Anime Vice News

Overheard on Twitter: Twilight Fans vs Moe Fans

An interesting comparison. What do YOU think?


So even as I type this, a fluffy of discussion is going on via Twitter. It started out with manga blogger Melinda Beasi, who noted that she has the Twilight graphic novel, and is looking forward to seeing if it deserves all the "flack" its received.


TOKYOPOP intern and manga blogger AllAboutManga replied that they wouldn't get as much flack "if they didn't create things like Edward panties or Edward body pillows," and Beasi pointed out-- rather rightly, I should think --that anime and manga geeks can hardly point fingers when it comes to being fans of body pillows and their ilk of product.

At this point TimMaughan, a sci-fi/manga/anime blogger, jumped in, suggesting that "at least some of the Twilight fans admit it's a sex thing, and aren't living in otaku style denial."

I won't go into great detail on the ensuing discussion, some of which is intelligent and interesting and some of which is little more than otaku RAGE!, but I found the comparison interesting. We've certainly talked about moe-- that indefinable mix of cute, needy, and (arguably) sexy --and we've also talked about the female side of fangirling (mostly fujoshi, BL fangirls). But the comparison of Twilight fans, fans of fictional characters who ooze angst, need, and sexual attraction while maintaining a stance of chastity (at least as I understand the first novel), to moe fans, who also dig needy characters, often with a sexual undertone, is a pretty interesting one.

I'm not quite ready to write up a full essay on the topic myself, but what do you guys think? Do moe fans have more in common with Twilight fans than they'd like to think?    
Lunarmothon March 17, 2010 at 1:23 a.m.
I think oishi_47 was on to something about moe being a concept and Twilight being a specific title. In these terms they will me hard to compare. But if you look at the reaction of the extremes of these two groups you get a similar vibe, how weird or disputing it can gets. If I had to compare the two fairly I would at least have to read one of the Twilight book, which I have no desire to do. Since I've seen some moe in the Anime and manga I seen.   

So at last if I had to compare the two, as of now,  I would have to break them down to there ideal concepts. Twilight is a novel series that if nothing more then a romance novel. If not for it popularity it would be found the the middle of the endless romance novels in book stores and in time will lay in the discounted books pile of nameless book with wore pages (which over time may where it still end up maybe). Regardless if the story is good or bad it is a story of romance to entice  the readers to be well reading it.  Moe is the concept to capture cuteness and innocence with in a image, regardless if that image is physical or drawn. But because of it popularity for now one could say at its present moment maybe just a fad. As soon as we known it could be a sub category to catalog things under. Still it would remain as it concept, no mater the contexts it is use in, be it just to be moe or to be sexualized.
 
Which one Wins? I would say it would be easer to get behind a concept then it is an specific title. I think Moe had more to it. 
To end I think a better question to ask. Why do we think the "extremes" of these groups weird us out so much?
JJOR64on March 17, 2010 at 1:33 a.m.
@FoxxFireArt said:
" I'll take moe over TWITlight any day. "
Same here.
JarenLon March 17, 2010 at 5:10 a.m.
@oishi_47 I... I sincerely hope you're just joking.
  http://www.jlist.com/ADULTTOYS/ADHT_1.html
Take your pick. Otaku have made an art of themed sex aids.

It's just another fandom. It didn't come out of nowhere, either - smutty romance novels have been around for a good long time. Other people are allowed to like terrible things just as much as you are.
giaon March 17, 2010 at 8:12 a.m.
@Lunarmoth said:
" I think oishi_47 was on to something about moe being a concept and Twilight being a specific title. In these terms they will me hard to compare. "
I talked about this on the podcast, too, which'll go up later today-- on the other hand, we're talking more about the fans than about moe vs Twilight in and of themselves. :) 
Kelleth moderator on March 17, 2010 at 9:01 a.m.
@rein said:

" @Kelleth: to be perfectly honest i never got the hype. It didin't strike me as a "masterpiece" of any kind. it was a decent anime, that's it. "

Well to be fair what i actually meant is that Haruhi and other ''Moe'' series have redeeming factors Twillight doesn't. (i don`t actually worship it but other people do!) The sex thing doesn`t really count because Twillight is sexually pointed towards Females and Gay Men, so whilst ''Moe'' series can be liked or disliked by multiple layers of society Twillight is a one-sided softpr9n flick. This is why its so disliked by most people. (btw scrap that about gay men i`m pretty sure most of them are smart enough to buy pron or google it. sorry for the previous insult :\). in that sense i`m kinda insulted to be compared with Twillight fans because moe is just BETTER. (also the fact that when talking about liking or disliking Twillight most of them fans seem to be as nice as a bulldog with rabies whose been kicked in the nuts and hasn`t been fed for days)  
 
 

@Lunarmoth

said:

" I think oishi_47 was on to something about moe being a concept and Twilight being a specific title. In these terms they will me hard to compare. But if you look at the reaction of the extremes of these two groups you get a similar vibe, how weird or disputing it can gets. If I had to compare the two fairly I would at least have to read one of the Twilight book, which I have no desire to do. Since I've seen some moe in the Anime and manga I seen.   So at last if I had to compare the two, as of now,  I would have to break them down to there ideal concepts. Twilight is a novel series that if nothing more then a romance novel. If not for it popularity it would be found the the middle of the endless romance novels in book stores and in time will lay in the discounted books pile of nameless book with wore pages (which over time may where it still end up maybe). Regardless if the story is good or bad it is a story of romance to entice  the readers to be well reading it.  Moe is the concept to capture cuteness and innocence with in a image, regardless if that image is physical or drawn. But because of it popularity for now one could say at its present moment maybe just a fad. As soon as we known it could be a sub category to catalog things under. Still it would remain as it concept, no mater the contexts it is use in, be it just to be moe or to be sexualized. Which one Wins? I would say it would be easer to get behind a concept then it is an specific title. I think Moe had more to it. To end I think a better question to ask. Why do we think the "extremes" of these groups weird us out so much? "

I agree on that one.
Oishi_47on March 17, 2010 at 7:26 p.m.
@JarenL: I know they have the simulated loli vaginas. I was just pointing out the hilarity of something promoting putting a marital aid in a freezer being recommended to simulate a dead penis. That is unique. I guess you could toss a latex vagina into the freezer to simulate...well...I'm on the internet, it's bad enough I have to explain these things at family gatherings.  
 
Anyway, I think something that is not being mentioned are the specific themes of Twilight that might be considered moe. Look at vampires (I know, I know, I use that word "very" loosely when referring to Twilight). I believe that it was Sigmund Freud who postulated that our fascination with vampires was rooted in our repressed sexual urges. In short, Porphyric Hemophilia (vampirism) was a form of moe before there was moe. Moe itself is a relatively new concept and, therefore, has to work retroactively in order to cover a broad set of predefined attractive features.  
 
I will however still say that members of team Jacob are furries or should just marry Italian, and members of team Bella are creepy guys who want to date high school girls or high school guys who are in touch with their "sensitivity," which I assume to be located behind the linen in the closet they are in. 
John_Martoneon March 18, 2010 at 12:10 p.m.
@oishi_47 said:

I will however still say that members of team Jacob are furries or should just marry Italian, and members of team Bella are creepy guys who want to date high school girls or high school guys who are in touch with their "sensitivity," which I assume to be located behind the linen in the closet they are in.  "

HA. I notice you didn't mock team Edward... is that a tell?
Oishi_47on March 18, 2010 at 1:17 p.m.
@John_Martone: Edward is included in the vampire (still using term loosely) category. Still, I don't see what I can say about the kind of fan of Edward who might use the aforementioned product in the aforementioned way.
Charagonon March 21, 2010 at 2:28 p.m.
While there's no doubt anime fandom has more depravity in its depths than even the most hardcore Twilight fan, in general there is some high ground on this side. After all, we have an entire medium of countless characters to direct our obsessive tendencies towards. These people JUST HAVE TWILIGHT.
 
So yeah, we'll go "Awwwwwww, so cute!" at the latest moe character in whatever show we're following. If that character makes enough of an impression, we might pick up a figurine or something. Then a week later we'll watch something else and that'll be it.
 
And even when characters make a big enough impression to become an internet fad, it's still mostly just in fun. There's no shortage of self-parody in Haruhism. Twilight fans though... that's a whole other level of creepy.
John_Martoneon March 22, 2010 at 2:07 p.m.
@oishi_47 said:
" In short, Porphyric Hemophilia (vampirism) was a form of moe before there was moe. "
is that an official name? I know that's the name of the disease in Oblivion that turns you into a "vampire"
Oishi_47on March 22, 2010 at 2:38 p.m.
@John_Martone: I looked it up on Wikipedia a while ago.  It redirects to Vampirism. It refers to a combination of the actual blood disorders porphyria and hemophilia. Porphyria has been linked to "vampirism" but Oblivion is the only place I've actually seen the two terms combined to mean vampirism. So yeah, I pretty much got it from Oblivion but it does sound both cool and scientific. 
  
From Wikipedia's page on Vampirism: 

 Porphyria

In 1985 biochemist David Dolphin proposed a link between the rare blood disorder porphyria and vampire folklore. Noting that the condition is treated by intravenous haem, he suggested that the consumption of large amounts of blood may result in haem being transported somehow across the stomach wall and into the bloodstream. Thus vampires were merely sufferers of porphyria seeking to replace haem and alleviate their symptoms. The theory has been rebuffed medically as suggestions that porphyria sufferers crave the haem in human blood, or that the consumption of blood might ease the symptoms of porphyria, are based on a misunderstanding of the disease. Furthermore, Dolphin was noted to have confused fictional (bloodsucking) vampires with those of folklore, many of whom were not noted to drink blood.Similarly, a parallel is made between sensitivity to sunlight by sufferers, yet this was associated with fictional and not folkloric vampires. In any case, Dolphin did not go on to publish his work more widely.Despite being dismissed by experts, the link gained media attentionand entered popular modern folklore.

Dig Deeper into Twilight

Edit/View the Wiki
Hit the Forums (4 Posts)
Add/View Images
Watch Some Videos (1 Video)
Pokemon Black and White Looks Delicious in Motion

First video of a Pokemon battle in Black and White.

Comment & Win: One Piece Vol. 52, 53

Time for a giveaway folks! Now, act civil, we don't want anyone to get hurt in the mad rush to win.

Beginner's Guide to FLCL

Gainax's madcap, surrealist anime, broken down for new viewers.

Ballz Deep

Steve gets intimately close to Dragon Ball Z, for science!

Top 3 Awful Anime Dubs

Grit your teeth and get your ear plugs ready cause this week we're taking on the three most amazingly bad dubs of all time!

JOJO'S BIZARRE ADVENTURE Pays Homage to Stephen King?

STARDUST CRUSADERS #13 -- Watch & Learn. Christine?

Does JOJO'S BIZARRE ADVENTURE Work as a Horror Story?

STARDUST CRUSADERS #14 -- Watch & Learn. It's scary!

TOKYO GHOUL #1&2 -- Special Review

Fancy a bit of the ol' ultraviolence, my droogies?

PERSONA 4: THE GOLDEN ANIMATION #1 -- Special Review

This finally makes sense to me?

NARUTO Ch. 685 Review

In some ways, NARUTO is becoming the TWILIGHT of manga.

SAILOR MOON CRYSTAL #1 & 2 -- Special Review

Now that the second episode's out, how does this franchise fair after 25 years?

Is DRAGON BALL Dated?

DRAGON BALL #11 -- Retro Review. Rusty pinballs?!

SAMURAI JAM-BAKUMATSU ROCK #1 -- Special Review

The secret history of bishonen?

DRAMAtical mURDER #1 -- Special Review

Must all nerds be bullied?

TOKYO GHOUL #1&2 -- Special Review

Fancy a bit of the ol' ultraviolence, my droogies?

Does JOJO'S BIZARRE ADVENTURE Work as a Horror Story?

STARDUST CRUSADERS #14 -- Watch & Learn. It's scary!

SAILOR MOON CRYSTAL #1 & 2 -- Special Review

Now that the second episode's out, how does this franchise fair after 25 years?

PERSONA 4: THE GOLDEN ANIMATION #1 -- Special Review

This finally makes sense to me?

ARGEVOLLEN #1 -- Special Review

Well, I can say the suit looks cool, at least.

Summer 2014 Simulcast Guide

What's flipping off the stream this season?

JOJO'S BIZARRE ADVENTURE Pays Homage to Stephen King?

STARDUST CRUSADERS #13 -- Watch & Learn. Christine?

Mandatory Network

Submissions can take several hours to be approved.

Save ChangesCancel