Publishers - VS - Scanlators
Localization or Accuracy?
That's right. Conan is actually JAPANESE!
It's not about the change of title to Case Closed. Annoying as it is. That doesn't effect the story. The name changes do. Bleach and Naruto. These series all get to keep their original names. Do you honestly think these series would sell half as well in the US if they had changed the characters names? I seriously doubt it. They sell well, because they are closer to the Japanese product. The online audience, that follows scanlations, buys it. (Though, it always struck me as odd that in Naruto the manga they call the teachers "Master", but the anime it used "Sensei". Both are produced by VIZ.)
Meitantei Conan Vol. 1
When VIZ made those changes they were basically telling me and the entire online audience that they didn't want us as readers. We are not the target audience that they wanted to publish for. Yet, we want to read and enjoy that story. It would be different if VIZ offered some kind of alternative. For example, the ability to purchase unedited versions off their website. The way they started offering Dragon Ball either edited or unedited. Scanlation is the only way I can get the real story in English.
If VIZ wont change things back, or offer some alternative. I see no reason to have to pay for a flawed product that is filled with inaccuracies, contradictions, and incorrect translations while I wait for them to realize their mistake. People tell me that you need to support the series and maybe they will change things later. (VIZ is currently 30 volumes into what is nearing a 70 volume series.) Even if I was buying them and they did republish with the proper names eventually. That would mean I would have to buy the same volume twice. It's ridiculous for something they should be doing in the first place.
FUNimation I think has the correct idea going right now, and should be applauded. They wanted people to stop pirating One Piece and other animes. Their solution was to give them the ability to watch those episodes on their website an hour after they air in Japan with subtitles and older episodes with the dub work. If you don't like the dub work. There are the Japanese versions to watch too. If only they would do the same thing for the Detective Conan anime.
Negima! by Del Rey
If you are like me, and your local publisher wont produce a series in your country without drastic edits to the story. I say go where you have to in order to get the real story. In the mean time. Be sure to support publishers that strive to be as accurate as possible. Scanlations and Pirating shouldn't be our first choice, but in some rare cases it's the only one we are given.
- Kristoffer Remmell (FoxxFireArt) is a freelance graphic artist, writer, and over all mystery geek. Guest posts are intended to encourage diversity of thought; the opinions represented within are not necessarily those of Anime Vice or its staff.
What do you think the translators in the US (or where ever) use? They use the original Japanese printing of the series.
When you say someone is Japanese, you are talking about race, country of origin, nationality... these are all intertwined. You don't know if they are Asian? What are you talking about?
Understanding culture is only one part of translation, and often not even the biggest part. Issues I have dealt with is Japanese people in Japan who understand their culture very well, but do not understand English well enough to put three sentences together. Being Japanese or in Japan is not enough to make one a good translator...and as a matter of fact isn't required.
I turn the question back to you. How can YOU claim it is more authentic without reading or speaking Japanese?
It reads like a Del Rey, and therefore is more authentic? C'mon. Seriously?
@FoxxFireArt said:
Actually, I know a few people that read and write Japanese much better than they speak it. They tend to have conversations with people easier using pen and paper than actually speaking. But back to the point, I didn't "ask you explain" but just what you meant by saying "speaking and reading are very different things".
And I am not sure I am comfortable enough with your experience to accept am "any translator knows" statement from you.@FoxxFireArt said:
What is unreasonable is not the desire, but is the demonizing of a publisher for something that is clearly out of their legal control. I will ask for the third and last time, why do YOU think they changed the names, despite the obvious backlash from fans?
I get that. So, why then am I having to explain to him why reading and speaking a language are often completely different things. I can know a word in Japanese easily and understand it's meaning. Knowing how it's spelled in that language are completely different.
@Sigue:
I understand their point, but they are refusing to listen to any of mine as well.
It's as simple as this. I don't care that they had to change the title of the series to Case Closed. I understand that change. I wouldn't be going to scanlations if I could buy the series in the US with the original character names. All I want is to read the story with the real character names. If VIZ would publish it like that. I would be buying every single volume. It would be something I looked forward to every few months. The way I do for Negima! and Fairy Tail.
I'm even trying to suggest options for a middle ground.
@John_Thomas:
The reason I know it's more authentic. I can read a little Japanese. Just far from fluent. I'm still struggling with Kanji. The site I go to for the scanlations offers in both RAW Japanese and translated. I have seen the Japanese version, English scanlation versions, and compared them to the English altered version.
You can't claim these aren't more authentic without seeing them.
The only thing you have pointed to why why the title was changed to Case Closed. I have never asked them to change the title to Detective Conan. There has not been a reasonable explanation for the names of the cast. That is all I have ever asked for.
There is a legal issue with them releasing the names in the original Japanese. That is likely not VIZ's choosing, so why do you try to punish them so?
@gia said:
Thank you for the plug, Gia!
As my mother said when I explained this post to her: "Tough crowd."
Then you should know that every kanji has at least 2 meanings with 4 meanings being about average, and some crazy ones have 20 meanings. And that one word, using mika as an example, can have two meanings depending on how you write it. If you write mika in hiragana it means urn and when it's written in kanji it means beautiful fragrance. And you should also know that to pass a proficiency test you need to know 6000 kanji plus understanding in a sentence and name kanji. So they are two different matters but only very slightly with reading being the easiest by a hair.
Are you giving me a lesson in Japanese?
I am not sure where you get your information from, but it isn't what I would call a textbook introduction to Japanese.
The kanji for urn is 甕.
I have to agree that what he's doing wont change Viz's mind but it just might make them angry enough to change their minds. And Viz makes enough out of other series that it's not really hurting the people involved in the translation, distribution, and creation.
And it's not hard to keep with original names. If Viz gave me a really good reason as to why they changed character names then I might forgive them and buy more then just Fullmetal Alchemist.
@Mikayasha said:
What does that first sentence even mean? No, it won't change their minds. Why? Because from what I can tell, he's not being proactive. Is he emailing them? Sending letters? Voicing to the people responsible of what his feelings are? No. Simply not buying the volumes will do NOTHING. Viz isn't a company made up of mind readers. Yet another person who doesn't understand how the industry works.
I just head desked. Did I ever mention any where what the kanji for urn was? No. I was saying that one word using mika as an example can mean two different things depending on how you write it. And yes that is the kanji for urn and can be read as mika or kame. And this 美香 is also mika but means beautiful fragrance. OH! I see where I missed up. So let me rephrase that: If you write mika in hiragana and look it up then you get urn as the english meaning. Though if you write it in kanji you have to watch on which kanji you use as one means urn and the other means beautiful fragrance.
And I don't appreciate your condecending attitude. Learning a language with only text books is the same as learning to walk as if you used crutches the entire time. But my information is from attending college classes from a teacher who is Japanese.
Are you happy now?
Yes I don't know how the industry works. That's why I said might. I didn't say that it will. And doesn't this thread make him proactive? He's saying something about it, and it MIGHT get to Viz's ears IF it does. Sure this thread is not EXTREMELY proactive, but it might get other people to start sending in letters and e-mail because then they know that they aren't alone in wanting Viz to keep with the original names of characters and other stuff.
Note that the keywards are in caps.
OT: How would I send a letter or e-mail to Viz?
Sorry to hear about your head. I am not the one that opened up by saying "Then you should know that..." and then gave a list of erroneous information.
Then you should know that every kanji has at least 2 meanings with 4 meanings being about average,
Do you mean "meanings" or "pronunciations"? I don't know where you get the figure "4 being average' but it isn't based in anything. A kanji can have one meaning or a dozen, it just depends how it is translated. Kanji combinations tend have one meaning. 東京 means Tokyo...and that's it. Though it is all about how you want to translate it. That combination also only has one pronunciation.
And that one word, using mika as an example, can have two meanings depending on how you write it .
Japanese has many many homonyms. Mika the urn is written differently than Mika the girl's name which is used writing the characters meaning "beautiful" and "fragrance". It is not "one word" but two different words (or a word and a name) with the same pronunciation. These distinctions are important when thinking about, and thinking in Japanese. There are a dozen meanings associated with the homonym うち.
And you should also know that to pass a proficiency test you need to know 6000 kanji plus understanding in a sentence and name kanji.
The JLPT1, the basic standard for Japanese proficiency, requires knowledge of just over 2000 kanji. That should be enough to read a newspaper and graduate from high school.
I didn't have a condescending attitude, but don't tell someone who knows exactly what he is talking about what is up unless you yourself know what you are talking about. I don't know what I did to make you attack me in the first place, but I am happy to correct your misconceptions about Japanese that come up.
VIZ Media, LLC
P.O. BOX 77010
San Francisco, CA 94107
Internet Contact Form (no actual email):
http://www.viz.com/about/contact/contac
Plus they have a Twitter: @Viz_Media
Thank you so much. You're a nice person to talk to. :D
And something I missed last time:
So is the name changing actually Funimations fault?
@John_Thomas
It wasn't my intention to attack you in the first message, and I'm sorry if it came out that way. But when you replied it sounded to me as if you were attacking me and so I attacked back, as it's only human nature to get defensive. Again I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you in the first message, it was not my intention. And when I calm down and get my head out of attack mode I will reply to the rest of you message.
Even if Detective Conan was badly edited (which apparently it isn't) than that sure as hell doesn't give you the right to steal from Hiromu Arakawa, Square Enix, and Viz by downloading Fullmetal Alchemist.
Gia should frankly be embarassed that she was foolish enough to put such a poorly written, poorly thought out article, about how minor edits gives people the right to commit theft. If Gia thinks stealing is okay than I was a fool to ever think she was an intelligent person who loved anime.
Although I am new here, I have known Gia for a long time, and I think we all know she is an intelligent person who loves anime and manga.
I would love to have a discussion about how to fix the anime and manga industry so it can at least recover without companies collapsing like it did with Geneon and ADV but this article wasn't going to be it, I mean once you get a title called "Scanslations: A Pirate's life for me" this article was doomed from the start. You can't have a pro-pirating article and claim that it's going to start an intelligent discussion on manga. The only way anime has a future is if pirating is curbed, pirating has brought anime on life support and it's barely hanging on.
I understand what you are saying CharredKnight, and we can criticize the guest writer of the opinion, but I don't think it is fair to "kill the messenger" so to speak. Just because I don't agree with the OP doesn't mean I blame Anime Vice for posting it. If it sparks discussion, then it was worth it.
For me it is interesting seeing the opinions attempting to be defended, however delusional I may think they are.
It is also encouraging for me to see the staunch defenders of the publishers. That is a good thing.
The truth is people like this exist. They don't care about publishers or artists, but just "getting their fix". For anime and manga makers to stay afloat they have to come up with ways to fight it. For manga publishers it is easier, as they sell a book, and you can't take a downloaded book to the beach or lend it to a friend or watch your collection grow on your bookshelf. Anime publishing companies are not as lucky, as you can download an anime at the same quality as the DVD.
Some companies are getting smarter. RightStuf includes extras with their DVD boxes, like booklets, paper models, etc. Smart moves to keep real fans.
@CharredKnight said:
Gia didn't put up the article, she didn't even know it was up until it was up. This article is one in an on-going series of Animevice Member articles. Everyone is welcome to submit an article if they would like, see the topic about it pinned to the message boards ( members with more contributions to the community, as in comment counts and wiki points, get first dibs )