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Amateur vs. Expert: PERSONA 4 #14

Yip yip.

Welcome to Amateur vs. Expert, a new column wherein noted anime layperson Nick Robinson (Babylonian) squares off against anime savant Kristoffer Remmell (FoxxFireArt). The goal? To take our two columns, Anime Amateur and Anime Examiner, and combine them for your reading pleasure. Let's get started!

Kristoffer Remmell:

They say that there are two sides to every story, and that can't be more true than in this Persona 4 Ep.14. It was Nanako's simple act of kindness to a Mysterious Fox that set what could have been a boring break from school into a sitcom summer for Yu Narukami. Even Nanako dressing up as Loveline was able to effect events that tied into Yu's job at the daycare. Though, how is it that he just happen to have the Teddy suit nearby? Best not to dwell on that detail. It was funny as hell. Having Yosuke narrating the story was an elegant touch. It wasn't really needed. It just added a certain level of grandeur to such silliness that made things even funnier.

The narrative of the game actually took a back seat in these last two episodes, and everything from the Investigation Team was summed up in the last few minutes. Part of me was hoping when this series began that they would flesh out the festival scenes more from the game, but what I saw here with the job side quests was much more fulfilling. Also, this series got me again! I never thought Tanaka or the books would appear. Yet here they are. That was a lot of fun.

I'm really amazed that here I was looking forward to the sensual scenes of Sayoko Uehara, but it was actually the tragic romance of the elderly Hisano Kuroda that really touched me. People love to romanticize big gifts given on birthdays or Valentine's, but it can be these simple gestures during less important events that hold so much more meaning. I think you lack romance in your heart if you didn't find that flashback emotionally moving. We didn't lack in some flirting. We now know that it's Arcana cards that pushes Margaret's buttons. When the boss isn't around, she's pretty forward. I like that. I still got to see something impressive from Sayoko that I didn't expect. That small woman can serious put away the beer. What are your thoughts on this one, Nick?

Nick Robinson:

I really liked this one. This show is good at two things: doling out fanservice and providing original perspectives on the game's events. This episode was both of those things rolled into one!

I feel like I'm repeating the same criticisms of this show's visuals over and over, so I'll just say this: this show is at its best when the content is so pleasant that the frequently stilted visuals move to the back of my mind. This episode had its share of slideshow montages and scenes where nothing but the mouths moved, but I was so into what was actually happening onscreen that I just didn't find it as grating as usual. Crummy animation aside, this show is gradually swaying me to the position that it's a totally decent adaptation of the game. They had a fine line to tread in terms of balancing the risk between changing too much (as Trinity Soul did) and not changing enough. It's something they've pulled off a lot better than I ever would have expected. There's all the fanservice you'd expect, but also actual value in this show for P4 fans beyond the superficial "hey, I recognize that!" stuff.

And yeah, the last half of this episode was insane. In those last ten or so minutes, everything was popping off at once, Social Links were getting maxed out left and right, and Yu was struggling to keep up with it all. The breakneck pacing hearkened back to episode one for me, but instead of feeling like a Cliff's Notes, it felt like they abridged the game's side missions into one episode in a totally unique way. I'm down with that!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I felt satisfied by this episode. From the throwaway references like Tanaka and Timid Teacher to the insane density of S-Links they managed to introduce and complete over the course of 25 minutes, this week's installment was nothing if not impressive. More episodes like this, please!

Kristoffer Remmell:

You can really tell that they shot this episode with the assumption that you saw the previous one. That's not too bold a step. The episode was interesting the way everything all tied into the last. Almost as if they filmed both together then cut it into it's individual parts. It could actually be kind of interesting if someone was to edit this and last episode in continuity to watch it as a whole.

A nice story element is how Yu was working so hard for cash that wasn't even going toward his original goal. If I learned anything from this episode is some of the outlandish prices of things in Japan. I mean, 8000 yen for an umbrella with a character printed on it. Sure, I think that talking magnifying class came with it, but still. Don't even get me started on the Neo Featherman robot. Exorbitant is an understatement. Yu may not have been saying anything, but I'm sure we had the same reaction to that price quote. "Bull$%&#!".

If Yu had just stayed out of business that wasn't his own. He could have earned the money quickly enough for Nanako's umbrella, It's through this process he helped a lot of people, earned a boat load of Arcana, and had one eventful summer break. At the price of a lot of sleep, apparently. It was through helping the fox that he still earned what he needed. That's just a good way to tell a story. Don't find the obvious path of getting to your conclusion.

I went back and checked. Once again the anime has reunited the original game cast for the voice actors of the major players here for Eri, Shu, Hisano, and Sayoko. That's pretty impressive for such brief roles, but that probably made it easier. I'm just hoping for that same level of dedication for the English release. I'm just not trying to get my hopes up too high. The game had a pretty good dub cast, but I was seriously disappointed in Sentai Filmworks previous dub.

Nick Robinson:

It's definitely crazy that they got even the minor voice cast back. With no official sign yet or whether Sentai's gonna bother getting the game's cast back, it's growingly starting to look like the Japanese dub is the only one that'll get such a treatment. Bummer!

I don't know how I failed to mention it earlier, but man, seeing all the bear suit stuff from Yu's perspective only made it better. Seriously, what an hilarious and unique idea that was! That shot of his slumped over and exhausted in the smiling bear suit on the back of a city bus is gonna stick with me for a while. Haunting.

Between sleep-deprived, baggy-eyed Yu sprinting around the festival trying to get everything done and that ridiculous as hell fishing scene, this was one of my favorite episodes of the show yet. They packed so much stuff into it, but all of it was entertaining. As exhausting as it was to watch, it must've been even more exhausting to make. Well-done, P4A!

So what did you guys think of the episode? Let us know down in the comments!

Kristoffer Remmell (FoxxFireArt) is a freelance graphic artist, writer, and over all mystery geek.- Follow for news updates: @ animevice / @ FoxxFireArt

Nick Robinson (Babylonian) is a Whiskey Media intern and a journalism student. Won't you follow him on Twitter at @Babylonian? He'd be ever so appreciative!

mutha3on Jan. 21, 2012 at 1:52 p.m.

The pace was still a little jarring, I think(lots and lots of jumpcuts!). But overall, this episode worked way better than EP1 for me.

In episode 1 they were literally summarizing. They took scenes from the game, trimmed a lot of dialogue and transitions, and just hurled a bunch of exposition at you and capped it off with a fight scene. This time around they wrote a tight script for the episode which allowed them to keep it moving at the same breakneck pace without being as awkward.

I think it was a great move that they rewrote the S-links to fit with the show. In episode 5, the Kou/Ai s-links were handled poorly because, surprise, surprise, trimming a story arc down to a 1/10th of its size doesn't give good results. With this episode they kept the themes that were explored in those S-links(a mother unable to connect with her son, a nurse disgruntled by the lack of stability in her life and an old woman dealing with the loss of her husband ) but they essentially rewrote the characters so that they could fit into the framework of the show.

This was also one of the better-looking episodes. Top 3 for sure, alongside episode 4 and 12.

Neuroticon Jan. 21, 2012 at 2:36 p.m.

I don't know the details of the Sentai dub but if they don't bring back the game cast then I won't watch it dubbed. Even if they were to change the VAs I didn't like (like Yukiko's), I'd be put out. To be honest, I can see them getting Yu, Yosuke and Kanji. Johnny Yong Bosch and Yuri Lowenthal are in near everything and I seem to remember hearing Troy Baker say he'd love to play Kanji again. The ladies I dunno bout. I haven't heard Chie or Yukiko's VAs do any anime (Yukiko's VA has been in other SMT games though). I'm not absolutely desperate to hear it dubbed though, despite the fact that when I read the subtitles for some of the lines lifted straight from the game I hear it in my head as the English VAs voices.

The only issue with getting all the original game cast is what to do with Adachi. He shared a VA with the Main Character and now that Yu has dialogue it'll be obvious that they're the same guy (especially since Bosch has such a recognisable voice).

Hailinelon Jan. 21, 2012 at 2:51 p.m.

I love how the episode not only ties so well into the previous one by filling in the blanks, but also for the way it handles the various Social Links involved. In my first playthrough of Persona 4, I never pursued Hisano or Shu's Social Links, but both characters were well done in this episode, as were Eri and Sayoko. I also like how it tied back into some of the older Social Links with appearances from Ai, Kou and Daisuke (also from the previous episode).

I was particularly curious with the way they would handle Sayoko in this episode. In the game, you never meet her outside of the hospital, and she goes from seducing Yu (and possibly getting further, depending on how you view the context of certain cutaways), to overworking herself to finally transferring away. In some ways, I like the anime interpretation of her better, as she still maintains that flirty, devilish side with Yu, but manages to rediscover her reason for being a nurse without going through what I felt were an overdone shift in the latter half of her Social Link in the game (not to mention her transfer feeling more or less like a reason to prevent the player from seeing her again).

But seeing Nanako's face light up when the fox returns the umbrella, as though nothing bad had ever happened to it? That's the highlight of the episode right there.

Turambaron Jan. 21, 2012 at 3:54 p.m.
@mutha3 said:

The pace was still a little jarring, I think(lots and lots of jumpcuts!). But overall, this episode worked way better than EP1 for me.

In episode 1 they were literally summarizing. They took scenes from the game, trimmed a lot of dialogue and transitions, and just hurled a bunch of exposition at you and capped it off with a fight scene. This time around they wrote a tight script for the episode which allowed them to keep it moving at the same breakneck pace without being as awkward.

I think it was a great move that they rewrote the S-links to fit with the show. In episode 5, the Kou/Ai s-links were handled poorly because, surprise, surprise, trimming a story arc down to a 1/10th of its size doesn't give good results. With this episode they kept the themes that were explored in those S-links(a mother unable to connect with her son, a nurse disgruntled by the lack of stability in her life and an old woman dealing with the loss of her husband ) but they essentially rewrote the characters so that they could fit into the framework of the show.

This was also one of the better-looking episodes. Top 3 for sure, alongside episode 4 and 12.

This.
Hailinelon Jan. 21, 2012 at 4:21 p.m.

@Neurotic said:

I don't know the details of the Sentai dub but if they don't bring back the game cast then I won't watch it dubbed. Even if they were to change the VAs I didn't like (like Yukiko's), I'd be put out. To be honest, I can see them getting Yu, Yosuke and Kanji. Johnny Yong Bosch and Yuri Lowenthal are in near everything and I seem to remember hearing Troy Baker say he'd love to play Kanji again. The ladies I dunno bout. I haven't heard Chie or Yukiko's VAs do any anime (Yukiko's VA has been in other SMT games though). I'm not absolutely desperate to hear it dubbed though, despite the fact that when I read the subtitles for some of the lines lifted straight from the game I hear it in my head as the English VAs voices.

The only issue with getting all the original game cast is what to do with Adachi. He shared a VA with the Main Character and now that Yu has dialogue it'll be obvious that they're the same guy (especially since Bosch has such a recognisable voice).

Yukiko's English voice actress in the game is Amanda Winn Lee, who among other roles is probably best known as the English voice of Rei Ayanami in ADV's Neon Genesis Evangelion dub and the End of Evangelion movie.

@mutha3: @Turambar: I still liked that Ai/Kou episode. I still don't know why you guys flipped your shit so much over it.

mutha3on Jan. 21, 2012 at 5:37 p.m.

@Hailinel:

I find it hard to describe it my reaction as "flipping my shit", personally....

I dug the episode because of its fanservice, but it was not a very good representation of the Moon/Strength S-link at all and I would have preferred if they had chosen to focus on the main party exclusively instead.

Still, I can't deny that seeing Yosuke be a total cock and dat hilarious catfight kept me perfectly entertained throughout.

.....but anyway, that episode was not well-paced, the resolutions were nonsensical and it felt extremely detached from the central characters and the plot. Pretty simple.

EDIT:still liked it, though! Like I mentioned in my original post.

Hailinelon Jan. 21, 2012 at 6:04 p.m.

@mutha3 said:

@Hailinel:

I find it hard to describe it my reaction as "flipping my shit", personally....

I dug the episode because of its fanservice, but it was not a very good representation of the Moon/Strength S-link at all and I would have preferred if they had chosen to focus on the main party exclusively instead.

Still, I can't deny that seeing Yosuke be a total cock and dat hilarious catfight kept me perfectly entertained throughout.

.....but anyway, that episode was not well-paced, the resolutions were nonsensical and it felt extremely detached from the central characters and the plot. Pretty simple.

EDIT:still liked it, though! Like I mentioned in my original post.

Ah. Well, I guess I just remembered incorrectly. Sorry about that.

Waleson Jan. 21, 2012 at 8 p.m.

All your yens...yip yip yap.

Babylonian staff on Jan. 21, 2012 at 8:56 p.m.

@Neurotic said:

The only issue with getting all the original game cast is what to do with Adachi. He shared a VA with the Main Character and now that Yu has dialogue it'll be obvious that they're the same guy (especially since Bosch has such a recognisable voice).

The smart thing to do would be to get JYB to voice Adachi, and have someone totally different do Yu. People won't notice if Yu sounds 'wrong,' since he spoke almost zero times in the game, but replacing Adachi would be a big deal to a lot of people.

Also, in case all this talk about the dub wasn't enough of a bummer, check this out: I emailed the guy who voiced Dojima, and he said he didn't remember the character at all. How heartbreaking is that?!

AlKusanagion Jan. 21, 2012 at 11:05 p.m.

I love how they keep managing to surprise me every episode. The next episode nearly broke me. I haven't laughed that hard at an anime in years!

However, I will not be truly sated until we gets some FUNKY STUDENT up in here!!!

Destinyheroknighton Jan. 21, 2012 at 11:45 p.m.

A good episode Yip Yip Yo!

Hailinelon Jan. 22, 2012 at 12:54 a.m.

@Babylonian said:

@Neurotic said:

The only issue with getting all the original game cast is what to do with Adachi. He shared a VA with the Main Character and now that Yu has dialogue it'll be obvious that they're the same guy (especially since Bosch has such a recognisable voice).

The smart thing to do would be to get JYB to voice Adachi, and have someone totally different do Yu. People won't notice if Yu sounds 'wrong,' since he spoke almost zero times in the game, but replacing Adachi would be a big deal to a lot of people.

Also, in case all this talk about the dub wasn't enough of a bummer, check this out: I emailed the guy who voiced Dojima, and he said he didn't remember the character at all. How heartbreaking is that?!

That's not unusual, given the number of roles some voice actors take. Actors that do a lot of voice work, particularly if it's work that only takes a few days in the recording booth to complete, might have trouble remembering the role unless it made an impact on them in some way.

mutha3on Jan. 22, 2012 at 2:49 a.m.

@Hailinel said:

@Babylonian said:

@Neurotic said:

The only issue with getting all the original game cast is what to do with Adachi. He shared a VA with the Main Character and now that Yu has dialogue it'll be obvious that they're the same guy (especially since Bosch has such a recognisable voice).

The smart thing to do would be to get JYB to voice Adachi, and have someone totally different do Yu. People won't notice if Yu sounds 'wrong,' since he spoke almost zero times in the game, but replacing Adachi would be a big deal to a lot of people.

Also, in case all this talk about the dub wasn't enough of a bummer, check this out: I emailed the guy who voiced Dojima, and he said he didn't remember the character at all. How heartbreaking is that?!

That's not unusual, given the number of roles some voice actors take. Actors that do a lot of voice work, particularly if it's work that only takes a few days in the recording booth to complete, might have trouble remembering the role unless it made an impact on them in some way.

But....but....HE'S DOJIMA. How do you not remember Dojima?? We ain't talking about drama girl here or something!

Did you happen to get any responses from the other VA's, @Babylonian:?

Babylonian staff on Jan. 22, 2012 at 2:58 a.m.

@Hailinel said:

That's not unusual, given the number of roles some voice actors take. Actors that do a lot of voice work, particularly if it's work that only takes a few days in the recording booth to complete, might have trouble remembering the role unless it made an impact on them in some way.

I get the 'why,' but that doesn't make it any less disappointing, especially considering how every other P4 cast member I spoke to remembered their characters pretty fondly!

@mutha3 said:

Did you happen to get any responses from the other VA's, @Babylonian:?

I did! I heard back from the voice actors for Yosuke, Margaret, Namatame and Nanako - all of whom confirmed that they hadn't heard a peep from Sentai regarding the dub. I opted not to write a story on it, since Sentai was still sticking by their "we have nothing to announce" line (and there's that whole problem with trying to prove a negative), but yeah, it's looking pretty grim.

It's weird: you'd think that they would want to just release it subs-only, since that's way cheaper and pisses way fewer people off than dubbing it with a new cast - except they explicitly confirmed to me that it will be getting some sort of dub. Buh. This is making me want to reopen this case for investigation!

Neuroticon Jan. 22, 2012 at 3:06 a.m.

@Hailinel said:

@Neurotic said:

I don't know the details of the Sentai dub but if they don't bring back the game cast then I won't watch it dubbed. Even if they were to change the VAs I didn't like (like Yukiko's), I'd be put out. To be honest, I can see them getting Yu, Yosuke and Kanji. Johnny Yong Bosch and Yuri Lowenthal are in near everything and I seem to remember hearing Troy Baker say he'd love to play Kanji again. The ladies I dunno bout. I haven't heard Chie or Yukiko's VAs do any anime (Yukiko's VA has been in other SMT games though). I'm not absolutely desperate to hear it dubbed though, despite the fact that when I read the subtitles for some of the lines lifted straight from the game I hear it in my head as the English VAs voices.

The only issue with getting all the original game cast is what to do with Adachi. He shared a VA with the Main Character and now that Yu has dialogue it'll be obvious that they're the same guy (especially since Bosch has such a recognisable voice).

Yukiko's English voice actress in the game is Amanda Winn Lee, who among other roles is probably best known as the English voice of Rei Ayanami in ADV's Neon Genesis Evangelion dub and the End of Evangelion movie.

Oh yeah, I forgot she was Rei as well. That's a pretty big role. Oops.

@Babylonian said:

@Neurotic said:

The only issue with getting all the original game cast is what to do with Adachi. He shared a VA with the Main Character and now that Yu has dialogue it'll be obvious that they're the same guy (especially since Bosch has such a recognisable voice).

The smart thing to do would be to get JYB to voice Adachi, and have someone totally different do Yu. People won't notice if Yu sounds 'wrong,' since he spoke almost zero times in the game, but replacing Adachi would be a big deal to a lot of people.

Also, in case all this talk about the dub wasn't enough of a bummer, check this out: I emailed the guy who voiced Dojima, and he said he didn't remember the character at all. How heartbreaking is that?!

That's a good point. I think that could work. Sucks about the dude who doesn't remember playing Dojima but the game did come out a while ago now and Dojima's not really a huge role.

DXmagmaon Jan. 22, 2012 at 5:04 a.m.

ALL YO YENS YIP YIP YAP

Hailinelon Jan. 22, 2012 at 9:21 a.m.

@mutha3 said:

@Hailinel said:

@Babylonian said:

@Neurotic said:

The only issue with getting all the original game cast is what to do with Adachi. He shared a VA with the Main Character and now that Yu has dialogue it'll be obvious that they're the same guy (especially since Bosch has such a recognisable voice).

The smart thing to do would be to get JYB to voice Adachi, and have someone totally different do Yu. People won't notice if Yu sounds 'wrong,' since he spoke almost zero times in the game, but replacing Adachi would be a big deal to a lot of people.

Also, in case all this talk about the dub wasn't enough of a bummer, check this out: I emailed the guy who voiced Dojima, and he said he didn't remember the character at all. How heartbreaking is that?!

That's not unusual, given the number of roles some voice actors take. Actors that do a lot of voice work, particularly if it's work that only takes a few days in the recording booth to complete, might have trouble remembering the role unless it made an impact on them in some way.

But....but....HE'S DOJIMA. How do you not remember Dojima?? We ain't talking about drama girl here or something!

Did you happen to get any responses from the other VA's, @Babylonian:?

Dojima stilll has relatively few voice-acted lines in the game. It's a bigger role than a lot of the Social Links, but it's not voicing Yukiko or Yosuke.

mutha3on Jan. 22, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.

@Neurotic: @Hailinel:

Its only relatively few in the context of a game with a massive script. I imagine Dojima has more lines than a lot of videogame protagonists.

And even then, I don't know about calling it "relatively few". Dojima had at least one fully voice acted scene a month in the game(getting drunk, busting your balls for doing weird things around town, the Nanako stuff etc). I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of lines he had were only slightly less than, say, Naoto. Its quite a bit more than the likes of Morooka, Kashiwagi and Namatame at least.

Hailinelon Jan. 22, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.

@mutha3 said:

@Neurotic: @Hailinel:

Its only relatively few in the context of a game with a massive script. I imagine Dojima has more lines than a lot of videogame protagonists.

And even then, I don't know about calling it "relatively few". Dojima had at least one fully voice acted scene a month in the game(getting drunk, busting your balls for doing weird things around town, the Nanako stuff etc). I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of lines he had were only slightly less than, say, Naoto. Its quite a bit more than the likes of Morooka, Kashiwagi and Namatame at least.

He's a prominent secondary character, yes, but it's also only one character out of numerous that he's voiced. And as far as I can tell, Persona 4 is the only Megami Tensei game he's had a prominent role in. This isn't like Yuri Lowenthal or other actors that have relatively prolific histories in working on the series. Lowenthal has voiced the likes of Yosuke, the Persona 3 MC and Ryoji, or Karen Strassman, who has voiced Nanako, Izanami, Aigis, and various smaller roles. David Lodge's only MegaTen role of note that I can find is Dojima, and that's in a voice acting career that's stretched back to the late '80s/early '90s. If he spent maybe a week in the recording booth performing Dojima, I wouldn't blame him for forgetting by this point. He probably just moved on to his next role as soon as his work on Persona 4 was finished and didn't look back.

mutha3on Jan. 22, 2012 at 1:36 p.m.

@Hailinel: Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the man for anything...its just kind of a bummer.

Also-and this may just be me exposing my ignorance on the subject matter- does it really only take about a week to record a performance like that? I remember Atlus saying the localization effort takes about 10 months( that includes QA, licensing, programming etc. of course.)

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