Why was Tenchi Muyo! so weird?

Topic started by ronki23 on Nov. 29, 2013. Last post by LHWKnight 10 months ago.
Post by ronki23 (118 posts) See mini bio Level 8

I watched all of the Tenchi Muyo!, Tenchi Universe and Tenchi in Tokyo series after 11 years earlier this year. I also watched the movies: Daughter of Darkness and Tenchi in Love 1 & 2.

I'm assuming this is one of the few times anime comes before manga

Tenchi Muyo became weird and boring after the Kagato saga:

1. They had an episode about a baby

2. They had an episode about Ryo Ohki getting lost in the woods

3. They had an episode or 2 about a random Android sent to kill Tenchi and instead falls for Tenchi. Somehow this Android is more powerful than Ryoko (even though Ryoko has the power of the gems of Washu which means she can destroy a planet with all 3). I guess Android 17/18> Vegeta but still, it doesn't make sense in Muyo because Washu is still more powerful than the Android

4. They had a huge episode gap (several years) after 'Here comes Jurai' and it wasn't anything to do with Jurai

5. Tenchi's Sister is in her 80s which means their Dad's in his 200s. Tenchi's Maternal side is Jurain, not the paternal side. If it was true wouldn't he all be like 'wtf,my Dad's over 200 years old'. Plus it means the Dad and Mom are related

6. Washu can already beat everyone

I still don't understand why there is a counter-actor and why it is Aeyeka/Sasami's Mom. There is no explanation for it at all.

Post by Destinyheroknight (10,386 posts) See mini bio Level 21

@ronki23:

Tenchi Muyo! was already a weird show, before hand

1. The episode was about Washu character and back story

2. A lot of anime do that

3. It wasn't really random, the episode was showing there more to Washu and the part with Zero was Ryoko was drunk and caught off guard

4. They run out of money

5. Yeah, this show is full of incest

6. Yes and no, she give up her powers to live as a mortal

Post by takashichea (14,364 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

I love Tenchi Muyo. I don't understand Tenchi when I was a middle schooler. Watching the show on Toonami and then watching it back in college, I realized there was a lot of stuff that went under the radar like the hot springs scene. Tenchi's grandpa was an old pervert.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,231 posts) See mini bio Level 12

I enjoyed them episodes. I love the Tenchi Muyo series so I'm gonna be biased towards it. That baby episode was a great episode. You got an insight to Washu. Something we never really got from any other episode. My friend's favourite episode was that one because he liked Washu.

Ryo Ohki getting lost in the woods, although it seemed to be about her, it was more about Ryoko. She unlocked feelings she had. Motherhood being one of them.

Washu is indeed more powerful than the androids being a chousin herself. But she would have to leave that form to gain her abilities. Like in OVA 3. To stop Z. Washu states that the android was apart of Ryoko to begin with, but in her normal form she couldn't control them. However, I believe she means without overruling them. If you believe in God, kind of like him not getting in the way of freewill. At least my opinion.

The gap in years is because of story, there lack of. Since they never had a manga to follow up on, it was all from Masaki Kajishima.

They have are an advanced alien race, birthed from the chousin [God-like] Tsunami. They have many abilities, one is the ability to change their form I guess.

Washu is on par with Tsunami and Tokimi. And under Kami Tenchi.

If you want a series similar to it, with less convoluted stuff. Try Tenchi Muyo: War on Geminar. The story follows Tenchi's half-brother, Kenshi.

Post by takashichea (14,364 posts) See mini bio Level 25
Moderator

@Supreme Marvel:

I still haven't got around watching the Geminar series. It's weird watching a Tenchi show without Ayaka and Ryuko.

Post by Supreme Marvel (5,231 posts) See mini bio Level 12

@takashichea: I felt the same way. I love Ryoko, so I was like this is gonna be shit. However it was changed in the first episode. I loved the animation quality. Kenshi was amazing. The show had subtle humour which I like. Loads of the females were cool. Although none of them are close to Ryoko in favourites.

Post by Dream (8,284 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

@ronki23: All the examples you pointed out were relevant in terms of fleshing out characters or advancing the plot to the series. Since you seem fairly new to understanding the franchise, I'll provide answers to what you think are things that don't make sense:

1. They had an episode about a baby

Said episode was relevant because it revealed a little more about Washu's past (being a mother herself and losing her kid millenia earlier due to differences in social status between her and the father) with the kid that Tenchi and the gals care for being the trigger that reveals this aspect to her character.

2. They had an episode about Ryo Ohki getting lost in the woods

The episode was there to provide depth into Ryo-ohki's character about her own feelings for Tenchi and gaining a new ability to assume a humanoid form.

3. They had an episode or 2 about a random Android sent to kill Tenchi and instead falls for Tenchi. Somehow this Android is more powerful than Ryoko (even though Ryoko has the power of the gems of Washu which means she can destroy a planet with all 3). I guess Android 17/18> Vegeta but still, it doesn't make sense in Muyo because Washu is still more powerful than the Android

Thanks to Tokimi's power (Tokimi being a fellow Choushin like Washu), Zero (the mentioned android) was capable of copying the appearance, knowledge, emotions and abilities of whomever she came into contact with. This was why she was capable of dispatching Ryoko despite the former space pirate having one of Washu's gems. There were, however, a couple issues that Zero came across though upon copying Ryoko. First, the power of Washu's gems couldn't be duplicated as the attempt made by Zero to make a copy failed and she winded up having to steal Ryoko's gem for herself in order to complete her role of being Ryoko. Second, copying Ryoko's feelings meant that Zero gained the space pirate's feelings for Tenchi which she wasn't capable of controlling since she wasn't accustomed to them, which affected her mission to capture Washu for Dr. Clay.

4. They had a huge episode gap (several years) after 'Here comes Jurai' and it wasn't anything to do with Jurai

Actually, the third OVA took place a short time after the events of Here Comes Jurai as Tenchi's school was still in ruins from Ryoko's "playful" attack on Tenchi at the start of the series.

5. Tenchi's Sister is in her 80s which means their Dad's in his 200s. Tenchi's Maternal side is Jurain, not the paternal side. If it was true wouldn't he all be like 'wtf,my Dad's over 200 years old'. Plus it means the Dad and Mom are related

Both Tenchi's mother (Kiyone) and father (Nobayuki) have Juraian blood and are distant relatives. Also, incest is quite common in marital arrangements made by the Jurai Royal Family. You might recall an arranged marriage was attempted between Yosho (Tenchi's grandpa) and Ayeka when they still lived on Jurai and both were half-siblings. Plus regardless of whomever Tenchi chooses in the OVA continuity, he's gonna have some sort of familial tie to each of the girls as Sasami's assimilation with Tsunami makes it so Washu, Ryoko and Mihoshi are distant relatives of his. But that's one can of worms I don't feel like elaborating too much on right now since I only want to get the rest of your stuff addressed.

6. Washu can already beat everyone

Pretty much, except for her sisters, the Counter-Actor and Tenchi.

I still don't understand why there is a counter-actor and why it is Aeyeka/Sasami's Mom. There is no explanation for it at all.

The Counteractor exists as a counterbalance to the power of the Choushin on lower dimensions (in this case, our universe) whom Z managed to retrieve from time traveling thousands of years in the future. The OVA doesn't really reveal much of how Misaki became the Counteractor since the show's developers essentially rushed through the plot in the third OVA's final episode. But according to the show's creator Masaki Kajishima, there was a major event in the future thousands of years from now that would result in the deaths of Funaho and Azusa, causing the Empress of Jurai to go mad from the event and trigger a large surge of power that threatened the populace of Jurai. This lead the new Emperor of Jurai to demand the planet's military to kill the former empress with the ensuing attack wiping out much of her body and leading whatever was destroyed to regenerate into the black and red quasi-matter that makes up her body for the third OVA's final episode.

Post by ronki23 (118 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream:But Kami Tenchi was already more powerful than the Chousin; not to mention there then should be 3 counter actors for 3 chousin. If the anime came first, why is this occurrence explained in the manga?

I still don't fully remember why the Chousin got together.

But there were still several random episodes in Tenchi Muyo, another being Mihoshi's brother or the last one where they all went back in time in the final episode and found the female Kagato. That and the sudden appearance of Tenchi's grandmother (which made no sense) or his new girl.

R.e. Ryo Ohki, she's a freaking spaceship that could destroy planets when at full power. She's flown through space and she gets lost in the woods ¬_¬

Post by ronki23 (118 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Destinyheroknight said:

@ronki23:

Tenchi Muyo! was already a weird show, before hand

1. The episode was about Washu character and back story

2. A lot of anime do that

3. It wasn't really random, the episode was showing there more to Washu and the part with Zero was Ryoko was drunk and caught off guard

4. They run out of money

5. Yeah, this show is full of incest

6. Yes and no, she give up her powers to live as a mortal

They had Universe, In Tokyo, and the movies too.

I actually enjoyed Universe more.

Post by Dream (8,284 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

@ronki23:

not to mention there then should be 3 counter actors for 3 chousin.

Don't really get what has you assuming this. Misaki as the Counteractor was capable of negating the powers of all three Choushin and almost choked Tokimi to death if not for Kami Tenchi's intervention.

If the anime came first, why is this occurrence explained in the manga?

Manga adaptations of the series like No Need for Tenchi and New Tenchi Muyo are not canon to the OVA continuity since they weren't made or involved work from Tenchi creator Masaki Kajishima. Extra stuff that Kajishima reveals not covered in anime adaptations of the franchise are covered in light novels, doujin, guidebooks and interviews that were never released here in the states.

another being Mihoshi's brother

Watch Tenchi Muyo GXP. The series came out before the third OVA series did in Japan, was done before the OVAs were ever complete and introduced more members of Mihoshi's family and Jurai's Royal Family.

the last one where they all went back in time in the final episode and found the female Kagato.

Instances of time traveling were either the result of Tenchi not having control of his powers at that point or came from the Choushin undoing any damage to our universe that resulted from either Z or the clash between Tokimi and Tsunami.

The female Kagato would only make sense if one had read the novel covering Washu's origins (which sadly have never received an official release here in the states) and is fairly complicated to explain. Kagato was actually a creation of Washu that was created as an assistant to replace Naja Akara, a close friend and confidante of Washu's who mysteriously vanished during a space pirate attack and was assumed dead. Being cloned from Naja's DNA, Kagato was originally female. However, Washu was unaware of Kagato's nefarious nature at the time, whom hated the female body they had and discarded the female part of himself to take on a male form. The female half of Kagato was left abandoned until she was discovered by Noike's mother. At that time, the woman was obsessed with wanting to have a relationship that no one would get in the way with. She had Dr. Clay's help to split the female Kagato into two halves, one that was regressed into a baby that would become Noike and the other being the personality that made up much of the female Kagato's psyche that would appear in an astral form. The astral form was sealed deep within the cells of Noike and Washu was able to pick up on Clay's involvement in Noike's birth because of the doctor's habit of leaving his seal on anything he created. Washu seen Clay's logo within Noike's eyes when she discovered that Z was using Noike's body to spy on Tenchi's activity and noticed Clay's logo throughout all of Noike's cells where the astral form of female Kagato had been sealed.

That and the sudden appearance of Tenchi's grandmother (which made no sense) or his new girl.

Again, Tenchi Muyo GXP had Tenchi's grandma and Noike appear in it before they made appearances in the third OVA series. The only confusion that would come up would be the fact that GXP takes places two years after the events of the third OVA and would mention events that had already passed by that point.

Post by ronki23 (118 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream: but WHY is there only 1 counter actor for 3 Chousin and WHY Misaki?

I still don't fully understand why, if the anime came first, there needed to be novels,etc. and more importantly, why they weren't released as it'd confuse us Western viewers (like it has).

Never seen GXP or Geminar,etc. It says Tenchi Muyo but no Tenchi in it! Plus it was abrupt the way in which they ended Muyo after Royal Family and put this random stuff in

Post by Dream (8,284 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

@ronki23:

but WHY is there only 1 counter actor for 3 Chousin and WHY Misaki?

Hints were dropped as early as Here Comes Jurai that Misaki wasn't an ordinary Juraian as she could casually pummel Ryoko and negate her power, as the space pirate would have otherwise been able to shrug off the damage that she received from other Juraians like Ayeka and her log guardians. Masaki Kajishima also dropped a hint in one of his guidebooks alluding to the possibility that "the universe would know the true terror of Misaki." He intended for her to play a vital role for later installments in his franchise and her role in the third OVA was what it led up to.

I still don't fully understand why, if the anime came first, there needed to be novels,etc. and more importantly, why they weren't released as it'd confuse us Western viewers (like it has).

The extra stuff created by Kajishima allowed more light to be shed on elements of the OVA continuity that there wasn't time to cover properly in anime form. Much of the extra fan material couldn't be licensed since it was printed material that mostly involved Kajishima's input and was out of the hands of any anime developers involved in the creation of the franchise. The only printed material that got some sort of exposure in the West was the 101 Secrets of Tenchi Muyo guidebook that had some of its questions translated and released in a DVD set of the series released over a decade ago. Because of how old the content is, it is highly doubtful that there will ever be an American release of the stuff.

Never seen GXP or Geminar,etc. It says Tenchi Muyo but no Tenchi in it! Plus it was abrupt the way in which they ended Muyo after Royal Family and put this random stuff in

Tenchi and the girls make an appearance in one of the later episodes of GXP when the title's main lead, Seina, needed Washu's help to learn more about his new spaceship, Fuku, which she created. While Tenchi isn't the main lead of GXP or Geminar, they are still part of the OVA continuity since they involve Tenchi and other supporting characters of the series in some form (for instance, Geminar lead Kenshi is the half-brother of Tenchi). And again, the mentioned stuff with the Jurai Royal Family makes more sense if you seen earlier titles in the franchise and do research on whatever doesn't get covered in the anime as there are several sites online I usually visit that have summaries on all the major stuff in Kajishima's novels, interviews and doujin that weren't properly addressed in anime form.

And just so you don't go assuming things, Tenchi Universe, Tokyo and the trilogy of movies made in the 1990s aren't part of the OVA continuity since they significantly alter elements and back story of the characters compared to the OVAs, GXP and Geminar.

Post by ronki23 (118 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream said:

@ronki23:

but WHY is there only 1 counter actor for 3 Chousin and WHY Misaki?

Hints were dropped as early as Here Comes Jurai that Misaki wasn't an ordinary Juraian as she could casually pummel Ryoko and negate her power, as the space pirate would have otherwise been able to shrug off the damage that she received from other Juraians like Ayeka and her log guardians. Masaki Kajishima also dropped a hint in one of his guidebooks alluding to the possibility that "the universe would know the true terror of Misaki." He intended for her to play a vital role for later installments in his franchise and her role in the third OVA was what it led up to.

I still don't fully understand why, if the anime came first, there needed to be novels,etc. and more importantly, why they weren't released as it'd confuse us Western viewers (like it has).

The extra stuff created by Kajishima allowed more light to be shed on elements of the OVA continuity that there wasn't time to cover properly in anime form. Much of the extra fan material couldn't be licensed since it was printed material that mostly involved Kajishima's input and was out of the hands of any anime developers involved in the creation of the franchise. The only printed material that got some sort of exposure in the West was the 101 Secrets of Tenchi Muyo guidebook that had some of its questions translated and released in a DVD set of the series released over a decade ago. Because of how old the content is, it is highly doubtful that there will ever be an American release of the stuff.

Never seen GXP or Geminar,etc. It says Tenchi Muyo but no Tenchi in it! Plus it was abrupt the way in which they ended Muyo after Royal Family and put this random stuff in

Tenchi and the girls make an appearance in one of the later episodes of GXP when the title's main lead, Seina, needed Washu's help to learn more about his new spaceship, Fuku, which she created. While Tenchi isn't the main lead of GXP or Geminar, they are still part of the OVA continuity since they involve Tenchi and other supporting characters of the series in some form (for instance, Geminar lead Kenshi is the half-brother of Tenchi). And again, the mentioned stuff with the Jurai Royal Family makes more sense if you seen earlier titles in the franchise and do research on whatever doesn't get covered in the anime as there are several sites online I usually visit that have summaries on all the major stuff in Kajishima's novels, interviews and doujin that weren't properly addressed in anime form.

And just so you don't go assuming things, Tenchi Universe, Tokyo and the trilogy of movies made in the 1990s aren't part of the OVA continuity since they significantly alter elements and back story of the characters compared to the OVAs, GXP and Geminar.

But we see Launch,Chi Chi or Bulma slap Master Roshi,Yajirobe,Yamcha or Krillin and they aren't as powerful so I never took that scene seriously. Not to mention Aeyeka and her guardians could take on Ryoko so it was natural for her mom to be able to do so.

Which also brings me on to Aeyeka and her guardians; they can beat Ryoko teaming up, and maybe even Aeyeka alone can beat Ryoko as we regularly see them literally wrestle to get Tenchi's attention. But Zero Ryoko is somehow more powerful even though she doesn't have a gem; Zero Ryoko beat the logs single handedly

Post by Dream (8,284 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

@ronki23:

But we see Launch,Chi Chi or Bulma slap Master Roshi,Yajirobe,Yamcha or Krillin and they aren't as powerful so I never took that scene seriously. Not to mention Aeyeka and her guardians could take on Ryoko so it was natural for her mom to be able to do so.

Ryoko was never serious in any spars she had with Ayeka as she could easily dispatch the girl since Washu's gems give Ryoko greater power than the Juraian princess nor her guardians could muster. The best they could hope to accomplish was to restrain and capture the space pirate if she had only one of her gems, though even that is of no guarantee depending on Ryoko's mood.

Which also brings me on to Aeyeka and her guardians; they can beat Ryoko teaming up, and maybe even Aeyeka alone can beat Ryoko as we regularly see them literally wrestle to get Tenchi's attention. But Zero Ryoko is somehow more powerful even though she doesn't have a gem; Zero Ryoko beat the logs single handedly

Again, Ayeka and her guardians (even together) wouldn't be capable of defeating Ryoko. Zero could compete with Ryoko on equal grounds because both of them drew their powers and abilities from a different Choushin (Ryoko from Washu, Zero from Tokimi).

Post by ronki23 (118 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream said:

@ronki23:

But we see Launch,Chi Chi or Bulma slap Master Roshi,Yajirobe,Yamcha or Krillin and they aren't as powerful so I never took that scene seriously. Not to mention Aeyeka and her guardians could take on Ryoko so it was natural for her mom to be able to do so.

Ryoko was never serious in any spars she had with Ayeka as she could easily dispatch the girl since Washu's gems give Ryoko greater power than the Juraian princess nor her guardians could muster. The best they could hope to accomplish was to restrain and capture the space pirate if she had only one of her gems, though even that is of no guarantee depending on Ryoko's mood.

Which also brings me on to Aeyeka and her guardians; they can beat Ryoko teaming up, and maybe even Aeyeka alone can beat Ryoko as we regularly see them literally wrestle to get Tenchi's attention. But Zero Ryoko is somehow more powerful even though she doesn't have a gem; Zero Ryoko beat the logs single handedly

Again, Ayeka and her guardians (even together) wouldn't be capable of defeating Ryoko. Zero could compete with Ryoko on equal grounds because both of them drew their powers and abilities from a different Choushin (Ryoko from Washu, Zero from Tokimi).

Firstly,the videos show Ayeka could 'beat' Ryoko; though it seems she needs her guardians. Sorry for the inconvenience. Yet Zero beat Ryoko and Zero Ryoko beat the Guardians. Ayeka is quite prepared to stand up to Ryoko and she herself is sister of a Goddess (and technically Ryoko's aunt).

We didn't know at the time that Zero was a 'divine' cyborg, she was just created by the Doctor. Plus Ryoko had a 3rd of Washu's power I believe. Again i'm using Dragonball analogies here but Androids 17 and 18 were artificial and stronger than the 'Gods' like the Kais because we realise the Kais aren't that important (King Kai himself says Nappa is more powerful here). The Androids could beat Super Saiyans because Super Saiyans were merely charged up aliens who Dr Gero factored in. Zero was just some random cyborg with robotic thoughts (at least the Androids were humanoid).

I'm still confused why they chose Misaki to be the counter actor and why there is one counter actor for 3 Goddesses.

Post by ronki23 (118 posts) See mini bio Level 8

Oh yeah; the only 2 villains we had were Kagato and Z. Other than that the episodes went by slowly.

Universe was better (even Kagato), as was in Tokyo and the movies

Post by Dream (8,284 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

@ronki23: Dr. Clay and the Counteractor were also villains in the OVAs. As for the spinoff TV anime, Universe is decent, but Tokyo is considered to be one of the worst offerings in the Tenchi Muyo franchise for various reasons, much of which have to do with how it made many of the characters in Tenchi's harem obnoxious and unlikeable in many moments.

Post by ronki23 (118 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream:Dr Clay could've been killed by Washu easily (so is not to be taken seriously) and Counteractor made no sense (particularly as it was in Japanese and because they didn't tell us WHY they chose to make Misaki like this).

If you could address my above post it'd be great

Post by Dream (8,284 posts) See mini bio Level 21
Moderator

@ronki23: The only thing mentioned about why Misaki is the Counteractor is that her purpose of existence is being a counterforce to the Choushin's power. You know about yin and yang? If there is something that exists, there is an opposing force to it. Whereas the Choushin seek to create, the Counteractor seeks to destroy all that exists as she serves as a natural opposite to the Choushin. It's about the best thing I can tell you for now since there hasn't been a new title in the Tenchi franchise within the past few years.

As for your other questions...

Firstly,the videos show Ayeka could 'beat' Ryoko

In the OVA episode you have, Ryoko wasn't taking Ayeka seriously at all throughout their fight, which was her shortcoming in getting captured by Ayeka's guardians. I wouldn't necessarily count it as Ayeka beating Ryoko as she would later have Ryo-ohki easily ensnare Ayeka's ship and lead both to crash land to Earth. Also consider their fighting performances against Kagato later on. When Ayeka tried to take on Kagato, she was easily dispatched after just one attack while Ryoko continued to push on despite the pummeling she took from him.

The sample you have from Tenchi Universe isn't a good one to use because Ryoko is much weaker in the Universe and Tokyo anime as she lacks a number of the potent abilities she had from the OVAs like regeneration, summoning demons, breathing in space and no longer having Washu's gems in her possession.

The rest of your arguments seem more like you are nitpicking over why you don't know of certain things to the series and thinking decisions in the storytelling don't make sense since you don't get access to all the information that the Japanese could get direct access to.

Post by ronki23 (118 posts) See mini bio Level 8

@Dream:I mean the Counteractor theory makes no sense. Surely there should be 3 for 3. They should've used the Devil Princess and Yosho's Mother. But they only used Misaki for some strange reason (the person least likely to behave like so). Plus it makes no sense why they didn't explain it in the anime for Western audiences

Ayeka's ship also chased Ryo Ohki and caught her. That and she did a suicide crash landing into the Earth.

Plus overall, why on Earth did they make it so it was so,so different in each continuity? It's called Tenchi Muyo yet GXP and Geminar don't have him in it. Sure Dragonball had Mystical Adventure and Path to Power but they were movies after all.

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