What the F@#$ Did I Just Watch?! END OF EVANGELION

Topic started by No_name_here on May 21, 2010. Last post by kenshi 3 years, 11 months ago.
Post by OmegaChosen (43 posts) See mini bio Level 6
@Ryuku_Ryosake: I basically agree with everything you've said except for few things on your first response. Deciding to not try to stop something because it'll happen anyway is a very nihilistic and/or fatalistic mindset. Though it does makes sense in some regards it is very depressing and assuming that that was the mindset of the FAR, then they would have never sent the Seeds across the universe in the first place. Yes, countless of seeded and non-seeded life on planets have probably been wiped out by interstellar phenomenon on a fairly regular basis but the fact that they created the Seeds in the first place shows that the FAR was optimistic towards life. A possible mindset that they might have had was that yes, life would inevitably die and fight and end but to not even try to have that life and to spread it would be even more foolish and damaging. That's kind of the message Shinji's mind therapy had: life may be painful but you can still enjoy that life. 
I think that the FAR believed that the life they spread throughout the universe would continue and they wanted to try to give them the best chances they could, possibly past their own existence. Just as Eva-01 will be sign that humans have lived, so shall it be a sign the FAR lived as well. 
Regarding Shinji, I still believe Instrumentality is locally based. Yes, Rei/Lilith/Adam obtained god-like powers but if they had god-like powers so did every other Seed on every other seeded planet. I believe that the power Rei wielded was only localized on her own seeded planet and not any others. After all, every time she traversed time she was only able to have a Rei ghost show up to stare at Shinji for a few seconds before disappearing promptly. Not exactly the most powerful example of space-time manipulation I've seen. It makes perfect sense that Instrumentality is only localized to the planet of their seed, at least to me. I'm pretty sure the FAR did want Instrumentality, however. Instrumentality was specifically mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls so the FAR evidently expected it to happen or at least saw it as a possible outcome. What Instrumentality actually is is a forced evolution of the species into a higher order of existence. It just so happens that for humans that entails fusing everyone together into goo. :/ That seems pretty bad to us as an individualistic species but on the grand scale of things evolution is a good thing but only if they are ready. As such, it makes more sense to me that Instrumentality is a localized thing, for when a species reaches a certain plateau and thus is "rewarded" with ascension. The reason I think Shinji was able to escape Instrumentality after the fact was because Rei gave him special treatment during the whole process. She asked him whether he wanted to become one with everyone and he said no, allowing him to return to his own existence and free himself, thereby giving everyone else the ability to as well.
This is just what I've interpreted on my own and from the evageeks wiki, however. It may be that you're right and the FAR didn't want Instrumentality to occur and merely mentioned it as a possibility, actually wanting species to evolve naturally rather than through evolution.
Post by Ryuku_Ryosake (58 posts) See mini bio Level 6
@OmegaChosen: Yeah this is the point were I differ largely from the norm. I typically like to think of things on the large scale. Also I would also like to point out that Second Impact was basically a smaller scale but pretty large Instrumentality itself. It wiped out and turned Antarctica into a sea of LCL.Then we had the Third Impact which did the same to Japan. Both Lilith and Adam seperately have the power to create a large anti-at field They could almost wipe out an entire planet of life themselves. Since the union between the two it made out to be an exponential increase into a God that is greater than the FAR themselves. It's just seems that the increase of continent sized to planet sized just doesn't seem to adequately fit. As Seele said "they shall judge as they have been judged" or something to that effect. Basically they want to be greater then FAR who created all life and the only I could see that they could trump that is to unite all life through death with Instrumentality.
I could see Rei just going easy on Shinji. Also sending out potential universe ending seeds into space would be a dumb idea. However sending the seeds out and actually allowing  two to land together by chance is pretty dumb.
Post by FoxxFireArt (2,654 posts) See mini bio Level 25
@Fabe said:
" You worked on After Impact:The audio manga, cool, I loved that too bad the plug got pulled just when things where getting really interesting. I did manage to find a copy of  the original fanfic so I was able to see how it all ended but I would still like to seen the audio manga finished . "
Oh, you heard of that project? Yeah, I worked on those three episodes. From what I was told by the writer. My episodes were the most popular. I was credited by my real name.
I was actually commissioned to work on another episode when the plug got pulled on the whole project.
Post by finchzero (10 posts) See mini bio Level 7
sooo many comments..im not sure if this is allready mentioned but in the last scene where asuka is back to life, has anyone noticed her eyes are now brown instead of blue (misato color eyes) and how shes wearing bandages that resemble the bandages rei wears on their first meeting.
Post by OmegaChosen (43 posts) See mini bio Level 6
@finchzero:  That's an old misconception. :/ It's pretty much been discredited. Due to the hue and the lighting of the scene(brown) it kind of looks like her eyes are brown. However, looking at the actual, unfiltered cel of the scene, viewable in this card, you can see that her eyes are still their normal blue, getting rid of the Misato part of the theory. Regarding the bandages, they're kinda similar to Rei's(because bandages don't usually look all that different) but the more obvious and accepted reason she has the bandages is that her arm and eye were badly damaged in the fight against the MP Evas. Rei was never part of Instrumentality if you think about, since she was busy being giant and stuff, so there wouldn't really be a chance for her to fuse with Asuka. She is present in the scene, sort of, just in the background as giant broken pieces. :P Also, the Rei part would be gone after Asuka takes off the bandages in a few seconds since her arm seems to have healed at least. In the end, it's Asuka through and through. Not that that helps any with Shinji's situation...
I can't really think of a reason why Asuka, Misato, and Lilith would fuse together in the first place though, especially Asuka. >_> She'd probably embrace oblivion before having to share soul real estate with another soul, let alone two and one of them just so happens to be the progenitor of their entire race. O_o
Post by ninjadude853 (464 posts) See mini bio Level 12
the watchmen of anime?
now i gotta watch this
Post by CharredKnight (74 posts) See mini bio Level 8

Personally I always despised Evangelion because of the hypocrisy involved.  Anno pretty much scoffs at the plot points of Super Robots, then proceeds to blow up Antartica then claims humanity simply rebuilds itself after 10 years with the only problem being that old tokyo is now underwater.  Compare the size of Antartica to the Chicxulub Crater which is 110 miles wide and caused the mass extinction at the end of the Mesozoic Era.   He then critcizes people for being hikkormori when his having a mental breakdown, and then immediatly after he begans to approve the stupidest products known to man just to sell garbage to the people he just criticized, and then proceeds to make things worse. 
Post by Gaff (213 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@Tom_Pinchuk:  Congratulations!! 
The beauty of Evangelion was, to me, always the multitude of interpretations it offered: was the entire series a public confessional of Hideaki Anno? Maybe. Did it say something about human nature? Maybe. Was it a sign of its times, did it capture the Zeitgeist of the early 90s, the high hopes of the fall of the Berlin Wall and the subsequent disappointment of Yugoslavia et al? Maybe.  
Whether or not there is a "canon" interpretation, there will always be something  you take away from it. An insight into Hideaki Anno, maybe. An insight into human nature, maybe. An insight into Evangelion's mythos, maybe. An thing that does stand out: the lack of an "official" interpretation, whatever you may or may not believe, fosters discussion. That is what distinguishes simple pictures from things like Van Gogh's sunflower field. 
Also, I'm probably way too drunk to discuss this: it's 4.30 AM here. I've been to bars, been dancing, drinking, up until I've finally come home. I am delighted that you've come to a conclusion, maybe uniquely your own, borrowed from others, but still uniquely your own. That, a property probably uniquely to art itself, in itself is a legacy worth cherishing.  
Also: I blame you for me putting in EoE at this time of night. Curses! 
Also (slightly sobering up while watching EoE): I wouldn't say that Misato wants Shinji, I would say that  Misato is expressing her emotions (caring, sympathy, love ,w/e), in the only way she knows: ie, yes, cleaning Shinji's tonsils and promising more. Damn it, I'm sounding more and more like a white knight going after Misato. 
Also (sobered up and halfway through): I remember my original criticism of EoE: It's way too bloody bleak.
Post by zaldar (1,366 posts) See mini bio Level 15
I have not watched the movie but I am going to be starting a mind fuck anime blog here on anime vice.  One of the first things I will be doing is talking about this as it is the prototypical mind fuck anime.
Post by Olivaw (30 posts) See mini bio Level 4
 I really cannot see comparing Evangelion to Watchmen in any way.
But that's me. I've never liked this show.
Post by slab64 (4 posts) See mini bio Level 2
As ReVolutionOfEvangelion's mother used to say, just a spoonful of being super fucking pedantic helps the medicine go down, the medicine in this case being, telling everyone their opinions about a cartoon are wrong. Enjoy your PhD in giant robotics.
Post by ReVolutionOfEvangelion (102 posts) See mini bio Level 3

1-  Is instrumentality a worldwide or universal phenomenon? Obviously it takes place on earth but is the resulting "supreme being" planetary or universal? What effect would said supreme being have on the the universe, other races within the universe, and the "First Ancestral Race"?

Planetary not universal.  Adam and Lilith had power over souls here because they helped spread life here; that and the Hybrid only lived for a short while....

2) Who exactly can come back in instrumentality? Everyone who has the will to come back? Does this include Ritsuko who died right before instrumentality, would this include kaji? (I would think it wouldn't, but we do see him in ep 26 so idk) What about the theory that Asuka and Shinji are the only ones who came back and must be the new "adam and eve" of mankind?  

Anyone who Rei/Adam/Lilith gathered up; time did get "fuzzy' so anyone who died NEAR to Third Impact gets the choice;  Kaji died too early, so no.  Everyone gets the choice, but like the Matrix bluepills...not everyone wants to make that choice.  
I personally like to think that Asuka and Shinji were only the first two, and that the others that want to come back are such a minority, that its basically just the rest of Class 2-A...leaving them to rebuild, Lord of the Flies style.... 

  4) Any thoughts on what Gendo's final words are to Ritsuko? 

While there is "an answer" we may never know it:  only Anno and the Japanese Ritsuko voice actress ever knew.  I suspect that its paralleling one of their earlier discussions....which actually arent' that many, on a personal level.   There's a point when Naoko calls him "Liar!" when he said he had no regrets, so the only, really bad and fan-based unsupported theory which I nonetheless lean towards, is that he said something like "I have no regrets"...but it functions on more than one level, you see; because at the same time, Ritsuko would realize he was just repeating a line he said to Naoko, and he used and abandoned Naoko, just as he used and discarded Ritsuko, etc.  Either way, it was something that made Ritsuko feel so utterly defeated that she didn't even bother to brace for Gendo's bullet, but just completely gave up. 

  6) What is the significance of Misato's cross being on the tree? 

I misunderstood that too the first time I saw it:  those are Japanese gravemarkers.  Basically, in the hours (indeterminate time) that Shinji was alone on the beach before Asuka showed up, he made makeshift gravemarkers for all of his friends from Nerv who were lost, particularly one for Misato, which he nailed her cross to. 

  9) What happens to the ppl who don't choose to come back, do they still exist in a lake of LCL somewhere, is there still some sentient instrumentality being somewhere?

Shinji stopped Instrumentality in such a way that Lilith's Black Moon containing all souls fell apart and souls merged back into the LCL.....so basically yes, people can choose to stay in a state which was like Instrumentality (what we briefly saw of it)....OR they can choose to leave it now, that's what Shinji did; gave people the option to leave. 

  7) Why exactly does Shinji choke Asuka, he just decided to choose life and values being with others, and the first thing he does is choke Asuka? (I don't buy hes testing to see if she's real lol) And we can all guess why Asuka says "how disgusting" lol, (cough hospital scene) but what about the old theory that her lines are really "I feel sick" as in morning sickness as in she's pregnant? (personally i don't buy into that one)  

I explained this is a post a bit further back:
This mistake many people make is thinking that Shinji wants to "harm" Asuka.
Shinji just went through Instrumentality, during which he choked Hallucination-Asuka and she did *nothing* to stop him...because it wasn't "real" and he could do anything he wanted.
So now that he's back in the real world...he's trying to prove that Instrumentalitiy is over, and this is, indeed, "real".
Reality is defined by the possibility of pain and failure.  So Shinji, the utter introvert, has now completed his character arc;  he's choking Asuka *to try to provoke her to try to attack him*, to prove that she's not just a product of his own mind.  So the boy that feared pain is now begging for it as proof that he's alive.
Meanwhile, Asuka's character arc was to finally let down her emotional boundaries:  she does "respond", but instead of using violence, she caresses his cheek lovingly and implores him to stop, showing that she really cared about him.  Shinji has learned to be a little tougher, and Asuka has learned to be a little gentler.  They've finally taken the first step towards rising above their psychological problems.  All's right with the world.   

3) How come when Rei appears at the end in her schoolgirl form, the corpse of "Giga Rei" is still there, i mean shouldn't her Lilith fused state just turn into her schoolgirl form, or was said Rei just formed out of the primordial LCL when she decided she wanted to exist with that form?

5) How come all throughout the series it seems Rei can teleport, disappearing and reappearing all the time. Especially at the end there, it seems she knows "instant transmission" or something. Does the Rei at the end of EoE still have some godly powers? 

Not Rei, but the Rei/Adam/Lilith Hybrid being, has become a Living God and can transcend time.  The Rei you see in episode 1 is actually the Hybrid "Waving hello" to Shinji, just as when it appears in the final scene of End of Eva (AFTER the Hybrid is dead) it is "waving goodbye")
This video my fansite made explains this:
Post by Gozertc (106 posts) See mini bio Level 7

Congratulations young one, you have passed your "Anime Experience" test and have earened your merit badge.  :)  
Seriously I tend not to think of anyone as a "serious" anime fan unless they've gone through the ups and downs of Eva.  I'm just fine with people not liking it (hell I don't like parts of it) but you can't say you've seen anime until you've seen Eva.  :)  
I know it's pretentious but it's not that far off.  I think everyone has an "it" show that signals to you that the person you're talking anime about is serious or at least on par enough for you to be worth the effort.  Or it's the show you try to spread around to "prove" something. 
Post by ReVolutionOfEvangelion (102 posts) See mini bio Level 3
@finchzero:   No, they are not Brown.  They are Blue.  I specifically talk about this in my convention panels, which I have recorded videos of on my fansite.  
As we say on REVA, "the Composite Asuka Theory is the ramblings of a madman"...there is no tolerance for it.
If you look at the actual animation cels, zoomed in...Asuka's eyes are never actually brown.  Prove that they're brown with screenshots.  They only look "dark" simply because the scene happens at night.
And in many ways it guts Asuka's character arc if her final, pivotal scene isn't really Asuka.
Post by ReVolutionOfEvangelion (102 posts) See mini bio Level 3
@Gaff:   No.  "the multitude of interpretations" was a living nightmare.  That is a bad thing.  It is a bad thing when no one can offer basic explanations about the series.
The goal of "the ReVolution of Evangelion" is to "actually find the answers that were always there", settle on explanations, and make them stick.  Obviously this is within reason; the goal is to at least get us to Lord of the Rings or Star Wars levels of comprehension; whereas now we have situations where you walk into an "Eva panel" and sit there for 20 minutes before you realize some guy was presenting his fan fiction as if it was the actual series.
Post by finchzero (10 posts) See mini bio Level 7

yeah man someone already said that to me earlier lol and what with the whole "no tollerence"  crap...lol anime nerds are funny when they say shit like this. You could just have some class and correct me like  OmegaChosen did.

Post by ReVolutionOfEvangelion (102 posts) See mini bio Level 3
@OmegaChosen:   Instrumentality was never part of the natural life process of humans or Angels; no, the First Ancestral Race never wanted it to happen, its the "Forbidden Union of Adam and Lilith" - the aliens even wrote that manual (which Seele calls "The Dead Sea Scrolls" ) to warn people about how to stop it
Post by ReVolutionOfEvangelion (102 posts) See mini bio Level 3
@finchzero:   Well I can't control things beyond my own fansite....but this is why we're providing actual "answers" when most basically tell you to trust your initial impressions/theories.
We're gonna go far, kid.
Post by OmegaChosen (43 posts) See mini bio Level 6
@ReVolutionOfEvangelion: I'm not ignorant of Evangelion lore. I merely had the two switched when I referred to Instrumentality instead of Third Impact. I know the difference between the two so don't assume I'm some uninformed fanboy.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,747 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@OmegaChosen: @ReVolutionOfEvangelion: @OmegaChosen: 
Thanks for the input on the questions, it helps. I can't wait to see how Rebuild handles the ending.
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