What the F@#$ Did I Just Watch?! EVANGELION Episode #26

Topic started by No_name_here on May 18, 2010. Last post by hitsusatsu11 3 years, 9 months ago.
Post by Ryuku_Ryosake (58 posts) See mini bio Level 6
@hitsusatsu11: Well that's what Yui wanted for herself not her son. Given the fact that her wish come true even if Instrumentality was accepted or rejected. Her wish seems to fly in the face of Instrumentality even if Shinji chose it. She want there to be at least one individual human soul to be left over.
 
I understand you are more comparing the GPR to our world's standard not Eva's. In the Eva universe every living thing has an AT field which can produce results which would be godlike by out world's standards but in Eva are fairly common. There is a whole universe teeming with Angel life with strong AT fields. The GPR probably have super advanced intelligence and strong AT fields. However since they are referred to in a plural sense it seems they retain in individuality. Which as we learned in this episode can only be obtained by restricting oneself. In order to have a god like omnipotence you have to be one with all things and have no boundaries. Thus losing oneself and returning everything to nothingness. To have the pure freedom and thus be all powerful Shinji achieves this state in this episode. So essentially a God is impossible in the Eva universe unless through Instrumentality which the GPR is against.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Ryuku_Ryosake: so on yuy, she wants shinji to either reject or except instrumentality, but herself will live on with 01 for ever as a testament to mankind regardless if instrumentality is initiated or not? This seems kinda like two contradictory things, I mean if shinji chose instrumentality then certainly everything would be LCL, there would be no 01 to float out into space, i think.  
 
And I think the GPR would be nigh omnipotent, I mean they are the first in all the universe, and create all life. I think they would be even more abstract than the angels, as opposed to some little green martian-esque men flying around in saucers. 
 
But just curious, what other race would you compare them to in fiction? 
 
I would say GPR= Celestials (marvel), or Great Old Ones (lovecraft) 
 
And I see the Adam-Lilith supreme being as = Eternity (marvel), or perhaps Muti-Eternity (marvel), or kinda like Thanos when he became one with THOTU.
 
Although there is no definite answer id like to hear ppl's opinions on the above question on the mysterious GPR, and also any theories on how the GPR came to be, have they always existed like some Lovecraftian beings, were they themselves created, did they somehow evolve? 
 
This whole GPR thing adds yet another layer to the already multi-layered nature of NGE. What other show's combine Mecha, Psychology, Philosophy, Action, Romance, as well as general mind f$#%kery like NGE?
Post by Ryuku_Ryosake (58 posts) See mini bio Level 6
@hitsusatsu11: Eva 01 is very strange. It is not needed as a part of Instrumentality. Instrumentality could happen  just by Adam and Lilith touching no need for Eva's. When Instrumentality starts every living thing besides Eva-01 is left. Eva-01 seems to be the only thing able to retain it's AT field during Instrumentality. It was pretty much built for this purpose. That's what Yui wanted.
 
I would find it very hard to classify them by other fiction since the Eva world operates very differently. In Eva the mind, perception, and individualism is creation. The GPR would be more like a God who limited themselves to create existence. Everything in Eva is part of the god but exists because there are limits of individuality placed on itself. So by the simple fact of becoming the GPR they are no longer gods in fact all other life is the part of the same gods. However the GPR are just have the largest slice of the god pie and further break themselves down in Angels and Lilim. In fact Seele's goal is to usurp the GPR by using Instrumentality rejoin all life into the single original God. The GPR are probably most similar to Rei and Kaworu with both intelligence and a strong AT field but with a limited perception. The only thing that stops them from being a god is that they are not omnipresent and only experience life through their unique individual perspective.
Post by ReVolutionOfEvangelion (102 posts) See mini bio Level 3
@hitsusatsu11:   Wow...No.  No.  Yui Ikari was opposed to Instrumentality.  She realizes its a bad thing.  She wants "a better life for her son" so she wants to stop Instrumentality, which would be bad for him.
 
"Staying around forever" was a  secondary perk.  her primary goal was "sabotage Instrumentality"
 
No, the "First Ancestral Race" were simply God-like aliens.  There's a whole list of tropes on this, but they're just God-like aliens, utterly unrelated to Earth religions; again, directly ripping off the Firstborn from 2001: A Space Odyssey.  The religions symbols have no meaning.
 
Why do you keep calling them "Great Progenitor Race" all-caps?  The actual term used in the guidebooks is "First Ancestral Race" (its even in wikipedia)
Post by ReVolutionOfEvangelion (102 posts) See mini bio Level 3
@Tom_Pinchuk:    If you go into the DVD menu for episode 26, and shift from Japanese to English audio during the credits, that comes up.  It might only be in the Platinum Edition DVDs, it was an easter egg.  
 
And again it stresses:  everyone working on this could tell it really wasn't what they were leading up to, there was a finale movie on the way.
 
 End of Evangelion is the Serenity to the TV series' "FireFly".  
 
Problem was that....you know how some fans "like to pretend Serenity didn't happen" because Wash died?  Well, End of Eva ran into similar problems....except that enough people, SO MANY people were expecting an utterly cheap, pandering, happy ending with a wedding or something, that when the actual ending happened, they chose to ignore it.
 
Susan Napier of "Akira to Howl's Moving Castle" fame, mentions End of Eva for ONE line in an article on the series she wrote, simply to say "End of Eva was revenge on fans and wasn't canonical"....which was...a SHOCKING statement for an anime researcher in her position.
 
Compare this to how last year, "Anime and Philosophy" (part of the popular philosophy book series) devoted an article to Eva, but the writer took it as a given that End of Eva was "the ending".  
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@ReVolutionOfEvangelion said:

Why do you keep calling them "Great Progenitor Race" all-caps?  The actual term used in the guidebooks is "First Ancestral Race" (its even in wikipedia) "

Idk really, I guess i thought I heard it some where, FAR it is then. 
 
So if Yuy wanted the better world for her son to live in to be without instrumentality, then she only wanted to work on the Evas to save her sons future world from the Angels, and not to initiate instrumentality at all, or did she truly want shinji to choose? 
 
And why would Yuy want to live forever in the Eva as a testament to mankind, is she really that much of humanist that she'd sacrifice her eternity just so her race could be proven to have existed? 
 
And yes EoE is far more concise, though I do have some questions about it which I will ask after Tom watches it.
Post by ethan (887 posts) See mini bio Level 15
Staff
@rocketbomber said:
" Yep. 
 
but I echo the comments of @ hitsusatsu11 above.  This series, alas, has no canon, definitive ending.  Welcome to the club, and I think you can stop calling yourself a noob -- unless that's the column 'hook' and title. "
@Tom_Pinchuk: 
Tom, you've been endorsed!  My baby's all grownsed up!  When you're all grownsed up your all grownsed up!
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,640 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator
@Tom_Pinchuk said:

" @FoxxFireArt: Ahhhhh... I get it out, now. HA! It's kind of like that bit in STAR TREK: GENERATIONS where Data finally gets a joke five years after Jordie said it."

As a LONG time watcher of Star Trek: TNG. I know EXACTLY that moment. Levar Burton Rules! When I originally wrote that comment. I wasn't aware you hadn't watched this series before.

"Of course I don't advocate death threats. I'm just saying that since I, myself, was frustrated by this ending, I can understand (not sympathize with) why obsessive fans with loose grips on reality would make threats to Gainax over this. "

I wasn't trying to claim you were actually advocating such behavior. I was just pointing out the absurdity of it all. I've had death threats targeted at me before.

That said, my enmity toward the VIZ Media manga publisher is very well know on this site. I wont edit any profiles on Anime Vice of mangas they produce and distribute. I would love to see the company collapse, but I'd never want to see someone actually physically harmed.
Yeah, things got crazy in that Hudlin interview comments. I'm sure Babs never saw that coming when she interviewed the man.
Post by No_name_here (855 posts) See mini bio Level 11
Staff
@kuromochi:  You know, my imagination hasn't been captured by show like this in a long time. I'll get into more detail when I'm done.
Post by mediaright (75 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@Tom_Pinchuk: His demo reel actually.
Post by kuromochi (9 posts) See mini bio Level 4
@ReVolutionOfEvangelion: To be fair, if one needed to look into interviews and supplemental material in order to figure on a "definitive" meaning of any kind, that usually qualifies as a failure. What truly matters if the work itself.  And failing beautifully can be seen in a positive light despite what many fear.
Post by LordCraven (46 posts) See mini bio Level 8
@ReVolutionOfEvangelion:
Oh, Revolution. Where have you been all my life <3  :P 
Although not understanding Evangelion was one of the reasons it's my favorite anime, knowing more about it means I can share it with other people better. 
Before it was like: "so this anime's about giant robots fighting Angels, exept the're not really robots but giant humans and there not really angels but big moster things that bullets don't work on unless a giant robot is holding the gun..." :P
 
Next weekend I'll be showing Rebuild 1.11 & 2.0 to a coworker of mine who thinks Avatar is the best thing in the world ever.   I hope her mind doesn't asplode during the process....
Post by newave (102 posts) See mini bio Level 10
hahaha....i said this a few back ...but like i said. everyone says what the f@#$ did i just watch at the end of eva.
Post by Burntlettuce (155 posts) See mini bio Level 14
I said this last time, but the 25 and 26 are easier to appreciate once you see EoE, and yes they do make sense. 
Post by ReVolutionOfEvangelion (102 posts) See mini bio Level 3
@LordCraven:   

knowing more about it means I can share it with other people better.

 *That*, sir, is the "ReVolution":  we're popularizing anime and taking it to the streets.  The entire "ReVolutinOfEvangelion.org fansite was created by the AdultSwim.com messageboard's Evangelion fandom.  Were the [adult swim] crowd, me and my moderators.  Heck, I first watched the show by *randomly flicking channels and landing on "Giant Robot Week" in 2003, then just watched the rest off Adult Swim.  
 
If we don't popularize anime, it will fall back into being a small-scale hobbyists import trade.
 
Make sure you show your co-worker the English dub of Rebuild #1:  admittedly it was very similar to the first 6 episodes, but the bonus we English speaking fans get was that *everyone except Misato and Shinji got recast so its new*, and even for Misato and Shinji, *13 years of experience made them seem like entirely new voice actors, with jaw-dropping performances*
 

Post by wwfunderaker (485 posts) See mini bio Level 15
I just watched the last episode and i would be pissed off it that were to happen in any of the latest anime or even any tv Programme, at least they made amends, Time to watch end of Evangelion.
Post by SamJaz (12,619 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@mediaright: Thank you so freaking much for posting that. Now to watch the movie in question.
Post by mediaright (75 posts) See mini bio Level 5
@Tom_Pinchuk: ...better late than never... This is from Spike Spencer's demo reel (kinda a goodie at the end). I think it's also on one of the DVD's in there somewhere as a hidden extra.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,746 posts) See mini bio Level 20
I want to point out that the pure white infinite world/plane of existence shinji enters is much like the one that the unnamed character enters into at the end of Lovecrafts Ex Oblivione- a place  beyond infinity in which death manifests as an endless expanse and void of nothingness.
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