How strong is Goku's punching power?

Topic started by TheLegendaryOne on Jan. 5, 2011. Last post by Dream 1 year, 11 months ago.
Post by StargunZX (476 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@hitsusatsu11 said:

" @StargunZX said:

" @hitsusatsu11 said:

" Ki beams are actually specifically described as "bullets" in the daizenshuu"

It does not change the fact that they often explode on contact with targets.

What I'm trying to point is that the explosion rather than the initial impact (when a projectile strikes its target) or the pressure exerted before the projectile's detonation is most certainly the main destructive force behind those ki beams.
How then do explain times when the beams don't explode, but rather annihilate the opponent? 
Like when Goku kills Tambourine, below: 
 
  
 
This is also corroborated by the fact that beings are able to fight back the attacks, as seen when Freeza singed his fingers blocking and pushing back the kamehameha.  Also with the Genki dama, and may other attacks, the opponent is simply vaporized with the attack itself.
Not all beams are meant to explode, surely the Z Senshi can control the effect of their attacks.

Furthermore, Vegeta's target was freeza, so according to you the ki ball should have exploded on contact.  It didn't freeza overpowered it.  "

Let's avoid no limits fallacy. ki beams will only collapse and detonate on contact with targets which are hard / durable enough to block them effectively. It's very likely that Vegeta's attack would have pierced a mile (likely much more) into the planet's crust before finally explode. And Freeza only touched the beam for a very brief moment, and he didn't kick it hard enough to make it detonate, but just to deflect it.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,726 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@StargunZX said:

Furthermore, Vegeta's target was freeza, so according to you the ki ball should have exploded on contact.  It didn't freeza overpowered it.  "

Let's avoid no limits fallacy. ki beams will only collapse and detonate on contact with targets which are hard / durable enough to block them effectively. It's very likely that Vegeta's attack would have pierced a mile (likely much more) into the planet's crust before finally explode. And Freeza only touched the beam for a very brief moment, and he didn't kick it hard enough to make it detonate, but just to deflect it. "
lets avoid a no limits fallacy? 
Ok, but then lets avoid making things up. 
You said ki blasts are like missiles that explode on contact,  Vegeta's target was Freeza.  
It didn't explode on Freeza
Freeza overpowered said attack, he kicked it away.   
 
Now if you over power something that has a certain force to it, say 30 KN, then what you used to overpower it, say a kick, must have greater than 30 KN of force behind it.  
This is obvious. 
Post by Boxer_Joe (305 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@hitsusatsu11 said:
" @StargunZX said:

Furthermore, Vegeta's target was freeza, so according to you the ki ball should have exploded on contact.  It didn't freeza overpowered it.  "

Let's avoid no limits fallacy. ki beams will only collapse and detonate on contact with targets which are hard / durable enough to block them effectively. It's very likely that Vegeta's attack would have pierced a mile (likely much more) into the planet's crust before finally explode. And Freeza only touched the beam for a very brief moment, and he didn't kick it hard enough to make it detonate, but just to deflect it. "
lets avoid a no limits fallacy? Ok, but then lets avoid making things up. You said ki blasts are like missiles that explode on contact,  Vegeta's target was Freeza.  It didn't explode on FreezaFreeza overpowered said attack, he kicked it away.    Now if you over power something that has a certain force to it, say 30 KN, then what you used to overpower it, say a kick, must have greater than 30 KN of force behind it.  This is obvious.  "

Where did you get this? I don't think he was making things up. Misunderstanding maybe.
Post by StargunZX (476 posts) See mini bio Level 10
@hitsusatsu11 said:

" lets avoid a no limits fallacy?

You said it: ''So according to you the ki ball should have exploded on contact.''

Not necessarily. Freeza touched that energy ball just for a brief moment, of course it wasn't enough to cause it to collapse and detonate.

Now if you over power something that has a certain force to it, say 30 KN, then what you used to overpower it, say a kick, must have greater than 30 KN of force behind it.  This is obvious.  "

Freeza overpowered the propulsive force acting upon the beam, nothing special about that. As we have already established, the energy released in the beam's explosion is the main destructive element of a ki beam.
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,726 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@StargunZX said:
" @hitsusatsu11 said:

" lets avoid a no limits fallacy?

You said it: ''So according to you the ki ball should have exploded on contact.''

Not necessarily. Freeza touched that energy ball just for a brief moment, of course it wasn't enough to cause it to collapse and detonate. 
This is false. 
Please prove this. 
 

Now if you over power something that has a certain force to it, say 30 KN, then what you used to overpower it, say a kick, must have greater than 30 KN of force behind it.  This is obvious.  "

Freeza overpowered the propulsive force acting upon the beam, nothing special about that. As we have already established, the energy released in the beam's explosion is the main destructive element of a ki beam. "
Again this is false. 
Please show statements or info from the daizenshuu to support this notion which you have "established" within your mind. 
Post by Baburu (29 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@hitsusatsu11:
Okay, so how is it false? Also what would Goku's punching power be?
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,726 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Baburu: Well, its "false" because buddy just decided all on his own that ki blasts only work like missiles, this nothing to confirm this. 
Post by SSJjanemba (2,176 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@Baburu: well goku lightly tapped chi chiand it sent here right through a tree, so i assume goku in ssj3 can punch a human right to the moon
Post by hitsusatsu11 (10,726 posts) See mini bio Level 20
@Baburu said:
 Also what would Goku's punching power be? "
I explained my theory in my first post.
Post by TheLegendaryOne (879 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@hitsusatsu11 said:
" @Baburu: Well, its "false" because buddy just decided all on his own that ki blasts only work like missiles, this nothing to confirm this.  "
I have seen a lot of feats that point to that they work like bullets, in the sense that they pierce through objects. They have been fired at mountains before, and they pierce through them and explode on the other side a few miles away from the mountain. 
 
Don't get me wrong. There are times that they do explode on contact, which could give people the idea that they could work like missiles, but I think they are more like bullets. Especially in Saiyan Saga after the confrontation between Goku's Kamehameha and Vegeta's Galick Gun. When Goku won the battle, the Kamehameha took Vegeta for a ride through space. It didn't explode upon impact. 
 
Now, for instances that ki works like missiles, we have the Piccolo moon busting feat. It did not pierce through the moon. It exploded upon impact. Same thing with Roshi when he destroyed the moon. They both exploded upon impact.
Post by TheLegendaryOne (879 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@SSJjanemba said:
" @Baburu: well goku lightly tapped chi chiand it sent here right through a tree, so i assume goku in ssj3 can punch a human right to the moon "
That is a weak analogy. Chi Chi is much weaker than Goku.
Post by Baburu (29 posts) See mini bio Level 9
@hitsusatsu11 said:
" @Baburu: Well, its "false" because buddy just decided all on his own that ki blasts only work like missiles, this nothing to confirm this.  "
Well I am just saying because he might know something we don't.
@hitsusatsu11 said:
" @Baburu said:
 Also what would Goku's punching power be? "
I explained my theory in my first post. "

I saw that, I'm asking for a clear number or a clear damage ratio. (A billion tons, ect)
Post by Jinbeifan1 (3,220 posts) See mini bio Level 14
even though power wise the dbz characters could measure up to someone like thor (not totally but close)they are not the physically strongest they are close to hulk level but not as strong
Post by TheLegendaryOne (879 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@Jinbeifan1 said:
" even though power wise the dbz characters could measure up to someone like thor (not totally but close)they are not the physically strongest they are close to hulk level but not as strong "
Nothing suggests Goku is above a mountain buster physically. Even in his Super Saiyan form and beyond, he is nothing more than a mountain buster physically. A larger result is produced only when Goku fires energy attacks. That is it.
Post by Jinbeifan1 (3,220 posts) See mini bio Level 14
@TheLegendaryOne: exactly he has not done so nor has he hit anyone into space that would at least put him in a bigger level
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7

@TheLegendaryOne: 
    
 
Dude, what are you talking about, if you don't believe goku can match Arale there is something wrong with you, in fact goku ended up training with the motivation to become stronger than her.

 

    
If you think goku did not match Arale's strength in dragonball, than you must conceed also that goku eventually became stronger than Broly. Goku defeated Broly as a ssj2. 
 
Thus there is evidence you just don't want to see it.

Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@sickVisionz said:
"When someone standing on Earth get's hit with a galaxy busting punch, the shockwaves alone should cause something on the level of an extinction level event.  Someone getting thrown or kicked to the ground by galaxy busting power should make a crater the size of the entire western hemisphere. "


Yeah thats true, but I guess that is what happens in fictional things. Nothing.

Fiction is not subject to the laws of physics hence ftl being ordinary.

Post by Kurohige (3,681 posts) See mini bio Level 19
@soldier said:
"

@TheLegendaryOne: 
    
 
Dude, what are you talking about, if you don't believe goku can match Arale there is something wrong with you, in fact goku ended up training with the motivation to become stronger than her.

 

    
If you think goku did not match Arale's strength in dragonball, than you must conceed also that goku eventually became stronger than Broly. Goku defeated Broly as a ssj2. 
 
Thus there is evidence you just don't want to see it.

"

Dude much respect, great post. Haven't seen you much around here.
Post by TheLegendaryOne (879 posts) See mini bio Level 11
@soldier said:
"

@TheLegendaryOne: 
    
 
Dude, what are you talking about, if you don't believe goku can match Arale there is something wrong with you, in fact goku ended up training with the motivation to become stronger than her.

 

    
If you think goku did not match Arale's strength in dragonball, than you must conceed also that goku eventually became stronger than Broly. Goku defeated Broly as a ssj2. 
 
Thus there is evidence you just don't want to see it.

"
I can't begin to describe how fanboy this comment is.... 
 
Please show me Arale destroying a planet in one punch. Same thing with Broly. 
 
Oh wait, that's right. They haven't. It's just hyperbole statements. The only time Broly has ever reached anything on a planetary level was via energy blast. 
 
Let's revisit that, shall we? 
 
  
   
The evidence is beginning to stack up against you. 
 
Let's revisit another reason why I don't believe anything that is said there that they can destroy a planet with their fists. 
 
Let's take this interview with Akira Toriyama.  
 
Now, what really stands out to me is this question right here and how Toriyama answered..... 
 
Q: What is Majin Buu's power level? 

A; The frightening thing about Majin Buu is his unknown, unfathomable power. Whether it's actually not that much, or whether it's really stupendous, majin Buu himself probably doesn't know the answer. 
    
 
Now, how can the creator of his own anime not know the power level of his own creation? Hm..... sounds strange to me, correct? So, if Toriyama doesn't know what Majin Buu's power level is, perhaps he doesn't even know what is true in his Daizenshuu. I mean, it must be true, considering the fact that there are so many inconsistencies in Dragon Ball Z, and there is nothing in the known universe hinting Broly to being physically capable to bust anything more than a mountain. I mean, you can go to what is written and try to prove it that way, but what is shown proves otherwise. 
 
Like this instance for example.... 
 

Here we have Piccolo calling both Goku and Frieza "gods" 
Here we have Piccolo calling both Goku and Frieza "gods" 
 
Now, I was under the impression that gods are omnipotent and they cannot die. So, if Goku and Frieza are truly both gods....... how is it that they are both not omnipotent and they have both died....... seems inconsistent yet again with what is said compared to what is shown...... 
 
My friend, you are blind to the evidence and are solely driven by your own fanboy wishes. You wish that Goku was as physically strong as you believe him to be, but the fact of the matter is, Goku is nothing more than a mountain buster physically. The evidence proves this. 
 
Oh, and just to throw a little more wood onto the fire and make it burn more, let's take this nicely made AMV of Broly. I want you to show me once, just once, that's all I need to see, where Broly destroys any planet with his strength alone. Or better yet, show me anything that hints to Broly being physically stronger than just a mountain buster. That is all I need to see. Just one instance. 
 
  
Post by soldier (495 posts) See mini bio Level 7
@TheLegendaryOne said:
" @soldier said:
"

@TheLegendaryOne: 
    
 
Dude, what are you talking about, if you don't believe goku can match Arale there is something wrong with you, in fact goku ended up training with the motivation to become stronger than her.

 

    
If you think goku did not match Arale's strength in dragonball, than you must conceed also that goku eventually became stronger than Broly. Goku defeated Broly as a ssj2. 
 
Thus there is evidence you just don't want to see it.

"
I can't begin to describe how fanboy this comment is.... 
 
Please show me Arale destroying a planet in one punch. Same thing with Broly. 
 
Oh wait, that's right. They haven't. It's just hyperbole statements. The only time Broly has ever reached anything on a planetary level was via energy blast. 
 
Let's revisit that, shall we? 
 
  
   
The evidence is beginning to stack up against you. 
 
Let's revisit another reason why I don't believe anything that is said there that they can destroy a planet with their fists. 
 
Let's take this interview with Akira Toriyama.  
 
Now, what really stands out to me is this question right here and how Toriyama answered..... 
 
Q: What is Majin Buu's power level? 

A; The frightening thing about Majin Buu is his unknown, unfathomable power. Whether it's actually not that much, or whether it's really stupendous, majin Buu himself probably doesn't know the answer. 
    
 
Now, how can the creator of his own anime not know the power level of his own creation? Hm..... sounds strange to me, correct? So, if Toriyama doesn't know what Majin Buu's power level is, perhaps he doesn't even know what is true in his Daizenshuu. I mean, it must be true, considering the fact that there are so many inconsistencies in Dragon Ball Z, and there is nothing in the known universe hinting Broly to being physically capable to bust anything more than a mountain. I mean, you can go to what is written and try to prove it that way, but what is shown proves otherwise. 
 
Like this instance for example.... 
 

Here we have Piccolo calling both Goku and Frieza "gods"
Here we have Piccolo calling both Goku and Frieza "gods"
 
Now, I was under the impression that gods are omnipotent and they cannot die. So, if Goku and Frieza are truly both gods....... how is it that they are both not omnipotent and they have both died....... seems inconsistent yet again with what is said compared to what is shown...... 
 
My friend, you are blind to the evidence and are solely driven by your own fanboy wishes. You wish that Goku was as physically strong as you believe him to be, but the fact of the matter is, Goku is nothing more than a mountain buster physically. The evidence proves this. 
 
Oh, and just to throw a little more wood onto the fire and make it burn more, let's take this nicely made AMV of Broly. I want you to show me once, just once, that's all I need to see, where Broly destroys any planet with his strength alone. Or better yet, show me anything that hints to Broly being physically stronger than just a mountain buster. That is all I need to see. Just one instance. 
 
  
"


There are so many flaws to your reply that it is not funny.

 

Firstly, just because Akira Toriyama decides to leave something a mystery you claim that he does not know his own creation, and try to discount official statements. Akira knows whats true you are being silly, typical straw man fallacy and not even worth debating. 
 
one blow and one blast is different, a blow implies a physical assault. Thus it is not talking about planet busting blasts. 
Moreover, the difference is that when goku and frieza were said to be LIKE A GOD, it is not saying that they are one. 
 
As for Arale: 
 
 The above is not the earth splitting scan but it gives you an idea of a bit of her strength.
Also are your really going to debate an official source. If you are, I am not going to bother, talking nonsense about hyperbole when it is an official document of their strengths. 
 
Peace.

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