Golden Experience Requiem vs Stairway to Heaven

Topic started by phantomrant on Jan. 16, 2014. Last post by Kurohige 7 months, 2 weeks ago.
Post by phantomrant (1,335 posts) See mini bio Level 10

Been on my mind for some time, and I'd like other Jojo fans to help me out.

So it's often said that Giorno Giovanna somehow negated the universal reset that Pucci caused, thus protecting himself from his Stand. So, he was virtually unaffected by Stairway to Heaven. However, remember that GER's ability isn't specifically negating other abilities. Its actual ability is to "turn the opponent's actions or will to zero". In order for him to negate something, he has to do this to the opponent. We see GER doing this to Diavolo, hence why his King Crimson's time-skip/erasing got negated and reversed.

However, we know that Stairway to Heaven's universal acceleration/reset worked. And Pucci was alive throughout. Indeed, King Crimson and Stairway to Heaven's may involve time acceleration/skipping at an universal level, but Stairway to Heaven is still at a far higher level than King Crimson, plus hyped to be the ultimate Stand. Furthermore, while Diavolo was like within a few feet of GER/Giorno, Giorno was nowhere to be seen anywhere near Pucci or the Jojo cast, even though he was suggested to be somewhere in Florida.

If Pucci's ability worked, then that must mean that Giorno had no defense against Stairway to Heaven and was subject to the universal reset like everyone else.

This would mean that GER actually does have limited range in that any Stand user that is not within his sights simply cannot be affected to GER's "zero" ability.

-.-

Post by takashichea (11,899 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@phantomrant:

If this battle feat thread belongs to a franchise, it would be appropriate to post it there rather than general discussion. General Discussion is for topics that have no wiki pages, are anime and manga related, and cover multiple subjects that have wiki pages.

I'm guessing this is a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Thread? I'm not familiar with the series.

Post by SpeedForceSpider (4,899 posts) See mini bio Level 15
Not really the range should be unlimited. GER is pretty much a transformation, nothing suggests Giorno couldn't stop Stairway to Heaven is just pretty much something that happened while he was unaware of it. After the battle with Diavolo the arrow fell which indicated his stand reverted and he put it in his pocket. It's possible Giorno was in Florida but remember he inherited the Joestar spirit not Dio's so there was no need.
Post by phantomrant (1,335 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@SpeedForceSpider said:

Not really the range should be unlimited. GER is pretty much a transformation, nothing suggests Giorno couldn't stop Stairway to Heaven is just pretty much something that happened while he was unaware of it. After the battle with Diavolo the arrow fell which indicated his stand reverted and he put it in his pocket. It's possible Giorno was in Florida but remember he inherited the Joestar spirit not Dio's so there was no need.

> The range is indeed unlimited IN THAT GER can be at any distance away from the user. But its range of influence/attack is limited.

> Time was speeding up around him. Everybody in the world noticed it at some point. Although it wasn't a "direct attack".

> I think the Stand falling out is just because it's no longer needed to be in GER. It's not like it permanently fused with Golden Experience. We see the same arrow piercing Silver Chariot and the thing could still function without the arrow being in it. It fell out after Giorno de-activated his Stand so that others could use it now that GE has evolved into GER.

Given that GER is an independent Stand that goes out of its way to protect Giorno from all potential threats, the universal reset should have been negated, but it not doing so must mean that the range of its time loop ability is limited. If Giorno was close enough, then Pucci would be dead. If he isn't, then there is one in-verse way to beat Golden Experience Requiem.

Post by Kurohige (3,702 posts) See mini bio Level 19

Araki stated he was planning on having Girono appear in part 6 but changed his mind because that would ruin the ending he had planned. Going by that statement you can conclude that GER>Stairway to Heaven. Araki is known for changing his mind about things. Also yes, Girono has unlimited stats however Stand stats only go towards them physically, not their ability (Hence why Star Platinum has a C in range despite a universal time stop. The Hand and Cream also only have a B in destructive ability despite their Stands eliminating space.) However GER also has unlimited developmental potential so his range of ability may not be set in stone, he was already universal at the beginning odds are he is stronger now. I don't think Dio knew about requiems, only about the Stands in their regular form, he did not even know that the arrow could be used on someone who already had a Stand so he may have jumped the gun when he said it was the ultimate Stand.

GER is the ultimate counter. It takes the effect of the action but takes away the result making you spend and eternity in a loop of the same thing with different variations but never resulting in an end. Or basically the ultimate "No u" button. Also even if Puccie erased Girono I don't think GER needs a stand user to work, it's independent. There are other possibilities as to why Girono was erased with the others in part 6 though:

1. Stairway To Heaven's power is over Gold Experience Requiem's

2. Giorno hadn't activated the Stand at the time ( maybe he was sleeping and\or he needs to put the arrow into Gold Experience everytime to turn it into Requiem )

I am leaning more toward the 2nd option, but who knows.. And about Girono needing to use the arrow again, I think it's true; It's hinted that they need the Golden Arrow every time with Polnareffs experience with his Requiem. Silver Chariot first transformed a while before the events of the first chapter of Part 5, but in it's first appearance, was stuck in normal stand form until pierced with the arrow again. But since the OP's intentions are clear. In a fight between the prime versions of both. But in a straight up battle of ability and disregarding Araki's claim, It all comes down to who hits first, and GER has infinite speed off the bat while Puccie needs to accelerate

Post by phantomrant (1,335 posts) See mini bio Level 10

@Kurohige said:

I am leaning more toward the 2nd option, but who knows.. And about Girono needing to use the arrow again, I think it's true; It's hinted that they need the Golden Arrow every time with Polnareffs experience with his Requiem. Silver Chariot first transformed a while before the events of the first chapter of Part 5, but in it's first appearance, was stuck in normal stand form until pierced with the arrow again.

That's very inconvenient for Giorno.

Post by Kurohige (3,702 posts) See mini bio Level 19

@phantomrant: But it is not consistent with Silver Chariot Requiem since it remained in requiem even when the arrow came out. Because Araki would be the answer. He did say after part 6 he was trying to tone down the power of his Stands (He says before he makes Tusk Act 4 and D4C)...

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