Anime Vice News

Manga vs. American Comics - - THE VICE PIT

Why can't otaku and fanboys just get along? Sam & Tom show how "snobbery" is a two-way street in a fandom and also discuss some live action anime! Plus...we all learn a little about each other.

Other Vice Pit sessions on...

  • The Most Epic Anime Deaths of All Time!
  • Your Most Hated Anime Tropes!
  • Are Miyazaki Movies Unwise to Introduce Anime?
  • When You're Embarrassed to Like Anime?
  • Why is AKIRA Still Popular?
  • TIGER & BUNNY: The Next Big Thing in Anime?
  • Dub Vs. Sub
  • KIDS ON THE SLOPE
  • YU YU HAKUSHO
  • Comic Con / Anime Expo 2012
  • CAT PLANET CUTIES
  • Toonami / FUJIKO MINE
  • DRAGON AGE
  • Big thanks to FoxxFireArt and asian_pridefor their most excellent Q's!

    Be sure to submit questions and topics for a future Vice Pit session here. We will answer them!

    Tom Pinchuk’s a writer and personality with a large number of comics, videos and features like this to his credit. Visit his website - - tompinchuk.com - - and follow his Twitter: @tompinchuk

    Sam Weller is a writer and actor who's scribed for shows like FIRST EDITION, GEEK THERAPY, and most recently BATGIRL: SPOILED. He also really likes anime. To know what is going to happen next, follow@cravesam

    Nightwolfon Aug. 15, 2012 at 3:38 p.m.

    Can't we all just get along.

    The Stegmanon Aug. 15, 2012 at 3:38 p.m.
    @2:58 Did Tom just turn into a pair of bouncing boobs??
    swaggityon Aug. 15, 2012 at 6:07 p.m.

    I dropped this response to Foxx Fire. You all are more than welcome to disagree with what I say, just lemme know what you disagree on.

    Just gonna quote my post.

    --

    In my honest opinion, something like this has to be looked at from a cultural standpoint. At least I believe so. For example - comedy. A lot of japanese anime references japanese history and culture in their work. How will an american understand that? You really don't expect them too because they do not live in Japan, and it is not a matter of ignorance either. If japanese culture doesn't interest them, you can't force it down their throats to learn.

    And regarding fanservice, you honestly cannot say that busty Marvel and DC heroines aren't over-exploited like they are in japanese manga.

    I really think it comes down to the culture, and I also think it comes down to that old quote "too much of anything is a bad thing". Even I think fanservice can be a bit too much. Not only that, but sometimes it gets a little too pointless as well. Really, Power Girl's breasts aren't over-exploited for the reader. Sure, they are there, but they are definitely not over-exploited like you see in shows like Rosario + Vampire and Girls Bravo. Sometimes, the fanservice gets a little too much and pointless in those shows.

    Also, regarding your issue about deaths that are reversed... the only instance that I know about is Ichigo from Bleach, about how he dies but always comes back, avoiding death in some bizarre and miraculous way. ((I have a thread that I made regarding Bleach, and how I am only still on ep. 8. Lol. I have a lot of friends who have seen Bleach, and they are the one's who tell me this. Hence how I know. Lol. I couldn't know this solely being on ep. 8. Lol.)) I can't think of any instance where a character dies and then comes back. I guess you could use Goku as another example, but I really don't classify that as a good example because when he comes back, it kinda makes sense how through the Dragon Balls. But overall, usually in anime, when a character dies, they die. Because anime is finite, and american comics are not. Sometimes it becomes an issue in american comics, but comic companies won't keep their star money making characters dead. Captain America and Superman? Why would Marvel and DC respectively kill off their money makers? I don't think american readers really have a major issue with it anymore, for the fact that they have been accustomed to it already. They know that the editors are going to bring back a character eventually. And the characters usually just come back out of nowhere. It's not like Goku where he gets wished back. Sometimes american comic characters just... well... reappear. And it's weird like that sometimes.

    swaggityon Aug. 15, 2012 at 6:27 p.m.

    Also, one thing I have to address in regards to "things being long", what do you think would be easier to get into? One story arc of Superman, or 20 of One Piece?

    Sure, comics have multiple story arcs. Some tie in. Some don't. Let's go with the one's that don't. And that are GOOD stories by good writers.

    Reading Superman from Jeph Loeb or from Brian Azzarello or from Mark Waid, for example, they are different stories that have different writers that have their own unique, original story. Reading one doesn't influence the other, because they don't tie in. They are both original stories that stand alone. Read All-Star Superman, and it's its own story. It spans what, a few books? That's it. And you get a complete story. Comparing that to One Piece, where it's one writer, writing everything, and each and every arc/story ties into each other. Miss one, and you can miss everything. That's so much more "holy crap" - like, much more threatening, than just reading All-Star Superman, and getting the full story in a few short books. One Piece - have you seen how long that is? Like, 500 chapters. All-Star Superman? 12 issues. And you are done.

    Sure, if you want to get the FULL grasp of Superman, read EVERYTHING. But you don't have to. One Piece? Naruto? Yes, you have to read it all.

    Issues regarding canon and non-canon stories aren't an issue, because they don't ALL tie into each other. Stories can be canon, but by different writers, with new stories that don't tie into the other, but the story is still canon to the overall Superman legacy. It gets to the point that you don't even need to know what happened in the previous issue, and you still get a complete story from a different writer. None of this applies to One Piece or Naruto, for example.

    And I kinda like getting a new writer's perspective on a character. I find it interesting.

    There really is a difference, and I don't think you realized that.

    Also, saying "Oh, you can jump in on this arc" in manga is not the same. You miss everything else previously, and it's important because it eventually, or already does, tie into that "jump on arc". Characters are dead, buildings destroyed, etc. Whatever.

    Lurkeroon Aug. 15, 2012 at 7:15 p.m.

    I don't like Western comic books because they are trying to tie together too much continuity into several different books. I refuse to buy the main book and several other character books in order to understand what is going on at any given time. Plot devices in Western comics are also much more convoluted than those in manga. When main characters die they either didn't really die because of a "magic bullet" or they are resurrected somehow. At least Dragon Ball Z has the gall to wear Heaven and Hell on it's sleeve. Characters die and they can get wished back, it's part of the world.

    If Western comics were released in more of a graphic novel format only then I would be more open to reading them. Batman should be a base character that can be approached by any writer who is willing to write a new story about him. Instead, one writer gets Batman for 12 issues and then another writer is forced to come in and try to continue that same plotline to keep the continuity going. I don't like it.

    There is also the problem with continuity shakeups like what DC Comics did last year. Suddenly, there are parts of the DC Universe that have changed, some are still the same, and some are kinda the same but not really. I am never going to read Western comics if they keep this up. I do enjoy the cartoons though, so no problems there.

    swaggityon Aug. 15, 2012 at 7:23 p.m.

    @Lurkero said:

    There is also the problem with continuity shakeups like what DC Comics did last year. Suddenly, there are parts of the DC Universe that have changed, some are still the same, and some are kinda the same but not really.

    This is all that I agree with you on. All the retcons over and over can be ridiculous. But, understand, they do them because it's a business. To try and appeal to newer, younger, and overall more readers.

    Plus, give the current readers something fresh.

    There are reasons for the things that they do. Hell, I don't like all the retcons always changing up my favorite characters, but I understand why they do them.

    Top8caton Aug. 15, 2012 at 7:40 p.m.

    "Christmas time is here

    Happiness and cheer!"

    rubberluffyon Aug. 15, 2012 at 8:13 p.m.

    I'm gonna use this to mention how awesome Transmetropolitan is. Seriously guys, it's awesome. Seriously. Self-contained. Only 60 issues, or 10 trade paperback collections. No continuity but its own. Has a clear end. Also, pretty awesome.

    Destinyheroknighton Aug. 15, 2012 at 8:19 p.m.

    @swaggity:

    Even I think fanservice can be a bit too much. Not only that, but sometimes it gets a little too pointless as well. Really, Power Girl's breasts aren't over-exploited for the reader. Sure, they are there, but they are definitely not over-exploited like you see in shows like Rosario + Vampire and Girls Bravo. Sometimes, the fanservice gets a little too much and pointless in those shows.

    But, those titles you just name are fanservice titles. They target people who like that stuff, Power Girl doesn't really. A better example would be the X-Women comic.

    I like both, but I like manga better. Because I get a story where thing change.

    With Western Comics the characters pretty much stay the same, like when Dick Grayson become Batman and then a few months later he Nightwing again. (It just get annoying) And also all the retcons (One More Day and the new Starfire)

    But that don't happen to all comics, usually it happen to the main stream ones

    swaggityon Aug. 15, 2012 at 8:41 p.m.

    @Destinyheroknight said:

    @swaggity:

    Even I think fanservice can be a bit too much. Not only that, but sometimes it gets a little too pointless as well. Really, Power Girl's breasts aren't over-exploited for the reader. Sure, they are there, but they are definitely not over-exploited like you see in shows like Rosario + Vampire and Girls Bravo. Sometimes, the fanservice gets a little too much and pointless in those shows.

    But, those titles you just name are fanservice titles.

    Still doesn't diminish the fact that it can be too much.

    Destinyheroknighton Aug. 15, 2012 at 8:51 p.m.

    @swaggity:

    It kind of does, since it the point of the book is the fanservice and if someone was buying it for that reason they won't be saying it is to much (since they know what they are getting into)

    That like me saying there to much action in AvX VS

    Marshal Victoryon Aug. 15, 2012 at 10:25 p.m.

    Wait! Hold on a minute.. your saying one group who think they found something special an another group who think they found something special... Do not get along!

    I am shocked.Sure this is a 1st in history! Ok ok i can not maintain that level of sarcasm.But for those of us to old to give a dam... a word to those who would argue about this in a far to serious tone. I would offer these words of wisdom... People will use any thing ,to make themselves believe ,they are better than other people.That would include fanboys of any given game,anime,movie,an even comic books.Will your life be enriched by arguing with them?

    swaggityon Aug. 16, 2012 at 1:46 a.m.

    @Destinyheroknight said:

    @swaggity:

    It kind of does, since it the point of the book is the fanservice and if someone was buying it for that reason they won't be saying it is to much (since they know what they are getting into)

    That like me saying there to much action in AvX VS

    If you want to look at it from that perspective, fine. Individuals can find things not too much, but then I can compare Girls Bravo to Power Girl, and I can show that the fanservice is over-exploited. There are loopholes to everything.

    Also, X-Women, as you said earlier - you really think its fanservice is to the degree that Girls Bravo takes it? Really? I highly disagree. It's there, but it's not over-exploited like Japanese manga/anime does.

    X-Women, I would say, is showcasing powerful, ass-kicking women. Girls Bravo... not so much. Lol.

    ((THOUGH! It's been such a long time since I have read X-Women, and I don't remember everything that happened, so my entire argument could be invalid. Not afraid to admit that. xD))

    sickVisionz moderator on Aug. 16, 2012 at 3:28 a.m.

    The internet takes a very, "it's cool to be a hater," and, "one shall stand, one shall fall," approach to everything. Not only is it fun to hate stuff but anytime you're comparing two things, one must be amazing and the other must be terrible.

    Manga, the peak of maturity and adult storytelling in comic form.
    Manga, the peak of maturity and adult storytelling in comic form.

    Specifically though, manga vs comics is pretty stupid from both sides. I goto a manga site with a description of, "manga does not target younger audiences like american comics," then goes on to immediately list shows such mature and adult series like Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail, etc.... all series that are aimed at the same kid to teen audience as stuff like Batman, X-men, Spiderman, Superman, etc.

    US comics, the last bastion of tastefully displaying the female form.
    US comics, the last bastion of tastefully displaying the female form.

    On the flip side, Foxx's point about fanservice rings true. Your standard comic has no less amount of T&A than your standard manga in the same genre has. What makes the super cleavage of Matsumoto from Bleach more egregious than Psylocke's combat swimsuit or any female character drawn by Jim Lee, Rob Liefield, J. Scot Campbell, or to ever appear in a Top Cow comic? Yeah, there is a genre that is essentially pornography but it's hardly fair to condemn an entire medium because porn exist. You would get laughed out of a room for saying all cinema is rubbish because SEX STARVED F*** SLUTS #22 exists, but change that to manga and suddenly it's a totally ok and logical argument.

    Bottom line: don't be an idiot.

    Destinyheroknighton Aug. 16, 2012 at 3:58 p.m.

    @swaggity:

    Also, X-Women, as you said earlier - you really think its fanservice is to the degree that Girls Bravo takes it? Really? I highly disagree. It's there, but it's not over-exploited like Japanese manga/anime does.
    X-Women, I would say, is showcasing powerful, ass-kicking women. Girls Bravo... not so much. Lol.

    Yes, it is

    Look at the two covers

    In X-Women they are sexually posing every time you see them, that isn't girl power it pure fanservice. (Power Girl is girl power, X-Women not) Now, in Girls Bravo case. The anime of Girls Bravo is more over-exploited then the manga, in the manga is tamer compare to Girls Bravo (anime) and X-Women. Also the funny thing about Girls Bravo is that a woman is the one who made it :)

    swaggityon Aug. 16, 2012 at 7:14 p.m.

    @Destinyheroknight: Haha yup, You got a point. I can tell by the difference in covers exactly what you mean. Like I said, I wasn't afraid to admit if I was wrong.

    However, I don't know if you agree or not, but the exploitation of fanservice is definitely more frequent in Japanese anime than it is in comics.

    Destinyheroknighton Aug. 16, 2012 at 7:29 p.m.

    @swaggity:

    I don't agree to that, I pretty much see the same amount of exploitation in both medias (still mad about what they did to Starfire)

    But I haven't read all Western Comics or Mangas, so I can't really know for sure

    sosgirl10on Aug. 20, 2012 at 5:26 p.m.

    Lol. So TRUE

    Turambaron Aug. 20, 2012 at 5:56 p.m.

    I think we all know what the answer ultimately is, and this spreads to every form of entertainment out there whether it be live action TV, video games, music, etc. The idea that one particular medium is somehow inherently inferior to another is largely bullshit. Comics and manga have such wide ranges of genre, story telling format, and visual styles, that I can guarantee that if someone looks hard enough, they can find something they like in both. And you know what? I have enough faith in the intelligence of people to be willing to say that people know this even while they spew their vitriol.

    So why the hate? Because everyone is a bit of a narcissistic asshole at their core. They want to feel good about themselves, and by extension, feel good about the media that they consume while feeling justified in not consuming others. At the end of the day, that's all there is to it.

    Let me preempt anyone already typing this by saying this does not include those who simply have a different preference. There is a difference between preferring television over comic books because you prefer what is animated over what is still frame and stating that television is great and comic books suck. There is room within that personal preference for the recognition of the larger merit in both mediums.

    sotyfan16on Aug. 31, 2012 at 2:08 a.m.

    I never got into comics. And I didn't get into manga until 2010, three years after my anime fandom. Now, I love manga and wish more anime that I enjoyed had their manga licensed in the US so I don't have to read them online.

    Dig Deeper into One Piece

    A teenage boy named Monkey D. Luffy goes on a journey to find the fabled One Piece and become Pirate King, building a crew of merry mischief-makers as he goes.

    Edit/View the Wiki
    Hit the Forums (135 Posts)
    Add/View Images (1165 Images)
    Watch Some Videos
    Pokemon Black and White Looks Delicious in Motion

    First video of a Pokemon battle in Black and White.

    Comment & Win: One Piece Vol. 52, 53

    Time for a giveaway folks! Now, act civil, we don't want anyone to get hurt in the mad rush to win.

    Beginner's Guide to FLCL

    Gainax's madcap, surrealist anime, broken down for new viewers.

    Ballz Deep

    Steve gets intimately close to Dragon Ball Z, for science!

    Top 3 Awful Anime Dubs

    Grit your teeth and get your ear plugs ready cause this week we're taking on the three most amazingly bad dubs of all time!

    The Lamest JOJO'S BIZARRE ADVENTURE Episode

    STARDUST CRUSADERS #24 -- Watch & Learn. Fiiiiiiiiller!

    Comparing DRAGON BALL to JOJO's BIZARRE ADVENTURE

    #17-18-- Retro Review. It all comes down to team dynamics...

    NARUTO SHIPPUDEN Seriously Tries to Sell You "Mecha Naruto?"

    Episode #376+377. A two-part infomercial?

    HUNTER X HUNTER #147 -- Special Review

    Don't cry now, Killua. I'm sure you'll see Gon again soon.

    Community Spotlight 9/12/2014

    Row, row! Edit the wiki, you fine AV users!

    NARUTO Ch. 692 Review

    Um,...can I have Obito back now, please?

    GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY... the Anime?

    DISC WARS is like... "POKEMON versus Marvel."

    Anime Caption Contest! -- 9/16/14

    To celebrate Sailor Moon Crystal, get a dose of Magical Girl Madness!

    Anime Caption Contest! -- 9/16/14

    To celebrate Sailor Moon Crystal, get a dose of Magical Girl Madness!

    GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY... the Anime?

    DISC WARS is like... "POKEMON versus Marvel."

    The Lamest JOJO'S BIZARRE ADVENTURE Episode

    STARDUST CRUSADERS #24 -- Watch & Learn. Fiiiiiiiiller!

    NARUTO Ch. 692 Review

    Um,...can I have Obito back now, please?

    NARUTO SHIPPUDEN Seriously Tries to Sell You "Mecha Naruto?"

    Episode #376+377. A two-part infomercial?

    Comparing DRAGON BALL to JOJO's BIZARRE ADVENTURE

    #17-18-- Retro Review. It all comes down to team dynamics...

    ONE PIECE Ch. 760 Review

    Turnabout is more than just fair play. It's mandatory in shonen.

    HUNTER X HUNTER #147 -- Special Review

    Don't cry now, Killua. I'm sure you'll see Gon again soon.

    Mandatory Network

    Submissions can take several hours to be approved.

    Save ChangesCancel