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GUILTY CROWN Roundtable Discussion -- AV MOD Material

Welcome to Team Guilty Crown's round table discussion where KuroNekoXIII, Takashichea, and Wraith wraps up the wiki project by reviewing the anime together.

Welcome to Team Guilty Crown's round table discussion where KuroNekoXIII, Takashichea, and Wraith wraps up the wiki project by reviewing the anime together. Be sure to check KuroNeko and Taka's episode reviews of Guilty Crown, too.

1st Question: What and where did Guilty Crown perform well and poorly?

Guilty Crown's stunning artwork
Guilty Crown's stunning artwork

Kuro: Personally, I thought Guilty Crown did well with the overall concept of the anime and its plot. That and the animation of the series - RedJuice's character designs were very well done. I thought the anime did badly with the pacing of the events and the overall structure of the plot-line. They needed to slow it down and took more time to fully describe things that were going on.

Wraith: It had some interesting ideas that were executed badly: Da'th was introduced way too late in the series, characterization was all over the place, and religious symbolism was felt forced.

Taka: Guilty Crown did well in the visuals and music area. I loved Bios and Euterpe because it painted the atmosphere well. When Shu obtained the Void from Inori and saves the day, Bios plays. When Inori sung Euterpe, it reflected how brutal and how senseless the war was. After season 1, Guilty Crown did a complete 180. I did not enjoy the religious dive.

Kuro: I've also enjoyed the music of the series.

Wraith: It had high production values, and I really enjoyed the music.

Taka: I remembered a review saying that Guilty Crown had so much potential because of its staff that dealt with Death Note and Code Geass. It fell on its own sword because the two didn't blend well.

Kuro: I had a question for you guys that relate to Taka's previous point.

Wraith: Guilty Crown felt like the unholy love child of Evangelion and Code Geass.

2nd Question: Many fans compared Guilty Crown to Code Geass, especially during the first few episodes. Now, that we all finished the series. Do you see any differences or similarities?

Taka: This is what I wrote down in LordBane666’s blog that had the same topic:

Similarities:

  • Ayase and Kallen are pilots of robots.
  • Hare and Shirley are the girls who died tragically and became catalysts for the main characters' change.
  • Souta and Rolo - Rolo killed Shirley on purpose while Souta and Shu indirectly caused the death of Hare
  • Milly and Arisa are rich and pretty, endowed girls.
  • Inori and C.C. are mysterious girls who are very close to the main male protagonists, Shu and Lelouch, respectively.

Wraith: As I mentioned earlier, it started out like Code Geass with the whole taking back japan thing. Then, it somehow reminded me of Evangelion towards the end.

Hare hugs Shu
Hare hugs Shu

Kuro: Regarding protagonists, Shu and Lelouche were practically polar opposites: Shu being the insecure and weak character while Lelouche being the leader type. As for plot, Code Geass was much more organized, and it didn’t leave the viewers left with a question mark. The plot flowed swiftly, and the chain of events was easy to follow. I mentioned this in LordBane666’s blog, but the scene where Shu asks Hare to comfort him was identical to the one where Lelouche asks Kallen to comfort him.

Taka: The fans remarked that Evangelion did a better job in linking religion. I haven't seen Eva, but I did see a bit of Code Geass.

Wraith: It has been such a long time since I’ve seen Code Geass, I don't remember much about it.

3rd Question: Would you recommend Guilty Crown to a new fan?

The cast and story can drive a fan crazy sometimes
The cast and story can drive a fan crazy sometimes

Wraith: Depends on the person, I just tell them not to over think things and try to enjoy the roller coaster ride.

Kuro: I'm torn between yes and no. Yes because there were interesting elements and themes that the anime explored, and the animation and music was worth while. No because it was quite difficult to follow and fully interpret and understand. Like we discussed earlier, the producers didn't fully explained the chain of events in a way that the viewers can catch easily. I liked how Wraith worded it!

Taka: I would recommend season 1 only. It's hard to say because most of the characters make you want to choke them. My most hated character in this series was Shu. Shu is such a wimpy character and goes back and forth between his resolve and making decisions in season 2. When he didn't want to discriminating Souta in the Void Ranking system, he ends up using the system after Hare's death.

4th Question: Should Guilty Crown have just ended at season 1?

Wraith: Yes, it should have ended after season 1. The way that the show ended after season 2 was just rage inducing, and the freaking robot got the best end.

Taka: Yes, it was best to quit while it was still good because Shu became a man, and Inori and Hare are still alive. I'm such a fan boy who missed Inori, Gai, and Hare. Plus, Gai looks good as a blonde. Plus, season 1 did not have any hints of biblical allusions. It was just pure science and remained in-universe.

Kuro: I also thought that as well. I thought that season 2 was just jam-packed with too many new ideas that were forced to fit in a 12-episode frame. At the end of Season 1, most of the problems have been solved, and no loose ends were left.

5th Question: Which character development impressed and surprised you the most in Guilty Crown?

Kuro: Mine has to be Arisa. I won’t go into too much detail, but she was transformed from an ideal lady-like young woman and student into someone totally different.

Wraith: Shu's character development surprised me the most. Considering how he went from wuss to Hitler to Jesus to blind and cripple. I didn't like Arisa's character development at all.

Taka: I chose Inori. She was a cold person who rarely shows emotions, and towards the end, she faced love and despair because of her time with Shu. I remember Gai's scene where she believe that she is more than a carbon copy of Mana. That was an awesome statement for Shu.

Kuro: I liked both of your responses! I find it ironic how the series discussed natural selection and evolution, yet it still had a strong religious drive.

We all know that the church totally disagreed with Darwin's "The Origin of Species". Yet in Guilty Crown, Mana, being Eve; trying to get her "Adam" so that the process of evolution and natural selection can be recreated through the fourth Apocalypse. I find that it was interesting that they put both contradicting ideas and standpoints together in the anime (religion vs science).

Kuro: Tell me how you feel about the whole religion vs science connection in Guilty Crown.

Taka: The connection between Natural Selection and Adam and Eve is pretty hard to put together. Mana wanted a mate to reproduce, but Gai had other motives. He revealed Shu, a crystal world where everyone lived in their memories. That was completely different to what Mana and Yuu wanted.

Wraith: Maybe, I wasn't really paying attention, but I don't remember much of the science talk.

Taka: I don't make sense in my statement, but I see your point, Kuro.

6th Question What were the memorable and worst things you would take from the series?

Incest and Religion shouldn't be added in Guilty Crown
Incest and Religion shouldn't be added in Guilty Crown

Taka: The most memorable scene in Guilty Crown would be Shu pulling out Inori's Void and piercing Gai and Mana at the end of season 1. The music was intense. One of the worst things I ever seen was Shu hitting on Hare when he was emo. That was pathetic on Shu's part. Hare gave him a good bitch slap to Shu. She told Shu that she is no substitution for Inori. That was an awesome comeback. You know what, the funny moments I loved were Shu getting bitch slapped by Ayase and Hare. [[Inori was too nice to Shu.]]

Wraith: Most memorable thing for me would be the music and some of the characters. The worst thing would be the whole second act trying to tie in the religous symbolism in an attempt to make the show deep.

Kuro: My most memorable part of the series was when Shu and Souta make up. Their friendship was totally battered, but they managed to forgive one another in the end. That scene was a very good since they both came to terms and confessed the things they hated about themselves. It was nice to see that they came back to their normal selves and became friends again. The worst moment in the series was the implied rape scene between Mana and Gai in season 1, and the whole incest thing between Shu and Mana.

Taka: Speaking of sex, Mana almost made Inori give Shu a blow job. That was nasty! We all agree that Guilty Crown should lay off the religion.

Kuro: Yeah, that was disgusting. Yes, I agreed that Guilty Crown should've let religion go. It doesn't really add to the plot.

Wraith: I will always remember Shu's hover segway!

Taka: Any last words, [[Kuro and Wraith]].

Kuro: I'd like to thank you guys! You guys were an amazing team to work with, and I apologize for not being around much during last semester.

Taka: No worries, Kuro. It was a blast to work with you guys, and you guys were very supportive in the weekly reports. For me, Guilty Crown was a hit or miss anime that had great music and visuals, but the characters and religious references did not go well [[together]].

Kuro: I'd like to thank my Guilty Crown teammates and the Vicers that supported my team mates and their blogs. If any of you got lost while watching Guilty Crown, we’ll try our best to help you guys and gals out!

Wraith: [[My]] last words on Guilty Crown: no way it could live up to the hype surrounding it. [[It had]] so much wasted potential, awesome music and production values, but most characters just weren’t likeable.

Note: This Roundtable took place in May 28, 2012 and posted to honor my teammates' hard work.

About the Authors

KuronekoXIII is an interdisciplinary science student, with a passion for story writing and character design. Follow him@KuroNekoXIII
Wraith is a video game and anime fan whose favorite genre is Sci Fi, Mech, and Fantasy.
Takashichea is an Asian American Studies student who is a big wiki and anime nerd. Follow him @Takashichea
ynaton March 29, 2014 at 1:14 p.m.

If you ever get the chance look up the raw manga chapters. They basically give more backstory and information then the anime and they also rap up in part 1 of the anime meaning a different ending. This ending was much and I feel it tied up the loose ends for me even though I had to use a cruddy translator to figure out what the characters where saying in some important and different parts. Overall I'd call the manga a redo of the guilty crown anime but unfortunately we may never get a remake of the anime based off the (in my opinion) far better manga.

takashichea moderator is online on March 29, 2014 at 2:20 p.m.

@ynat:

Hey there! You must be new. Welcome to Anime Vice. It's awesome to see another fan of Guilty Crown. I was actually worried that this article was too old to post, but I wanted to make it my teammates who couldn't be there due to outside obligations. I was super stoked that Tom post the roundtable.

On topic:

I haven't read the manga yet. I have to check if it's legally out. I have a motto of only reading manga that's legally out. I know it's a silly rule I implemented. I see the manga did a better job of wrapping loose ends. I'm trying to remember the loose ends in the anime. It has been 2 years since I watch this show. I admit this show wasn't as memorable as other anime series since I love and hate this show at the same time. I remember fond memories and sometimes worse memories better than the neutral ones.

What were the loose endings you mentioned? If you don't mind jogging my memory. Thank you for your comment.

We never did mention the manga since the three of us only watched the anime.

takashichea moderator is online on March 29, 2014 at 2:51 p.m.

Oh shoot, I forgot something. 2 years ago, we had a total of five teammates on this project. LordBane666 was a dedicated fan to the series. He couldn't make it to the roundtable on that day. Same goes for Colorbrandon, he was really knowledgeable with the Biblical allusions for this series. Kuro and I saw the two ideas: Creationism and Social Darwinism clash a bit in the series when ColorBrandon puts the pieces together in his Guilty Crown Ending Interpretation (spoilers).

Yeah, those days were crazy. This series had more credible somewhat circumstantial evidence like our recent anime series, Kill la Kill.

Even if you can't see these theories, maybe not theories, it makes an anime live longer in the fans. Like a video game, if it has speculations, fans will continue to talk about it. Guilty Crown and Kill la Kill has that element that would keep fans attach to their series.

ynaton March 30, 2014 at 11:58 a.m.

@takashichea:

Loose ends: In the anime they hinted at Mana not always being the evil incest loving character they showed her as, in the manga (I couldn't understand most of it) they showed some of the thoughts Mana was having possibly to make you feel for her character more considering the crystal is what made her go insane.

At the end of the anime they made it seem like Yuu (Daa'th) was still alive leaving me to think: well now hes just going to do this whole deal all over again if he's not dead :/

Inori died although her soul's still with Shu, this is a loose end simply because there's no reason Inori should have been able to save Shu because the red string she gave him (in my interpretation) has nothing to do with how she died.

The organization Daa'th is still around even if Yuu is dead so... (Daa'th not introduced as an organization until part 2)

Gai magically come back to life, and if Gai can do that why can't Mana? Guilty Crown Part 2 logic.

Half this stuff wouldn't have had to be touched if they didn't make a part 2 considering all they did in part 2 was make the series 10 times more confusing.

Ends tied up in Manga: (NOTE:MANGA ENDING FAR DIFFERENT MIND THE SPOILERS)

Gives you more background on Mana's character.

Gives more backstory with the summer before Lost Christmas and the relationship developed between Shu and Gai that summer.

Shows some of the missing scenes from the anime, ex: Inori recording her song for Shu on that hexagon thing before Shu slaps it out of her hand and destroys it (dick move Shu)

(SORT OF SPOILER) Finishes developing Shu and Inori's relationship together

(ACTUAL SPOILER)That dick Daa'th aka Yuu is killed and Kiedo is presumed dead

There's prolly more but once again the manga is raw and translating even two phrases is a pain :/. Also as far as im concerned they don't plan to translate the manga past chapter 4 which is frustrating but whatever you can get the just of things by looking at the scenes.

Off topic sort of stuff:

I loved the anime up until tyrant Shu pulled Inori's void out like he was raping her in episode 15 I believe and from that point on every episode hurt with wasted potential and me hating that (pardon the language) son of a bitch Shu. Not only that but they turned Gai into the villian which i hate because i really liked his character untill he ruined the happy ending for Shu and Inori so he could get his own happy ending, what a prick, leh sigh. Also just really hate people who wanted Shu to end up with Ayase, its frustrating simply because Inori was so dedicated to Shu at the end of the series that its seems WAY to shallow to go for Ayase after Inori died (you could argue the same thing with them killing of Hare, for Shu and Inori to develop but I never saw a romantic relationship developing between those characters and I saw it was almost completely one sided) 0/10 for the series if that happened. Although I definitely agree the anime should have ended in part 1 (manga succesfully does that :D) I gotta say may favorite episode was 18 simply because it involved Inori overcoming the monster inside her and accepting that all that mattered was that the emotions she felt for Shu were real to her, cheesy but yeah it was touching and a also complete b.a. moment for her (really liked her character.)

BTW All that religious stuff I came up with was partially based off Colorbrandon I think I gave him credit at the top I'll have to check later though but yeah I guess it was a good excuse to make it seem like the ending was a happy ending for the two of them ,I mean come on the last picture in the anime was Inori smiling you gotta think that means there's something to be happy about right... I've been really trying to re-hype the anime just because I feel it deserves a little more credit then it was given (I recently watched about a month ago so I'm ALOT late for this stuff but whatever.) I can understand why some character might not be likeable (for me: Hare, Souta, Shu, Hare, ect. I put Hare twice because of a specific scene in episode 3 where Shu's King power fails him and all Hare has to say:"I would have let you had you asked" gimme a break, oh and how can I forget Arisa no explanation needed there) but there were some great characters (for me: Inori, although emotionless its interesting to watch her develop in the series, Scarface dude (forgot name), your typical insane bad guy who's the kind of villain you find hilarious at points, Yahiro, I liked this character simply because he is imperfect in every way and is an interesting character, Ayase,Tsugumi, both are likeable characters who develop through the series.) Story was messed up beyond belief but I still liked, it plot holes didn't affect too much except leave some of the anime story up to the watchers imagination/interpretation, maybe that was the intention of the plot holes... Probably not. Can't complain about music or visuals AT ALL.

9/10 for the series as screwed up as it was I was happy I stuck around for the ride and I have to say its one of my favourites even though I just bashed it bit.

Dig Deeper into Guilty Crown

"Guilty Crown" is set in a post-apocalyptic Japan, in the year 2039. The story follows Shu Ouma, who acquires a mysterious power called "The King's Power" in which he uses to fight the overruling GHQ.

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