing with a rotating key in its chest cavity.

That man has also written extensive paragraphs of text on why he drew stuff the way he did! Gives some great insight in the development of P4 as well. Here's something nice for ER fans: Soejima claims that Chie was one of the first characters to have her design finalized and she's also the character who extensively set the retro tone for the entire game.

I though the episode was a little rushed, like the others. I did really enjoy the scene where Teddie was sinking in the nebula while talking to his shadow-- that was a nice piece of imagery. And, DAT KANJI SEQUENCE. SO GOOD.

Oh, and guys, if you're interested in what non-P4 fans think about this anime, keep in mind-- you guys aren't the only to have come up with the innovative idea of writing about anime on a weekly basis! There's plenty of blogs online for that.

Post by Hailinel (76 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@YotaruVegeta

I think this episode, for me, has proven that this is not really a show for a Persona 4 noob? Why do I say that? Teddy. Teddy has not been around not nearly enough for us to feel the impact of his semi "heel turn" When I got to this moment in the game, I was like "oh no, Teddie!"` How much have we seen Teddied in this anime? Maybe 4 times? They don't just hang out in the TV world and talk to Teddie like in the games.

It was still cool, don't misunderstand me. Oh, and speaking of Teddie

I loved the Yu gag at the beginning of the episode, too. You realize it's going to be a gag, but for a millisecond, I wondered.

Back to not selling your characters, I don't think we've gotten enough of our victim, King Moron.

The final boss in P4 is not a part of Teddie.
Post by Petiew (244 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@Hailinel: It's never really stated what happens exactly, but Rise says that a powerful presence intervened when Teddie's shadow appears. It's obviously not the true final boss, but what they showed in the anime is plausible.
Post by Babylonian (16 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Staff

@Hailinel said:

"Like you point out, there was a ton of really potent fanservice in there, and I don't mean all the Shadow Rise stripping stuff (which: really, Japan? She's a high schooler, for Christ's sake!)."

Really? You're going the "Oh, Japan!" route for the depiction of a fragment of Rise's personality based on a twisted aspect of her psyche?

Talk about taking the lazy way out.

You're right! There was absolutely no evidence of the male gaze directed at a 16-year-old girl in this episode. It's not like they've managed to show Rise in a bikini in every single episode she's appeared in so far - even the first one, which she wasn't even actually in! Nope, nothing weird going on here. Also, while we're on the topic: adult men watching K-On! and fawning over 14-year-old cartoon girls, calling them their "waifus" and stuff? Nothing uncomfortable about that either!

The blatant sexualization of teenagers is something I openly resent about anime, and while P4A is far from the worst aggressor, but I don't think we need to go around awarding this show any medals for its treatment of Rise. You're right that in the context of this episode they aren't really cheerleading for any of this stuff, but man, they sure did take every opportunity to show off this kid's body, didn't they? So far, she's practically spent more time undressed than dressed, and while I expect that to change as this show goes on, it's not like Rise's been the only victim of this - if you weren't made at least a little bit uncomfortable by the slow, lingering pan up Chie and Yukiko's bikini-clad bodies during the field trip episode, our standards for the appropriate depiction of 16-year-old girls are apparently pretty different.

@mutha3 said:

my distaste is less towards the show's producers and more directed at everything about the vaguely pedophilic cultural juggernaut that is Japanese pop idol culture. There's this unignorable undercurrent of creepiness to all that stuff, and it's a vibe I can't shake whenever I happen upon a Morning Musume video or whatever. That's a topic for another time, though!

I share that distaste, honestly, but Shadow Rise is supposed to directly address that aspect of Japanese culture, y'know? It sure doesn't glorify it, because Shadow Rise is pretty much spawned from her line of work.

I agree that it doesn't quite glorify it, but there has been so damn much naked Rise in this show so far that it's hard to know where the satire ends and the unironic eroticism begins. It kind of reminds me of the Kanji stuff, in some ways - it kind of undercuts your point when you. I think it's undeniable that P4A has utilized Rise as a tool for fan service at least a little bit, and it undercuts their point somewhat. It's self-sabotaging, just like having Kanji embrace his complex sexuality at the end of one episode only to be mocked by the rest of the cast for being 'gay' one episode later.

@mutha3 said:

I love the way that P4's design aesthetic dictates that while everything should (and does) look cool, it shouldn't just look cool. From the limo to the enemy designs, pretty much every aspect of Persona 4 is not only stylish as hell, but also stands up to psychological scrutiny. Don't ask me what, but someone somewhere was probably trying to say something when they sketched out a giant pig in cop's clothing with a rotating key in its chest cavity.

That man has also written extensive paragraphs of text on why he drew stuff the way he did! Gives some great insight in the development of P4 as well. Here's something nice for ER fans: Soejima claims that Chie was one of the first characters to have her design finalized and she's also the character who extensively set the retro tone for the entire game.

Whoa, really? That's awesome! If you have a link to his explanations of some of his character designs, I'd really love to read it!

I've got that art book that came with Persona 4, and there's a lot of those preliminary character sketches to be found in there. It's insane how different Kanji looked at one point. Like, not even the same dude!

Post by AlKusanagi (9 posts) See mini bio Level 6

I'm seeing the Yu/Yukiko relationship being the main one. Rise throws herself at him because that's her personality, but there seems to be an actual connection with Yukiko. As much as I love her, Chie seems to be coming off as pretty asexual in the show.

PS. Leave Morning Musume out of this. You wanna bag on idols using creepy fetishism to get ahead, AKB is that way.

Post by Babylonian (16 posts) See mini bio Level 10
Staff

@AlKusanagi said:

PS. Leave Morning Musume out of this. You wanna bag on idols using creepy fetishism to get ahead, AKB is that way.

Hahaha, you misunderstand! I harbor no ill will towards J-pop icons or underage gravure models. They did nothing wrong! It's everything and everyone surrounding them that I have a problem with!

Post by mutha3 (17 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@Babylonian said:

@mutha3 said:

my distaste is less towards the show's producers and more directed at everything about the vaguely pedophilic cultural juggernaut that is Japanese pop idol culture. There's this unignorable undercurrent of creepiness to all that stuff, and it's a vibe I can't shake whenever I happen upon a Morning Musume video or whatever. That's a topic for another time, though!

I share that distaste, honestly, but Shadow Rise is supposed to directly address that aspect of Japanese culture, y'know? It sure doesn't glorify it, because Shadow Rise is pretty much spawned from her line of work.

I agree that it doesn't quite glorify it, but there has been so damn much naked Rise in this show so far that it's hard to know where the satire ends and the unironic eroticism begins. It kind of reminds me of the Kanji stuff, in some ways - it kind of undercuts your point when you. I think it's undeniable that P4A has utilized Rise as a tool for fan service at least a little bit, and it undercuts their point somewhat. It's self-sabotaging, just like having Kanji embrace his complex sexuality at the end of one episode only to be mocked by the rest of the cast for being 'gay' one episode later.

Well, yeah, there is undeniably an element of fanservice there. It was a lot more bearable in the game, but that's probably because we were seeing a 3D model giving the worst stripdance in the world. The anime was definitely more sexually provocative.

But I think that can be divorced from the idol thing-- sadly, moments of unpleasant fanservice pop up from time to time in both the game and the anime. See beauty pageant, camping trip etc. I'm definitely willing to give P4A some slack, though, because compared to your usual anime-- it isn't fanservicey at all. Seriously. Compare it with almost any anime in the past 10 years.

Whoa, really? That's awesome! If you have a link to his explanations of some of his character designs, I'd really love to read it!

I've got that art book that came with Persona 4, and there's a lot of those preliminary character sketches to be found in there. It's insane how different Kanji looked at one point. Like, not even the same dude!

Sadly....I don't. Anymore. I found this stuff from various fantranslations online, and none of them are anywhere close to complete. Just a couple of haphazardly translated bits here and there, mostly found it on sites like Tumblr and Livejournal.

The "P4 Visual Databook" you're talking about is a very respectable artbook by videogaming standards(since most tend to look like they're made from toiletpaper), but it doesn't include all the artwork and concept designs that the official Japanese one did. The official JP artbook was around 250-300 pages and the US visual databook was 100 pages.

Thankfully, a US translation of that artbook is going to show up this May. I will maybe seriously consider probably buy it.

Here's another interesting tidbit: Kanji wasn't originally going to have conflicted feelings about his sexuality-- rather, he was going to be pretty much a Japanese Batman. His parents were killed by Yakuza and he has sworn to avenge them.

(edit: correction, Kanji being the Japanese Batman in concept stage came from the Official Fanbook, which sadly won't be getting a translation....yet)

Post by YotaruVegeta (612 posts) See mini bio Level 12

Kanji's still my hero; he doesn't need to be much more. :) What I did want him to be is full blown gay, because I can't even count on one hand any gay playable characters I've come across in gaming.

Post by YotaruVegeta (612 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@fluxwavez: I don't understand. What's wrong with Yosuke's shadow self? He's the son of this family that's doing well, and he has fears of being rejected, not being accepted as a normal high school student. Thematically, all of the other shadows make sense, but I don't know what a frog dude means in Yosuke's case.

What I was scratching my head at is why Yosuke doesn't show more signs of being pissed that he knew the first victim and wants revenge. He's not mad at all!

Post by Turambar (233 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Babylonian said:

if you weren't made at least a little bit uncomfortable by the slow, lingering pan up Chie and Yukiko's bikini-clad bodies during the field trip episode, our standards for the appropriate depiction of 16-year-old girls are apparently pretty different.

I'll take that on gladly. It's less me being ok with pedophilia as it is me not giving a damn when the character is a 2d fictional character in a setting where their actual age is not given any focus at all. The idea that we are going to be all protective over fake girls on our computer screens has always been and will always be retarded as far as I'm concerned when the line between ok and not ok has always seemed to rest on the thin line of what age the game tells you she is. If the game made it a big deal that the reason why guys should get their rocks off is because they are under aged, then you might actually have a point. In this case, you do not.

Post by Draxyle (3 posts) See mini bio Level 4

I'm quite sick of the pedophilic depictions of women in Japanese media as well, but I'm okay with the presentation of Shadow Rise myself. I don't see it as fanservice pandering. Following the themes of the show, it's actually sort of making a mockery of the fanservice obsession in Japan, just like how Kanji's shadow is mocking the stereotypical view of homosexuals in the media. I can't really go into detail without being slightly spoilery of plot details, but I believe that this was done for all the right reasons. And I really didn't get much of a deliberately "sexually exploitative" vibe watching it, I even watched it with my mother without feeling awkward.

But yea, great episode overall; an excellent return to form. Next episode has to potential to be something amazing too.

Post by FoxxFireArt (2,649 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

I don't see how this being set in the real world makes it any more odd than Star Wars having all this futuristic action being set in the ancient past.

Also, LotR was actually suppose to be set in a form of the real world. Tolken took some crap in one scene in The Fellowship of the Ring because he had the Hobits talking about tomatoes. Many scholars pointed out that those came from the new world, the American colonies.

@Hailinel: @mutha3: @Babylonian:

Yes, because as we all know Western culture doesn't overtly sexualize real life teenage girls. That is if you don't count Britney Spear, Christina Aguilera, Mandy Moore, Miley Cyrus, The Olsen Twins. I could go on.

Do I even need to bring up Toddlers & Tiaras. Game, Set, and Match. That show actually had a toddler dressed up as a hooker from Pretty Woman. How it's still on the air is beyond my comprehension. Until that gets pulled from the air. No one has room to complain about #$@# in anime.

@fluxwavez:

Yes, I know what the end game is. We are just covering things as they are uncovered in the anime to avoid spoilers. I also just never really picked up on the depth of the symbolism until the anime.

Post by fluxwavez (4 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@YotaruVegeta said:

but I don't know what a frog dude means in Yosuke's case.

That's exactly what I meant.

@FoxxFireArt said:

I also just never really picked up on the depth of the symbolism until the anime.

Oh. You should probably look into Jungian psychology, then, which is what a lot of the game/anime is based on. I wouldn't say the anime is better at conveying the game's symbolism than the game itself as I found it to be pretty clear while playing it. Plus it isn't called "Persona" for nothing.

Post by PewPewLazers (15 posts) See mini bio Level 6

@FoxxFireArt said:

@Hailinel: @mutha3: @Babylonian:

Yes, because as we all know Western culture doesn't overtly sexualize real life teenage girls. That is if you don't count Britney Spear, Christina Aguilera, Mandy Moore, Miley Cyrus, The Olsen Twins. I could go on.

Do I even need to bring up Toddlers & Tiaras. Game, Set, and Match. That show actually had a toddler dressed up as a hooker from Pretty Woman. How it's still on the air is beyond my comprehension. Until that gets pulled from the air. No one has room to complain about #$@# in anime.

You have a point, but as an outsider looking in I have to admit that it was one of the reasons that I was a little apprehensive about watching Anime to begin with. It does sound a little silly now, but that's the image most people carry with them in regards to that.

To qualify that a little though, I will agree that across media there isn't really anything out ahead in terms of who portrays what most negatively. Well, at least in my experience, but I'm sure someone could bring out an extreme example out to defend whatever their particular agenda may be.

It is an interesting discussion though, probably warrants its own spotlight truth be told.

@YotaruVegeta said:

I think this episode, for me, has proven that this is not really a show for a Persona 4 noob? Why do I say that? Teddy. Teddy has not been around not nearly enough for us to feel the impact of his semi "heel turn" When I got to this moment in the game, I was like "oh no, Teddie!"` How much have we seen Teddied in this anime? Maybe 4 times? They don't just hang out in the TV world and talk to Teddie like in the games.

The context of Teddies plight was lost a little. I mean by this point in the game you had already seen multiple scenes were he complained about being alone and his lack of involvement. And it was something you pretty much knew anyway, probably only visiting each dungeon about 2-5 times a month within the game, meaning once you had your bearings you would hardly see him.

But I couldn't really see a suitable workaround, at least not with the pace the show maintains. Some things will inveatably be lost in translation, but lets be honest this is a show for the fans. As you say its relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, I mean where are the fusing episodes!

@mutha3: Really?! I already own the original P3 & P4 art-books but would still maybe consider these just for the translations. On that note, do you know anything about the Soejima works getting a similar treatment? I had it on pre-order with Amazon for a while but then it suddenly got cancelled a while back. Last I checked Udon were responsible for bringing it over, and the translated Valkyria Chronicles art-book they published was fantastic.

Post by endaround (19 posts) See mini bio Level 7

There is a huge amount of sexualization of teenagers in the US, the difference is that its live action and the actors are often over 18. For example Porky's and Glee and Wild Things. But even then often times the actors themselves are under 18, like on The OC and Gossip Girl. I think the biggest issue is like how Tom says it, there is a tricky issue that is lying in teh background that is different in Japan.

Post by Little_Socrates (45 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@YotaruVegeta: I just wrote an essay involving the subject of Yosuke's Shadow and Persona designs based on Shintō mythology. I'm planning to post the entire essay once it's finalized, but for now, I'll drop the paragraph on Yosuke here.

The first character to receive a Persona other than the protagonist is Yosuke Hanamura; his initial Persona is Jiraiya. In order to obtain Jiraiya, however, the protagonist must help Yosuke overcome his demons, in part by fighting against a shadowy form. Yosuke’s “Shadow” takes the form of a giant frog. This is also related to the myth of Jiraiya, a legendary ninja who transforms into a frog to fight against Orochimaru, another ninja who transforms into a snake. Once the Shadow is defeated, Yosuke may control Jiraiya in battle; Jiraiya is especially adept at the “wind” element. However, part of the shadow remains in Jiraiya; the shark-like grin that was present on the shadow is still present as the Persona’s collar, and the camouflage upon the Shadow’s body remains upon Jiraiya’s boots.

In order to perfect Yosuke’s Persona, Yosuke must overcome an arrogance that allowed him to deceive himself. Yosuke is forced to move with his family to the suburbs, similarly to the protagonist and the exiled noble archetype. He is the son of the new manager of a local department store that is damaging local businesses in Inaba, exemplifying his nobility. This leads to one of the murder victims forging a friendship with Yosuke before she dies despite finding him “a pain in the ass.” However, Yosuke has strong feelings for the girl, and in order to face his true self, he must accept the falsehood of their relationship and the falsehood of his desire to save her.

Once he abandons this “camouflage”, his Persona transforms into the significantly more-powerful Susano-O, the Shintō god of wind who defeated the eight-headed Orochi in battle. Susano-O was also arrogant and exiled from his home, but by the end of his journey, he had learned to accept his role in the heavens, earning back the trust of his family members. This relationship is extremely purposeful, drawing connections visually and thematically between the character and his Personas.

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