Today’s questions run a little more provocative. I suppose we can’t always play softball, though.
zaldar: Moe....good, bad, or scary? Loli....good, bad, scary?
I think loli’s gross. Big surprise. I might say that having nieces has influenced my feelings, but... they actually aren't necessary. I’d think it was disgusting in any circumstance. Do I even need to explain why? I’ve actually considered bringing this up a few times since I started this column, but it was honestly something I never wanted to get into. I'd rather pretend it doesn't exist.
Moe… I hadn’t even heard of that before you brought it up. I looked it up on Wikipedia and the definition really isn’t that much clearer to me. It means liking a certain type of character a lot? If that’s the case, it’d seem like another case in anime where a specific name’s given to something that probably doesn’t even need a specific name (sort of like fan service.)
N15PCA: How do you feel about people dressing in Nazis cosplay at comic book and anime conventions?
You know, I’ve actually thought about this a couple times recently. Once was when I passed a guy dressed as Kroenen from HELLBOY at Comic Con. The other was when I watched the HETALIA: AXIS POWERS trailer at Anime Expo and then saw some kids I presume were cosplaying as its characters later. Do I think this kind of cosplay is in bad taste? Yeah. Would I approve of my friends or my nieces cosplaying like this? No. But I wonder if people might have the same apprehensions about, say, samurai cosplay.
See, I grew up in Singapore and, even with 50 years past, there was still a lot of bad blood regarding the Japanese occupation in World War II. Does imperial Japan’s appropriation of bushido taint everything associated with it (samurai, katanas, the rising star and so on) in the same way that Germany's co-opting of the Indian swastika has made it taboo in the Western world? Should it? At the end of the day, this is just about putting silly costumes on at a convention. There are far more important things to debate. But I will say that it's a thorny cultural thicket to get into once you start judging which historical symbols are more inappropriate than others.
Anyway, I've only got a few more questions to get through. Post some more in this talkback and I'll be sure to get around to answering them eventually in this column.
Tom Pinchuk’s the writer of HYBRID BASTARDS! & UNIMAGINABLE. Order them on Amazon here & here.
A "loli" is just a character that appears or is young. Such examples would be Evangeline & Anya, from Negima!; Ringo Akai & Mimi Usami, from Okamisan; Rebecca Miyamoto, from Pani Poni Dash; Nagi Sanzenin, from Hayate The Combat Butler; Ayumi Yoshida, from Detective Conan; Luna, from My Bride is a Mermaid; Sasami, from Tenchi Muyo; Shinobu & Sarah, from Love Hina; and Nunnally & Anya, from Code Geass. The term "loli" is more specific as a character description. They are female characters that are young in appearance.
"Lolicon" is more based around the term "Lolita Complex". Someone who has a desire for under age females. "Lolis" are the targets "Lolicons". They aren't the same thing.
"Lolicon" can also be a genre of anime series. A series that is designed for the lolicon audience. Often being sexually exploitative of the "loli" characters, one such example is Kodomo no Jikan. That was all about the sexual exploitation of minors.
I understand being against the "lolicon" genre. I'm not defending that.
I'm just confused by the sweeping statement about lolis in general. Are you stating that it's 'disgusting under any circumstance' to have a character that appears to be a young girl even in a series?
Series such as Hidamari Sketch, Sketchbook, Cardcaptor Sakura, and Lucky Star could be considered "Loli" genre, since their primary cast is underage girls. That doesn't make them "lolicon" series.
On the other topic, My grandfather fought in the Pacific front of WWII.
Which was adapted into a Stan Kubrik film and is in itself a great classical work of fiction.
As far as Nazi's go, history is filled with atrocities. Even in ww2 no major player's hands are clean. Nazi's aren't the only ones who played dirty, Stalin killed many more innocents than Hitler, and even the godly Allies weren't above firebombing entire civilian populations-they turned Dresden into a literal oven. Same go's in the pacific, innocent blood on everyone's hands there.
People want to dress in SS regalia, Red Army tunics, or even like Genghis Kahn I say let them, it should be their free choice.
And there is particular fascination in anime with Nazi uniform's, because of hate? Na, I think because the uniforms look cool.
I'm more than aware of the origins of the term "loli" from Lolita, but just because a character is a "loli" doesn't mean the series is a "lolicon" series.
Rebecca Miyamoto, from Pani Poni Dash, would be considered a "loli" character since she is ten years old, but I don't see how she could be considered disgusting. The anime she is the star of is a comedy/parody series.
From the way his statement is phrased. I'm confused if he means "lolicon" series are disgusting, or if he thinks any "loli" character in any series is disgusting. I'm asking for clarification. It just strikes me as odd to be so strongly against a character for looking young, since that is what defines a character as a "loli". They appear young.
I understand being against "lolicon" series. That Komodo no Jikan was a seriously disturbing series that highly sexualized girls in grade school.
Cardcaptor Sakura's cast is primarily "loli", but the series is targeted to a young female audience. It's not a "lolicon" series.
I personally don't care about any of these. I randomly burst out in a Nazi march now and then just to dick around (I don't dress like one though). As for the loli and lolicon I have no problem. Loli characters are just part of anime and I accept that because it can add to the humor (but the loli never gets the guy in the harem, so sad). Now, do I enjoy lolicon? Not exactly. I treat lolicon as just another characteristic and if I see it or read it doesn't phase me as I'm not into underage girls.
Wouldn't Chu-Bra fall in both categories? And so many people love that show...hmm.
My points on lolicon:
First off, the portrayal in anime and manga is fictional and no real girl, or boy, is harmed or looked at in a sexual manner. I've read a number of hentai manga and while the lolis don't suit my taste I continue reading and get past those moments. Second, why is there only heat on lolicon? I guess there's no reason to sweat brother-sister, aunt-nephew, mother-son, teacher-student, etc. material. Third, it's the people not the medium and Chris Handley got fucked by the system.
To quote Wikipedia :
"Moe!" is also used within anime fandom as an interjection referring to a character the speaker considers to be a moekko (a blossoming or "budding" girl). "
In that case, I am attracted to cute characters.
But I don't like sexualization of cute young characters.
I don't like Lolicon.
To quote Wikipedia again:
"it can refer to actual or perceived pedophilia and ephebophilia. "
Not my cup of (green) tea.
The only character that successfully pulls off the "cute" and "sexy" appeal
at the same time is Yoko from Gurren Lagann in my book. Though I don't think she's Loli, she's just got a cute face. -^^-
As for the Nazi Cosplay:
It could be offensive, but then again it's costume.
It really depends of why your doing it, like say your cosplaying Germany from Hetaila or some other Anime/Manga, Movie, Comic Series, etc...'
Where you're doing it, like a Convention or something and you're not just going to everyday places lookin' like a Nazi.
Also maybe censoring the swastika? Otherwise I don't think it's too big of a deal. ^^
Yeah. Her face. That's really where you were looking?
Moe is also something that doesn't offend me at all. If some particular aspect of a character appeals to a person, why would that be objectionable to some? Don't most of us have some physical identifier that we are drawn to? Blond hair, green eyes, short, tall, big boobs, long hair, etc...are all examples of aspects we may or may not find pleasing. In moe it's just a little more specific to things like wears glasses or twin ponytails. Heh, it can even extend to the clothing/armor that the character wears such as becoming a military jet. I find it to be a progression of "you look good in summer colors" and nothing to get bent out of shape over.
Finally, there is the whole Nazi thing. Since Japan fought on the side of the Axis, I don't think it's unusual for anime to be more sympathetic to those allies from the war. It seems to me that Japan has been wrestling with the outcome to the war for the last 65 years just as America has had trouble with its loss in Vietnam since 1975. Truth be told, except for that whole genocide and mad dash towards world domination thing, there are many appealing elements to the Third Reich from a story design approach. They've got impressive uniforms, better weapons, throw a bigger better rally, and have all those cool buildings that seem to be out of some other time. The war's victors seem rather bland by comparison. So, creative license is used by some writers to embellish those admirable attributes while omitting the more contentious ones, i.e. the murder of 6 million Jews. Not doing so would seem hypocritical considering Japanese actions in China during their occupation.
The Nazi cosplay seen at some conventions doesn't bother me any more than seeing Nazi memorabilia for sale at gun shows. However, I don't believe that any student should have the right to wear costumes or tee-shirts displaying the Nazi swastika to school or school-related functions. Unless the world has changed drastically since I was in high-school, you can't wear clothing that displays the use of drugs, alcohol, is overtly sexual, or profane either, so keep your SS uniform replicas reserved for the Otaku-con. I don't know where children get the idea that they have a right to express themselves on school property. All schools have a dress code, this would just be another edict within it.
Like, Yeah! Of course! ^^
What about you? :P
The skull in her hair. It keeps changing depending on her facial expression you know.
Nazi cosplay... I wouldn't do it, I don't get why you'd do it unless you thought Nazi's were awesome but as long as you're not breaking any conventions rules all I can do is chalk it up to bad taste and shake my head, just like when I see the obligatory obese man dressed as Sailor Moon or Sakura.
Really? Wow...that's something I never noticed. Good Eye.
No, a "loli" is just a character of a young appearance. A female doesn't even have to be underage to be a "loli". They just look young.
The sexual exploitation of "loli" characters is called "lolicon".
I never said you weren't, I wasn't really directing that statement at anyone in particular.
Loli- a young character or a character who looks exceptionally young
Lolicon- a pedophile who like to get with Loli's.
That's part of why I'm confused. Why would it be disgusting to just have a character that appears young?
@Nanashi:
It's because the Nazis were responsible for one of the largest and most sadistic genocides in world history since the Crusades. They tortured and slaughtered millions of innocent people for just being Jewish. They gassed them alive, burned them alive, conducted experiments on them, buried them alive, and that's just a few of their atrocities.
I think that Loli means a young character who in some way could be sexualized, not even overtly but if they are nude in anyway, even taking a bath or something ect. Generally every young girl in anime is a loli. Lolicon's are the adult anime characters who go after those loli's.
I don't think people who cosplay as Nazi's advocate that stuff, nor even understand the true dogma of National Socialism.
Same thing when people dress as soviets, I doubt they really advocate the forced starvation and torture ect.
This is an interesting list of mass murders: http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html
What I find much more disturbing that people dressing as SS, is the fact that the number one on that list still has his regime in place today, and in fact is the U.S's biggest trading partner.
That's part of what I mean. Any young female character in a series is a loli. I don't see how just their presence in an anime makes it "disgusting", as Tom put it.
Tom when talking about "loli" said:
I'm just curious if when Tom is referring to "loli", but really means "lolicon", as in the theme of animes that sexually exploit the loli characters. Since that theme is intended for the "lolicon" audience. That's understandable. It's where he said " -in any circumstance". That's where I'm confused about what he means.
When you see people dressed up as Nazi soldiers, how is that not advocating their actions? They aren't fictional characters, such as Joker. These people actually did commit atrocities. There are people still alive who experienced it. When you see the KKK or other white supremacist groups have marches. One of the flags you more often see is the Nazi flag. I'd be just as disturbed if I went to a comic convention and someone was walking arounnd with a Klu Klux Klan outfit. What is a person trying to say by doing such a thing?
Idk, but personally I don't care what some individual dude believes in, he can believe what he likes and I can ignore him. As I said the real disturbing thing is that things like genocide ect. really go on and no one does anything about it.
And I understand that the American education system may be in the shitter, but if people don't understand what Nazism represents.. /facepalm